[The Athletic] Dumars has no interest in being the long-term head of basketball operations, and will not be a candidate in the search.

[Dime Dropper]

Those are the key words, cheat the system. Cheat the system. I want my team to do their best. I want it to be competitive. I don't want it screwed because of political infighting in upper reaches. I want competence on the side lines. I don't want to think that they are taking the masses for a ride charging full price for a product designed to fail. Fail in shorting the customer who is paying the price for admission today with promises of tomorrow. We aren't promised tomorrow.

It may be successful but it feels dirty.

I don't think anybody was being conned, it was very clear what the process was.

Personally I'd rather pay to watch young guys go out and compete and lose with the knowledge that it was for the betterment of the franchise, than to go out and watch a team lose due to poor signings, poor drafting and incompetent management for 15 years, but that's just me.

I get the moral conundrum, I really do. But this isn't life or death and nobody is being forced to spend their money. It's about getting a competitive team as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

[whozit]

I don't think anybody was being conned, it was very clear what the process was.

Personally I'd rather pay to watch young guys go out and compete and lose with the knowledge that it was for the betterment of the franchise, than to go out and watch a team lose due to poor signings, poor drafting and incompetent management for 15 years, but that's just me.

I get the moral conundrum, I really do. But this isn't life or death and nobody is being forced to spend their money. It's about getting a competitive team as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I understand both sides of the coin. I'm in Kentucky so other than league pass, I am not one of those paying customers. When I still lived in North Highlands, I was and was able to get tickets from the team despite the "Official" on-going sell out streak. That was dirty also. What they were selling and the truth weren't one and the same.

I don't know the answer. Young guys competing to be part of the answer is one thing. But I doubt that is the motivation and I don't blame the players during what is best for themselves.

With this constant turnover what players can you get behind and hope they succeed as the team succeeds. It's a problem I have with UK.

 

[24 rick barry]

My main concern is if this really is the right way. We don't really know because the guy got fired before he could see if the process really worked. The fact that the sixers havent won it all or even made it to the ECF doesnt help. Yes we can blame the GMs that followed but again no one could ever really know unless possibly they won it all not too long after he left. This is really a copycat league. Big 3 star teams, increase 3 point shooting etc. If tanking was the right way, he wouldnt be the only one that did it. Now if you say he was great/good at drafting or trading, I can get on board with that. i just dont think tanking is the only way or even a proven way. Hell, vlade's way could have gotten us fox and luka. I think that duo has just as much potential as Embiid/ben simmons if not more. Dont get me wrong, I'm not against hinkie. His drafting was pretty decent with high picks and later picks and found covington from the d-league. Also able to swindle vlade in a trade. I'd personally rather hear the guys accomplishments like others have mentioned on this site vs a gimicky "strategy" to cheat the system.

Hinkie has realized that the Drafting of 19 to 21 year old kids is not a perfect science. So what he has realized is that to increase your odds of selecting out a gem-you need more opportunities to draft in the top tier. He looks to take more bites out of the of the Apple.

On the other hand, if you take a swing at your only first round draft choice for a year, and you miss, then all you can do is switch the deck chairs of your existing roster. And you need to take on others bad contracts in exchange for those extra lucrative first round picks. Instead, we have been wasting away by trying to get into the 8th seed by filling the holes with a ZBO, a Vince Carter, Afflalo, and Matt Barnes, etc. I say stop wasting your time and your money here. Only get these guys if picking up this player gives you a first round pick in exchange for their bad contract.

The Kings aren't a destination location, so top free agent level stars are not coming here voluntarily.
Player development strategy. Well, you have a kind of a mature team now, so you know already what you are going to get.

Pieces fit of lesser players strategy-this is an art but many GMs from Petrie on down, pasted together some good fits and not so good fits. However, I do not think this gets you into the top 5.

Coaching-Yes it can add some wins I suggest, but does it lead to a championship. My example, take Golden State when Luke was acting Head Coach. It is the players that make the team win. If you make your shots and play defense, you win. If you don't have the ability to do this better than the opposing team, then you lose.

