What is the #1 Need for the Kings?

#31
problem is teams can beat that offer if a star is available. Say Simmons is available Washington could send them Beal or Portland could send them CJ/Simmons/Collins and GSW can send DLo/top 5 pick.

Also with the Turner deal Barnes and Warren would be interchangeable at the foward position, while picking up a lottery pick and Holmes
I didn't see Holmes was part of the deal that makes it interesting for the Pacers.
 
#32
I didn't see Holmes was part of the deal that makes it interesting for the Pacers.
my full proposal with us having the 10th pick (projecting us to finish ahead of every team in the East not in the playoffs and Minnesota/GSW. I also assume we’ll be keep Deadmon as well.

Barnes/Holmes/10th pick
For
Turner/McDermott

I don’t think we have enough to get a star player like Beal or a possible Ben Simmons but Turner at 23 is an absolutely great grab
 
#33
my full proposal with us having the 10th pick (projecting us to finish ahead of every team in the East not in the playoffs and Minnesota/GSW. I also assume we’ll be keep Deadmon as well.

Barnes/Holmes/10th pick
For
Turner/McDermott

I don’t think we have enough to get a star player like Beal or a possible Ben Simmons but Turner at 23 is an absolutely great grab
I think the Pacers could really use Bjelly next to Sabonis maybe Bjelly/10th pick/Holmes (I would prefer to get rid of Barnes), but tying up that much money to Barnes would be suicide. While I have soured on Turner since his rookie season he brings a skill-set any team wants. By trading for Bjelly/Holmes /pick they still got flexibility in upcoming seasons to land another massive piece and Holmes has been a beast this year and BJelly fits in great while freeing up Sabonis @C where he's next level.
 
#34
I think the Pacers could really use Bjelly next to Sabonis maybe Bjelly/10th pick/Holmes (I would prefer to get rid of Barnes), but tying up that much money to Barnes would be suicide. While I have soured on Turner since his rookie season he brings a skill-set any team wants. By trading for Bjelly/Holmes /pick they still got flexibility in upcoming seasons to land another massive piece and Holmes has been a beast this year and BJelly fits in great while freeing up Sabonis @C where he's next level.
I agree that trade would be better for them so they do t have to pay Barnes and could resign Bjlecia/Holmes to reasonable salaries
 
#35
I feel the guys the Kings are most likely to move in a trade are Belly, Bogi, Giles, and Deadomd. Not necessarily my preference but these are the names we have heard in rumours (or have requested a trade) and where there is smoke...
 
#40
Stability.
To sit tight. Ride out the season with the personnel we have, keep our first round pick and draft the best available player and work on developing our team.

Our bench has hardly played any mins together. We need cohesiveness and (as others have said) to figure out where our talent is and isn't.

Fox can work on FT and 3s. Passing to teammates after he dribble penetrates.
Buddy work on using pick and roll more effectively, shot selection, squaring up and not fading on shots.
Bagley needs to add muscle, work on passing the ball, understanding defensive positioning.
Bjelly, setting picks.
Barnes needs to work on passing after postups, instead of forcing bad shots.
Dedmon needs to stop shooting the 3. He is so wide open he could take a step forward and hit the long 2. Maybe thay's his range, or swing the ball after a pump fake.

If we keep rolling with Dedmon we have a true center, if not, Bagley, Bjelly, and Holmes are really more power forwards playing out of position. We are having to send extra defenders when other teams post up their bigs against our "bigs" and this is causing the breakdown of our defense. I didn't mind Mika because he played physically down low, which is what a center needs to do.
 
#41
I think the stupidest thing this FO can do is to do win-now moves before Thursday.
Exactly. The Kings should be open to making short-term improvements to its roster only if the cost is reasonable, but the focus should remain on building assets and lining up the finances to support future acquisitions/moves over the longer term - probably during the next 1-4 years.
 
#43
I've said this before but coaching, player development, and a solution to our big man rotation.

