The ONE AND ONLY Luka Doncic discussion thread

[VF21]

Right there my friends is the sole reason why I have absolutely ZERO confidence in this front office turning this franchise around.

This team has been the laughing stock for over a decade. 13 year playoff drought. Out of all of the four major sports...Only the Mariners, Marlins and the Browns have us beat. Truly pathetic. We've watched other teams rebuild TWICE now since our 2006 first round exit. Sure, some teams can pull off a quick turnaround by being more of a destination spot for FAs but that's just another excuse I'm tired of hearing. At the end of the day, we wouldn't even been having this discussing if this team started doing what they should have done 2-3 years removed from the playoffs... you simply draft the best player available. I don't know why this is so hard for this franchise to understand.

Name another franchise that has had the front office upheaval (including ownership, of course) that the Kings have had. It's real easy to lump everything together. It's simply not that simple.

Having said that, I know people are going to continue their lambasting of the front office. I'd just like to see some recognition of just how many drastic changes AND periods of total lunacy (yes, I'm talking about you PDA) that have occurred.

 

[Joshoua]

Last year I floated the argument that passing on Luka was less about Luka vs Bagley and more about Luka vs Fox. That received pushback.

Vlade chose the player who he thought would fit best next to Fox. I proposed the question that, if Luka is better and will be better than Fox, then Luka/Bagley fitting next to Fox was the wrong question to ask and the wrong assessment to make.

Simply put, Vlade chose Fox as the franchise player over Luka. That appears the real mistake in my eyes. He chose Bagley as a sidekick and #2 option rather than taking the likely superior franchise player and #1 option.

FWIW, I see Fox as a potential All Star and as someone who'd fit quite well next to Luka. Not as a criticism but an observation, I don't see #1 option assassin mentality from Fox. He looks to me like an elite #2 option. And as for Luka not being able to play well next to another ball handler, he played quite well next to Barrea last season. Fox would kill it hitting the gaps Luka creates from the attention he draws. Fox would repeatedly find himself getting the ball in 1v1 situations with little help defense.

The fit y’all pisses me off take Luka if there both number 1 options than were gold if not trade one of them. Also Fox in his rookie year didn’t look like a franchise player I don’t care what he did in practice and like you said I see Fox as a all star player but Luka is a top 5 multiple mvp player.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well every other player in this era is welcome to go out and start racking up 30 point triple doubles too.

C'mon there is no coincidence that after eons some players are getting triple doubles in their sleep. As for this era, not every player is going to a) have the usage needed (Westbrook), nor are they going to b) be able to exploit pick and roll the way certain players can. It started when Nash went from decent all star level talent to MVP overnight and it revolves around pick and roll. The numbers aren't telling you everything right now except that if you can run pick and roll and shoot you can put up unreal numbers. Curry, Harden, Trae, Lillard, and so on. It's a skilled guard league right now. 15-25 years ago it was more of a physical alpha league and players like them would likely be quite different in their production capacity and efficiency. The rebounds, well, some of that is also dependent on how much your big men are willing to take a back seat. Westbrook is now playing next to more of a board gobbler and his numbers are dipping. A lot of these numbers make me to realize how insane Larry Bird was. The dude played next to two HOF bigs and still brought down 10 boards a game for his career. Obviously in todays league Bird would probably spend most of his time at center and truthfully he did defend centers quite a bit back in the day.

 

[ockingsfan]

I'm going to throw this out there, because big men usually take 3 to 4 years to really develop into what they ultimately will be. This will be a hypothetical question for y'all.

This assumes Luka stays steady with his current level of being a "triple double" threat every night, like a LeBron or Westbrook level player.

Considering Bagley has all the physical tools to potentially become an efficient 2 way player (good defense and offense), what if Bagley in his 3rd or 4th years develops into a Anthony Davis or Giannis type big, putting up somewhere between 26 ppg, 12 reb, 1.5 blocks, 3 asst and becomes an anchor on defense too.

Will some of you "Luka Lovers" ever accept that we also got a very good All-NBA level player too in the draft or are you done with Vlade, no matter how well Bagley develops in a couple of years?

This is a serious question, I would like to know y'all opinion.

 

[sergmatt]

I'm going to throw this out there, because big men usually take 3 to 4 years to really develop into what they ultimately will be. This will be a hypothetical question for y'all.

This assumes Luka stays steady with his current level of being a "triple double" threat every night, like a LeBron or Westbrook level player.

