Grade the Kings draft

[Chupacabra]

I don't mind having James; He has a very nice skillset and size. If any 2nd rounder can stick in the league and be productive then the pick is a win. We only had 2nd round picks this year. With that being said, If we both reached to pick James and passed on Bol at the same time then a D is the best grade that I can give.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I don't understand why everyone didn't jump at the T.J Warren trade +pick 32 for nothing. We were perfectly suited too to send them back some future 2nds and give them a better deal than they got from the Pacers. But, once again, mismanagement of assets thinking we'll actually be players in the Free Agency class. Vlade has missed several opportunities like this (DeMarre Carrol trade) where we take on contracts for picks in the past. It's something every small-market team should constantly be looking to do.

I’ve called for the Kings these types of trades in the past, but my unscientific observation is that they’ve become more rare as teams have gotten smarter. Now, we saw a couple go down on draft night. Should the Kings have been involved?

I like Warren as a player and not just as a contract with a pick attached. But, when you account for Barnes’s $32 million cap hold, taking on Warren’s $12 million actually does impact the team’s ability to address higher needs like starting big and backup guard. (No room to take on Adams’s contract should he come available, for example). Unfortunately they have to resolve the Barnes contract before they have more flexibility it seems, and the contract wasn’t resolved before the draft.

 

[sactowndog]

You have no way of knowing many of the things you’ve positioned as fact regarding this draft. But that hasn’t stopped you to this point. Why draw the line here?

You’re still clinging to the notion that James is a big reach, even bigger than Papa G despite numerous people providing solid reasoning why that’s not a logical conclusion. The simplest, easiest factor to grasp is one player was #13 and the other was #40 in a sport where 1st rounders, specifically lottery picks, are typically expected to stick and 2nd rounders aren’t — yet here you are digging a deeper hole.

And you have no evidence James would have been picked. Want to tell me the teams he worked out for? Can you name one? I can tell you one team he worked out for last year, he was so un-memorable that a person who participated in running the workouts didn’t remember who he was.

That doesn’t mean he will be good or bad but it’s still a very low probability he would have been drafted.

 

[Iced Espresso]

To be fair, I haven't seen any reports on how much cash we got from the Knicks to move down, but there's a decent chance it was enough to buy a second rounder in a future draft if we want to. I mean, the only difference between a scenario you would not complain about and a scenario that you kind of are complaining about is the difference between a future second rounder and cash. And, for all we know, the amount of cash we got is actually interconvertible with a future second rounder.

LOL

I'm not convinced that the cash considerations are going to be used in a future draft at all. I'd be willing to eat my keyboard if that was the case. And I was being friendly in my criticisms as well.

I'm looking at the Dallas trade now as an example.

Trade the 37th, for the 45th, and two future seconds. That sure seems to me like attempting to get every asset you can or be willing to spend as much as you can to improve the team.

Trading back for cash, seems cheap to me. Like not buying your 12 dollar Heineken.

How am I supposed to grade cash considerations? Well maybe they buy a pick another draft? Yeah right.

 

[whozit]

LOL

I'm not convinced that the cash considerations are going to be used in a future draft at all. I'd be willing to eat my keyboard if that was the case. And I was being friendly in my criticisms as well.

I'm looking at the Dallas trade now as an example.

Trade the 37th, for the 45th, and two future seconds. That sure seems to me like attempting to get every asset you can or be willing to spend as much as you can to improve the team.

Trading back for cash, seems cheap to me. Like not buying your 12 dollar Heineken.

How am I supposed to grade cash considerations? Well maybe they buy a pick another draft? Yeah right.

I will give you this, cash considerations make me nervous. They should've called the cap on cash considerations the Maloof rule. The one thing that eases that fear is some of the contracts given that have been matched but were those just to reach the floor. Time will tell.

 

[whozit]

And you have no evidence James would have been picked. Want to tell me the teams he worked out for? Can you name one? I can tell you one team he worked out for last year, he was so un-memorable that a person who participated in running the workouts didn’t remember who he was.

That doesn’t mean he will be good or bad but it’s still a very low probability he would have been drafted.

You earlier indicated that the old man still wasn't learning lessons from mistakes. That is one thing I would give him credit for, he seems to recognize missteps (or mistakes) and take steps to rectify them.