It's clear that Walton doesn't know how to maximize this team's potential. We are way worse than last year while adding solid pieces to our core. Plus, evidence from the games show that this team is horribly coached.
  • We never play 48 minutes of quality basketball and lack fundamentals.
  • The number of times per game that players forget (or simply choose not) to box out is unacceptable.
  • Same with the number of wide open three pointers we give up.
  • MAYBE 10% of the screens our big men set are actually quality screens that create separation for the ball handler.
  • During rough stretches of the game, players will just isolate and play hero ball rather than look to make a play or pass that opens up a quality shot.
  • We are a horrible free throw shooting team
None of the above is due to a lack of talent, it's a lack of coaching. I don't know how Walton doesn't force our big men to do box out or screening drills hundreds of times every practice. I don't know how Walton doesn't work on defensive rotations in practice, etc. And if he is working on these things in practice, he's ineffective at sending the message to players because we don't see it in the games.

Then there's the player development. None of our young players have shown improvement this year outside of Fox in the last month or so. Fox is improving in his aggressiveness and taking over of games. He still needs to work on his 3s and FTs. But Bagley hasn't shown improvement in his defensive abilities and rotations and his 3 point shooting has regressed (I know about his injuries). Giles isn't even getting the minutes he needs to improve. Buddy has regressed like crazy because of what he was asked to do in this system until coming off the bench, but is still a terrible defender and horrible decision maker. Bogi hasn't refined his decision making, passing, or defense. Where's the development? These guys last year showed that if they could continue their trajectory of development they could've been a playoff team this year. But from a player development perspective there's been stagnation and/or regression.

And what are we gonna do when Marvin and Holmes are healthy? We have five big men that have individual aspects of their games that are useful, but none of them put it all together.

Marvin: young w/ potential, but terrible defensively and can't shoot
Giles: young w/ potential and a great passer, but fouls too much and not good defensively
Dedmon: better defender but not our future and isn't spreading the floor cuz he can't shoot anymore
Holmes: our best player so far this year when he's playing, but can't spread the floor
Bjeli: Too slow to guard 4's and not strong enough to guard 5's but incredible shooter who spreads the floor and high BBIQ.

What do you do with that? Our team played best when Holmes and Bjeli started together during Marvin's initial injury, but neither of them is going to make us a playoff team. Marvin needs to develop so he needs to play. Holmes and Marvin haven't shown the ability to play together because there isn't enough spacing on the court. Bjeli and Marvin haven't shown they could play together because they're a terrible defensive combination. The purpose of getting Dedmon was to spread the floor at the 5 while contributing defensively, but he forgot how to shoot. So we have a 5 man smorgasbord of big men who don't have the combination of skills needed to push this team forward. And Giles can't even get minutes without Marvin and Holmes, so are we just giving up on him as a prospect?

There's no moves we can make that make us a playoff team this year, so as mentioned we need assets for the future. Draft picks, young talent with potential will help us long term moving forward.

That was long-winded, but more than any personnel moves, we gotta figure out our coaching, player development, and big man rotation.
 
#44
I've said this before but coaching, player development, and a solution to our big man rotation.

It's clear that Walton doesn't know how to maximize this team's potential. We are way worse than last year while adding solid pieces to our core. Plus, evidence from the games show that this team is horribly coached.
  • We never play 48 minutes of quality basketball and lack fundamentals.
  • The number of times per game that players forget (or simply choose not) to box out is unacceptable.
  • Same with the number of wide open three pointers we give up.
  • MAYBE 10% of the screens our big men set are actually quality screens that create separation for the ball handler.
  • During rough stretches of the game, players will just isolate and play hero ball rather than look to make a play or pass that opens up a quality shot.
  • We are a horrible free throw shooting team
None of the above is due to a lack of talent, it's a lack of coaching. I don't know how Walton doesn't force our big men to do box out or screening drills hundreds of times every practice. I don't know how Walton doesn't work on defensive rotations in practice, etc. And if he is working on these things in practice, he's ineffective at sending the message to players because we don't see it in the games.

