[SI] De'Aaron Fox and the Kings Are Building for the Future

#91
Fox can play defense when he cares to. He just needs to care more often. Fox has the ability to be a great 2-way player which is something neither Trae or Luka currently are. That being said, I agree Fox is a poor point guard.

You can see the difference between Bogi with Trae where the ball moves to weakside shooters and Bogi with Fox. Far to often with Fox the ball stays on one side of the floor while open shooters stand alone on the weak side. When those open shooters are as good as Bogi, it’s bad basketball.

Hopefully things change with Hali having the ball in his hands more.
Well therein lies the difference between "winners" and "losers" doesn't it? Like I said, you really can't make a case that Fox is any better than KAT, DLo or Wiggins were at similar point in their careers. Making the playoffs changes that narrative, but until then, he hasn't proven anything other than that he can put up good stats on a lousy team.
 
#92
Exchange Fox for Luka on this year's squad and I guarantee we would have made the playoffs. Trae .. maybe not.
But is this true? Again, I'm not trying to argue about who's better... I would take Luka 10 out of 10 times, I'm just wondering how significantly different his career looks so far if he was drafted by the Kings. Are we so toxic that even potential future hall of fame careers come to die? I don't think I even have a real question here because nobody knows the answer.
 
#93
But is this true? Again, I'm not trying to argue about who's better... I would take Luka 10 out of 10 times, I'm just wondering how significantly different his career looks so far if he was drafted by the Kings. Are we so toxic that even potential future hall of fame careers come to die? I don't think I even have a real question here because nobody knows the answer.
15 years worth of draft picks and free agents haven't succeeded. Probably should have made the playoffs one of those years just by dumb luck. The Kings losing streak defies the odds. So there is your answer.
 
#95
A few of you may want to go back and look at his stats for the season. Fox is really good. Yes, he needs to better on D but you can say that about many top players.
Many KINGS fans here are an enigma. They can’t ever appreciate what they do have and always believe the grass is greener elsewhere.

Some act as if Trae Young, Devin Booker and #77 are the end all, be all — but ALL 3 of those players have defensive issues. In most cases more so than De’Aaron Fox. But since those players are elsewhere and not in SAC the issues are ignored.

Those same fans will quickly fire back, “but their teams win”. Well, until this season Young and Booker had never won. Yet had been around for a while. They are still the same players they were beforehand, just in better situations.

Furthermore, Mitch Richmond didn’t ever win in SAC yet was a pretty damn good player. A Hall of Famer.

Just because the KINGS are continually mismanaged doesn’t mean Fox is lesser than any of these other coveted players.
If the KINGS are to ever breakout, having talents as good as Fox are how they’ll do it,
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#97
So now we’re pitting haliburton against fox now? I guess he won the haliburton vs buddy war after buddy won the buddy vs bogie war. o_O Love how this board loves pitting our players against each other when they get bored of bashing our players vs other players around the league.
You know what they always say, a team with less good players on their roster is a team with a future!
 
#99
Many KINGS fans here are an enigma. They can’t ever appreciate what they do have and always believe the grass is greener elsewhere.

Some act as if Trae Young, Devin Booker and #77 are the end all, be all — but ALL 3 of those players have defensive issues. In most cases more so than De’Aaron Fox. But since those players are elsewhere and not in SAC the issues are ignored.

Those same fans will quickly fire back, “but their teams win”. Well, until this season Young and Booker had never won. Yet had been around for a while. They are still the same players they were beforehand, just in better situations.

Furthermore, Mitch Richmond didn’t ever win in SAC yet was a pretty damn good player. A Hall of Famer.

Just because the KINGS are continually mismanaged doesn’t mean Fox is lesser than any of these other coveted players.
If the KINGS are to ever breakout, having talents as good as Fox are how they’ll do it,
This is exactly my point. We do have good players on this roster and players that in a different situation would be seen very differently. The problem isn't always just the player but the complete situation. How you completely change that outside of getting new ownership I really don't know. Swap out Fox for Young or Booker and are we really a better team? .... and, that doesn't mean I disagree that those guys are getting major props this off-season, or wallowing in some feeling that Fox is getting snubbed nationally. It just seems like there is a class of player that is a superstar no matter what scenario they are drafted into (Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, etc.) and then there is the next levels down where the right situation unlocks a players ability and/or standing in the league.
 
