Kings hire Luke Walton

[sactowndog]

I think Bagley and Giles are best suited for the 4 and can play the 5 in small ball unless they are going up against Adams, Gobert, Embiid, etc. I think each of them have the lateral quickness to stay with Draymond Green and other 4/3 type players. I have only heard of Vlade referring to Bagley as a 3 one time, though it has often been repeated by others

I have heard him say it a couple times. Yes you might swing 4 or 5 with Giles and 3 or 4 with Bagley depending on match-ups. I think the key is can these guys defend at least 3 different positions. 5,4,3 for Giles and 4,3,2 for Bagley.

 

[ParniValjak]

Vlade never said Bagley will be a 3. What he said is that he could play some 3 when he develops. In other word if you want to go big at stages, Bagley could swing to 3 but primarily he will play 4.

 

[bajaden]

I have heard him say it a couple times. Yes you might swing 4 or 5 with Giles and 3 or 4 with Bagley depending on match-ups. I think the key is can these guys defend at least 3 different positions. 5,4,3 for Giles and 4,3,2 for Bagley.

I think that's a good analogy. Won't happen tomorrow, but in a couple of years, I can see that. Both players have a very high ceiling, and I think Giles has a lot more to show. Considering that he hadn't played much ball for almost two and half years, I thought he was remarkable this year. You could almost see the rust peeling off of him. Bagley is a superstar in the making. He's going to be very scary in a couple of years.

You know, you don't have to go recruit superstars in freeagency, when you already have some on your team. They just haven't broken out of the shell yet.

 

[sactowndog]

Vlade never said Bagley will be a 3. What he said is that he could play some 3 when he develops. In other word if you want to go big at stages, Bagley could swing to 3 but primarily he will play 4.

I would agree but again it would depend on matchups. 4-5 for Giles and 3-4 for Bagley.

But to get there a couple tings have to happen. Bagley has to improve his 3 point shooting and become a 3 level scorer. Bagley has to be switchable 2,3,4 on defense.

 

[sactowndog]

I think that's a good analogy. Won't happen tomorrow, but in a couple of years, I can see that. Both players have a very high ceiling, and I think Giles has a lot more to show. Considering that he hadn't played much ball for almost two and half years, I thought he was remarkable this year. You could almost see the rust peeling off of him. Bagley is a superstar in the making. He's going to be very scary in a couple of years.

You know, you don't have to go recruit superstars in freeagency, when you already have some on your team. They just haven't broken out of the shell yet.

I would agree but I would also say plenty of NBA people see Bagley and Giles as 5’s/4.5’s. I think Joeger is in that group as he said on many occasions he didn’t want to cut into Bagley’s minutes playing Giles.

God only knows if Bagley can swing 3-4 and Giles 4-5. For the sake of a long suffering Kings fan base I hope they can. If so, Vlade will be running for Mayor next. If not, Vlade will forever be the guy who passed on Luka. But in either case, Vlade deserves a coach aligned with his vision. It will be an interesting 4 years.

 

[VF21]

I have a built in feeling of antipathy towards Walton, probably due to his years with the Lakers. But if I restrict my view of him to his coaching career, what has he done? If winning a championship with the Warriors makes him a great coach, then Tyrone Lue is also a great coach. Am I supposed to take one 35 win year with the Lakers as evidence that he is the guy to take us to the playoffs?

It's not so much what he's done as what a lot of us think he's capable of doing. If this works, we've got a young and hungry coach with a young and hungry squad, growing and learning together and building a bond that will be very tough to break.

If you only want experienced coaches, you automatically cancel out the opportunity for a young talented coach to prove his worth.

 

[ESP47]

Mike Malone didnt have much experience or a very good record when he was canned due to a dysfunctional franchise. He turned out fine. We need to stop evaluating Walton based on his stint coaching the Lakers. They have been blowing through coaches for nearly a decade now.

Malone was well known as a very good defensive mind when the Kings hired him.

I'm just not exactly sure what it is that Walton is supposed to be good at. He could wind up being a better coach than Adelman after all is said and done. We have no clue. All I know is that as of right now I don't have a clue what Walton's strengths are even supposed to be because we haven't seen them. It just feels like a roll of the dice.

