[Game] Kings v. Thunder - Wednesday, Dec. 11 - 7PT, 10ET
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We wanted to know from whom the minutes would be subtracted for Bagley. Bagley played 23 minutes last night. Bjelica played 22 minutes; Holmes 24.5 minutes. The 22 minutes of Bjelica is six minutes below his average minutes over the last five games (28 min/game) and Holmes played eleven minutes below his minute average over the last five games (35.5 min/game).
foul trouble (Holmes) and matchups (OKC only really plays one big at a time) undoubtedly played some role. Will be interesting to see how that plays out moving forward. The Knicks have about 8 power forwards in their rotation, so Walton may be more likely to play two-big lineups on Friday. I’m hoping to see the Holmes/Bagley pair get some run and be successful.
That ending was so great for this team. Bogi, whose clearly playing through pain (you can see it in his face) shows incredible patience and knocks down what would be the game winning shot followed up by some sticky D on CP3 by RH. You can just tell that CP3 and his cocky self was trying like hell to break RH's ankles for the highlight instead of just going for the best shot available. When RH turned into Fred Astaire, CP3 panicked and settled for a fade away jumper instead. Womp Womp.
I will say this about OKC, Nader and SGA are very nice players. I wouldn't mind both of those guys in a King's uni.
I will say this about OKC, Nader and SGA are very nice players. I wouldn't mind both of those guys in a King's uni.
I was happy with Bagley's effort defensively last night. I hope he keeps it up. His perimeter defense was impressive. He still looked a bit shaky in the pick & roll when he wasn't just completely switching off to the ball handler, but I'm hopeful that will improve (along with understanding rotations better) with time, experience, & coaching. I was also surprised how we didn't seem out muscled when Bagley & Adams were out there as the Cs.
I've said it before, but for the Kings to reach their full potential with this group, they are going to need Bagley to...
I've said it before, but for the Kings to reach their full potential with this group, they are going to need Bagley to...
- Become a good defender
- Be able to handle the C spot to end games
- Become a consistent 3pt shooter
I think that’s secondary to be honest. If he can’t defend or shoot but can use both hands around the rim, that doesn’t catapult him to being a high impact player. Show me a big man who is not a good defender, good shooter, or good passer, and I’ll show you a big man who’s not a team’s cornerstone.
Having an athletic big who can defend multiple positions well (C being one of them), knock down the three, and be a great lob threat is already quite the weapon.
Playmaking, ball handling, & off hand would be in the 2nd tier of development IMO, and would be what takes him from star to superstar level.
Having an athletic big who can defend multiple positions well (C being one of them), knock down the three, and be a great lob threat is already quite the weapon.
Playmaking, ball handling, & off hand would be in the 2nd tier of development IMO, and would be what takes him from star to superstar level.
I think his/her assessment is right at this point in time, but I think we need to see Bagley over a 10-15 game stretch to feel confident in that assessment. Just like we needed to give Walton a 10-15 game stretch to start the year to feel good abut gauging him as a coach.
It shouldn't stop us from comparing their impact on the court in the meantime (this is a forum after all), but it's hard to make any definitive statements about Bagley's impact after his 1st game back. Let's give him his sample size of games just like we gave everyone else.
Having said that, Holmes has set a pretty high bar in terms of impact on the floor this season, but Bagley does have a lot potential. Whether that potential translates into impact on the floor this season remains to be seen. If his impact is not close to Holmes, it does spark an interesting discussion of limiting Bagley's minutes in favor of Holmes to help us win now vs. sticking with Bagley as a high minute player knowing that this team really will only go as far as Fox & Bagley can take them. I'd lean towards giving Bagley big minutes this season even if that sacrifices some wins this year.
We're in the endgame now.
It shouldn't stop us from comparing their impact on the court in the meantime (this is a forum after all), but it's hard to make any definitive statements about Bagley's impact after his 1st game back. Let's give him his sample size of games just like we gave everyone else.
Having said that, Holmes has set a pretty high bar in terms of impact on the floor this season, but Bagley does have a lot potential. Whether that potential translates into impact on the floor this season remains to be seen. If his impact is not close to Holmes, it does spark an interesting discussion of limiting Bagley's minutes in favor of Holmes to help us win now vs. sticking with Bagley as a high minute player knowing that this team really will only go as far as Fox & Bagley can take them. I'd lean towards giving Bagley big minutes this season even if that sacrifices some wins this year.
We're in the endgame now.
From a total impact I would agree. But from a defensive impact, Holmes is proving to be an elite interior defender who does a great job of showing on the pick and roll, switching into guards and also recovering.
Marvin may well shine offensively. Defensively, it would be unfair to Marvin, who has historically struggled on defense, to expect him to replace Holmes impact this year. To even think he will approach Holmes level in 10 games seems a stretch for something that has historically last year and in college been a significant weakness. The Defensive end has been the end that has made a difference
Luke played it perfectly last night but again it wouldn’t be fair to expect him to hit it that finally grained. Luke is going to have to make a call depending on the organizational priorities.
