[SI] De'Aaron Fox and the Kings Are Building for the Future

V

vladtheimpaler

G-League
#61
#61
Capt. Factorial said:
OK, this entire post is basically ethnonationalist garbage, making weak arguments (basically no more than insinuations) in furtherance of centuries-old ethnic squabbles on the Balkan peninsula. This is a Sacramento Kings website. Despite our franchise having two notable former Serbian players/executives in Divac and Stojakovic the Kings and Kings fans in general have no dog in this pathetic, overlong fight. Please don't bring your partisan garbage and your conspiracy theories over the tragic auto accident that killed Petrovic here. (What, do you think those dastardly Serbs engineered an accident on the Autobahn in Germany to kill a basketball player? My God.)

It doesn't even deserve to be left up on the page. So I'm taking it down.
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i posted just now on the what if thread.

you can take that down also.

if this has become a dictatorial site, then i am in the wrong place and i'll be gone.

although you disagree with my admitted conspiracy theory regarding petrovic, i notice you did not dispute my facts regarding a 100% record of signings.

thank you and goodnight.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#62
#62
vladtheimpaler said:
i posted just now on the what if thread.

you can take that down also.
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No, I will not take it down. Do you know why? Because you were discussing basketball in that post.

although you disagree with my admitted conspiracy theory regarding petrovic, i notice you did not dispute my facts regarding a 100% record of signings.
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That's because I didn't think those facts, which revolved around who wasn't signed and who wasn't drafted, were remotely worthy of being refuted. Let's put it this way. During Vlade's tenure, he in fact DID sign a Croatian player: Duje Dukan, who played one game with the Kings. During that same time period there are 12 franchises that have not had any association with a Croatian player at all (** means no Croatian during entire existence of franchise):

Raptors
Bulls
Pistons**
Hawks
Hornets**
Heat
Nuggets**
Thunder**
Mavericks
Rockets
Grizzlies
Pelicans**

And heck, for what it's worth, the Kings had never had a Croatian player before Vlade was GM. So, are the GMs of those franchises even more anti-Croatian than Vlade? Or maybe there are just not enough Croatians in the NBA for the absence of Croatians on a team to be statistically indicative of anything.

And again, stirring the pot at KingsFans.com over ethnic fights in other countries? Not cool. Don't try it again.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#66
#66
Livinthedream said:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1394702935464972288

Glad Monte told him like it is. It's been the perimeter D the whole time. And not necessarily Buddy, because the team D got better at the end of the season with him out there playing heavy minutes.
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I’d like to see the Kings hand the keys to the offense to Haliburton and give Fox more off the ball opportunities. I’d like to see Haliburton take a big leap on offense so Fox doesn’t have to shoulder the load on that end. If we can do that maybe DeAaron can fully commit to being the great defensive player he can be.
 
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L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#67
#67
iowamcnabb said:
I’d like to see the King hand the keys to the offense to Haliburton and give Fox more off the ball opportunities. I’d like to see Haliburton take a big leap on offense so Fox doesn’t have to shoulder the load on that end. If we can take do that maybe DeAaron can fully commit to being the great defensive player he can be.
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I'm on board with this. In preseason I said Haliburton was the better PG (not better player). All I've asked of this team is to use players properly. Not try to make them into something they're not.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#68
#68
Capt. Factorial said:
No, I will not take it down. Do you know why? Because you were discussing basketball in that post.



That's because I didn't think those facts, which revolved around who wasn't signed and who wasn't drafted, were remotely worthy of being refuted. Let's put it this way. During Vlade's tenure, he in fact DID sign a Croatian player: Duje Dukan, who played one game with the Kings. During that same time period there are 12 franchises that have not had any association with a Croatian player at all (** means no Croatian during entire existence of franchise):

Raptors
Bulls
Pistons**
Hawks
Hornets**
Heat
Nuggets**
Thunder**
Mavericks
Rockets
Grizzlies
Pelicans**

And heck, for what it's worth, the Kings had never had a Croatian player before Vlade was GM. So, are the GMs of those franchises even more anti-Croatian than Vlade? Or maybe there are just not enough Croatians in the NBA for the absence of Croatians on a team to be statistically indicative of anything.