I like cats but the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin them. It sounds like he went in looking for players that fit the traits that he was looking for. And if you don't fit that mold.... Is that too close to drafting for need rather than BPA, I don't know. In the second round, does it matter?

 

[kingdivac]

I don't mind having James; He has a very nice skillset and size. If any 2nd rounder can stick in the league and be productive then the pick is a win. We only had 2nd round picks this year. With that being said, If we both reached to pick James and passed on Bol at the same time then a D is the best grade that I can give.

I understand there were rumors on Bol having a degenerative knee....I can understand unfortunately why they passed - the uncertainty.

 

[AleksandarN]

But the “Next best available” was once considered a lottery pick. It’s not like he didn’t pick Joe Schmoe #37.

As unlikely as it is because of medical red flags, the most talented dude was Bol Bol. In the second round you take that gifted lottery ticket.

Tell that to the professional scouts that didn’t draft him before the kings. I bet they know more about the player than some internet people on a message board.

 

[AleksandarN]

Seems they are right about Papa

It seems like they wrong about 80 percent of that draft. Because that was one of the weakest drafts ever. How is Chris’s doing btw?

 

[Telemachus]

Depends on the draft. In this draft, the group of players seen as possible role players was a deep group extending into the 40’s. That fact made the James pick a bigger reach

Funny, most of the draft guys I listen to felt that this draft leveled off in the 20s to about 100. They felt there would be a lot of guys who made rosters in the 2nd round & went undrafted. It boiled down to need & the eye of the beholder.

 

[sactowndog]

You earlier indicated that the old man still wasn't learning lessons from mistakes. That is one thing I would give him credit for, he seems to recognize missteps (or mistakes) and take steps to rectify them.

I like cats but the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin them. It sounds like he went in looking for players that fit the traits that he was looking for. And if you don't fit that mold.... Is that too close to drafting for need rather than BPA, I don't know. In the second round, does it matter?

Again the question isn’t whether James is a fit or could be good. The question is why use a draft pick when you could just sign him to a 2 way contract.

 

[whozit]

Again the question isn’t whether James is a fit or could be good. The question is why use a draft pick when you could just sign him to a 2 way contract.

The team is limited to two 2 way contracts and both of those are currently taken (unless one year deals). Vlade is not without faults. You (based on posting history) probably have better insight into mindset of at least one of the factions in Kings' office. Depending on what they do going forward, they may not have had the roster spots and simply took who they wanted.

 

[Gguod]

The thing with draft especially in the 2nd round is maximizing the value of your assets. One part of it is understanding where certain players are projected to go and therefore deciding wich asset you should use on certain players. If you have picks 40, 47 and 60, drafting a guy at 40 that is projected to go undrafted by basically every draft analyst and insider is not maximizing your assets. Moving back in the draft so the owner gets money is not maximizing your assets. With moves like this you better hit on a reach like James since its not easy to justify otherwise. When its likely that the guy would've been available with the later picks and you still use your best pick on him, then you just have to hit that pick and I hope that happens.

I also really hate trading 2nd rounders/moving back for just getting money. That doesnt help the team and you should just always take a shot with a player and try to get one of those productive guys that you find in every draft even in the 2nd round. If you dont have roster spots, either trade back to next year or combine couple of picks to trade up to get a better prospect. Thats how assets should be handled imo, to maximize their value to help the team win games short and long term.

 

[SacTownKid]

Tell that to the professional scouts that didn’t draft him before the kings. I bet they know more about the player than some internet people on a message board.

Even that doesn't matter. It's just swapping issues. The Kings could have taken anyone and still ended up with what they got. That article posted before about maximizing your assets is nail on head.

 

[jcassio]

Again the question isn’t whether James is a fit or could be good. The question is why use a draft pick when you could just sign him to a 2 way contract.

Because you don't know. You just think you know, based on your limited information and your confidence in your own opinion. The rest of us are no different. There are times when we think we know better. Or we know we know better! But I do try to remind myself that I'm not seeing all the cards on the table. That doesn't make me a better person or a better predictor; just a bit more humble than some.

