[Game] Kings vs. Bucks, 4/3/2021, 7pm PST 10pm EST

[Tetsujin]

Amazing that Holmes gets a pass on defense because he tries really hard.

I mean, it's not like I'm saying he's bad or anything but this last stretch of games has shown the inherent limitations in Holmes' game.

 

[SacTownKid]

Exactly. Not seeing how that's his fault.

The fault is of this team not committing to pressuring up on the switch. They overhelp with a small team incapable of providing any resistance at the rim anyway. They need to attack the dribble as a first line of defense. Not play off and body up defensively. That just isn't the personnel they have to work with.

 

[The_Jamal]

So do you agree he’s one of the best two way centers in the league?

He's not a star, so that removes him from the top 10ish Centers or so. But he's certainly in that next group. Somewhere around 12-17

 

[SacTownKid]

I mean, it's not like I'm saying he's bad or anything but this last stretch of games has shown the inherent limitations in Holmes' game.

Holmes is going to always have to be a defender that puts in the work. He's not a dominant rebounder, not a dominant shotblocker, etc. However, rarely is a matchup going to meet his lateral movement when dialed in. However, when the gas tank is half full it's going to work against you.

 

[Woot!]

You see, it’s everyone else’s fault.

straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: straw man; plural noun: straw men; noun: strawman; plural noun: strawmen
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

 

[Tetsujin]

He's not a star, so that removes him from the top 10ish Centers or so. But he's certainly in that next group. Somewhere around 12-17

So middle of the pack then?

 

[The_Jamal]

I mean, it's not like I'm saying he's bad or anything but this last stretch of games has shown the inherent limitations in Holmes' game.

Once again. Lol. Dude has a bad stretch and that somehow outweighs a much larger sample of being an excellent defender. Is Fox no longer a star because he's now on his 3rd bad game in a row?

 

[Tetsujin]

You see, it’s everyone else’s fault.

It's always everyone else's fault.

Unless the guy in question is Demarcus Cousins, in which case it's his fault for not making everyone around him better.

 

[The_Jamal]

So middle of the pack then?

Yep. Average starting center. One who provides unique value because of his offensive efficiency without hogging usage and being an excellent defender.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I'm still holding hope out for Bagley to take over thwt position

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Cousins is available?

 

[Tetsujin]

Once again. Lol. Dude has a bad stretch and that somehow outweighs a much larger sample of being an excellent defender. Is Fox no longer a star because he's now on his 3rd bad game in a row?

I haven't even said he's a bad defender. But elite? No. A top two-way center? No.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm still holding hope out for Bagley to take over thwt position

That ship is docked somewhere halfway around the globe at this point unfortunately.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yep. Average starting center. One who provides unique value because of his offensive efficiency without hogging usage and being an excellent defender.

His usage has been going up though, which has been another issue. (Not his but Luke's)

 

[The_Jamal]

It's always everyone else's fault.

Unless the guy in question is Demarcus Cousins, in which case it's his fault for not making everyone around him better.

Actually yes. Cousins was a supposed franchise player and top 15-20 player in the league. He gets held to a different standard than a Richaun Holmes because he's a different caliber player. Very similar to the standard Fox is at now where it's on him to be a star every night.

 

[dude12]

Holmes needs to be replaced and come off the bench for this team to become better. Not a knock against Holmes but he is best as a backup on a playoff team

 

[SLAB]

It's always everyone else's fault.

Unless the guy in question is Demarcus Cousins, in which case it's his fault for not making everyone around him better.

He yelled at refs, reporters, and maybe made Jason Thompson cry. It’s all his fault.

 

[The_Jamal]

His usage has been going up though, which has been another issue. (Not his but Luke's)

huh?

5-7 so far tonight, 12 points
4-10 vs Lakers, 11 pts
6-8 vs Spurs- 15 pts

Yeah, "taking more usage" At least try to make an argument that makes sense. What's bad about these shooting/scoring lines?

 

[SLAB]

Yep. Average starting center. One who provides unique value because of his offensive efficiency without hogging usage and being an excellent defender.

Excellent defender now?!

 

[SLAB]

Cousins is available?

As far as I know he signed with the Clippers.

 

[Tetsujin]

huh?

5-7 so far tonight, 12 points
4-10 vs Lakers, 11 pts
6-8 vs Spurs- 15 pts

Yeah, "taking more usage" At least try to make an argument that makes sense. What's bad about these shooting/scoring lines?

I'm not trying to be pithy or anything because the whole Dish situation has made it hard for a bunch of people to catches these games but have you been watching these games?

 

[The_Jamal]

Excellent defender now?!

yes?

 

[SacTownKid]

Now, they're just hitting everything.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yep. Average starting center. One who provides unique value because of his offensive efficiency without hogging usage and being an excellent defender.*

*Against certain teams that happen to not have anyone bigger than him.

 

[The_Jamal]

I'm not trying to be pithy or anything because the whole Dish situation has made it hard for a bunch of people to catches these games but have you been watching these games?

Yeah, it's bad stretch. So what? Every player goes through it, the whole team is. 3 games doesn't change Holmes profile as a top 15 center who makes an impact on both ends.

Even if I hadn't, your argument is him taking more usage is bad. His offense has been fine the last 3 games. Defensively, no.

 

[SacTownKid]

Also, this is certainly a moment where putting 3 new guys on the floor isn't helping. They are all out of sorts and for some reason Moe "One Foot Out the Door" Harkless is your inside-out go to guy, lol.

 

[Tetsujin]

huh?

5-7 so far tonight, 12 points
4-10 vs Lakers, 11 pts
6-8 vs Spurs- 15 pts

Yeah, "taking more usage" At least try to make an argument that makes sense. What's bad about these shooting/scoring lines?

Watch how he's being used though. As a finisher, he's been great. The issue with this last stretch of games though is that Walton seems to be obsessed with using him as an initiator.

 

[SacTownKid]

Look, Holmes is a terrific small ball mismatch center. Lets put it this way, can you imagine this dude under Mike D'Antoni? He'd easily be bumped up one more level into a top tier for sure.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Great lineup Luke! No centers or pf. God this bum

 

[SLAB]

yes?

Man... I do not see an excellent defender. Certainly solid-plus, when the matchup is right. Provides switchability other slower-footed centers don’t. But an excellent defender to me is someone who makes opposing players think twice about what they’re doing. Change the way they play and have a game altering presence. There isn’t a single person changing up their game because of Rashaun Holmes. And when the other guy is able to muscle him down?

Plus... We’re one of the worst defensive teams in history. It’s hard to justify calling anyone excellent TBH.