And again, stirring the pot at KingsFans.com over ethnic fights in other countries? Not cool. Don't try it again.
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When "facts" completely destroy "feelings". LMFAO.

There's really not much of a defense to be mounted against the above. Time for him to give it up and maybe think about altering a defeated POV.

But somehow I suspect that won't happen.
 
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sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#70
#70
Groovygreg said:
Time to move on from Bagley and Buddy - two mediocre Vlade acquisitions.
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Time to admit as bad as Bagley is the Kings don’t currently have a better option, used up cap space on a futile attempt to make the playoff, and have limited other options.

instead of asking to trade Bagley we ought to be praying he gets better.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#71
#71
Groovygreg said:
Time to move on from Bagley and Buddy - two mediocre Vlade acquisitions.
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To be fair, I think Buddy was more of a Vivek acquisition than a Vlade acquisition. Just like "Stauskas" was a Vivek draft selection.

It's been well chronicled that Vivek told Buddy he'd get him.

But Bagley is surely all on Vlade. And some of us will never forgive him for it.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#79
#79
steelevt said:
Whew. Good thing we didn’t draft Trae young, that list would only have 3 people. Trae thanks you Vlade
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The next time we overpay for a mid-level player remember this is how 99% of the league and players coming out of college feel lol. The other 1% willingly come here, then say the franchise baggage/history isn't their concern after 2-3 years of not making playoffs, then either walk for nothing or are signed to bloated contracts.
 
TaxMan

TaxMan

Starter
#81
#81
Tetsujin said:
Hell we probably would have found a way to miss the postseason with Luka as well.
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Not trying to start a deep debate around who is best on that list and where fox sits, but it does make you wonder what would have been. How much really does team culture and coaching go into the success of these players. If Sac had drafted Luka and traded fox for Porzingis, do we see the same Luka ascension to super stardom and two trips to the playoffs, or are we talking about Luka being a great building block but he needs more help and hasn't proven anything in Sac yet. There has GOT to be more to our 15 years of suck other than bad player acquisition (and even bad coaching). Is everything about this team just so toxic when players walk in the door? Vlade really was trying to change the "culture" and I think to an extent he did (sad as that sounds when you think of where we are now), but does winning bring order to our culture or does culture breed winning? Are some players so great (Lebron) that it immediately changes culture going forward, or are there other circumstances at play? If fox had been drafted by the suns one spot ahead of us, how much does that really change his career?
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#82
#82
TaxMan said:
Not trying to start a deep debate around who is best on that list and where fox sits, but it does make you wonder what would have been. How much really does team culture and coaching go into the success of these players. If Sac had drafted Luka and traded fox for Porzingis, do we see the same Luka ascension to super stardom and two trips to the playoffs, or are we talking about Luka being a great building block but he needs more help and hasn't proven anything in Sac yet. There has GOT to be more to our 15 years of suck other than bad player acquisition (and even bad coaching). Is everything about this team just so toxic when players walk in the door? Vlade really was trying to change the "culture" and I think to an extent he did (sad as that sounds when you think of where we are now), but does winning bring order to our culture or does culture breed winning? Are some players so great (Lebron) that it immediately changes culture going forward, or are there other circumstances at play? If fox had been drafted by the suns one spot ahead of us, how much does that really change his career?
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Sorry, the alternative timeline is that Luka and Bogi hit it off here and recruit Giannis in free agency :eek:
 
