What is the #1 Need for the Kings?

[bajaden]

I agree wholeheartedly. I think the #1 need on the team ultimately boils down to coaching and player development. Think of everything we've been mentioning recently:

BBIQ
Team Defense
Fundamentals
Intangibles

These are the things that coaches need to teach the players, but there has been little to no evidence that the players have really come along in those departments.

Really? Is it that you think the coaching and training staff aren't trying to do their jobs. or, they're incapable of doing their jobs, or, that the players are incapable of learning? You again made a general statement. Lets get specific shall we? If I accept that what you said is true, then who is the blame? Management for not providing proper training? Lets see, you have a fairly large group to choose from.

Head coach: Luke Walton
Asst. coach: Igor Kokoskov
Asst. coach: Bob Beyer
Asst. coach: Jesse Mermuys
Asst. coach: Roy Rana

Then you also have this next group of assistant coaches in charge of player development.

Bobby Jackson
Stacey Augmon
Lindsey Harding
Will Scott
Rico Hines

So let me ask you this. In the off season, where is it that a large majority of NBA players go to work on their game? They go to LA and work with a man who is widely regarded as one of the best trainers in basketball. His name is Rico Hines, who by the way, the Kings hired as an assistant coach in order to give their players the best there is full time. So are we blaming Rico for this so called lack of fundamentals. Maybe, just maybe, it's because the team has had very little on court experience with one another. We had Bagley for a whole 15 games. Holmes was hurt. Fox missed a fair share of games. We had a trade before the deadline bringing in new players.

We switched Buddy from starting to coming off the bench. We had Giles, who hardly played for most of the season now starting. If you don't think any that affects the result on the floor your nuts. It's not helpful to have a new face next to you on the floor every time you turn around. At this point we don't even know how Bagley fits on the team. How many changes will have to be made offensively and defensively for him to fit in, if any?

The problems the Kings have are complicated, and this past season didn't answer all the questions that needed answering. But it doesn't have to do with the lack of fundamentals as much as it does with having everyone on the floor together long enough to get familiar with each other. There is no substitute for in game experience where there is very little predictability. Or, do you think all those coaches and trainers I listed above, all of whom who have had success elsewhere, are now incompetent?

 

[sactowndog]

I know what you mean, but not sure it's fair to characterize Theis as a wing. And which Williams are you referring to?

The Rockets might be an even more extreme example, having abandoned any pretense of playing a big in order to start and play several switchable wings.

This ultimately gets back to the Bagley question, though. If you are willing to play Bagley major minutes at the 5, you should look to add another 3/4 type in place of a big. If you're playing Bagley mostly at the 4, though, and you're keeping Bjelica and also playing Barnes at the 4 some (as Walton was doing more and more as the season went on), are you ok with your wings being mostly of the 2/3 variety since there aren't minutes at the 4 anyway?

Grant Williams. I took out Rob who is also 6’9” since he isn’t a shooter.

 

[sactowndog]

I agree with you in regards to the Kings and the need for more defensive wings. That said Theis and Williams are Forward - Centers.

Grant Williams is not. Theis is arguable.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willigr01.html

 

[sactowndog]

Is Vlade playing Bleacher Report Fantasy GM?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...melo-wiseman-more-in-2020-mock-draft.amp.html


12. New Orleans Pelicans (via Kings): RJ Hampton (New Zealand Breakers, PG/SG, 2001)

After trading Nickeil Alexander-Walker during B/R's GM Week, the Pelicans could be looking at Hampton, a more explosive athlete with similar combo skills. Behind Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday, the 19-year-old will have time to work and develop his playmaking feel and three-point shooting.

 

[King Baller]

Grant Williams is not. Theis is arguable.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willigr01.html

I was looking at their squad listed on NBA.com. Theis and Robert Williams III are listed as Foward-Center.

To be honest I seldom watch the C’s and don’t know much about these two.

https://www.nba.com/teams/celtics

 

[ESP47]

I was looking at their squad listed on NBA.com. Theis and Robert Williams III are listed as Foward-Center.

To be honest I seldom watch the C’s and don’t know much about these two.

https://www.nba.com/teams/celtics

Both are listed at 6'8" but play much bigger. Neither would be consider a wing. It would be like calling Chuck Hayes a wing since he was 6'6". He played much bigger than that.

I'd love to have Williams III. I think he's going to be a great defensive player.