It just seems like there is a class of player that is a superstar no matter what scenario they are drafted into (Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, etc.) and then there is the next levels down where the right situation unlocks a players ability and/or standing in the league.
Maybe not a super star in the conventional sense of size, athleticism, stats and production, but I think you have to mention players like Chris Paul that significantly raise the level of every team they play on.
 
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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Maybe not a super star in the conventional sense of size, athleticism, stats and production, but I think you have mention players like Chris Paul that significantly raise the level of every team they play on.
The thing is that CP3 came into the league and within three seasons had DPoY caliber Tyson Chandler, All-Star David West, and Peja before his body decided it didn’t want to play basketball anymore. While he eventually got to that point of all-around team elevator (sure didn’t work in Houston and NO by the end of his tenure but that’s besides the point), having a really good supporting cast also probably helped him.
This is probably the only year in Fox’s career that we can really say he’s had a roster that’s actually made some semblance of sense and injuries and Luke Walton sorta counteracted that to the point that it really didn’t matter. I mean the only reason the narrative’s shifted around Trae is that his GM canned Lloyd Pierce and replaced him with solid competent NBA coach Nate MacMillan and got rid of some of the self-imposed roster clutter at the trade deadline. Narratives are a fickle thing and at a certain point it makes no sense to try ranking players that are all at a similar level because, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all have different traits we value over others.
 
Many KINGS fans here are an enigma. They can’t ever appreciate what they do have and always believe the grass is greener elsewhere.

Some act as if Trae Young, Devin Booker and #77 are the end all, be all — but ALL 3 of those players have defensive issues. In most cases more so than De’Aaron Fox. But since those players are elsewhere and not in SAC the issues are ignored.

Those same fans will quickly fire back, “but their teams win”. Well, until this season Young and Booker had never won. Yet had been around for a while. They are still the same players they were beforehand, just in better situations.

Furthermore, Mitch Richmond didn’t ever win in SAC yet was a pretty damn good player. A Hall of Famer.

Just because the KINGS are continually mismanaged doesn’t mean Fox is lesser than any of these other coveted players.
If the KINGS are to ever breakout, having talents as good as Fox are how they’ll do it,
I think the difference between Fox and Trae offensively is the assists. Fox just doesn’t often make the pass to his week side shooters. On defense Fox is way better but I think Fox needs to be paired with a guy who can run the pick and roll. That guy wasn’t Bogi because he isn’t a great shooter off the dribble. Hali is the perfect guy for both Fox and Bogi.
 
Fox has improved and added to his game every offseason.

His instincts may be score first, but he’s self aware enough to know he needs to expand his game and be a better playmaker.

And as others have mentioned, he and Hali are a great complimentary backcourt.

If we’re actually in a place where we can legitimately debate Fox vs Hali, that’s a good problem to have. Hali needs to bulk up a bit before we have that conversation though. He’s not a guy who can drop 35+ on any given night like Fox.
 
The reality is there really should be no debate who is better. Its fox, hand down. 25/7/4 is an all star stat line and while Hali is definitely a more natural point guard, the issue of fox not making the weak side pass likely has more to do with who he is passing to rather than the vision, instinct, ability or desire to make the pass. Which shot would you honestly want to see? Fox in the lane or near the basket or Bagley or even barnes from the 3 even though they shot 34% and 39%respectively. Fox shoots 54% from inside the 3 and frankly with Fox on the bench, the kings frequently struggled to score. So often his focus needed to be on shooting the ball. The biggest weakness is not his passing (thats like saying harden doesnt pass just because he shot a lot in Houston, discounting the fact that he averaged over 7 assists per game in every season except the first2). Fox's biggest weaknesses are his shooting (FT and 3pt). Im perfectly happy with his passing game. I would like to see him be more consistent on defense yes, but he has excessive usage on this team on offense so is takes plays off. That honestly more an issue of the roster construction which I think has improved slightly with the addition of TD and Wright who can take some offensive responsibilities off Hali and Fox whether its playmaking (wright) or scoring (TD).

