Kings extend QO to Willie Cauley-Stein

R

regularkingsfan

G-League
#211
#211
Kingster said:
If Willie isn't swinging at the ball on defense, I just wonder what Green is going to say to him?:) The irony of irony for me is that WCS said if he wasn't going to be starting, then he'd definitely have to be with a winner. It's very possible the Warriors are not going to be a winning team next year, at least not a playoff team. WCS would then be a bench guy on a losing team. What then, WCS?

Also, the word talent is thrown around without definition. Usually it's associated with physical attributes - speed, jumping, agility, etc. I think the "fit" has far less importance in Divac's decision than competitive desire. When it comes to the "inconsistency" of WCS, it's more of an inconsistency of effort. I do agree, however, that Dedmond's basketball skills are more complementary to the Kings than WCS. The complementary fit of Dedmond is gravy.
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WCS is likely the starter, which may be one of the reasons he chose to be with the Warriors. They always like to start a big center and he is the biggest they have right now. Even washed-up Bogut got the start over 6'9" Looney.

Another the reason he chose the Warriors is that they are going to run a lot of PnR this season, which would feature Russell and WCS. Russel is a more natural PnR ball handler than Fox because he has a good step back 3pt shot. That would warp the defense toward Russel and free up WCS.

The Warriors have enough talent to make playoff (perhaps lower seed) barring an injury to Curry or Green. WCS is betting on himself that he would be a starter and a part of the core rotation that would bring the Warriors to playoff.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#212
#212
regularkingsfan said:
WCS is likely the starter, which may be one of the reasons he chose to be with the Warriors. They always like to start a big center and he is the biggest they have right now. Even washed-up Bogut got the start over 6'9" Looney.

Another the reason he chose the Warriors is that they are going to run a lot of PnR this season, which would feature Russell and WCS. Russel is a more natural PnR ball handler than Fox because he has a good step back 3pt shot. That would warp the defense toward Russel and free up WCS.

The Warriors have enough talent to make playoff (perhaps lower seed) barring an injury to Curry or Green. WCS is betting on himself that he would be a starter and a part of the core rotation that would bring the Warriors to playoff.
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Thought it's already been established that he will back up Looney
 
Reverend

Reverend

Bench
#213
#213
mac said:
Thought it's already been established that he will back up Looney
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Yeah this loser doesn’t deserve to start on a fringe play off team like ours, hard to envision a scenario where he plays big minutes for a team with championship aspirations with the effort he gives. Good riddance once and for all
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#221
#221
kingsfan1984 said:
To clarify, think he said since "BEFORE" he was drafted.
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I suppose there is a subtle distinction but that wasn't the point I was trying to highlight so much as it's apparently evident the guy hasn't gotten the message that his most desirable skill set is at the other end of the floor.
 
chief bromden

chief bromden

Starter
#227
#227
King Baller said:
This conversation with Draymond is what I am waiting to see. If WCS strolls through a game on half effort DG will get in his face fast!
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If this happens, I really hope that Draymond refers to the new DRAYMOND 538-stat... "Yo Trill, what's up with your negative DRAYMONDs?" ::::draymondlowblowkick:::: What's really trill!?!?"
 
RichieInRocklin

RichieInRocklin

G-League
#228
#228
I hope the best for WCS, but as far as all the former Kings, my focus is with the current players. However, with WCS, I must comment that I think that he is going to need a psycologist, not a Green yelling at him to get him focused on what his abilities really are. I wish him the best, except when the Kings play the Warriors and then I hope he disappears into the woodwork!!!

Go Kings!!!
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#229
#229
RichieInRocklin said:
I hope the best for WCS, but as far as all the former Kings, my focus is with the current players. However, with WCS, I must comment that I think that he is going to need a psycologist, not a Green yelling at him to get him focused on what his abilities really are. I wish him the best, except when the Kings play the Warriors and then I hope he disappears into the woodwork!!!

Go Kings!!!
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He’ll have one great game, one awful game, and two where he simply exists. It’s the Willie way.
 
B

burekijogurt

Starter
#230
#230
good article in the Athletic

amongst other things WCS talkes about contesting drives and blocks, and confirms what I have been arguing that our bad perimeter defense had a lot to do with it.

are we allowed to post excerpts?
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#231
#231
burekijogurt said:
good article in the Athletic

amongst other things WCS talkes about contesting drives and blocks, and confirms what I have been arguing that our bad perimeter defense had a lot to do with it.

are we allowed to post excerpts?
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I'm sorry but this is revisionist history. Nobody is upset that he hedged hard or didn't hard roll to a PG that beat our guards off the dribble (although, that is sorta the job) we saw way too many times where his man, either the one he was directly guarding or he got switched onto shot near the rim with no hand up. It's not even about the blocked shot numbers, it's about the contests. He wasn't doing it. He can have all the reasoning in the world, but when the team is saying "Hey Willie do this", and he admits to not doing it for whatever reason he has, that is a problem.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#233
#233
I don’t really care what Willie has to say now. He had 2 years to show it. Words mean nothing in this league as his brand new bagz contract shows. If he was worth a bigger contract he would have got it. We are going to be better simply based on him not being here. It’s going to be awesome. Dedmon averages 2.5 rebounds more per 36 and at the very least will try harder. Can’t go wrong with that as far as I’m concerned. We have a hard time letting players go and seeing them for what they are. Willie is not a good player and cost us games with his lack of effort.
 