But so far, most of Vlade's moves have been pretty good so in Vlade we trust.

 

[The Effort Police]

Malone was well known as a very good defensive mind when the Kings hired him.

I'm just not exactly sure what it is that Walton is supposed to be good at. He could wind up being a better coach than Adelman after all is said and done. We have no clue. All I know is that as of right now I don't have a clue what Walton's strengths are even supposed to be because we haven't seen them. It just feels like a roll of the dice.

But so far, most of Vlade's moves have been pretty good so in Vlade we trust.

Defense actually. His staff is usually well-regarded as being great at developing a young player's defense. Considering he turned Ingram, Randle, and even Lonzo Ball of all people into decent defensive players there might be some merit (though Kuzma's a lost cause).

Don't get me wrong his offense absolutely blows (although it kinda fits with this roster) but he's a pretty good defensive coach.

 

[ParniValjak]

I think that's a good analogy. Won't happen tomorrow, but in a couple of years, I can see that. Both players have a very high ceiling, and I think Giles has a lot more to show. Considering that he hadn't played much ball for almost two and half years, I thought he was remarkable this year. You could almost see the rust peeling off of him. Bagley is a superstar in the making. He's going to be very scary in a couple of years.

You know, you don't have to go recruit superstars in freeagency, when you already have some on your team. They just haven't broken out of the shell yet.

Super team, just young!

 

[funkykingston]

Who would you want inFA?

My view is that with FA looming for Buddy & Bogie next year and Fox and Giles the year after that, I'd rather not see the Kings commit long term to any free agents this summer.

Maybe an extension for Barnes, re-signing Brewer to a reasonable deal and (assuming WCS isn't re-signed) either a bargain signing for a young big body or a slight overpay on a one or two year deal for a veteran big who can bang down low and protect the rim. Unless Walton plans to play Barnes primarily at the 4 (meaning a starting 3 would still be a priority) then I think the core of the team is set and the goal should be to conserve capspace to retain those players while using smart, low cost signings and draft picks to surround them.

 

[King Baller]

Malone was well known as a very good defensive mind when the Kings hired him.

I'm just not exactly sure what it is that Walton is supposed to be good at. He could wind up being a better coach than Adelman after all is said and done. We have no clue. All I know is that as of right now I don't have a clue what Walton's strengths are even supposed to be because we haven't seen them. It just feels like a roll of the dice.

But so far, most of Vlade's moves have been pretty good so in Vlade we trust.

The first two years Walton coached the Lakers the teams win total improved by 9 games each year. That is pretty significant. That teams pace also increased by a couple of possessions each of those years. He was also 39 and 4 as an interim Head Coach his second season in GSW As KIngs Head Coach his stated goals are to focus on defense, shoot more 3's and keep up the pace. Hope this helps!

 

[sergmatt]

My view is that with FA looming for Buddy & Bogie next year and Fox and Giles the year after that, I'd rather not see the Kings commit long term to any free agents this summer.

Maybe an extension for Barnes, re-signing Brewer to a reasonable deal and (assuming WCS isn't re-signed) either a bargain signing for a young big body or a slight overpay on a one or two year deal for a veteran big who can bang down low and protect the rim.

Great post and excellent points. Nice to see somebody thinking ahead.

Too many people here think the Kings should just go out this summer and go crazy signing guys like Vucevic to huge deals while also extending Barnes but then forget that Buddy/Bogie will need to be paid next year and then you have Fox/Giles coming up after that.

If the core four really is Fox, Bagley, Buddy, and Giles then you have to plan ahead and assume that all of those guys are going to be great players that will need paid in the next few years.

I'm going to be mad if the Kings overpay for someone like Vucevic this summer on a long deal......only for it to cause them not to be able to afford a Giles extension in a few years. I've seen it happen too many times, teams blow all their money on ancillary guys and then have to let a young budding superstar walk and explode somewhere else.

 

[Reverend]

I think that's a good analogy. Won't happen tomorrow, but in a couple of years, I can see that. Both players have a very high ceiling, and I think Giles has a lot more to show. Considering that he hadn't played much ball for almost two and half years, I thought he was remarkable this year. You could almost see the rust peeling off of him. Bagley is a superstar in the making. He's going to be very scary in a couple of years.

