Grade the Kings draft
- Thread starter Iced Espresso
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There is a really good article in The Athletic on why he drafted these guys irregardless of positional need. In a nutshell, he drafted these guys as the best fits and best talent within their culture and what they want to do on the floor.
It seems he sees James as a fit with Bogi and probably Giles as another ball handler where Giles can run the offense through him......just speculating here......also sees Guy as a SG at least right now. Of course, it’s up to these guys to prove they belong. Make no mistake though, there is absolutely a plan in place.
It seems he sees James as a fit with Bogi and probably Giles as another ball handler where Giles can run the offense through him......just speculating here......also sees Guy as a SG at least right now. Of course, it’s up to these guys to prove they belong. Make no mistake though, there is absolutely a plan in place.
My memory’s may be hazy, and I’m going off on recall here, but Vlade turned the draft pick in the year of the Papa pick into multiple assets including Bogi. Then he traded, next year’s pick at 10 into 2 later picks which became JJ and Giles. JJ and Zbo then became Barnes. Seems he knows how to turn assets into multiple assets. For this draft, he picked the guys he wanted and in fact did move down slightly and got a later pick and cash and still got his pick in Guy.
I gave the draft a B, and that's a better grade than I would have given on draft night. I had not expected us to pursue three guards, even if all are 2nd round picks and even if one of them is - possibly - a flyer.
But after thinking about it, I think our draft picks were not bad at all. It smells like the three they picked were on their list, along with who knows how many others who were picked ahead of us.
So this summer and possibly in training camp, we'll have (among others) James and Guy, who are both guards, but are very different types of players. James looks like a possible 1-3 combo player - if he can get stronger, and if he survives. Guy seems like a Seth Curry type player - if he can get stronger, and if he survives. Marinkovic should stay in Europe for another season (at least). But he has 2/3 potential - if he develops his body as well as his game.
Sure, there were players on my list that we passed on. That's annoying. But that's also to be expected. Except for the know-it-alls who always come to believe they see all and know best.
But after thinking about it, I think our draft picks were not bad at all. It smells like the three they picked were on their list, along with who knows how many others who were picked ahead of us.
So this summer and possibly in training camp, we'll have (among others) James and Guy, who are both guards, but are very different types of players. James looks like a possible 1-3 combo player - if he can get stronger, and if he survives. Guy seems like a Seth Curry type player - if he can get stronger, and if he survives. Marinkovic should stay in Europe for another season (at least). But he has 2/3 potential - if he develops his body as well as his game.
Sure, there were players on my list that we passed on. That's annoying. But that's also to be expected. Except for the know-it-alls who always come to believe they see all and know best.
This is just a dumb comment. You and 85 act like it’s a black box and it is far from one.
Teams know who was requested to go to the combine. Teams know what players are working out for whom. Teams talk to agents all the time who provide significant amounts of intelligence. I told you last year the Kings were going to draft Bagley a week before the draft. Not because I searched the Internet harder. But because NBA teams already had a good idea what would happen. Can you say with absolute certainty James would not have been drafted, of course not but it was a very low probability.
Teams know who was requested to go to the combine. Teams know what players are working out for whom. Teams talk to agents all the time who provide significant amounts of intelligence. I told you last year the Kings were going to draft Bagley a week before the draft. Not because I searched the Internet harder. But because NBA teams already had a good idea what would happen. Can you say with absolute certainty James would not have been drafted, of course not but it was a very low probability.
In the Papa G draft? I had no problems with moving down then. The Kings were clearly on the outside looking in on a 6 player lottery. I really wanted Buddy but they eventually got him I guess. All in all I don't think you can look back at drafts and cherry pick talent that ended up better either since where a players lands has as much to do with their success as it does the teams. I do think when you have no way to fit who you did get it just increases, if not guarantees their inability to succeed. People made fun of the Kings 5 center possibilities back then and surprise, it didn't work out. The only moves I've seen Vlade make that made sense on paper were his fallback options last summer in Yogi and Bjelica. Amazing how it's also the first time the team made some degree of sense on the floor too. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I read another article in the Athletic, where Jason Jones interviewed James. James said he worked out for 11 teams and he personally thought that 4 of his workouts were extremely good including his workout with Sacramento. Said Sacramento was one of the teams that took the time to ask him questions and try to get to know him.
Seems to me the Kings had to have known he worked out for 11 teams and after their workout with him and his showing in Portsmouth including his testing results AND the Kings believe he can play both guard spots in the NBA (if he can play some PG at 6’7”, hell yes) AND the Kings feel like he fits this culture......why risk not taking him at 40 if he is your guy. Makes no sense to pass at that point.
Also read that the Warriors sold pick 58 to Utah for cash. Seems like a common move, no?
Seems to me the Kings had to have known he worked out for 11 teams and after their workout with him and his showing in Portsmouth including his testing results AND the Kings believe he can play both guard spots in the NBA (if he can play some PG at 6’7”, hell yes) AND the Kings feel like he fits this culture......why risk not taking him at 40 if he is your guy. Makes no sense to pass at that point.
Also read that the Warriors sold pick 58 to Utah for cash. Seems like a common move, no?