This is about a Championship, okay a contender in the top 5. Unless the Kings, make an organizational philosophical change-from just getting that 8th seed with just enough to get themselves into the playoffs- and their new GM does not implement a "Hinke" type plan, then all your getting is a change of the deck chairs. If this remains the case, I will be done as a season ticket holder. And this is coming from someone who has been a season ticket holder for over 30 years.

 

[steelevt]

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article245078435.html

looks like the kings actually do have a plan. And luckily it’s not who has the best power point, who’s the next best ex king, or just whoever Vivek has a good feeling about. Hopefully this guy does with us what he has done with the spurs, net, clippers and niners.

 

[kb02]

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article245078435.html

looks like the kings actually do have a plan. And luckily it’s not who has the best power point, who’s the next best ex king, or just whoever Vivek has a good feeling about. Hopefully this guy does with us what he has done with the spurs, net, clippers and niners.

This is good. Hopefully it'll expand to a reevaluation of the entire organization. Not just the GM role.

I follow Chelsea. They're my current PL team. Current, because I mostly follow USMNT players and they have the best USMNT player developing and thriving there. Chelsea is a cut throat culture. Coaches get fired mid-season, if they're under performing. Young players (Mizaga, Bakayoko, De Bruyne, Salah...) get signed, allowed to prove himself, and if he's not good enough (at that moment or ever), the player is loaned out or banished to the reserves--they don't care whether they've paid an arm or a leg for him. And being able to stay healthy is considered a skill (see: Bags). They lever their financial resources ruthlessly. Accountability is the foundation. Hope some of that rubs off on the Kings org.

 

[Joshoua]

Those are the key words, cheat the system. Cheat the system. I want my team to do their best. I want it to be competitive. I don't want it screwed because of political infighting in upper reaches. I want competence on the side lines. I don't want to think that they are taking the masses for a ride charging full price for a product designed to fail. Fail in shorting the customer who is paying the price for admission today with promises of tomorrow. We aren't promised tomorrow.

It may be successful but it feels dirty.

Listen to yourself, as long as we’re not tampering like LA/GSW who cares how we get to the top. Especially when it’s gaming a system designed to keep 25 teams down

 

[SelecaoKO]

Sixers are a mess. 129 mil on 4 players. None of which are game changers. Horford is 35 on the way out making 27 mil. Harris has the worst contract in the NBA getting paid 35 mil to do what exactly. Simmons still doesn't have a consistent shot. Embiid is a good center. But, paying 30 plus million for a Center in today's NBA style of play is a joke. Other than KAT and Davis, who is making that kind of money at the position. Not only that, those 4 players are under contract until 2022-23. Philly has a complete disaster on their hands. No one will touch any of those players. Unless, their getting back multiple picks, and possibly some young talent that has potential on that roster: Milton, Richardson, Thybuille, etc.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Hinki Unless the Kings, make an organizational philosophical change-from just getting that 8th seed with just enough to get themselves into the playoffs- and their new GM does not implement a "Hinke" type plan, then all your getting is a change of the deck chairs. If this remains the case, I will be done as a season ticket holder. And this is coming from someone who has been a season ticket holder for over 30 years.

Lol. A Hinkie type plan. How rich.

A plan that hasn’t succeeded in the least and has him out of the league for over 4 years now. Sure, let’s follow THAT plan!

IDK what hell some KINGS are thinking. Facts are facts. ‘The process’ hasn’t been successful and the dude who executed the plan hasn’t had an NBA job in over 4 years.

Yet those aren’t big enough stop signs for some. WTF?

FWIW, if the KINGS played in the East all these years, they wouldn’t be mired in 14 years of non-playoffs. So I don’t want to hear how Philly’s process has them in the postseason.

Besides, the plan had a much larger goal attached which they haven’t come close to. No team is going to field non-competitive teams for years just to reach the 2nd round of the playoffs a couple times.

 

[John Galt]

Lol. A Hinkie type plan. How rich.

A plan that hasn’t succeeded in the least and has him out of the league for over 4 years now. Sure, let’s follow THAT plan!

IDK what hell some KINGS are thinking. Facts are facts. ‘The process’ hasn’t been successful and the dude who executed the plan hasn’t had an NBA job in over 4 years.

Yet those aren’t big enough stop signs for some. WTF?