You know, you don't have to go recruit superstars in freeagency, when you already have some on your team. They just haven't broken out of the shell yet.

What you said about Bagley is true. I’d love to see some videos over the summer come out of him playing with other vets & such the way Buddy did. I’m thinking that could have been key in him taking a step forward as well, having some of the elder statesman in the league take him under their wing

 

[ParniValjak]

My view is that with FA looming for Buddy & Bogie next year and Fox and Giles the year after that, I'd rather not see the Kings commit long term to any free agents this summer.

Maybe an extension for Barnes, re-signing Brewer to a reasonable deal and (assuming WCS isn't re-signed) either a bargain signing for a young big body or a slight overpay on a one or two year deal for a veteran big who can bang down low and protect the rim. Unless Walton plans to play Barnes primarily at the 4 (meaning a starting 3 would still be a priority) then I think the core of the team is set and the goal should be to conserve capspace to retain those players while using smart, low cost signings and draft picks to surround them.

All makes sense and ties in with Grant apparently bringing up DeAndre Jordan consistently. I would do it on a 2 year deal on a bigger per year salary. Gives two years to Bagley and Giles to develop and take over the big man duties in time for key re-signings to take place. At that point you are hopefully looking for a good back up big instead of a starter at the position.

 

[206Fan]

Great post and excellent points. Nice to see somebody thinking ahead.

Too many people here think the Kings should just go out this summer and go crazy signing guys like Vucevic to huge deals while also extending Barnes but then forget that Buddy/Bogie will need to be paid next year and then you have Fox/Giles coming up after that.

If the core four really is Fox, Bagley, Buddy, and Giles then you have to plan ahead and assume that all of those guys are going to be great players that will need paid in the next few years.

I'm going to be mad if the Kings overpay for someone like Vucevic this summer on a long deal......only for it to cause them not to be able to afford a Giles extension in a few years. I've seen it happen too many times, teams blow all their money on ancillary guys and then have to let a young budding superstar walk and explode somewhere else.

It would be a shame to see this FO cheapen out on not signing FAs. This team is far from a contender and we need help everywhere we get it. Roster improvements are necessary for the Kings to get better. Look at the Warriors 2 years ago. Are you saying they should've passed on signing KD because Klay, Draymond, and Steph were due for a contract extension soon? I know we're nowhere near as successful as the Warriors nor will we get KD on this team, but you don't have to worry about spending big money on FAs as long as you have the cap space.

In terms of money and extensions, the real discussion will come down to Buddy vs. Bogdan. Both are the same age and both play SG. As a result of their overlapping position, the Kings won't be able to pay both players starter money... which is exactly what Bogdan will be looking to get paid.

 

[Cojc]

Yes I think vlade brings in a new center and not some backup left over from another team.
Vlade sees the same problems as most of us do but also knows you can not fix all the changes you need over night.

He tackled the glaring hole at small forward and thought he strengthened our pg/sg position with Burks.
I don’t know why Burks did not work out? But if vlade doesn’t resign Burks then we will know it was a mistaken chance or he just found a better option on the free market this summer.

I can see trying to resign Brewer to some type of contract as he is the kind of player most every team needs as a second tier player.

 

[ppine]

It will help to be supportive of the new coach.
PLayers in the NBA have their positions determined mostly by who they can guard. I can't see Bagley at the 5 against teams with big centers. I like Barnes at the 3. Giles at the 4. The Kings would really be improved by a big guy that can defend and rebound.

I have heard him say it a couple times. Yes you might swing 4 or 5 with Giles and 3 or 4 with Bagley depending on match-ups. I think the key is can these guys defend at least 3 different positions. 5,4,3 for Giles and 4,3,2 for Bagley.

I think you are dreaming. It is a nice dream though and not a nightmare. I can't see Bagley guarding a 3, much less a 2.