Considering Bagley has all the physical tools to potentially become an efficient 2 way player (good defense and offense), what if Bagley in his 3rd or 4th years develops into a Anthony Davis or Giannis type big, putting up somewhere between 26 ppg, 12 reb, 1.5 blocks, 3 asst and becomes an anchor on defense too.

Will some of you "Luka Lovers" ever accept that we also got a very good All-NBA level player too in the draft or are you done with Vlade, no matter how well Bagley develops in a couple of years?

This is a serious question, I would like to know y'all opinion.

If (and that's a big if) Bagley develops into a 25/12/2/3 type of big-man that also plays great defense then of course Vlade is off the hook and he made a "good pick". Even if Luka is still a little better I think all you can ask and hope for at this point is that Bagley is close.

There is a very real chance Bagley could become that player. However there is a greater than 50% chance that he doesn't. So far he can't even stay on the court. Availability is the #1 ability of all. You then factor in that defensively he's shown nothing so far and offensively he doesn't create for others......and it's not lot looking as rosy.

Bagley has to show he can stay healthy and also improve quite a bit just to show that he can reach his highest potential. How can you compare potential and "what if" to something that already is? Luka is already playing at a near MVP level. There is no mystery anymore as to what Luka is and what he can be.

 

[The Effort Police]

I'm going to throw this out there, because big men usually take 3 to 4 years to really develop into what they ultimately will be. This will be a hypothetical question for y'all.

This assumes Luka stays steady with his current level of being a "triple double" threat every night, like a LeBron or Westbrook level player.

Considering Bagley has all the physical tools to potentially become an efficient 2 way player (good defense and offense), what if Bagley in his 3rd or 4th years develops into a Anthony Davis or Giannis type big, putting up somewhere between 26 ppg, 12 reb, 1.5 blocks, 3 asst and becomes an anchor on defense too.

Will some of you "Luka Lovers" ever accept that we also got a very good All-NBA level player too in the draft or are you done with Vlade, no matter how well Bagley develops in a couple of years?

This is a serious question, I would like to know y'all opinion.

Both of those players' best attributes that what makes them them are things that Bagley are weak at so I'm actually doubting he can go from net negative defender and playmaker to DPOY candidate or elite playmaker. It's like saying Fox will become a Steph Curry type or Buddy will become a Kyrie Irving type.

A better comparison is probably a Bosh/Stoudemire type, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, but considering what Doncic is doing... yawn.

 

[macadocious]

Welp, the Woj podcast today pretty much confirmed what I thought. They said Vlade doesn’t like Lukas dad from back in the day and thought Luka would be like him.

Sigh....

The mom raised him.

 

[SLAB]

Welp, the Woj podcast today pretty much confirmed what I thought. They said Vlade doesn’t like Lukas dad from back in the day and thought Luka would be like him.

Sigh....

The mom raised him.

#FireVlade

Seriously. My relationship with this team won’t be the same until the man is gone.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Welp, the Woj podcast today pretty much confirmed what I thought. They said Vlade doesn’t like Lukas dad from back in the day and thought Luka would be like him.

Sigh....

The mom raised him.

Again, Woj is PDA’s best friend and has run a disinformation campaign on Vlade since he got the job.

Talent development is a long term game. I’m old enough to remember when Steve Francis seemed like the runaway star from his draft class.

 

[SLAB]

Again, Woj is PDA’s best friend and has run a disinformation campaign on Vlade since he got the job.

Talent development is a long term game. I’m old enough to remember when Steve Francis seemed like the runaway star from his draft class.

Luka Doncic is no Steve Francis.

 

[VF21]

Welp, the Woj podcast today pretty much confirmed what I thought. They said Vlade doesn’t like Lukas dad from back in the day and thought Luka would be like him.

Sigh....

The mom raised him.

OMG. Got any facts to support this?

You know what, never mind. If that's what you think of Vlade, I'm not even gonna debate it any further. Carry on...with the delusional assumptions based on something said on a podcast.

 

[gunks]

I'm going to throw this out there, because big men usually take 3 to 4 years to really develop into what they ultimately will be. This will be a hypothetical question for y'all.

This assumes Luka stays steady with his current level of being a "triple double" threat every night, like a LeBron or Westbrook level player.

Considering Bagley has all the physical tools to potentially become an efficient 2 way player (good defense and offense), what if Bagley in his 3rd or 4th years develops into a Anthony Davis or Giannis type big, putting up somewhere between 26 ppg, 12 reb, 1.5 blocks, 3 asst and becomes an anchor on defense too.

Will some of you "Luka Lovers" ever accept that we also got a very good All-NBA level player too in the draft or are you done with Vlade, no matter how well Bagley develops in a couple of years?