FWIW, if the KINGS played in the East all these years, they wouldn’t be mired in 14 years of non-playoffs. So I don’t want to hear how Philly’s process has them in the postseason.

Besides, the plan had a much larger goal attached which they haven’t come close to. No team is going to field non-competitive teams for years just to reach the 2nd round of the playoffs a couple times.

Hinkie represents a philosophy of being able to pat yourself on the back for sucking more than anyone else sucks. Hate it.

 

[Joshoua]

Lol. A Hinkie type plan. How rich.

A plan that hasn’t succeeded in the least and has him out of the league for over 4 years now. Sure, let’s follow THAT plan!

IDK what hell some KINGS are thinking. Facts are facts. ‘The process’ hasn’t been successful and the dude who executed the plan hasn’t had an NBA job in over 4 years.

Yet those aren’t big enough stop signs for some. WTF?

FWIW, if the KINGS played in the East all these years, they wouldn’t be mired in 14 years of non-playoffs. So I don’t want to hear how Philly’s process has them in the postseason.

Besides, the plan had a much larger goal attached which they haven’t come close to. No team is going to field non-competitive teams for years just to reach the 2nd round of the playoffs a couple times.

Hinkie represents a philosophy of being able to pat yourself on the back for sucking more than anyone else sucks. Hate it.

Y’all don’t respond or acknowledge facts about Hinkie

 

[whozit]

Y’all don’t respond or acknowledge facts about Hinkie

No. They are giving a different viewpoint. Even if I was on board with his methodology, I have zero confidence that Vivek would see it all the way through. He hasn't yet.

 

[Joshoua]

No. They are giving a different viewpoint. Even if I was on board with his methodology, I have zero confidence that Vivek would see it all the way through. He hasn't yet.

Yes different viewpoints but not bribing facts and ignoring facts about Hinkie.


How does one say the process doesn’t work? Philadelphia has won 50+ games two seasons and was on pace to win 48 this year, that’s a 50+ win team for 8-10 years. Hinkie left them with a treasure chest of picks and assets. So I ask is a 50+ win team for a decade not a Successful completion of the process?

And this is with new management doing everything in there power to mess up said process with the worst trades and signings as possible.

 

[whozit]

Yes different viewpoints but not bribing facts and ignoring facts about Hinkie.


How does one say the process doesn’t work? Philadelphia has won 50+ games two seasons and was on pace to win 48 this year, that’s a 50+ win team for 8-10 years. Hinkie left them with a treasure chest of picks and assets. So I ask is a 50+ win team for a decade not a Successful completion of the process?

And this is with new management doing everything in there power to mess up said process with the worst trades and signings as possible.

He brought the one fact that might matter to him. He hates it. Harden is very successful but there are those that hate his game. I don't see the difference.

 

[whozit]

I agree about Vivek not seeing it through. I don't think he'd even consider Hinkie, I've said that before.

My factual post was deleted, however, by mods. No surprise this forum is dying a slow death.

I have to wonder if that is also reflective of the King's fanbase. With everything else that is going on in the world who needs the headache.

 

[whozit]

No, I don't like me Hardens game. Not relevant at all to the discussion tho.

I think Harden's game is relevant for comparison. He successfully gets to the playoffs year after year, wouldn't a Kings' fan love that? Hate his game and I don't know how I would feel if that was the game the Kings played. Emphasis on "don't know!"

 

[Capt. Factorial]

My factual post was deleted, however, by mods. No surprise this forum is dying a slow death.

Your post was deleted because it was full of excessive and over-the-top personal attacks from top to bottom. You have been here a long time, and you know very well that what you posted was not acceptable. Your repost was also deleted, and you will not be replying in this thread again.

 

[John Galt]

Y’all don’t respond or acknowledge facts about Hinkie

what are you talking about? What fact(s) would you like to have acknowledged? I'm most likely happy to do so. Doesn't mean I want to see the Kings run that way - what is wrong with that? I have said why from the outset.

 

[John Galt]

Yes different viewpoints but not bribing facts and ignoring facts about Hinkie.


