[Game] Kings @ Suns, Wednesday, October 23rd - 7PT/10ET

[hrdboild]

Eh, this will never be on that level though. Does anyone honestly think Luka is gonna be a top 5 player in this league? I don’t see it

not to get off topic, but I doubt he gets much better than last year

I'm going to try really hard to stay off this topic, but I do have to say that it's remarkable how consistently this exact argument keeps being made despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Youngest ever Euroleague MVP? Eh, he's probably already maxed out his potential. Wins ROY after averaging 21, 6, and 8 despite beginning the season as a teenager? Yeah, but that's probably as good as he's ever going to be.

Okay...

EDIT...

And for the record, yes I do think top 5 player in the league is a reasonable expectation. I said it before the draft and I stick by my prediction.

And with that, I promise not to bring it up again.

Luke Walton, on the other hand, is officially a member of the Kings (for now) so I will continue to criticize him until he shows me something, anything, to change my mind. Haven't seen it yet.

 

[PHXSUNSFAN]

Honestly, the one big question I have about the Suns is what they do about Booker. They looked better without him on the floor tonight and I still have serious concerns as to whether he is the franchise player people randomly say he is.

Weird to see this on a night in which he had the best +/- on the team...+25.

He wasn’t scoring much in the beginning because he was drawing so much attention for the rest of the team to get open looks and easy buckets.

He’s drastically improved his defense too and shut down a very good player in Budddy Hield in the 2nd half.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

So are people here still pretending picking Bagley over Doncic wasn't awful? Bagley can get numbers but I'm not convinced he isn't a Julius Randle type that doesn't effect winning. Doncic on the other hand could be a top 10-15 player within the next season or two. Luka, Fox, Buddy would be a legit big three.

I'm going to try really hard to stay off this topic, but I do have to say that it's remarkable how consistently this exact argument keeps being made despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Youngest ever Euroleague MVP? Eh, he's probably already maxed out his potential. Wins ROY after averaging 21, 6, and 8 despite beginning the season as a teenager? Yeah, but that's probably as good as he's ever going to be.

Okay...

this may be the 1000th time this has been copied and pasted on this board. Specifically after every bad Bagley game. We just know these posts magically disappear when Bagley gets his 20/10 games

 

[Sam0ah]

We missed Harry tonight. He would of at least got the ball moving.

 

[Tetsujin]

this may be the 1000th time this has been copied and pasted on this board. Specifically after every bad Bagley game. We just know these posts magically disappear when Bagley gets his 20/10 games

I seem to remember having this exact conversation after Joerger effectively benched Bagley in the first game of the season last year lol

 

[dvirc218]

this is disappointing af, but we shouldn't get too carried away in the moment.

 

[The_Jamal]

Biggest L of the night is Walton though. Fox and Buddy coming up lame at the end of a game in a garbage time blow-out is bad. Team couldn't handle the Suns AT ALL when they punched back, something we were so good at last season. Rotations were a disaster.

He and the FO have no room for error and need to bounce back right away. You fired a coach who led us to a 12 win improvement from the season before without any real depth on the squad. They don't get a "figure things out" period.

 

[Amiga]

Why were we playing so damn slow??

 

[Tetsujin]

Weird to see this on a night in which he had the best +/- on the team...+25.

He wasn’t scoring much in the beginning because he was drawing so much attention for the rest of the team to get open looks and easy buckets.

He’s drastically improved his defense too and shut down a very good player in Budddy Hield in the 2nd half.

Plus minus is perhaps the dumbest stats in the history of stats since it's so predicated on so many circumstances out of the player's control. The Suns made a lot of their run in the second half with him off the floor and he didn't shut down Buddy so much as the Kings couldn't stop turning the ball over before Buddy had a chance to shoot.

 

[hrdboild]

this may be the 1000th time this has been copied and pasted on this board. Specifically after every bad Bagley game. We just know these posts magically disappear when Bagley gets his 20/10 games

I don't know why you included me. I didn't say anything about Bagley (who looked okay in this game, he just didn't get many opportunities within the flow of our so-called offense). I was only responding to someone else's comment.

 

[Tetsujin]

Biggest L of the night is Walton though. Fox and Buddy coming up lame at the end of a game in a garbage time blow-out is bad. Team couldn't handle the Suns AT ALL when they punched back, something we were so good at last season. Rotations were a disaster.

