Reviewing Bagley v Luka
- Thread starter Kangztillidie
- Start date
Last time I looked at RPM and VORP, Doncic was about 80th and 30th in each stat. Bagley was about 440th and 180th in each himself.
I read your post clear as day. If we're talking advanced stats, either guy is hardly trending either way. Bagley's advanced stats have gotten slightly better and Doncic's have gotten better as well, just not as quickly as they did early on in the season. Their stats are so far apart that Bagley would never catch Doncic, even if the season was 5x as long. Doncic is still putting up triple doubles while people are acting like the wheels fell off for him.
You do realize that the Mavs completely dismantled their team to trade for Porzingis right? The Mavs were doing way better than expected when Doncic had Jordan, Matthews and DSJ around him. They were close to .500 with a 19 year old running the show. Doncic isn't an empty statter. He had nearly all the good players taken away from him so of course he isn't going to be out there winning games as a rookie. You put Bagley on the Mavs in place of Doncic and he isn't going to be winning crap either. You need talent at more than just one position to win games. Plus when you're the only offense on the team, it's much easier to be defended by your opposition.
I always respect your opinion on here but you can't bring up advanced stats to make a point that you think Bagley is trending up and Doncic is trending down and then all the sudden act like 'my' advanced stats are pointless. If you don't believe in advanced stats, then that's fine but don't try and make a point using them and then act like they don't mean anything.
I read your post clear as day. If we're talking advanced stats, either guy is hardly trending either way. Bagley's advanced stats have gotten slightly better and Doncic's have gotten better as well, just not as quickly as they did early on in the season. Their stats are so far apart that Bagley would never catch Doncic, even if the season was 5x as long. Doncic is still putting up triple doubles while people are acting like the wheels fell off for him.
You do realize that the Mavs completely dismantled their team to trade for Porzingis right? The Mavs were doing way better than expected when Doncic had Jordan, Matthews and DSJ around him. They were close to .500 with a 19 year old running the show. Doncic isn't an empty statter. He had nearly all the good players taken away from him so of course he isn't going to be out there winning games as a rookie. You put Bagley on the Mavs in place of Doncic and he isn't going to be winning crap either. You need talent at more than just one position to win games. Plus when you're the only offense on the team, it's much easier to be defended by your opposition.
I always respect your opinion on here but you can't bring up advanced stats to make a point that you think Bagley is trending up and Doncic is trending down and then all the sudden act like 'my' advanced stats are pointless. If you don't believe in advanced stats, then that's fine but don't try and make a point using them and then act like they don't mean anything.
We still have a disconnect/misunderstanding. I didn’t cite or refer to any advanced stats, let alone from this season. I said that I watched an ESPN video done before and leading up to the draft wherein THEY said THEIR analytics projected Bagley as the top guy in the draft.
I then made the statement that with MB3’s performances the last 2 months (which have been getting better and more consistent in recent weeks) combined with #77 seemingly hitting a wall lately things are tending toward what they predicted. That MB3 might really be the top player. That’s all.
You then brought up stats from the entire season that don’t factor in or matter with regard to what I was pointing out.
I fully understand that #77 has had a better statistical season on the whole and will win ROY. I don’t contest that. But when I said things are trending as ESPN predicted 10 months ago, that’s not wrong. MB3 has been getting better while #77 has struggled a lot more than earlier in the season.
FWIW, here’s the video I was referring to: (correction: I incorrectly stated that Seth Greenberg was the analyst when it was in fact Tim Legler)
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Props to kings front office in having the wisdom and fortitude to make the unpopular pick in bagley at 2. Looks like a solid home run. At the time I thought it was the wrong selection but was hopefull bagley could be the best guy. 2nd half of the season bagley looks like the best player in the draft imo with an enormous upside.
Future hall of famer
Good job vlade and kings front office
Future hall of famer
Good job vlade and kings front office
This is just asinine. You should actually put some of your most "clever" Luka bashings in your sig that way a year or two from now we can all see how well your opinion of Luka holds up.
