Grade the Kings draft

[SacTownKid]

They get an A from me just for tee’ing off all the fans who wanted them to do some certain thing.

I’m glad Vlade doesn’t just pick off the “next best available” from some blogger and make everybody happy

Again, record, record, record. What was the last "surprise" that worked out for him? Out of all of his drafting they are about to have a grand total of 1 player still on the team that wasn't a gimme. Vlade has done a lot of great things recently, but up to this point lets not ignore the realities when it comes to his draft record. And just because people take issue with his draft record doesn't mean he's terrible at his job. His scouts should be under fire maybe.

 

[sactowndog]

It will not matter. There is almost no way “blowing pick 40” will matter. We’ll see and you can say “I told you so” later when your guy blows up the league.

Also great psychic knowledge that nobody else would take Wyoming kid

You have my grade a reasons why. I responded to the thread and gave informed answers based on knowledge I have from people I’ve talked to. I’m not looking to say I told you so because my reasons have nothing to do with player A blows up or not. It’s using draft picks wisely which wasn’t done with PappaG and wasn’t done in this case either.

Try to not be a jerk in your response just because not everyone shares your rainbows and sunshine outlook.

 

[SacTownKid]

Guy falls in expected/ok category, 60th pick is just that, a 60th pick, so I'm hoping that whatever they saw in JJ materializes and he becomes a contributor.

I've been watching video on Marinkovic. On video he might be the most impressive of the bunch TBH.

 

[SacTownKid]

Sorry, can't reply to others on this iPad.
Seems the Warriors take pretty good advantage of the 2nd round and falling players over the last few years. Patrick McCaw then Jordan Bell the following year.
Bell was frequently mentioned amongst posters and so called experts yet Vlade goes with Mason.
There's no consistent patterns here but teams like GS and Utah seem to get latter picks right more often.

And look at this year. Kerr says, "We need linebackers!" In marches Eric Paschall. It always seems like the real rotation guys are in the 2nd. This was an unimpressive yet deep draft. Kings did get talent but fit has always been the curse around here dating back to Petries last few drafts.

 

[The_Jamal]

Bol’s red flags are more than medical per multiple journos, including Rusillo. Seems he doesn’t love basketball amongst other issues, and Vlade/Peja don’t draft guys that don’t love the game since the WCS draft. You need to be a baller to succeed in Sacramento because the focus needs to be on the game, and not the things the game can give you.

I voted C cause it’s three second rounders, and who cares? But you folks with the Fs are ridiculous. Every single team passed on Bol, and about half passed on him twice but we’re the idiots for not taking him?

Seems like you and Vlade shared a very similar approach to this draft.

 

[burekijogurt]

I've been watching video on Marinkovic. On video he might be the most impressive of the bunch TBH.

he will stay in Europe for a while. lets see how he develops.

 

[whozit]

.....
in your response just because not everyone shares your rainbows and sunshine outlook.

Rainbows and sunshine isn't how I would describe "John Galt's" posting history. Everything else time will tell. For the team I root for, I hope they got it right.

 

[Kings_of_California]

If there was an option to select "No opinion" I probably would have selected it. Our picks were so late in a really shallow draft class so it's hard to be too critical. I did however vote D for two reasons, first being I would have liked to see a move of some kind. I'm not part of the front office so hey - maybe there wasn't any interest, but I would've liked to see us maybe package all the picks and whatever else to try and move up and grab one decent guy. Vlade didn't though, and we used all 3 picks.

And regarding those picks? I don't know who Justin James is and neither did much of the media. That's not to say he's going to be terrible, but it's suspect. I was cool with the Guy pick. The Serbian kid with the last selection is whatever.

Overall it was just underwhelming. Ultimately I think this draft will go down in history as more or less pointless. Neither good nor bad, just...it happened.

 

[sactowndog]

Rainbows and sunshine isn't how I would describe "John Galt's" posting history. Everything else time will tell. For the team I root for, I hope they got it right.

So do I. But regardless of whether it’s right or not, Justin James was a huge reach

 

[John Galt]

Journalists and bloggers form opinions based on interactions with Scouts and Execs (I assume). And they publish an educated guess that ranks the players and predicts when they will get drafted.

Their mocks are “a guess at what the pros will do”.