He and the FO have no room for error and need to bounce back right away. You fired a coach who led us to a 12 win improvement from the season before without any real depth on the squad.

To be fair, you also fired a guy who was actively waging war on the front office, was largely disliked by the guys on his team, and who promptly forgot how to coach the second Vlade went out and got him actual depth on his roster.

 

[SacTownKid]

Playing defense doesn't mean slowing down the offense. It means playing defense. Not only do they have tighten up the D considerably, there has to be some serious talk about role definition on this team. The dribble act has got to stop, except for those who actually know how to dribble.

It's largely focus though. They aren't solidified enough offensively to be one of those teams that drills defense, defense, defense. That comes with the development but tonight they got caught with their pants down on offense as much as anything. Preparedness surely factored in with that.

 

[tastyburger]

Why were we playing so damn slow??

I found myself yelling that at the screen. And yet even playing slow we looked out of control...

 

[SacTownKid]

Might help if you play that rim-protecting floor spacing Center more than 14 minutes.

If they are going to sit him in the paint or expect him to be Amare in pick and roll he'll hurt you more than help you as evidenced tonight. Playing him as that floor spacer and not a rim attack paint big is the key there.

 

[John Galt]

I don't know why you included me. I didn't say anything about Bagley (who looked okay in this game, he just didn't get many opportunities within the flow of our so-called offense). I was only responding to someone else's comment.

Bagley looked ok to you? I can’t think of anything he did well. Boy against men. A tall skinny boy against men

 

[SacTownKid]

Kings still don't play D. I rather them play a different style of D like switching defense than getting killed constantly in pick n roll. It's just terrible.

They did a little bit of that at times but they will certainly have to find an identity there. The Kings FINALLY have some size on the wing yet, they played more than a few 3 guard lineups instead. That was a bit frustrating to watch.

 

[Tetsujin]

If they are going to sit him in the paint or expect him to be Amare in pick and roll he'll hurt you more than help you as evidenced tonight. Playing him as that floor spacer and not a rim attack paint big is the key there.

And the really weird thing is that we played him as a floor spacer all preseason only to stop doing that tonight.

 

[Kangztillidie]

Fox needs to stop fouling...jeez

4 fouls early in the 4th is what did them in. Crazy but he impacts the game so much it changed from that point when he went out.

 

[hrdboild]

To be fair, you also fired a guy who was actively waging war on the front office, was largely disliked by the guys on his team, and who promptly forgot how to coach the second Vlade went out and got him actual depth on his roster.

I agree with this post to a point. Coach Joerger appeared to write his own ticket out of town with hi attitude last season. I also think it's fair to point out that coaches feuding with the front office have been a mainstay for the entire tenure of Vivek's run as the face of the King's ownership group. At some point, if the same problems keep resurfacing despite numerous personnel changes and 100% roster turnover, the arrow has to point to the guy in charge does it not?

 

[SacTownKid]

And the really weird thing is that we played him as a floor spacer all preseason only to stop doing that tonight.

The first two games in India they ran high post through him. Oddly enough, the Kings got waxed there too. haha.

 

[Kangztillidie]

Its time to sit Fox for a good chunk of time to protect the foul trouble

Naw he has to learn to play through it

 

[Tetsujin]

I agree with this post to a point. Coach Joerger appeared to write his own ticket out of town with hi attitude last season. I also think it's fair to point out that coaches feuding with the front office have been a mainstay for the entire tenure of Vivek's run as the face of the King's ownership group. At some point, if the same problems keep resurfacing despite numerous personnel changes and 100% roster turnover, the arrow has to point to the guy in charge does it not?

I'd agree with you were it not for the fact that Joerger pulled the exact same maneuver in Memphis.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

I don't know why you included me. I didn't say anything about Bagley (who looked okay in this game, he just didn't get many opportunities within the flow of our so-called offense). I was only responding to someone else's comment.

I was responding to the Doncic comments that permeate this board. We get it, he’s a very good player. Should we have selected him over Bagley? Maybe, but who cares. We didn’t and we still have a good young player in Bagley who has huge potential. A bunch of people are making this out like we selected Sam Bowie over Jordan, Trubisky over Mahomes. Way too early to tell. Now this point next year if Bagley hasn’t made strides, then we should definitely get all over the front office

 

[Kangztillidie]

Fox is playing terrible. Such a dumb foul.