They need better roster construction. The kings fans on this board may keep saying they dont want midling vets but young bucks who can grow with the team leaders, but let me explain that the kings have never gottent midling vets who are in the middle of their career. They have gotten cheeky and cute trying to get pieces that that other teams dont think are important and then overpay them. Ask yourself, when was corey joseph ever a relevant player on any team? His best statistical year he averaged 9/3/3 in 25 min, 3 years before the kings got him and he was our first guys off the bench? Dewayne Dedmon? Paying a guy with 2 statistically ok (10/7) years on a terrible team 10M/year for 3 years? We should know better than any other team, players who are average at best look better on terrible teams. We have enough experience with players like WCS who were statistically decent on the kings but terrible on other teams. Yogi Ferrell who was sometimes on offensive spark can barely sniff the court on a good team. These types of players are barely NBA caliber players but we rely on them and then complain that our stars arent good enough. Our execs pass over players who are clearly once in a generation (we all knew Luka was going to be this guy) because they feel like getting cute with Bagley. Monte made a good move getting two guys who had a reasonable history of contributions on good teams for dirt cheap in the middle of the year but unfortunately this team never had an opportunity to play together since that time for any length of time.

They need to go get contributors that move the needle that are proven on teams who actually compete.
 
The reality is there really should be no debate who is better. Its fox, hand down. 25/7/4 is an all star stat line and while Hali is definitely a more natural point guard, the issue of fox not making the weak side pass likely has more to do with who he is passing to rather than the vision, instinct, ability or desire to make the pass. Which shot would you honestly want to see? Fox in the lane or near the basket or Bagley or even barnes from the 3 even though they shot 34% and 39%respectively..
Excuse me?

The closing lineup when everyone was healthy - Fox, Hali, Buddy, Barnes, and Holmes. On the year, Buddy and Barnes both shot 39% from 3; Hali shot 41%.

PASS. THE. DAMN. BALL.
 
The reality is there really should be no debate who is better. Its fox, hand down. 25/7/4 is an all star stat line and while Hali is definitely a more natural point guard, the issue of fox not making the weak side pass likely has more to do with who he is passing to rather than the vision, instinct, ability or desire to make the pass. Which shot would you honestly want to see? Fox in the lane or near the basket or Bagley or even barnes from the 3 even though they shot 34% and 39%respectively. Fox shoots 54% from inside the 3 and frankly with Fox on the bench, the kings frequently struggled to score. So often his focus needed to be on shooting the ball. The biggest weakness is not his passing (thats like saying harden doesnt pass just because he shot a lot in Houston, discounting the fact that he averaged over 7 assists per game in every season except the first2). Fox's biggest weaknesses are his shooting (FT and 3pt). Im perfectly happy with his passing game. I would like to see him be more consistent on defense yes, but he has excessive usage on this team on offense so is takes plays off. That honestly more an issue of the roster construction which I think has improved slightly with the addition of TD and Wright who can take some offensive responsibilities off Hali and Fox whether its playmaking (wright) or scoring (TD).

They need better roster construction. The kings fans on this board may keep saying they dont want midling vets but young bucks who can grow with the team leaders, but let me explain that the kings have never gottent midling vets who are in the middle of their career. They have gotten cheeky and cute trying to get pieces that that other teams dont think are important and then overpay them. Ask yourself, when was corey joseph ever a relevant player on any team? His best statistical year he averaged 9/3/3 in 25 min, 3 years before the kings got him and he was our first guys off the bench? Dewayne Dedmon? Paying a guy with 2 statistically ok (10/7) years on a terrible team 10M/year for 3 years? We should know better than any other team, players who are average at best look better on terrible teams. We have enough experience with players like WCS who were statistically decent on the kings but terrible on other teams. Yogi Ferrell who was sometimes on offensive spark can barely sniff the court on a good team. These types of players are barely NBA caliber players but we rely on them and then complain that our stars arent good enough. Our execs pass over players who are clearly once in a generation (we all knew Luka was going to be this guy) because they feel like getting cute with Bagley. Monte made a good move getting two guys who had a reasonable history of contributions on good teams for dirt cheap in the middle of the year but unfortunately this team never had an opportunity to play together since that time for any length of time.

They need to go get contributors that move the needle that are proven on teams who actually compete.
Fox often failed to make the weakside pass when Bogi was standing there and no one was in 10 ft. It has nothing to do with who is standing there. I’m not stating that Fox is a poor player. Merely that his game is more suited to playing the 2 than the point.
 
Some act as if Trae Young, Devin Booker and #77 are the end all, be all — but ALL 3 of those players have defensive issues. In most cases more so than De’Aaron Fox. But since those players are elsewhere and not in SAC the issues are ignored.

Those same fans will quickly fire back, “but their teams win”. Well, until this season Young and Booker had never won. Yet had been around for a while. They are still the same players they were beforehand, just in better situations.

wanna compare de'aarons IQ with trae's and luka's IQ?
incomparable!
this is why their teams win.