How does one say the process doesn’t work? Philadelphia has won 50+ games two seasons and was on pace to win 48 this year, that’s a 50+ win team for 8-10 years. Hinkie left them with a treasure chest of picks and assets. So I ask is a 50+ win team for a decade not a Successful completion of the process?

And this is with new management doing everything in there power to mess up said process with the worst trades and signings as possible.

If I said I would sign on for 8-10 years of 50 win seasons and early playoff exits (I would) - most people would accuse me of thinking too small and selling out and not having enough "parade or bust" mentality. We can all see it different ways can't we? I have ALWAYS thought I would rather have a run like the Jazz or Spurs... where you are ALWAYS somebody - always in the mix, even if you don't take it all the way over the hump. I would rather have that than a one shot wonder.

Anyway - I don't think Hinkie's approach is sportsmanlike and I have the total right to feel that way

 

[24 rick barry]

Sixers are a mess. 129 mil on 4 players. None of which are game changers. Horford is 35 on the way out making 27 mil. Harris has the worst contract in the NBA getting paid 35 mil to do what exactly. Simmons still doesn't have a consistent shot. Embiid is a good center. But, paying 30 plus million for a Center in today's NBA style of play is a joke. Other than KAT and Davis, who is making that kind of money at the position. Not only that, those 4 players are under contract until 2022-23. Philly has a complete disaster on their hands. No one will touch any of those players. Unless, their getting back multiple picks, and possibly some young talent that has potential on that roster: Milton, Richardson, Thybuille, etc.

What does this have to do with Hinke? Bad trades, draft selections, and signings after he left are not his fault. If someone came in after him and messed it up, that is on them, not Hinke. I think we can both say, that as result of his General Management, the franchise was turned around. He was successful.

We have languished for some 15 years trying to improve the club incrementally. And I think we can all say that it has been a failure.

Every GM that makes a draft selection wants to pick the right player. And for the most part, nearly all blow it at some point. Now that drafting of 19 - 21 year old with 1 year of college play is commonplace, I think it becomes all the more difficult, especially when drafting outside the top 5. Hinke, I think specializes in acquiring and accumulating draft assets, seeking more high number 1's, whereby the team might find the hit to go along with the inevitable miss. I don't know that he has special draftee selection powers, but I do know he can accumulate more high draft picks than others middle of the road teams that have but one number 1 middle of the draft pick.

A question that I heard on the radio from Carmichael Dave this week. With the Warriors probably regaining their footing, and the T-Wolves with the number 1 pick, what Western division teams entire roster would you not exchange for the entire Kings Roster. What teams? I suspect your answer will be maybe 1, 2 or 3.
That would mean that you would believe that at least 12 of 15 teams have a better roster than the Kings do.

All the more reason, to revamp philosophy and follow the Hinke model. Time for the major overhaul. IMHO Regards to all Pro and Con.

 

[SelecaoKO]

You speak as if you 2 are related. They're plenty of options available for the Next Sac Gm. Strangely enough, Hinkie has never been mentioned as a candidate by any media outlet. Secondly, building a core around a big man is mistake number One.

Other than Anthony Davis(Who happens to be with Lebron) The Big man's influence on the game is very apparent. It's a guards and wings game now. All you have to do is look at the champions of the past 10 years. How many dominant centers play into that.

 

[24 rick barry]

You speak as if you 2 are related. They're plenty of options available for the Next Sac Gm. Strangely enough, Hinkie has never been mentioned as a candidate by any media outlet. Secondly, building a core around a big man is mistake number One.

Other than Anthony Davis(Who happens to be with Lebron) The Big man's influence on the game is very apparent. It's a guards and wings game now. All you have to do is look at the champions of the past 10 years. How many dominant center play into that.

I don't know Sam Hinke.

However, Sam Amick described Hinke as being on Vivek's wish list.

Hinke has a unique ability to acquire high draft assets.

Hinke, I would say, just based on my reading about how he goes about his business, he would select the best available player regardless of position. Or he might trade the current first round selection for 2ea successive 1st rounders with the high probability that both are high draft choices for the next 2 years.

Kindly wondering, what Western division team rosters would you not exchange the whole of the Kings roster for right now?

 

[SelecaoKO]

None. I think the Kings have the most poorly constructed roster in the West. Top 5 Worst in the league.