This is a serious question, I would like to know y'all opinion.

If Bags turns into Giannis or AD, I would absolutely forgive Vlade. Alls well that ends well.

I think the chances of that happening are very slim though. And Luka is already in the MVP convo, so even if Bagley ends up on that Amare/Bosh level that a lot of pundits had him at pre draft, Vlade still looks like a moron.

We'll see what's up in 3-4 years. I'm actually rooting for Bags and would have no problem eating crow. Gonna be a tough wait though.

 

[sergmatt]

OMG. Got any facts to support this?

You know what, never mind. If that's what you think of Vlade, I'm not even gonna debate it any further. Carry on...with the delusional assumptions based on something said on a podcast.

While I agree, the alternative (and accurate) view is that Vlade just horribly misjudged Luka's talent.

 

[VF21]

While I agree, the alternative (and accurate) view is that Vlade just horribly misjudged Luka's talent.

That might well be true...and I would accept that much more than I would accept anything said by Woj at this point. As SactownExPat correctly pointed out, Woj was and is tight with Pete D'Allesandro. The disdain for Vlade is obvious.

It just saddens me how some Kings fans are so quick to jump on ANYTHING that puts Vlade in a bad light if it supports their feeling about Doncic.

 

[VF21]

If Bags turns into Giannis or AD, I would absolutely forgive Vlade. Alls well that ends well.

I think the chances of that happening are very slim though. And Luka is already in the MVP convo, so even if Bagley ends up on that Amare/Bosh level that a lot of pundits had him at pre draft, Vlade still looks like a moron.

We'll see what's up in 3-4 years. I'm actually rooting for Bags and would have no problem eating crow. Gonna be a tough wait though.

Serious question (not just for gunks but for the rest of the Doncic fans) so please don't dump on me without at least thinking about this:

What if Luka does it all, gets the MVP and yet the Mavs get blown out in the 2nd round of the WC playoffs by one of the LA teams? In the meantime, the Kings make it to the playoffs because Bagley puts it together and has a respectable showing. What would you think then?

 

[NME]

If Bags turns into Giannis or AD, I would absolutely forgive Vlade. Alls well that ends well.

I think the chances of that happening are very slim though. And Luka is already in the MVP convo, so even if Bagley ends up on that Amare/Bosh level that a lot of pundits had him at pre draft, Vlade still looks like a moron.

We'll see what's up in 3-4 years. I'm actually rooting for Bags and would have no problem eating crow. Gonna be a tough wait though.

If Bagley showed signs of becoming a defender and passer the likes of those guys, I don't think we would be so up in arms. As it stands, he needs to develop a ton to be average in either area. Heck, if he showed the passing skills and defensive activity of Giles to go with his scoring, rebounding and athleticism, I would feel a lot better.

 

[SLAB]

Serious question (not just for gunks but for the rest of the Doncic fans) so please don't dump on me without at least thinking about this:

What if Luka does it all, gets the MVP and yet the Mavs get blown out in the 2nd round of the WC playoffs by one of the LA teams? In the meantime, the Kings make it to the playoffs because Bagley puts it together and has a respectable showing. What would you think then?

If Luka gets the MVP and then get blown out in the second, Bagley just helping the Kings get there isn’t good enough. This kid was the chance to alter the franchises history... and Vlade certainly altered it.

Unless MB magically turns into AD at some point, this is never going away.

 

[sergmatt]

That might well be true...and I would accept that much more than I would accept anything said by Woj at this point. As SactownExPat correctly pointed out, Woj was and is tight with Pete D'Allesandro. The disdain for Vlade is obvious.

It just saddens me how some Kings fans are so quick to jump on ANYTHING that puts Vlade in a bad light if it supports their feeling about Doncic.

Let me preface this by saying I love Vlade the person and liked him as a player. I also think in his current role he has shown tremendous leadership. If his ability to judge players was as good as his leadership, he'd be an ideal GM/President. He's a straight shooter which is refreshing and in comparison to the last regime he's actually done a great job.

However part of his job also includes judging/drafting talent. The PapaG pick was an awful gamble but I think most could live with it because it was a weak draft and it was his first misstep.

The 2018 #2 Overall pick was arguably the most important draft pick in Kings history. Based upon how Luka is playing there is now no question that the #2 selection was the most important in Kings history.

And he got it wrong. Vlade went against general consensus and flat out blew it. As a GM if you're going to go against the grain and make a swerve pick at the top of the draft, you've gotta get it right. Simple as that.