 

[The Effort Police]

It would be a shame to see this FO cheapen out on not signing FAs. This team is far from a contender and we need help everywhere we get it. Roster improvements are necessary for the Kings to get better. Look at the Warriors 2 years ago. Are you saying they should've passed on signing KD because Klay, Draymond, and Steph were due for a contract extension soon? I know we're nowhere near as successful as the Warriors nor will we get KD on this team, but you don't have to worry about spending big money on FAs as long as you have the cap space.

In terms of money and extensions, the real discussion will come down to Buddy vs. Bogdan. Both are the same age and both play SG. As a result of their overlapping position, the Kings won't be able to pay both players starter money... which is exactly what Bogdan will be looking to get paid.

That's an easy decision TBH.

 

[sactowndog]

It will help to be supportive of the new coach.
PLayers in the NBA have their positions determined mostly by who they can guard. I can't see Bagley at the 5 against teams with big centers. I like Barnes at the 3. Giles at the 4. The Kings would really be improved by a big guy that can defend and rebound.

I think you are dreaming. It is a nice dream though and not a nightmare. I can't see Bagley guarding a 3, much less a 2.

Well I’m not going to argue too hard he can because I’m not sure.

In evidence he might I will offer this thought. Bagley is quicker laterally than Giles on raw lateral quickness. P3 measured Giles at elite Small Forward level. But if neither have a clue how to use it and move their feet properly it won’t matter.

Here is what we do know...
1) Vlade sees Bagley and Giles as foundational starters for this team

2) we have Barnes at SF

3) we are looking at a center in free agency

To me that means Giles and Bagley will have to swing 4/5 with Barnes or 3/4 with say Vucevic. For the later to work Bagley better be able to switch defensively on a 2.

 

[OPrime]

If Bogdan doesn’t have a better season next year he can want starter money all he wants but won’t be getting it from anyone. If he does play better I think the kings can re-sign him for low end starter money of maybe $10-$14 mil/year where he gets 25+ mins a game getting some minutes backing up the 1-3.

Whether buddy gets a nice extension before hand or becomes a restricted free agent that we match he’s not going anywhere

 

[funkykingston]

It would be a shame to see this FO cheapen out on not signing FAs. This team is far from a contender and we need help everywhere we get it. Roster improvements are necessary for the Kings to get better. Look at the Warriors 2 years ago. Are you saying they should've passed on signing KD because Klay, Draymond, and Steph were due for a contract extension soon? I know we're nowhere near as successful as the Warriors nor will we get KD on this team, but you don't have to worry about spending big money on FAs as long as you have the cap space.

In terms of money and extensions, the real discussion will come down to Buddy vs. Bogdan. Both are the same age and both play SG. As a result of their overlapping position, the Kings won't be able to pay both players starter money... which is exactly what Bogdan will be looking to get paid.

Until I see some evidence that Vivek/ownership is willing to pay the luxury tax I am going to assume that doing something like extending Barnes (at say $22 million per or so) and throwing a max deal at Vucevic is going to mean losing one of Hield, Fox or Bagley down the road.

The Warriors were in a very different circumstance to even be able to sign Durant. They had the best shooter in the history of the NBA and a league MVP signed to an absolute sweetheart deal due to his previous ankle issues. Not to mention Klay and Draymond signed under a very different salary structure that allowed them to move enough salary to accommodate KD. But above and beyond that, they had an owner who was willing and able to pay the luxury tax of $51 million this season. And it's only the likelihood of Durant leaving that will save them from a huge repeater tax.

If Vlade really believes in the young core he's assembled, he has to be preparing to keep it together long term. And save for a new ownership group with deeper pockets I think the only way to do that is to carefully manage the salary cap year over year.

But above and beyond that, I may be in the minority but I see Bagley's best position in today's NBA as being as a versatile 5 man. I don't see a frontcourt of he and, say, Vucevic being all that successful due to spacing issues. Add in Barnes needing some post up opportunities and things get clogged up quickly. Maybe a stretch five along the lines of Brook Lopez (but not Lopez because the Bucks know how key he's been to unlocking Giannis this season) would work alongside Bagley at the 4 but I don't know what options there are out there.

To me, the best bet for the Kings is to give the young guys as much leash as possible and use the cap money to upgrade the bench with a big bodied center and more scoring punch/versatility from the wings and backup PG.