This thread is honestly really interesting. There's a small contingent here who really understands asset management, risk tolerance, maximizing your opportunities, process over results and why the Kings utterly failed in all those aspects. And then everyone else who couldn't care less about those principles and just trusts Vlade did the right thing because "he must know more" than we do.
It is interesting, indeed
There's a small contingent that suffer from a Lavar Ball-esque delusion of grandeur wherein their perceived knowledge and abilities greatly exceed reality. Like all narcissistic personality types, it's always easier and far more preferrable to mock others for not seeing their greatness than it is to admit that it really doesn't exist.
As you were.
There's a small contingent that suffer from a Lavar Ball-esque delusion of grandeur wherein their perceived knowledge and abilities greatly exceed reality. Like all narcissistic personality types, it's always easier and far more preferrable to mock others for not seeing their greatness than it is to admit that it really doesn't exist.
As you were.
EH. I'm done trying to talk sense to these people. I don't disparage their opinions at all. They are entitled to them just like everyone else. In some cases, I don't even really disagree.
I really only take issue with 2 tactics regarding any opinion. Making blanket statements without providing solid reasoning or factual evidence to support it and/or positioning hearsay & supposition as truth or fact. IMO, there's far too much of that going around in these draft threads.
If these people were a bit more humble in stating that 'it's their gut feeling' that A, B and C might be true because of X, Y, and Z, I could accept and take that in stride despite not agreeing with it at all. But when it's pushed and positioned as truth then defended with contempt & an aura of superiority when someone has the audacity to offer up a challenge -- that's where I find it difficult not to respond.
I really need to work on that.
I really only take issue with 2 tactics regarding any opinion. Making blanket statements without providing solid reasoning or factual evidence to support it and/or positioning hearsay & supposition as truth or fact. IMO, there's far too much of that going around in these draft threads.
If these people were a bit more humble in stating that 'it's their gut feeling' that A, B and C might be true because of X, Y, and Z, I could accept and take that in stride despite not agreeing with it at all. But when it's pushed and positioned as truth then defended with contempt & an aura of superiority when someone has the audacity to offer up a challenge -- that's where I find it difficult not to respond.
I really need to work on that.
Wrong. The point I have been trying to make is that your "asset managers" are foolish in thinking that they see the complete picture when few, if any, do. And reading up the internet doesn't give you knowledge; it gives you information - some good and some bad and some intentionally misleading. I don't put my faith in Vlade. He's completely capable of making mistakes of all proportions. But Kingsfans posters who always know and see the "facts" that support their biases are... fallible.
FWIW, I just realized that I never got around to providing a draft grade.
I always find it difficult to evaluate drafts because it usually takes a couple seasons to really know anything about a player. But just based on where they were drafting and that they seemingly got the players they wanted (as far as any of us know), I'd at least give it a firm 'C'. Not bad, not great -- yet. We just don't know enough.
We'll see how things progress with these players from SL through camp then throughout their rookie season. Even if one or more of these guys don't crack the roster and/or are cut doesn't mean it was a bad draft. As has been stated numerous times by many, 2nd rounders are long shots as it is. And with the KINGS having a lot more talent now than in recent years, it's that much harder for a player to stick.
Now if any of these 2nd rounders stick and manage to make a positive contribution -- it clearly becomes an 'A' draft.
I always find it difficult to evaluate drafts because it usually takes a couple seasons to really know anything about a player. But just based on where they were drafting and that they seemingly got the players they wanted (as far as any of us know), I'd at least give it a firm 'C'. Not bad, not great -- yet. We just don't know enough.
We'll see how things progress with these players from SL through camp then throughout their rookie season. Even if one or more of these guys don't crack the roster and/or are cut doesn't mean it was a bad draft. As has been stated numerous times by many, 2nd rounders are long shots as it is. And with the KINGS having a lot more talent now than in recent years, it's that much harder for a player to stick.
Now if any of these 2nd rounders stick and manage to make a positive contribution -- it clearly becomes an 'A' draft.
After reading a lot of your comments, I think I've come to a conclusion. I believe Vlade was drafting to strengthen the bench. I don't believe he was looking for starter material as I believe he's already got that plotted out (pending success in FA acquisitions). From all indications, our 3 draft picks are character players who will mesh well and add to the overall strength of the team. Is that what that they should have done? I know a lot of you will disagree, but I think we're seeing a different approach to this whole team building concept. Will it succeed? Time will tell - but until then we've certainly got a lot to talk about. 
But you, sir, clearly just don't understand asset management.
In all seriousness, I think you've captured the essence of it completely. Of course, that's just my biased opinion.
In all seriousness, I think you've captured the essence of it completely. Of course, that's just my biased opinion.
At the time he was falling further and further down, I did too. I was actually miffed when he fell to GSW, as I thought they might take him since they can afford the risk. But once they passed (really should have known they'd go with a shooter) and he continued to fall, I was ok with the KINGS bypassing too.
I mean, if the KINGS end up being wrong about him -- they'll be far from the only ones in that boat. I trust that all of these teams had good reason (for them) to go in another direction.
I mean, if the KINGS end up being wrong about him -- they'll be far from the only ones in that boat. I trust that all of these teams had good reason (for them) to go in another direction.