 

[Joshoua]

If I said I would sign on for 8-10 years of 50 win seasons and early playoff exits (I would) - most people would accuse me of thinking too small and selling out and not having enough "parade or bust" mentality. We can all see it different ways can't we? I have ALWAYS thought I would rather have a run like the Jazz or Spurs... where you are ALWAYS somebody - always in the mix, even if you don't take it all the way over the hump. I would rather have that than a one shot wonder.

Anyway - I don't think Hinkie's approach is sportsmanlike and I have the total right to feel that way

Yes you can feel it’s unsportsmanlike but people are saying his plan did work that’s what some of us have an issue with

 

[King Baller]

Yes different viewpoints but not bribing facts and ignoring facts about Hinkie.


How does one say the process doesn’t work? Philadelphia has won 50+ games two seasons and was on pace to win 48 this year, that’s a 50+ win team for 8-10 years. Hinkie left them with a treasure chest of picks and assets. So I ask is a 50+ win team for a decade not a Successful completion of the process?

And this is with new management doing everything in there power to mess up said process with the worst trades and signings as possible.

I am all for Hinkie being included in the interviews for Kings GM if he is interested. If he was chosen among all the young talented front office people would you give him carte blanche to trade any player on the Kings roster?

 

[kb02]

"King Baller, post: 1522241, member: 4139"]I am all for Hinkie being included in the interviews for Kings GM if he is interested. If he was chosen among all the young talented front office people would you give him carte blanche to trade any player on the Kings roster?

Unequivocally, yes. All players would be tradeable, including Fox. This next GM, whoever he or she may be, you have to go all in n trust the process.

 

[whozit]

I am all for Hinkie being included in the interviews for Kings GM if he is interested. If he was chosen among all the young talented front office people would you give him carte blanche to trade any player on the Kings roster?

This is not nice. It is not nice to make me encouraging Vivek's inclusion. I would hope during the interview process it would be made clear what the approach going forward would be and what he (Vivek) would be expecting and what the boundaries would be.

So no, I would not give the GM carte blanche to trade any player unless it is within the agreed upon boundaries/limits. I would then expect all parties to stay within their respective lanes.

 

[24 rick barry]

This is not nice. It is not nice to make me encouraging Vivek's inclusion. I would hope during the interview process it would be made clear what the approach going forward would be and what he (Vivek) would be expecting and what the boundaries would be.

So no, I would not give the GM carte blanche to trade any player unless it is within the agreed upon boundaries/limits. I would then expect all parties to stay within their respective lanes.

Since Carte blanche is not defined here- I will suggest the GM's power and limitations. I imagine that the GM would have the power to trade, or sign any player-within the financial limits set-subject to the owner's approval.

This is probably the norm for all pro sport team organizations.

 

[Joshoua]

I am all for Hinkie being included in the interviews for Kings GM if he is interested. If he was chosen among all the young talented front office people would you give him carte blanche to trade any player on the Kings roster?

Unequivocally, yes. All players would be tradeable, including Fox. This next GM, whoever he or she may be, you have to go all in n trust the process.

Yup Fox hasn’t show that he could be a franchise player. I doubt Hinkie would trade him but if he traded him it would be for a haul, I trust Hinkies eye for talent and his trades. Hinkie can trade whoever he wants any other GM I be bullish on the trading Fox

 

[NewArena]

What the hell has Hinkie done to have Carte Blanche on any decision? When did he become a genius at making trades?

i could’ve sworn they simply got lucky, with Embid and Ben Simmons falling into their laps after tanking. Whats so genius about that

 

[24 rick barry]

What the hell has Hinkie done to have Carte Blanche on any decision? When did he become a genius at making trades?

i could’ve sworn they simply got lucky, with Embid and Ben Simmons falling into their laps after tanking. Whats so genius about that

His genius is taking a talent busted franchise and turning it around. Trading whomever/anyone is tradeable and trading for players with bad contracts in exchange for draft choices, etc. No one has shown to do this better. The plan worked.

Kindly wondering, what Western division team rosters would you not exchange the whole of the Kings roster for right now?

I suspect I know your answer. IMHO Regards pro and con