 

[63royals]

It took me a while to remember this one, since it was early 70's, but here's an even older connection. I remember a story in Sports Illustrated about an NCAA basketball trip to Europe to play some of the teams over there. Bill Walton graduated from UCLA in '74, so it would have been before then. Apparently, the Yugoslavian center got hurt just before the game, so Bill Walton volunteered to play with the Yugoslavians. I have no doubt that Vlade had a friend who got to play with Bill Walton that day, which makes it easy for me to see why their relationship started off so well.

 

[TheGoldenOne]

Good coach. Good GM. Good players. Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can't.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Until I see some evidence that Vivek/ownership is willing to pay the luxury tax I am going to assume that doing something like extending Barnes (at say $22 million per or so) and throwing a max deal at Vucevic is going to mean losing one of Hield, Fox or Bagley down the road.

The Warriors were in a very different circumstance to even be able to sign Durant. They had the best shooter in the history of the NBA and a league MVP signed to an absolute sweetheart deal due to his previous ankle issues. Not to mention Klay and Draymond signed under a very different salary structure that allowed them to move enough salary to accommodate KD. But above and beyond that, they had an owner who was willing and able to pay the luxury tax of $51 million this season. And it's only the likelihood of Durant leaving that will save them from a huge repeater tax.

If Vlade really believes in the young core he's assembled, he has to be preparing to keep it together long term. And save for a new ownership group with deeper pockets I think the only way to do that is to carefully manage the salary cap year over year.

But above and beyond that, I may be in the minority but I see Bagley's best position in today's NBA as being as a versatile 5 man. I don't see a frontcourt of he and, say, Vucevic being all that successful due to spacing issues. Add in Barnes needing some post up opportunities and things get clogged up quickly. Maybe a stretch five along the lines of Brook Lopez (but not Lopez because the Bucks know how key he's been to unlocking Giannis this season) would work alongside Bagley at the 4 but I don't know what options there are out there.

To me, the best bet for the Kings is to give the young guys as much leash as possible and use the cap money to upgrade the bench with a big bodied center and more scoring punch/versatility from the wings and backup PG.

Lost me at extending Barnes for 2

I’d sooner think they’d shell out a big contract now and let Barnes prove himself

 

[206Fan]

Lost me at extending Barnes for 2

I’d sooner think they’d shell out a big contract now and let Barnes prove himself

I'm not feeling too confident about giving Barnes big money. His sample size with the Kings is too small. I thought he played good for us, but at the end of the day, he's just a role player.

 

[funkykingston]

Lost me at extending Barnes for 2

I’d sooner think they’d shell out a big contract now and let Barnes prove himself

I'm not sold on Barnes either but there have been enough rumors around the Kings wanting to extend him that I wouldn't be surprised at this point.

On the other hand, if he opts out, then there's a very clear way to spend the caproom this offseason - on a new starting SF.

 

[SLAB]

I'm not feeling too confident about giving Barnes big money. His sample size with the Kings is too small. I thought he played good for us, but at the end of the day, he's just a role player.

An excellent role player at that. Isn’t worth the max contract, but a damn solid player to have and not worry about.

 

[Telemachus]

I'm not sold on Barnes either but there have been enough rumors around the Kings wanting to extend him that I wouldn't be surprised at this point.

On the other hand, if he opts out, then there's a very clear way to spend the caproom this offseason - on a new starting SF.

The only way I see Barnes opting out of his contract is if he plans on signing a long term deal with the Kings for slightly less money. I don't see any teams out there that would offer him $25 million as a FA.

 

[206Fan]

An excellent role player at that. Isn’t worth the max contract, but a damn solid player to have and not worry about.

The only way I see Barnes opting out of his contract is if he plans on signing a long term deal with the Kings for slightly less money. I don't see any teams out there that would offer him $25 million as a FA.

no one else is giving him over 15-20mpy.

 

[Kingsfan23]

A solid 4/5 option who really doesn’t greatly impact winning is about half what he will get next year, he ain’t opting out and I don’t see the team meeting a price to make it worth his while

It’s been said he can do more with a camp and getting to know his teammates/system, so it’s convenient that he has a year to show us what he’s worth