 

[The_Jamal]

Grant Williams is not. Theis is arguable.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willigr01.html

Theis is not arguable. Him, Kanter and Bob Williams were all in a time-share at C this season.

 

[sactowndog]

I was looking at their squad listed on NBA.com. Theis and Robert Williams III are listed as Foward-Center.

To be honest I seldom watch the C’s and don’t know much about these two.

https://www.nba.com/teams/celtics

yes but Theis can stretch the floor. Robert Williams was not the Williams I was listing. He is a pure center.

 

[Joshoua]

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200521-6y2x66whwbaknn3kxwwwi62hni-story.html

How about Beal? Just got started in his prime and can create offense for others which we need not too many 30/4/6 guys or what I think he’d be closer to 25/5/5 last year. We’d probably have to give up Buddy/Bagley/1st for him though but I’d do it.

 

[LPKingsFan]

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200521-6y2x66whwbaknn3kxwwwi62hni-story.html

How about Beal? Just got started in his prime and can create offense for others which we need not too many 30/4/6 guys or what I think he’d be closer to 25/5/5 last year. We’d probably have to give up Buddy/Bagley/1st for him though but I’d do it.

I’d do it too. Combine Buddy and Bagley into a single elite player, and then keep Baze and Len to fill in the holes. Not sure what Washington’s asking price would be, though, and the fact that could opt out in 2022 is a bit concerning.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

With the hit that BRI is going to take, I bet there will be some big names, even MVP candidate types, available this summer. And, we may not have to attach Bagley to get them. It’s just going to come down to how bold Vivek is willing to be.

 

[kingsboi]

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200521-6y2x66whwbaknn3kxwwwi62hni-story.html

How about Beal? Just got started in his prime and can create offense for others which we need not too many 30/4/6 guys or what I think he’d be closer to 25/5/5 last year. We’d probably have to give up Buddy/Bagley/1st for him though but I’d do it.

if you could get Beal without dealing Fox and Bagley preferrably although unlikely, you do it in an instance. Include a draft pick or two as well if you must.

 

[jiimbob]

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200521-6y2x66whwbaknn3kxwwwi62hni-story.html

How about Beal? Just got started in his prime and can create offense for others which we need not too many 30/4/6 guys or what I think he’d be closer to 25/5/5 last year. We’d probably have to give up Buddy/Bagley/1st for him though but I’d do it.

Ive thought about this scenario. Last I heard Beal is not the happiest camper in Washington and Buddy has had issues here. Beal is younger than Buddy so would make a nice time line with Fox. Hopefully Bagley will be fine but a trade like this would erase any questions, in my mind, that we picked the wrong player.

 

[jcassio]

Let me get this straight. You guys are proposing that we trade Hield and Bagley for Beal? And Beal can walk on us after one season?

 

[Joshoua]

Let me get this straight. You guys are proposing that we trade Hield and Bagley for Beal? And Beal can walk on us after one season?

Ya I just saw that and lakers would have a lot of room

 

[jiimbob]

Let me get this straight. You guys are proposing that we trade Hield and Bagley for Beal? And Beal can walk on us after one season?

I believe he signed a max extension through the 2021-22 season with a player option 2022-23. So I think we would have him for at least two years.
Not thinking it could actually happen but I wouldn’t mind a backcourt of Fox and Beal at all.

 

[twslam07]

The #1 need is to see Bagley play. Full stop.

The personnel decisions and direction to take the team are so much easier after we see him in his 3rd season.

If he stays the way he is (limited to the inside on offense, not a reliable shooter, can’t reliably guard Cs, can’t play good defense, can’t protect the rim) then he’s a bench player at best and a bench warmer at worst and we shouldn’t even consider him part of the core (hence he shouldn’t even be considered when determining what our biggest personnel needs are).

If he significantly improves just one aspect Of his game (shooting, ability to guard Cs, ability to play good defense, ability to protect the rim), then you likely have a better sense of where to take this team.

The GM inside me wants to run through all the hypothetical trades In the world, but realistically, we need to know what we have in Bagley first.

 

[bajaden]

I believe he signed a max extension through the 2021-22 season with a player option 2022-23. So I think we would have him for at least two years.
Not thinking it could actually happen but I wouldn’t mind a backcourt of Fox and Beal at all.