 

[Gguod]

Because you don't know. You just think you know, based on your limited information and your confidence in your own opinion. The rest of us are no different. There are times when we think we know better. Or we know we know better! But I do try to remind myself that I'm not seeing all the cards on the table. That doesn't make me a better person or a better predictor; just a bit more humble than some.

You cant know definetly but you can make educated estimations. When a guy is projected to go undrafted by every nba insider and draft expert, there might be a good chance that he would be available with the 47th or 60th pick or after the draft. When you know this and still pick that guy with your best pick, you arent really maximizing your assets and you basically have to hit that pick then since you cant justify that pick being the "smart" choise to maximize you assets.

 

[jcassio]

You cant know definetly but you can make educated estimations. When a guy is projected to go undrafted by every nba insider and draft expert, there might be a good chance that he would be available with the 47th or 60th pick or after the draft. When you know this and still pick that guy with your best pick, you arent really maximizing your assets and you basically have to hit that pick then since you cant justify that pick being the "smart" choise to maximize you assets.

Sure, sure. Of course. We all make educated guesses. I just get a little worn out in the post draft period by all the people who “know it all” and have such confidence in their opinions which are almost always formed by incomplete and misinformation.

 

[sactowndog]

Because you don't know. You just think you know, based on your limited information and your confidence in your own opinion. The rest of us are no different. There are times when we think we know better. Or we know we know better! But I do try to remind myself that I'm not seeing all the cards on the table. That doesn't make me a better person or a better predictor; just a bit more humble than some.

You are asking to prove a negative which is typically difficult but it is far from just opinion.

James played at Portsmouth but was not invited to go on further in the draft evaluation process.

He worked out for 3 teams in 2018 and I know for a fact one did not invite him back this year.

From Google he worked out with Charlotte who replaced him in the afternoon session and the Kings. No announcement of other workouts leading up to the draft. From this list of workouts no mention of James....

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/draft-workouts/

Again post a workout from one team other than the Kings who might have drafted him. Otherwise, admit your are spouting opinions with no research, no contacts nor any effort to back it up.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Again the question isn’t whether James is a fit or could be good. The question is why use a draft pick when you could just sign him to a 2 way contract.

I really don't know how the draft process works but if the Kings had James as say the 35th best prospect in the draft and their pick comes up at 40, does it not make sense to take him rather than risk another team snagging him? Teams can't know for sure what other teams big boards look like. At the top of the draft it's generally a bit more clear as to what teams might do but things get a bit more muddled as the night goes on.

 

[AleksandarN]

Even that doesn't matter. It's just swapping issues. The Kings could have taken anyone and still ended up with what they got. That article posted before about maximizing your assets is nail on head.

Did he not maximize the 8 spot in the draft by the trade alone. Given the week draft as he got the better asset.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I really don't know how the draft process works but if the Kings had James as say the 35th best prospect in the draft and their pick comes up at 40, does it not make sense to take him rather than risk another team snagging him? Teams can't know for sure what other teams big boards look like. At the top of the draft it's generally a bit more clear as to what teams might do but things get a bit more muddled as the night goes on.

You clearly get it. Why others aren’t able to do the same is puzzling to me. It really is.

Those claiming to know what other teams would have done or how they viewed James — or that he would have chose the KINGS as his FA destination had he not been drafted — might as well also claim that they know what the Powerball numbers are going to be before the next drawing.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The thing with draft especially in the 2nd round is maximizing the value of your assets. One part of it is understanding where certain players are projected to go and therefore deciding wich asset you should use on certain players. If you have picks 40, 47 and 60, drafting a guy at 40 that is projected to go undrafted by basically every draft analyst and insider is not maximizing your assets.

This is beyond flawed logic. You’re expecting the KINGS — or any team for that matter — to approach the draft using somebody else’s belief system and evaluations. Absolutely brilliant!

All these ‘projections’ are coming from outside sources and not the teams themselves. None of these front offices are going to share their draft boards, strategies, and long term goals heading into a draft. Whatever info is leaked to the media, analysts, insiders or whatever you want to call them are often designed to mislead or are far from complete.

At the end of the day, these front offices do their own scouting and player evaluations and make their own decisions. They don’t care what analysts not employed by them believe they should do. Hence why Golden State took Jordan Peele at 28 not caring where draft analysts and supposed insiders projected him to go. Because all it takes is one team sharing your interest in said player and then he gets swooped.