Then there's the player development. None of our young players have shown improvement this year outside of Fox in the last month or so. Fox is improving in his aggressiveness and taking over of games. He still needs to work on his 3s and FTs. But Bagley hasn't shown improvement in his defensive abilities and rotations and his 3 point shooting has regressed (I know about his injuries). Giles isn't even getting the minutes he needs to improve. Buddy has regressed like crazy because of what he was asked to do in this system until coming off the bench, but is still a terrible defender and horrible decision maker. Bogi hasn't refined his decision making, passing, or defense. Where's the development? These guys last year showed that if they could continue their trajectory of development they could've been a playoff team this year. But from a player development perspective there's been stagnation and/or regression.

And what are we gonna do when Marvin and Holmes are healthy? We have five big men that have individual aspects of their games that are useful, but none of them put it all together.

Marvin: young w/ potential, but terrible defensively and can't shoot
Giles: young w/ potential and a great passer, but fouls too much and not good defensively
Dedmon: better defender but not our future and isn't spreading the floor cuz he can't shoot anymore
Holmes: our best player so far this year when he's playing, but can't spread the floor
Bjeli: Too slow to guard 4's and not strong enough to guard 5's but incredible shooter who spreads the floor and high BBIQ.

What do you do with that? Our team played best when Holmes and Bjeli started together during Marvin's initial injury, but neither of them is going to make us a playoff team. Marvin needs to develop so he needs to play. Holmes and Marvin haven't shown the ability to play together because there isn't enough spacing on the court. Bjeli and Marvin haven't shown they could play together because they're a terrible defensive combination. The purpose of getting Dedmon was to spread the floor at the 5 while contributing defensively, but he forgot how to shoot. So we have a 5 man smorgasbord of big men who don't have the combination of skills needed to push this team forward. And Giles can't even get minutes without Marvin and Holmes, so are we just giving up on him as a prospect?

There's no moves we can make that make us a playoff team this year, so as mentioned we need assets for the future. Draft picks, young talent with potential will help us long term moving forward.

That was long-winded, but more than any personnel moves, we gotta figure out our coaching, player development, and big man rotation.
You make several valid points about members of the current Kings roster, chief among which is a mismatched group of big men. That is one of several personnel issues that needs to be fixed in order for the team to make strides.
 
#48
Suns are looking to move Oubre the Kings need to be all over this.
Barnes and James 3 2nd rd picks for Oubre and Baynes

Suns get 4 2nd rd reserves plus a good vet for Inconsistent Oubre and ender Baynes

or Barnes and Bogie for Oubre and Johnson(ender)

They take Barnes contract to get Bogie
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#51
Who on the team do we unfairly crap on?
On please. Don't even try and pretend it doesn't happen here (and on virtually every other sports message board on the interwebs). And it's not everybody. It's the same few over and over (and over and over) and over and over again.
 
#52
On please. Don't even try and pretend it doesn't happen here (and on virtually every other sports message board on the interwebs). And it's not everybody. It's the same few over and over (and over and over) and over and over again.
what player is unfairly criticized? The only player who didn’t deserve would be Holmes but I never saw hate for him on here.
 
#55
The Kings need more toughness and I would like them to trade for JaMycal Green who's a excellent defender (guards not only PF's but SF's as well) and can space the floor and good rebounder, he's like the PF version (undersized)of Holmes except he can hit the 3 ball. He's playing on a stacked Clippers team so not really seen the best of him this year.

I'm sure there is a three way deal out there or even a Bjelly swap or something we could do.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#56
MOD NOTE: Rule #1 is don't be a jerk. This seems to be getting lost in the shuffle around here at times. If you want to criticize aspects of a player's game, cool. If your in-depth take is "he sucks" don't bother posting it. Your post will be deleted and warning points issued. There are forums where that kind of #hottaek is greatly appreciated. KF isn't one of them. Hopefully a word to the wise should be sufficient.
 
#58
Oubre is a nice pickup if available. I would find a way to move Barnes if possible. Attach seconds and maybe Bjelica. Oubre fits the timeline, pace, tempo and general plan. He has improved every year.
 