Fans read the journalist and bloggers and dig into a point of view about what will happen and what “should happen”.

Then the pros draft.

Then the fans chastise the pros for not doing what the bloggers guessed and predicted they would do.

It totally cracks me up

 

[Dongoodboy]

Journalists and bloggers form opinions based on interactions with Scouts and Execs (I assume). And they publish an educated guess that ranks the players and predicts when they will get drafted.

Their mocks are “a guess at what the pros will do”.

Fans read the journalist and bloggers and dig into a point of view about what will happen and what “should happen”.

Then the pros draft.

Then the fans chastise the pros for not doing what the bloggers guessed and predicted they would do.

It totally cracks me up

Seems they are right about Papa

 

[Iced Espresso]

Journalists and bloggers form opinions based on interactions with Scouts and Execs (I assume). And they publish an educated guess that ranks the players and predicts when they will get drafted.

Their mocks are “a guess at what the pros will do”.

Fans read the journalist and bloggers and dig into a point of view about what will happen and what “should happen”.

Then the pros draft.

Then the fans chastise the pros for not doing what the bloggers guessed and predicted they would do.

It totally cracks me up

Head in the sand about cash considerations and not being able to complain about those crack me up.

When the journalist from the Moutain conference comes on the KHTK radio station to talk with Doug about James, and the first thing he says is he was surprised he was drafted, but hearing insta defend cracks me up.

 

[John Galt]

Head in the sand about cash considerations and not being able to complain about those crack me up.

When the journalist from the Moutain conference comes on the KHTK radio station to talk with Doug about James, and the first thing he says is he was surprised he was drafted, but hearing insta defend cracks me up.

I default to “journalists missed”. You default to “there goes dumb old Vlade again”.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I default to “journalists missed”. You default to “there goes dumb old Vlade again”.

I default to asset management. I've praised Vlade for getting us 9 seconds over this past draft + the next two.

That makes me happy.

He should of gotten 2 seconds to trade back, or even a pick swap option later. Something besides cash.

Sure sounds like he could of moved back from the 40 or got an asset for it too. Nuggets wanted what was picked at 43 for example.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I know Bol Bol was there and but there are obviously some medical issues going on .

And serious questions about his motor and passion for the game. I’ve read several pundits claim that he’s a poor defender already and because of his high and slender hips will get push around easily in the NBA.

I stated in another thread prior to the draft that I have seen Bol play since his HS days and that I wouldn’t mind the KINGS taking a shot on him. I never expected him to free fall in the draft like he did. I do believe he has the potential to be a special player. But a lot of things have to happen for that to happen. Most notably, he has to be remain healthy and he has to work hard.

Apparently, a lot of teams didn’t have a ton of faith that both those things will happen. If so, who can blame them for passing?

I don’t have access to or know anything about his medicals. And so many teams passed on him — sometimes multiple times — that I don’t believe it’s fair to criticize the KINGS for doing the same.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

So do I. But regardless of whether it’s right or not, Justin James was a huge reach

You are so over the top on this one. It’s not possible for anybody to be a HUGE reach at #40 in a 60 selection draft where 2nd round picks historically don’t make any type of meaningful impact or even crack an NBA roster.

This is straight hyperbole. You’re a knowledgeable fan, no doubt, but sometimes your expectations are really out of whack IMO.

 

[Dongoodboy]

I default to asset management. I've praised Vlade for getting us 9 seconds over this past draft + the next two.

That makes me happy.

He should of gotten 2 seconds to trade back, or even a pick swap option later. Something besides cash.

Sure sounds like he could of moved back from the 40 or got an asset for it too. Nuggets wanted what was picked at 43 for example.

Exactly and it just seems to me they don't have intel about this draft except working out like 9000 players. I hope the Dumars appointment can help coz losing Perry and BW (not like him though) really can hurt us.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Exactly and it just seems to me they don't have intel about this draft except working out like 9000 players. I hope the Dumars appointment can help coz losing Perry and BW (not like him though) really can hurt us.

You know if the draft went something like this.....

Trade the 40 for the 55 and a future second.

#47 Draft James

#55 Guy

# 60 Euro stash.

Vlade comes on and says he really thinks James has good fit for our style of play etc, and he was my guy.