Smart organizations understand that and do what they gotta do to ensure they get the players they covet. Whether it works out or not.

Last I checked, the Warriors have a pretty good track record in the draft and just employed the same strategy the KINGS did. So perhaps the tactic of taking the player you want when you can get them isn’t so outlandish at all.

Furthermore, we’re talking about the 40th pick. FORTIETH! Not a top 10 or lottery pick. Not even a 1st rounder. But rather a selection 10 deep into the 2nd round.

Talk about gross ‘overreaction’. The complaining in these draft threads should go into the KINGSFANS dictionary as the official definition of that word, along with Summer League performances.

 

[Cojc]

We brought in and looked at what right around 100 or so prospects? And not for sure how many other teams brought in but kinda doubt it came close to that number.

By taking 3 shooting guards for a position does not worry me in today’s NBA at all as I believe we can never have enough shooters. Will they all make a NBA roster some day ? Well I doubt it but give me someone who can come off the bench and knock down 40% of his 3’s and that’s a player who can make a place for himself in the league.

Until Buddy got here that position was the most frustrating one we had for many years so I have no problem with vlade’s decisions at the back end of the draft.

 

[Gguod]

This is beyond flawed logic. You’re expecting the KINGS — or any team for that matter — to approach the draft using somebody else’s belief system and evaluations. Absolutely brilliant!

All these ‘projections’ are coming from outside sources and not the teams themselves. None of these front offices are going to share their draft boards, strategies, and long term goals heading into a draft. Whatever info is leaked to the media, analysts, insiders or whatever you want to call them are often designed to mislead or are far from complete.

At the end of the day, these front offices do their own scouting and player evaluations and make their own decisions. They don’t care what analysts not employed by them believe they should do. Hence why Golden State took Jordan Peele at 28 not caring where draft analysts and supposed insiders projected him to go. Because all it takes is one team sharing your interest in said player and then he gets swooped.

Smart organizations understand that and do what they gotta do to ensure they get the players they covet. Whether it works out or not.

Last I checked, the Warriors have a pretty good track record in the draft and just employed the same strategy the KINGS did. So perhaps the tactic of taking the player you want when you can get them isn’t so outlandish at all.

Furthermore, we’re talking about the 40th pick. FORTIETH! Not a top 10 or lottery pick. Not even a 1st rounder. But rather a selection 10 deep into the 2nd round.

Talk about gross ‘overreaction’. The complaining in these draft threads should go into the KINGSFANS dictionary as the official definition of that word, along with Summer League performances.

Well I'm sorry if you really didnt know this but trying to understand where different prospects would be drafted is a very basic thing that probably every franchise does in all the sports. If you dont believe me you can listen Brian Winsdhorst podcast, episode "where does the draft break" where a former gm Bobby Marks says that you certainly gather information on what other teams might do and you write these things on your big board.

What matters to me is that it seems like we didnt maximize the value of our assets. We had three picks and used the best of them on a guy like that was projected to go undrafted. It seems like he could've been available with a later pick so in order to maximize our assets, we could've picked him later AND get another early 2nd round prospect. No one definetly knows he wouldnt have been picked from 41-46 but based on the things we know its fair to say that its unlikely.

Other thing I dont like is talking about these 2nd round draft picks like they dont matter. They are assets, they have value and they give you a chance to find an extremely cheap contributor to your rotation and in every draft there are those guys available in the 2nd. Just maximize your chances to get one. They can be used to trade up, trading for a player ect so its very important that you maximize their value.

Disagreeing with the teams use of 2nd rounders is definetly not a "gross overreaction". When your team drafts a projected undrafted guy with their best pick and trades down their second pick so that the owner can get money, that should be critisized. Thats not the best use of these assets and it shouldnt be just blindly defended. Questioning that startegy is certainly warranted.

 

[John Galt]

You clearly get it. Why others aren’t able to do the same is puzzling to me. It really is.

Those claiming to know what other teams would have done or how they viewed James — or that he would have chose the KINGS as his FA destination had he not been drafted — might as well also claim that they know what the Powerball numbers are going to be before the next drawing.