#59
I've said this before but coaching, player development, and a solution to our big man rotation.

It's clear that Walton doesn't know how to maximize this team's potential. We are way worse than last year while adding solid pieces to our core. Plus, evidence from the games show that this team is horribly coached.
  • We never play 48 minutes of quality basketball and lack fundamentals.
  • The number of times per game that players forget (or simply choose not) to box out is unacceptable.
  • Same with the number of wide open three pointers we give up.
  • MAYBE 10% of the screens our big men set are actually quality screens that create separation for the ball handler.
  • During rough stretches of the game, players will just isolate and play hero ball rather than look to make a play or pass that opens up a quality shot.
  • We are a horrible free throw shooting team
None of the above is due to a lack of talent, it's a lack of coaching. I don't know how Walton doesn't force our big men to do box out or screening drills hundreds of times every practice. I don't know how Walton doesn't work on defensive rotations in practice, etc. And if he is working on these things in practice, he's ineffective at sending the message to players because we don't see it in the games.

Then there's the player development. None of our young players have shown improvement this year outside of Fox in the last month or so. Fox is improving in his aggressiveness and taking over of games. He still needs to work on his 3s and FTs. But Bagley hasn't shown improvement in his defensive abilities and rotations and his 3 point shooting has regressed (I know about his injuries). Giles isn't even getting the minutes he needs to improve. Buddy has regressed like crazy because of what he was asked to do in this system until coming off the bench, but is still a terrible defender and horrible decision maker. Bogi hasn't refined his decision making, passing, or defense. Where's the development? These guys last year showed that if they could continue their trajectory of development they could've been a playoff team this year. But from a player development perspective there's been stagnation and/or regression.

And what are we gonna do when Marvin and Holmes are healthy? We have five big men that have individual aspects of their games that are useful, but none of them put it all together.

Marvin: young w/ potential, but terrible defensively and can't shoot
Giles: young w/ potential and a great passer, but fouls too much and not good defensively
Dedmon: better defender but not our future and isn't spreading the floor cuz he can't shoot anymore
Holmes: our best player so far this year when he's playing, but can't spread the floor
Bjeli: Too slow to guard 4's and not strong enough to guard 5's but incredible shooter who spreads the floor and high BBIQ.

What do you do with that? Our team played best when Holmes and Bjeli started together during Marvin's initial injury, but neither of them is going to make us a playoff team. Marvin needs to develop so he needs to play. Holmes and Marvin haven't shown the ability to play together because there isn't enough spacing on the court. Bjeli and Marvin haven't shown they could play together because they're a terrible defensive combination. The purpose of getting Dedmon was to spread the floor at the 5 while contributing defensively, but he forgot how to shoot. So we have a 5 man smorgasbord of big men who don't have the combination of skills needed to push this team forward. And Giles can't even get minutes without Marvin and Holmes, so are we just giving up on him as a prospect?

There's no moves we can make that make us a playoff team this year, so as mentioned we need assets for the future. Draft picks, young talent with potential will help us long term moving forward.

That was long-winded, but more than any personnel moves, we gotta figure out our coaching, player development, and big man rotation.
I don't agree with the last part (didn't we just get done stockpiling assets? didn't we use more first round picks than any team in the league over the last 5 years?) ... but I agree with enough of this to give you a thumbs up. Player development used to be this team's bread and butter way back when we were actually good but it's been a real weakness lately. Which is why all those draft picks haven't added up to much. I don't think more picks is the solution. I think we need to actually commit to a coach and a style of play first. The early returns on the Walton era have been poor but I'd still like to see the team commit to a system for 5 years, any system, instead of cleaning house every other year.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#60
The number 1 need is for this coach to finally bite the bullet and commit to playing small to see if that is a fix to this team inexcusable mediocrity. I read an article on hoopshype post Dedmon trade and it said that when Bjelica plays center this teams offensive rating jumps like 15 points or something ridiculous like that. What even they didn't realize is that it's the fact that they are playing small around him that's the bigger key. Set the front court to 3 bigs and no more.