Your correct. Beal is signed through the 2021/22 season with a player option for the last year. It's doubtful he would opt out of a 37.2 mil payday, but who knows. Odds are we would have him for the next 3 years. That said, I wouldn't give up both Buddy and Bagley for him.

 

[Joshoua]

Your correct. Beal is signed through the 2021/22 season with a player option for the last year. It's doubtful he would opt out of a 37.2 mil payday, but who knows. Odds are we would have him for the next 3 years. That said, I wouldn't give up both Buddy and Bagley for him.

Almost certain he opts out gives him an extra year at the end of his next contract and also his 10th year. You wouldn’t give those two up for Beal why? The way it looks neither one look like number 1 or 2 scores/playmakers on a team while Beal is atleast a number 2 scorer/playmaker. Players like Beal are extremely hard to come

 

[Volblorx8634]

Really? Is it that you think the coaching and training staff aren't trying to do their jobs. or, they're incapable of doing their jobs, or, that the players are incapable of learning? You again made a general statement. Lets get specific shall we? If I accept that what you said is true, then who is the blame? Management for not providing proper training? Lets see, you have a fairly large group to choose from.

Head coach: Luke Walton
Asst. coach: Igor Kokoskov
Asst. coach: Bob Beyer
Asst. coach: Jesse Mermuys
Asst. coach: Roy Rana

Then you also have this next group of assistant coaches in charge of player development.

Bobby Jackson
Stacey Augmon
Lindsey Harding
Will Scott
Rico Hines

So let me ask you this. In the off season, where is it that a large majority of NBA players go to work on their game? They go to LA and work with a man who is widely regarded as one of the best trainers in basketball. His name is Rico Hines, who by the way, the Kings hired as an assistant coach in order to give their players the best there is full time. So are we blaming Rico for this so called lack of fundamentals. Maybe, just maybe, it's because the team has had very little on court experience with one another. We had Bagley for a whole 15 games. Holmes was hurt. Fox missed a fair share of games. We had a trade before the deadline bringing in new players.

We switched Buddy from starting to coming off the bench. We had Giles, who hardly played for most of the season now starting. If you don't think any that affects the result on the floor your nuts. It's not helpful to have a new face next to you on the floor every time you turn around. At this point we don't even know how Bagley fits on the team. How many changes will have to be made offensively and defensively for him to fit in, if any?

The problems the Kings have are complicated, and this past season didn't answer all the questions that needed answering. But it doesn't have to do with the lack of fundamentals as much as it does with having everyone on the floor together long enough to get familiar with each other. There is no substitute for in game experience where there is very little predictability. Or, do you think all those coaches and trainers I listed above, all of whom who have had success elsewhere, are now incompetent?

I agree with everything you say here. No substitute for in game experience when it comes to developing your game and team chemistry. And I have advocated in other threads that because this team has lacked that, I do not think there is any choice but to stick with coaching and management until this team has a chance to put out a team consistently and give them a chance to get together. I think I mentioned elsewhere that there were only 4 games all season Fox, Bagley, Buddy, and Bogi played together. Only 2 games consecutively. That's obviously not a recipe for success when your core can't stay healthy on the floor together.

That being said, I don't think some criticism is unwarranted when the team still struggles with absolute fundamentals of basketball.

How De'Aaron Fox is still a 70% FT shooter boggles my mind. I don't know who is to blame. Is he not putting in the work? Maybe. Are shooting coaches ineffective? Maybe. But for our star PG who can't shoot threes and needs to attack the rim where he will be fouled often to shoot 70% is unacceptable if I'm a member of the organization. Granted, he was shooting FTs well the last week or two before the suspension, but Fox had 15 games where he shot under 60% from the line, averaging 6 FTA per game in those games. Despite all the very valid points you raise about team chemistry and continuity, that's a failure in player development, in my opinion. This season is his worst shooting season from the line.

That's just one example. We can talk about Buddy's failure to develop defensively (I won't mention Bagley because of his lack of time on the court). We can talk about the team's general inability to box out or set good screens that create separation for the ball handler from his defender.

So yes, I agree with what you're saying about consistent floor time for the team. However, that doesn't mean that there haven't been areas in which players haven't shown the improvement they should be showing, regardless of whether thay is the fault of coaches, development staff, players, or some combination of them all. I wasn't assigning blame but giving my opinion on the team's #1 need.