B

burekijogurt

Starter
#234
#234
macadocious said:
I'm sorry but this is revisionist history. Nobody is upset that he hedged hard or didn't hard roll to a PG that beat our guards off the dribble (although, that is sorta the job) we saw way too many times where his man, either the one he was directly guarding or he got switched onto shot near the rim with no hand up. It's not even about the blocked shot numbers, it's about the contests. He wasn't doing it. He can have all the reasoning in the world, but when the team is saying "Hey Willie do this", and he admits to not doing it for whatever reason he has, that is a problem.
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i did not see this in his game but i understand im in the minority.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#235
#235
macadocious said:
I'm sorry but this is revisionist history. Nobody is upset that he hedged hard or didn't hard roll to a PG that beat our guards off the dribble (although, that is sorta the job) we saw way too many times where his man, either the one he was directly guarding or he got switched onto shot near the rim with no hand up. It's not even about the blocked shot numbers, it's about the contests. He wasn't doing it. He can have all the reasoning in the world, but when the team is saying "Hey Willie do this", and he admits to not doing it for whatever reason he has, that is a problem.
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To be honest, I don't like these conversations where everyone beats up on a player after he's gone. The only fact that matters is that he's gone. However, during last season I used one game to count how many times "Willie left his man to stop the ball, and got back to his man, or as you call it, hard rolled to a PG. He did it something like 15 times in that game. The problem Willie had was that when he left his man, no one (in many cases Bjelica) switched to cover his man. As a result, Willie either got blamed for not defending his man, or he got blamed for not stopping the ball. It was a lose/lose situation.

By no means am I saying Willie was perfect. He got caught ball watching at times and made his switch too late, or responded to a loose ball too late. Everything is relative. A lot of people expected Willie to be the next coming of Mutumbo and those expectations weren't realistic. But Willie was and is a far better defender than people on this forum a giving him credit for. JT held down the PF position and occasionally the center position for around 7 years, and Willie is a far better rebounder and defender than JT.

The truth is, our perimeter defense wasn't very good, and Willie was the last line of defense. As a result, he gets the blame for everyone else's mistakes. When one of our wings gets beat off the dribble, no one blames them, but they blame Willie if he doesn't stop them. All I'm saying is that there was plenty of blame to go around.
 
C

Cojc

Bench
#236
#236
I mostly thought our week interior defense was more on the coach. But when you are depending on your center to do a few things really well and that persons numbers over the course of a season rank towards the bottom of his position in the league thats more telling than his excuses.
 
NewArena

NewArena

All-Star
#237
#237
bajaden said:
To be honest, I don't like these conversations where everyone beats up on a player after he's gone. The only fact that matters is that he's gone. However, during last season I used one game to count how many times "Willie left his man to stop the ball, and got back to his man, or as you call it, hard rolled to a PG. He did it something like 15 times in that game. The problem Willie had was that when he left his man, no one (in many cases Bjelica) switched to cover his man. As a result, Willie either got blamed for not defending his man, or he got blamed for not stopping the ball. It was a lose/lose situation.

By no means am I saying Willie was perfect. He got caught ball watching at times and made his switch too late, or responded to a loose ball too late. Everything is relative. A lot of people expected Willie to be the next coming of Mutumbo and those expectations weren't realistic. But Willie was and is a far better defender than people on this forum a giving him credit for. JT held down the PF position and occasionally the center position for around 7 years, and Willie is a far better rebounder and defender than JT.

The truth is, our perimeter defense wasn't very good, and Willie was the last line of defense. As a result, he gets the blame for everyone else's mistakes. When one of our wings gets beat off the dribble, no one blames them, but they blame Willie if he doesn't stop them. All I'm saying is that there was plenty of blame to go around.
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meh, Willie has a list of faults outside of defensive lapses.

i wish that were the only issue. The fact he owned up to NOTHING, further confirmed everything most of us already thought about him. just yuck. The nerve of him to have an ego this size
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#238
#238
Willie had 6 more blocks on the year than Fox.

Bjelica had 5 more blocks than Willie despite playing about 450 minutes less. Bjelica spent more time defending the perimeter than Willie did.

People give Willie way too much of a pass for averaging .6 blocks a game. He simply did not defend the rim when needed. What's the point in being 7ft tall with one of the longest wingspans in the game if all you're doing is switching on the perimeter to defend like a wing? There's a ton of players out there that can do that.

I'm not even a proponent of lots of blocks = good defense but a guy with Willie's measurements and athleticism should never be averaging less than a block a game. He should be among the league leaders in blocks every year. I don't like hearing the excuse that he couldn't defend the rim because he was making up for the Kings terrible perimeter defense because the perimeter defense wasn't even that bad last year. Fox, Shump/Barnes and Beli are all average to above average defenders with Buddy being the only below average defender. The excuse doesn't hold water for me.

He simply didn't defend the rim because he didn't put in the effort when the situations arose. He should have been a weak side block master at minimum but how often did you guys see WCS getting big weak side blocks? Almost never. Seemed like the majority were strong side when a smaller player would try and turn the corner around him and he'd get a hand on it.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#239
#239
It wasn’t even the lack of blocks that drove me nuts: so often you’d see Willie with his hands down making minimal effort to even contest or alter shots.

It really dawned on me after a random game where I watched JaVale McGee. He was completely hyperactive. Jumping and bouncing and swinging after everything around the rim no matter what. It was a level of effort and enthusiasm I had never ever seen from Willie. And at that point I realized I was completely done with him.

If Willie put that same amount of effort into the game JaVale does, he’d have his Bags right now. Probably from us. But alas, here we are.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#240
#240
I've said time and time again - the argument that WCS ' value is as a perimeter defender and that his role in doing so causes him to be a poor interior one runs into two issues. First, do you really need a big with more perimeter defense than interior defense? Second, are you ready to accuse Fox, Buddy, Shump, Barnes of being bad perimeter defenders (and necessarily worse than most other teams given how bad WCS at rebounding and contesting inside shots compared to other bugs)? It's always easy to say "Kings guards", but not own up to it referring to Fox (who at the same time is praised for his defense).
 
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