Then I am not complaining at all.

 

[sactowndog]

Journalists and bloggers form opinions based on interactions with Scouts and Execs (I assume). And they publish an educated guess that ranks the players and predicts when they will get drafted.

Their mocks are “a guess at what the pros will do”.

Fans read the journalist and bloggers and dig into a point of view about what will happen and what “should happen”.

Then the pros draft.

Then the fans chastise the pros for not doing what the bloggers guessed and predicted they would do.

It totally cracks me up

You apparently have little insight how this works. The top journalists have spend quite a bit of time speaking with drafts and nba execs. James had very few other workouts. The only mention I could find was a morning and afternoon workout with THT and others in Charlotte and he was dismissed and replaced after the morning.

He played in Portsmouth and was not invited to the NBA combine. These other players were invited because enough NBA teams wanted to see them....
Tacko Fall (UCF)
Terance Mann (Florida State)
Dewan Hernandez (Miami)
Oshae Brissett (Syracuse)
Cody Martin (Nevada)
DaQuan Jeffries (Tulsa)
Jared Harper (Auburn)
Tyler Cook (Iowa)
Marial Shayok (Iowa State)
Reggie Perry (Mississippi State)
Terence Davis (Ole Miss)

There was absolutely nothing to indicate any other team had interest in drafting James and certainly not at 40. It is absolutely not hyperbole to state that James at 40 was as much a reach as PappaG. Especially with players like THT, Paschell, Roby, etc on the board.

 

[sactowndog]

You are so over the top on this one. It’s not possible for anybody to be a HUGE reach at #40 in a 60 selection draft where 2nd round picks historically don’t make any type of meaningful impact or even crack an NBA roster.

This is straight hyperbole. You’re a knowledgeable fan, no doubt, but sometimes your expectations are really out of whack IMO.

PappaG was considered a late 1st early second who the Kings took at 13 about 20-25 picks too early. James was an player who wouldn’t be drafted drafted at 40. They are about the same magnitude too early.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

PappaG was considered a late 1st early second who the Kings took at 13 about 20-25 picks too early. James was an player who wouldn’t be drafted drafted at 40. They are about the same magnitude too early.

No, not the same magnitude at all. A lottery pick and #40 are not comparable. Not the same ballpark, not even the same sport.

I can agree with you in hindsight that Papa G was a reach, especially in the lottery. But this kid, no matter how he develops, can’t be a reach.

And, again, you do not know James wouldn’t have beeen drafted shortly after the KINGS were on the clock had they not drafted him. You keep posturing as if you know, but you don’t so stop with that nonsense.

 

[ParniValjak]

2nd round is generally a crapshoot. Very few players rarely stick around in the NBA in the long run.

 

[Telemachus]

PappaG was considered a late 1st early second who the Kings took at 13 about 20-25 picks too early. James was an player who wouldn’t be drafted drafted at 40. They are about the same magnitude too early.

I disagree with pretty much all yourpoints here.
First, whether Pappa G worked out or not, he would not have been there when the Kings picked next. That doesn't make him the right pick, but if the Kings wanted him they had to take him with the 13th pick.
Secondly, 2nd round picks are a crapshoot. The difference in talent from somewhere in the 20s (varies from year to year) to those who are undrafted is not all that different. It comes down to individual assessment, team needs, etc. This is why teams do their homework. If you like a player, you take him. It doesn't matter what the pundits say (they vary a lot btw). Every 2nd round pick is a reach. Any that become successful are a bonus.

 

[kingdivac]

C - I like that they're looking at backup Guard options, but might've liked 1 front court player in the mix. Don't even know if we'll see any of them on the roster next year.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I disagree with pretty much all yourpoints here.
First, whether Pappa G worked out or not, he would not have been there when the Kings picked next. That doesn't make him the right pick, but if the Kings wanted him they had to take him with the 13th pick.
Secondly, 2nd round picks are a crapshoot. The difference in talent from somewhere in the 20s (varies from year to year) to those who are undrafted is not all that different. It comes down to individual assessment, team needs, etc. This is why teams do their homework. If you like a player, you take him. It doesn't matter what the pundits say (they vary a lot btw). Every 2nd round pick is a reach. Any that become successful are a bonus.