Fox was playing so terrible the Kings had the momentum and the lead when he picked up his 4th (he needs to learn not to foul as he is too important). In fact, he was playing so bad they lost the lead and momentum once he went out... lol

 

[Kangztillidie]

Biggest L of the night is Walton though. Fox and Buddy coming up lame at the end of a game in a garbage time blow-out is bad. Team couldn't handle the Suns AT ALL when they punched back, something we were so good at last season. Rotations were a disaster.

He and the FO have no room for error and need to bounce back right away. You fired a coach who led us to a 12 win improvement from the season before without any real depth on the squad. They don't get a "figure things out" period.

How many games did Joeger win after 1 game into last season? I thought so...

 

[kingsboi]

that was one poop of a game. I should of just stayed home. Only player that showed up was Hield. Kings got punished in the paint, it was child's play. The turnovers did them in, Suns had 30+ points off their turnovers. Ball game. Fox and Bagley simply need to do more, no excuses.

 

[mac]

I was responding to the Doncic comments that permeate this board. We get it, he’s a very good player. Should we have selected him over Bagley? Maybe, but who cares. We didn’t and we still have a good young player in Bagley who has huge potential. A bunch of people are making this out like we selected Sam Bowie over Jordan, Trubisky over Mahomes. Way too early to tell. Now this point next year if Bagley hasn’t made strides, then we should definitely get all over the front office

Just keep that in mind next time people are advocating getting rid of Buddy Hield just because we have Fox and Bagley

Honestly I have not been impressed with Fox so far this very early season (including preseason). Has not looked like a composed floor general or scorer for that matter. Kinda just haphazardly driving into the lane looking to get fouled or kick the ball out, which I don't think is a great idea for someone with his frame. Like I said in preseason, if that's all he's going to do I'll take Tyreke Evans back.

 

[hrdboild]

Bagley looked ok to you? I can’t think of anything he did well. Boy against men. A tall skinny boy against men

Hield is the only guy who looked good for us tonight. Barnes made a couple nice shots but they were forces that went in. I liked Corey Joseph's defensive fundamentals. I can't remember the last time a member of the Kings actually got down in a defensive stance! Seeing that shook me a little -- in a good way. Wanna take bets on how many games that lasts before all the confused looks which seem to say "this is Sacramento homie, we don't do that around here" shake him out of his old Popovich/Casey/McMillan habits?

But as regards Bagley, yeah I was sortof mixed on his play tonight. His energy and effort are obvious. He beats guys to the ball. He can also create good looks for himself but wasn't making enough of them tonight. He needs more counter-moves and he needs to slow down a little and stop rushing things, especially when he's already got his man beat and just needs to square up the basket and knock it down. These are young player mistakes though. I'm not going to fault him for going one-one-one when that's essentially what everyone in a Kings uniform was doing tonight. He's a skinny PF being asked to play C defensively and the results there have been about as expected but I can't fault him for the positional mismatch either. That's not his decision and he was competing out there despite being over matched physically. And in any case, I've long since learned to separate his performance from the guy we could have drafted instead. Yes I'm still mad about it but we also can't undo it so I'm choosing not to look at it that way anymore.

 

[Kangztillidie]

Just keep that in mind next time people are advocating getting rid of Buddy Hield just because we have Fox and Bagley

Honestly I have not been impressed with Fox so far this very early season (including preseason). Has not looked like a composed floor general or scorer for that matter. Kinda just haphazardly driving into the lane looking to get fouled or kick the ball out, which I don't think is a great idea for someone with his frame. Like I said in preseason, if that's all he's going to do I'll take Tyreke Evans back.

Dude the Kings had the lead and the momentum when Fox had to sit. What?

 

[PHXSUNSFAN]

Plus minus is perhaps the dumbest stats in the history of stats since it's so predicated on so many circumstances out of the player's control. The Suns made a lot of their run in the second half with him off the floor and he didn't shut down Buddy so much as the Kings couldn't stop turning the ball over before Buddy had a chance to shoot.

Most advanced metrics are based off at least in part to +/- so it can't be that bad.

Booker was a +15 in the second half alone. Again, you underestimate his mere presence makes. I was specifically looking at Booker off ball during this game to see how his role changes in Monty Williams system and Booker drew a ton of attention and sometimes even double teams while off the ball.

Ayton was probably the #1 beneficiary of this as Kings players wouldn't leave Booker to clog the lane in the Rubio/Ayton pick and rolls.