They have the delusion that because they have the internet, they know what every NBA insider thinks - and being wrong about that blows their circuits (since, demonstrably, at least one NBA insider liked James at 40 - this is fact not conjecture). They are willing to assign bumpkin status to Vlade Divac in a way that has been and is completely insulting. They would rather believe the Kings perpetually have fools in charge than process the fact that there is something they didn’t know.

 

[Dongoodboy]

Well I'm sorry if you really didnt know this but trying to understand where different prospects would be drafted is a very basic thing that probably every franchise does in all the sports. If you dont believe me you can listen Brian Winsdhorst podcast, episode "where does the draft break" where a former gm Bobby Marks says that you certainly gather information on what other teams might do and you write these things on your big board.

What matters to me is that it seems like we didnt maximize the value of our assets. We had three picks and used the best of them on a guy like that was projected to go undrafted. It seems like he could've been available with a later pick so in order to maximize our assets, we could've picked him later AND get another early 2nd round prospect. No one definetly knows he wouldnt have been picked from 41-46 but based on the things we know its fair to say that its unlikely.

Other thing I dont like is talking about these 2nd round draft picks like they dont matter. They are assets, they have value and they give you a chance to find an extremely cheap contributor to your rotation and in every draft there are those guys available in the 2nd. Just maximize your chances to get one. They can be used to trade up, trading for a player ect so its very important that you maximize their value.

Disagreeing with the teams use of 2nd rounders is definetly not a "gross overreaction". When your team drafts a projected undrafted guy with their best pick and trades down their second pick so that the owner can get money, that should be critisized. Thats not the best use of these assets and it shouldnt be just blindly defended. Questioning that startegy is certainly warranted.

It's not like Vlade knows how to pile up assets, the fact that after 3 years of rebuild we don't have an extra first round pick on hand and instead gave out one is still mind boggling.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

They have the delusion that because they have the internet, they know what every NBA insider thinks - and being wrong about that blows their circuits (since, demonstrably, at least one NBA insider liked James at 40 - this is fact not conjecture). They are willing to assign bumpkin status to Vlade Divac in a way that has been and is completely insulting. They would rather believe the Kings perpetually have fools in charge than process the fact that there is something they didn’t know.

That about sums it up.

Conveniently, they only make these leap of faith "I know this to be true" statements when it involves something that really can't be proven one way or the other.

I could easily make the claim, too, that I knew exactly what all these teams would have done under any situation, what they were thinking, and how everything was going to transpire and not one person could prove me wrong. That's the beauty of it all.

 

[Camino]

I gave the draft an A not because of the picks but because Vlade did the opposite of what everybody wanted which gave us something to talk about in TDOS. Good job keeping this board active!

 

[jcassio]

I gave the draft an A not because of the picks but because Vlade did the opposite of what everybody wanted which gave us something to talk about in TDOS. Good job keeping this board active!

This is called "grade inflation." But even if you cause the sky to fall, I appreciate the thought. TDOS is hell.

 

[ESP47]

I give it an F. Not because I think we could have landed exceptional talent at any of the picks. Just because even if Justin James turns out to be as good as lets say, Danuel House of the Rockets, well it won't really matter because he's blocked by Buddy and Bogi.

The odds were in favor of picking someone more highly touted at 40 and nabbing James later on. The smart thing would have been to draft for areas of need since there isn't a whole lot of difference in the prospects at this point in the draft. If you draft someone like say Admiral Schofield and he turns out to be a solid backup, you've just gotten good value out of an invaluable asset. Instead you've kind of pigeon holed yourself into a situation where not only did you not fill any holes but even if the guy develops a bit, he's going to be blocked by players that are surely going to be better than him. So you're forced to either do nothing with him or play him out of position, making him even less valuable.

All in all, James and Guy are more than likely wasted picks and it doesn't have as much to do with whether they develop or not but solely based on their place on the team. Lets say Guy turns into a poor mans JJ Redick, well now you're going to have to have him out there in very specific situations defensively. The rest of the NBA is going toward versatile switchable players with size and the Kings are going for shooting without caring too much about how difficult it is to form a team around guys like him because he's so small and doesn't play the smallest position on the court.