3 years of watching him playing 1 on 5... he'll never be a perennial all-star
he is simply dumb. period.
 
wanna compare de'aarons IQ with trae's and luka's IQ?
incomparable!
this is why their teams win.

3 years of watching him playing 1 on 5... he'll never be a perennial all-star
he is simply dumb. period.
Win what? So far we're seeing if you are sieve defensively at PG or don't have an era busting superstar trio you probably get somewhere around the 2nd round or maybe conference finals if you're lucky and that's about that.
 
wanna compare de'aarons IQ with trae's and luka's IQ?
incomparable!
this is why their teams win.

3 years of watching him playing 1 on 5... he'll never be a perennial all-star
he is simply dumb. period.
If I took you or your post seriously, it’d be super easy to destroy this subjective and laughable opinion (errr trolling attempt).

Beyond not taking you seriously, it’s easy enough to glean from the tone of it all that there’s no upside in trying to set you straight.

Gotta good idea that this is another burner account.
 
Excuse me?

The closing lineup when everyone was healthy - Fox, Hali, Buddy, Barnes, and Holmes. On the year, Buddy and Barnes both shot 39% from 3; Hali shot 41%.

PASS. THE. DAMN. BALL.
First tell the coach to SPREAD. THE. DAMN. FLOOR. and prioritize catch and shoot spot shots. Buddy didn't turn himself into a dribble, dribble pick and roll PG. There have been pleas in the media from him to go back to catch and shoot post Waltons hire. When Walton does spread the floor what does he do? He takes a potential star pnr big out of it so he can be the spot guy from the corner. Which Bagley has grown into BTW. Good for him, he was set up to fail in that regard and succeeded to some degree. It still doesn't mean Walton is basically taking his race car to the grocery store on the weekends and racing in his Kia during the week though.
 
That’s what I was wondering.

In 3 seasons the Hawks are 90-131 with Trae Young leading the way chucking and playing little defense.

But because they‘ve finally made the postseason once, in the East no less, somehow his team is labeled a “winner”. How rich.

Same goes for Booker, whose team averaged 24 wins a season the previous 5 seasons before Chris Paul arrived.

Young and Booker are both explosive offensive players, no doubt. But their teams sudden improvement in 2021 has more to do with factors outside those two individual players.

I wonder if this ridiculous logic with transfer to the KINGS? When they finally turn things around and post their 1st winning season since 2006, will that one season eclipse all the losing seasons so that they are then considered “winners” on the whole?

The shallow thinking that goes on around here sometimes is bewildering.
 
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Win what? So far we're seeing if you are sieve defensively at PG or don't have an era busting superstar trio you probably get somewhere around the 2nd round or maybe conference finals if you're lucky and that's about that.

hey man, dončić with a load of scrubs made it into promised land of the playoffs

with fox as our alpha man, we're getting nowhere, no playoffs, no play inns...
 
Wow. I’ve seen takes. I’ve seen player hate. This is at the top of the list. (Btw it’s not a good list)

no hate there, just reality... why should i hate fox?
he is what he is



4 years in a league, still playing like a 19 yrs old kid... his elite speed and acceleration wont cover his bad shooting, defence, decisions making, shot selection.
 
That was what I was wondering.

In 3 seasons the Hawks are 90-131 with Trae Young leading the way chucking and playing little defense.

But because they‘ve finally made the postseason once, in the East no less, somehow his team is labeled a “winner”. How rich.

Same goes for Booker, whose team averaged 24 wins a season the previous 5 seasons before Chris Paul arrived.

Young and Booker are both explosive offensive players, no doubt. But their teams sudden improvement in 2021 has more to do with factors outside those two individual players.

I wonder if this ridiculous logic with transfer to the KINGS? When they finally turn things around and post their 1st winning season since 2006, will that one season eclipse all the losing seasons so that they are then considered “winners” on the whole?

The shallow thinking that goes on around here sometimes is bewildering.
so curious how many Atlanta games have you watched?
 
no hate there, just reality... why should i hate fox?
he is what he is



4 years in a league, still playing like a 19 yrs old kid... his elite speed and acceleration wont cover his bad shooting, defence, decisions making, shot selection.
I think your point is fair regarding his defense and passing but Fox isn’t a Bagley or Oubre. A better comp might be Booker without the outside shooting chops currently. I think he also has improved and I don’t think your critique accounts for his improvement.