 

[bajaden]

Almost certain he opts out gives him an extra year at the end of his next contract and also his 10th year. You wouldn’t give those two up for Beal why? The way it looks neither one look like number 1 or 2 scores/playmakers on a team while Beal is atleast a number 2 scorer/playmaker. Players like Beal are extremely hard to come

You could be right about him opting out, but walking away from 37mil in guaranteed money is risky. If Beal were 30 or 31 years old, then I could understand. He would be trying to land his final big contract to end his career on. But he's only 26 years old. He can playout that last year and still land a huge contract after it, and probably one more later.

The reason I wouldn't give up both Buddy and Bagley is because we still don't know what we have in Bagley. And while you and others may be willing to give up on him already, I'm not. The very people that are ready to trade him, are the same people that will be criticizing Kings management if Bagley goes somewhere else and becomes an all star. I'll give up Buddy and a couple of future 1st rd picks, or something similar, but that's it. By the way, Beal is one of my favorite players in the NBA. I would be thrilled to have him on the team.

 

[SLAB]

A new PBP announcer. Heyooooooo!!!!!!

 

[joemama]

Heart

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Heart

 

[Groovygreg]

The #1 need is to see Bagley play. Full stop.

The personnel decisions and direction to take the team are so much easier after we see him in his 3rd season.

If he stays the way he is (limited to the inside on offense, not a reliable shooter, can’t reliably guard Cs, can’t play good defense, can’t protect the rim) then he’s a bench player at best and a bench warmer at worst and we shouldn’t even consider him part of the core (hence he shouldn’t even be considered when determining what our biggest personnel needs are).

If he significantly improves just one aspect Of his game (shooting, ability to guard Cs, ability to play good defense, ability to protect the rim), then you likely have a better sense of where to take this team.

The GM inside me wants to run through all the hypothetical trades In the world, but realistically, we need to know what we have in Bagley first.

I would be astounded if Bagley turns out to be anything better than a run-of-the-mill journeyman NBA player.

 

[hrdboild]

Re-reading most of this thread, I keep coming back to the same ideas: we need consistency, discipline, focus, accountability. We need to give a damn about defense for more than 5 minutes a game. Vlade built a talented roster but they don't know how to win games and I don't see how they get there without a stronger organizational effort to focus on the details and work harder than everyone else. What Greg Popovic did in San Antonio isn't rocket science. Over their 20+ year playoff run that organization had a lot of talent but they also had an identity built around sacrificing for the team. From the front office down to the coaching staff and the players on the court what this organization has struggled to understand in the Vivek era is that bringing more egos into the room is not going to make you better if they can't all learn to pull in the same direction. That feels to me like a failure of leadership.

 

[gunks]

A time machine?


For real though, I think a competent GM needs to be priority, then we can worry about roster stuff. This ramshackle team is probably going to be blown up by whoever gets Vlade's old desk anyhow.

 

[Joshoua]

Re-reading most of this thread, I keep coming back to the same ideas: we need consistency, discipline, focus, accountability. We need to give a damn about defense for more than 5 minutes a game. Vlade built a talented roster but they don't know how to win games and I don't see how they get there without a stronger organizational effort to focus on the details and work harder than everyone else. What Greg Popovic did in San Antonio isn't rocket science. Over their 20+ year playoff run that organization had a lot of talent but they also had an identity built around sacrificing for the team. From the front office down to the coaching staff and the players on the court what this organization has struggled to understand in the Vivek era is that bringing more egos into the room is not going to make you better if they can't all learn to pull in the same direction. That feels to me like a failure of leadership.

Tim Duncan ain’t walking through that door

 

[hrdboild]

Tim Duncan ain’t walking through that door

We've got a clean house in both the front office and the sideline as far as I'm concerned. Just get rid of everyone. They're not performing. I'm sure we can find a place in there for the big fundamental somewhere.

 

[King Baller]

I think the #1 thing the Kings need is better scouting and drafting. A young GM candidate poached from one of the teams with a good drafting record is a start. Then that new GM goes out and hires a couple of the best scouts. An east coast guy, a west coast guy and someone familiar with European talent. That group becomes the nucleus of the new Kings organization.

I think the existing leadership in the Kings front office needs to be replaced.. IMO the COO certainly needs to stay out of basketball decisions at the very least. It amazes me that Vivek kept Matina but dismissed Petrie so quickly. While Matina has an amazing story the Kings have faltered while she has been in her role.