 

[NME]

Serious question (not just for gunks but for the rest of the Doncic fans) so please don't dump on me without at least thinking about this:

What if Luka does it all, gets the MVP and yet the Mavs get blown out in the 2nd round of the WC playoffs by one of the LA teams? In the meantime, the Kings make it to the playoffs because Bagley puts it together and has a respectable showing. What would you think then?

I would always rather have the MVP player regardless of the results this year. Every single year the Mavs have him under contract, they will have an opportunity to tweak the roster and if they manage to come up with just a reasonable supporting cast they can go far.

We're in a situation where it feels like we need 17 factors to go right to have a shot at the playoffs.

 

[VF21]

If Luka gets the MVP and then get blown out in the second, Bagley just helping the Kings get there isn’t good enough. This kid was the chance to alter the franchises history... and Vlade certainly altered it.

Unless MB magically turns into AD at some point, this is never going away.

Fair enough. It's now clear to me that we have a basic conceptual difference. I'll try not to interject any more comments into this thread (no promises though). You've already written the Kings future off and I'm not willing to do that. I kind of like to watch the games, you know?

 

[VF21]

I would always rather have the MVP player regardless of the results this year. Every single year the Mavs have him under contract, they will have an opportunity to tweak the roster and if they manage to come up with just a reasonable supporting cast they can go far.

We're in a situation where it feels like we need 17 factors to go right to have a shot at the playoffs.

I keep thinking about LBJ and all the hype around him. And where did he get his first ring? It wasn't on the team that drafted him... Just sayin'.

 

[gunks]

Serious question (not just for gunks but for the rest of the Doncic fans) so please don't dump on me without at least thinking about this:

What if Luka does it all, gets the MVP and yet the Mavs get blown out in the 2nd round of the WC playoffs by one of the LA teams? In the meantime, the Kings make it to the playoffs because Bagley puts it together and has a respectable showing. What would you think then?

I don't think Luka getting blown out by one of the LA superteams would change my opinions on him. He's a multi generational super-stud. I'm watching the Mavs right now (I know, gross) and he really does it all.

Bagley helping us to the playoffs would be rad, and I'd mellow a bit. I'm a Kings fan first and foremost, but unless he blows us all away and develops into a superstar himself, I'm not giving Vlade a pass. Luka should have been the pick. Vlade got cute, just like I was afraid he would, and totally ****'d us. This franchise may not get a chance at a player like Luka for another 20-30 years. If ever.

 

[NME]

I keep thinking about LBJ and all the hype around him. And where did he get his first ring? It wasn't on the team that drafted him... Just sayin'.

The ultimate result is never guaranteed, but his team always had the chance to be in the mix by virtue of having him. That's the luxury of drafting that type of a player. The number of things you have to get right after that is greatly reduced.

 

[SLAB]

Fair enough. It's now clear to me that we have a basic conceptual difference. I'll try not to interject any more comments into this thread (no promises though). You've already written the Kings future off and I'm not willing to do that. I kind of like to watch the games, you know?

Saying I’ve written it off is a small stretch. I will say I’m as high on it as others.

The road to get where we want is just far darker, drearier, and a much rougher ahead than if we took the generational MVP caliber talent.

... That in no other situation would ever come to Sacramento.

 

[SLAB]

30/14/7 (in 28 minutes) and a 42 point WIN.

 

[NME]

30/14/7 (in 28 minutes) and a 42 point WIN.

No triple-double? BUST.

 

[sergmatt]

30/14/7 (in 28 minutes) and a 42 point WIN.

But his defense?

 

[rainmaker]

Crazy thing is his consistency. At 20. Never seen this before.

Worst game of the season was 12/4/5 in a win vs Den.

But his 2nd worst game?

26/15/7 win vs Tor?
24/14/8 win vs Mem?
27/7/7 win vs Orl?
25/10/10 win vs NO?

Those statistically are his next 4 worst games of the season.

4 of Luka's 5 worst games of the season are better than the best game of any Kings player this season.

And he's surrounded by scrubs while entire defenses focus solely on him.

 

[chief bromden]

Again, Woj is PDA’s best friend and has run a disinformation campaign on Vlade since he got the job.

Talent development is a long term game. I’m old enough to remember when Steve Francis seemed like the runaway star from his draft class.

Does it make any difference that Tim MacMahon is the one that said it on Woj's podcast? I heard it at work today, and thought it shed some light on why the Kings were so off Luka's trail from the get go. Then I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[SLAB]

This man was gift wrapped to the Kings by the NBA gods, and Vlade looked those gods right in the eye and hocked the largest loogey in Sacramento history right in their face.