M

mac

All-Star
#84
#84
TaxMan said:
Not trying to start a deep debate around who is best on that list and where fox sits, but it does make you wonder what would have been. How much really does team culture and coaching go into the success of these players. If Sac had drafted Luka and traded fox for Porzingis, do we see the same Luka ascension to super stardom and two trips to the playoffs, or are we talking about Luka being a great building block but he needs more help and hasn't proven anything in Sac yet. There has GOT to be more to our 15 years of suck other than bad player acquisition (and even bad coaching). Is everything about this team just so toxic when players walk in the door? Vlade really was trying to change the "culture" and I think to an extent he did (sad as that sounds when you think of where we are now), but does winning bring order to our culture or does culture breed winning? Are some players so great (Lebron) that it immediately changes culture going forward, or are there other circumstances at play? If fox had been drafted by the suns one spot ahead of us, how much does that really change his career?
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There is no debate. This was basically the first season that Fox was really an impact player and the best we could muster was a late push for the play in game led by his backup. Right now Fox can score and that's about it, he doesn't make guys better, or provide game-changing leadership, or create open shots for them on a consistent basis. Part of that is on coaching and scheme of course. He's not an all star, let alone superstar or all NBA, and I don't see how he's any different from KAT or Wiggins or DLo at this point. Lots of talent, obviously the best player on the team, but just not a winner until otherwise proven. We'll just have to continue to hope though because we've chosen to ride or die with Fox and Hali. Exchange Fox for Luka on this year's squad and I guarantee we would have made the playoffs. Trae .. maybe not.
 
M

midtowner

Starter
#85
#85
If Fox becomes a plus defender, hits his free throws, or recruits good players to the team the script will quickly flip. But yeah, he’s like 10th team All NBA at this point.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#86
#86
mac said:
There is no debate. This was basically the first season that Fox was really an impact player and the best we could muster was a late push for the play in game led by his backup. Right now Fox can score and that's about it, he doesn't make guys better, or provide game-changing leadership, or create open shots for them on a consistent basis. Part of that is on coaching and scheme of course. He's not an all star, let alone superstar or all NBA, and I don't see how he's any different from KAT or Wiggins or DLo at this point. Lots of talent, obviously the best player on the team, but just not a winner until otherwise proven. We'll just have to continue to hope though because we've chosen to ride or die with Fox and Hali. Exchange Fox for Luka on this year's squad and I guarantee we would have made the playoffs. Trae .. maybe not.
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Fox can play defense when he cares to. He just needs to care more often. Fox has the ability to be a great 2-way player which is something neither Trae or Luka currently are. That being said, I agree Fox is a poor point guard.

You can see the difference between Bogi with Trae where the ball moves to weakside shooters and Bogi with Fox. Far to often with Fox the ball stays on one side of the floor while open shooters stand alone on the weak side. When those open shooters are as good as Bogi, it’s bad basketball.

Hopefully things change with Hali having the ball in his hands more.
 
M

midtowner

Starter
#87
#87
Hopefully things change with Hali and Cade having the ball in their hands more.

I’m a big fan of Fox - but there is a lot of things he needs to get better at. I think he can do it, but he’s got to show it every day.
 
Reverend

Reverend

Bench
#88
#88
sactowndog said:
Fox can play defense when he cares to. He just needs to care more often. Fox has the ability to be a great 2-way player which is something neither Trae or Luka currently are. That being said, I agree Fox is a poor point guard.

You can see the difference between Bogi with Trae where the ball moves to weakside shooters and Bogi with Fox. Far to often with Fox the ball stays on one side of the floor while open shooters stand alone on the weak side. When those open shooters are as good as Bogi, it’s bad basketball.

Hopefully things change with Hali having the ball in his hands more.
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How much longer can we say “has the potential to be” and at some point just see him for who he is - a super athletic handsy player that can be spectacular but inconsistent...he’s also being asked to exert a lot of energy on offense for us probably more than anyone so taking possessions off starts to make a bit more sense from his standpoint.
H
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#89
#89
A few of you may want to go back and look at his stats for the season. Fox is really good. Yes, he needs to better on D but you can say that about many top players. Fox is not really a guy we should be looking at other than to say if he becomes better on D and we pair him with another good D guard, we can take the next step as a team. I feel as though people are giving Haliburtona pass while he’s not nearly as good as Fox in damn near every category.
 
M

mrlaze

Bench
#90
#90
Pass for what? He was nearly ROY. He gets and A+ for his rookie season. If this is all he is, then yeah as a career maybe he's not so good. I see him being better than Fox by the end of it all.

If you asked me Fox or Halibuton I'd probably take Halibuton. I think his ceiling is higher.
 
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