You’re totally right in that if a team covets a player, they should take him.

This notion that the KINGS should have drafted a player they valued less but whose value around the league is ‘perceived’ to be higher and then take their chances convincing the player they like more to sign with them over (potentially) numerous other suitors is completely irrrational.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You know if the draft went something like this.....

Trade the 40 for the 55 and a future second.

#47 Draft James

#55 Guy

# 60 Euro stash.

Vlade comes on and says he really thinks James has good fit for our style of play etc, and he was my guy.

Then I am not complaining at all.

To be fair, I haven't seen any reports on how much cash we got from the Knicks to move down, but there's a decent chance it was enough to buy a second rounder in a future draft if we want to. I mean, the only difference between a scenario you would not complain about and a scenario that you kind of are complaining about is the difference between a future second rounder and cash. And, for all we know, the amount of cash we got is actually interconvertible with a future second rounder.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

PappaG was considered a late 1st early second who the Kings took at 13 about 20-25 picks too early. James was an player who wouldn’t be drafted drafted at 40. They are about the same magnitude too early.

Putting aside contemporary reports that at least one other team in the mid-teens was interested in PapaG, it should be pointed out that the draft falls off in a somewhat exponential fashion. The 21-pick difference between 13 and 34 (where the quality of player is still falling somewhat steeply) is quite a bit larger than the 21-pick difference between 40 and undrafted (where the quality of player has begun to asymptote). If in fact PapaG wasn't going until the mid-30s he was a far, far, far bigger reach than Justin James.

 

[sactowndog]

I disagree with pretty much all yourpoints here.
First, whether Pappa G worked out or not, he would not have been there when the Kings picked next. That doesn't make him the right pick, but if the Kings wanted him they had to take him with the 13th pick.
Secondly, 2nd round picks are a crapshoot. The difference in talent from somewhere in the 20s (varies from year to year) to those who are undrafted is not all that different. It comes down to individual assessment, team needs, etc. This is why teams do their homework. If you like a player, you take him. It doesn't matter what the pundits say (they vary a lot btw). Every 2nd round pick is a reach. Any that become successful are a bonus.

The Kings had 22 and 28 in that draft. I’m not sure I agree PappaG would not have been there...

But regardless the point every 2nd round pick is a reach is apples and oranges to my point. Think of it this way. The draft breaks out into tiers: tier 1 possible All-Stars, tier 2 possible starters, tier 3 possible role players, tier 4 G leaguers.... where those tiers break varies by draft but for this draft it was thought tier 3 went to about 40 or so. The Kings passed on a handful of those players (many in a position of need) to draft a guy who wasn’t going to be drafted (in a position with currently 2 deep). In financial terms it was a massive overpay to market value.

What I’m not saying is James will be a bust. I have no way to know that fact. UDFA make it in the NBA every year. But I would much rather have seen the Kings give him a 2-way slot, guaranteed money, or trade down for more picks than take James at 40. I also don’t know if Vlade plans on trading Bogdan for a SF. That would change my perspective but at this point my grade would be low.

 

[sactowndog]

Putting aside contemporary reports that at least one other team in the mid-teens was interested in PapaG, it should be pointed out that the draft falls off in a somewhat exponential fashion. The 21-pick difference between 13 and 34 (where the quality of player is still falling somewhat steeply) is quite a bit larger than the 21-pick difference between 40 and undrafted (where the quality of player has begun to asymptote). If in fact PapaG wasn't going until the mid-30s he was a far, far, far bigger reach than Justin James.

Depends on the draft. In this draft, the group of players seen as possible role players was a deep group extending into the 40’s. That fact made the James pick a bigger reach

 

[KingsFanSince85]

What I’m not saying is James will be a bust. I have no way to know that fact.

You have no way of knowing many of the things you’ve positioned as fact regarding this draft. But that hasn’t stopped you to this point. Why draw the line here?

You’re still clinging to the notion that James is a big reach, even bigger than Papa G despite numerous people providing solid reasoning why that’s not a logical conclusion. The simplest, easiest factor to grasp is one player was #13 and the other was #40 in a sport where 1st rounders, specifically lottery picks, are typically expected to stick and 2nd rounders aren’t — yet here you are digging a deeper hole.