Marvin may well shine offensively. Defensively, it would be unfair to Marvin, who has historically struggled on defense, to expect him to replace Holmes impact this year. To even think he will approach Holmes level in 10 games seems a stretch for something that has historically last year and in college been a significant weakness. The Defensive end has been the end that has made a difference
Luke played it perfectly last night but again it wouldn’t be fair to expect him to hit it that finally grained. Luke is going to have to make a call depending on the organizational priorities.
Nor have I, nor am I. My point was not doubting Luke. My point is he is facing somewhat conflicting priorities that it will be virtually impossible to balance. No coach in the world plans, I will give this guy 25 min and we should still be able to win by 1. What he chooses to do regarding minutes going forward will be interesting to watch.
I see Dedmon as a stopgap bench player --- who I've termed Koufos+. And I agree that Giles should get minutes too; there's no reason not to cut down minutes for the front line player a small chunk.....playing say 26-28min in instead of 35 or 40 each. i haven't looked at the minutes average. Big believer in all-hands on deck, and resting to play at a higher level when on court.
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No problems with any of this. I use ignore for some posters I find too bombastic. Just a personal choice.
If you looked at what Bjelica did last year, I don't think you could predict what he's doing this year. Everything we know about Bagley's play is based on last year. I don't think you can say anything definitive about this year until at least 10-15 games. You can predict what he's likely to do based on past performance, but you can't predict for sure until we have a larger sample size, and we've seen how he fits with this year's team.
If you looked at what Bjelica did last year, I don't think you could predict what he's doing this year. Everything we know about Bagley's play is based on last year. I don't think you can say anything definitive about this year until at least 10-15 games. You can predict what he's likely to do based on past performance, but you can't predict for sure until we have a larger sample size, and we've seen how he fits with this year's team.
I agree that defense and the 3 are more important skills in this day and age, but this is a rare case that I don't think should be a secondary issue. Bagley's right hand is so bad he prefers to drive into players and take awkward fadeaways from weird angles rather than take open shots he could easily get by just going to his off hand. For a guy like Bagley, who has very strong basketball instincts close to the basket, this is a major issue. I'd put it right there with defense and being able to shoot the 3 as very high priority issues.
I don't think it's unfair to expect something from Bagley. I think it's unfair to get upset if he doesn't have that type of impact this season (e.g., meaning I'm preaching patience), but the expectation should always be to become a good defender and be as impactful as Holmes on the defensive end one day. We spent a #2 pick on him. Expectations should be high, but that doesn't mean patience is low.
I can understand why one would think there are conflicting priorities if one were looking at the here and now. But Walton isn't looking at the here and now. Will playing Bagley over Bjelica or Holmes possibly lose some games this year. Yes, it's possible. Guess what? Walton doesn't care. He's looking longer term. That's why I don't think he's conflicted in the least when it comes to Bagley. When you hear him talk about Bagley he is positively effusive. He's thinking months and even years into the future and he's absolutely not going to let either Bjelica or Holmes get in the way of riding the Bagley gravy train.
He’s a coach who is paid to win. He coaches a franchise who hasn’t been to the play-offs for years. There is no way there isn’t a conflict. It would be an interesting poll to see if Kings fans would be willing to miss the play-offs this year on the expectation of growth from Bagley. Of course, half will be unwilling to vote at all which ignores the choice Walton might be facing. To be honest, I’m not sure how I would vote which is why I find this such a fascinating question. There are no easy answers.
Oh, there may be conflict between Walton and some fans. When is there not conflict between a coach and some fans? But Walton doesn't care about that. The reason there is no conflict is that he and Vlade are like conjoined twins. To give you some insight into Walton's outlook I heard him on the radio that there's going to reach a point sometime this season (maybe sooner rather than later) where he is not going to call a timeout when the team is not doing what they are supposed to do on the floor and might even lose a game because of it. He said, laughingly, that the Kings fans will go crazy when that happens, especially when a game(s) is lost because of it. And why would he do such a thing? Why would he put winning as a lower priority? Why would he really not care (and laugh) that the Kings' fans would go nuts when OBVIOUSLY a time out was required to tell his guys how to get their act together? Because he's thinking long term, that's why. He knows he has to take the training wheels off and have these guys take matters into their own hands. He wants to see them take ownership on the floor and do the things they need to do without his micro-management. That's what mature, good teams do.
Nice. Crowdsource the GM job. My vote would be to build me a contender. I don't care about an 8th seed one year, then 5 more years of no playoffs. Maximize the talent of your draft picks.
Half the issues this organization has had up to this point results from too often bending to public perception and not focusing on the steps for building a solid foundation.
Half the issues this organization has had up to this point results from too often bending to public perception and not focusing on the steps for building a solid foundation.
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