It is kind of remarkable on this forum how some people are so flippantly willing to stake their reputation in terms of basketball knowledge on such absurd opinions. If someone's opinion is that "Luka sucks, he's fat, will be out of the league in a few years, etc." why should I take their basketball opinion about anything else seriously?
It appears that both Bagley and Luka were the "right" picks for their respective teams. Bagley has played great the last couple months and has continued to show improvement. There are some things he needs to work on (such as his right hand) but that is the case with all rookies. Would appear that Bagley will develop into an all-star big man.
No question that Luka is starting to "hit a wall" the last month or so. He's played a lot of basketball the last year with a huge work load. Obviously he needs to firm up his body as well. When hitting the wall consists of getting multiple triple-doubles while playing with a talent depleted roster, I think most people would still take that from a rookie. He has almost nothing around him in terms of talent right now until they get Porzingis back next season with some free agents.
How many rookies "hit a wall" and still compile triple doubles with regularity?
It is possible for both Bagley and Luka to be incredible players at the same time.
It is kind of remarkable on this forum how some people are so flippantly willing to stake their reputation in terms of basketball knowledge on such absurd opinions. If someone's opinion is that "Luka sucks, he's fat, will be out of the league in a few years, etc." why should I take their basketball opinion about anything else seriously?
It appears that both Bagley and Luka were the "right" picks for their respective teams. Bagley has played great the last couple months and has continued to show improvement. There are some things he needs to work on (such as his right hand) but that is the case with all rookies. Would appear that Bagley will develop into an all-star big man.
No question that Luka is starting to "hit a wall" the last month or so. He's played a lot of basketball the last year with a huge work load. Obviously he needs to firm up his body as well. When hitting the wall consists of getting multiple triple-doubles while playing with a talent depleted roster, I think most people would still take that from a rookie. He has almost nothing around him in terms of talent right now until they get Porzingis back next season with some free agents.
How many rookies "hit a wall" and still compile triple doubles with regularity?
It is possible for both Bagley and Luka to be incredible players at the same time.
Caught a bit of Doug and Grant yesterday. Doug said the next road trippin podcast will be with Bags (in addition to Fox and him). Said they asked Bags who was his toughest guard and he said Giannis. Then went on to imply that Giannis is Bags benchmark, his template. Kudos to the Kings FO and coaches. They've never come out and said this, but it's becoming pretty obvious that they saw him as someone who could emulate Giannis and has worked hard (and continue to do so) to mold his game that way.
Also, I didn't see that Tim Legler piece until now. But that dude, the way he sees the game, belongs in a front office. He sees things that very few folks see. The way he described Bags, Trae, Allen, and WCJ is spot on.
Also, I didn't see that Tim Legler piece until now. But that dude, the way he sees the game, belongs in a front office. He sees things that very few folks see. The way he described Bags, Trae, Allen, and WCJ is spot on.
Yeah, I like Legler a lot too. Can’t believe I gave the wrong individual credit for the analysis. Just slipped up.
Anyway, I stumbled across it recently and I just felt Legs was pretty spot on and things were starting to trend exactly as he saw it 10 months or so ago. I certainly didn’t have MB3 as the top guy or even top 3 right away. But he did.
Anyway, I stumbled across it recently and I just felt Legs was pretty spot on and things were starting to trend exactly as he saw it 10 months or so ago. I certainly didn’t have MB3 as the top guy or even top 3 right away. But he did.
I was listening to the radio otw to work and they were discussing ROTY. Lots of Doncic and Trae talk (and rightfully so) but not even a mention of Bagley. Made me sad.
Bagley has played 6 less minutes per game than Trae and 8 less minutes per game than Doncic. If he were at the same MPG I think he would be in the discussion more.
Per 36 Bags is averaging a little over 21/10
Bagley has played 6 less minutes per game than Trae and 8 less minutes per game than Doncic. If he were at the same MPG I think he would be in the discussion more.
Per 36 Bags is averaging a little over 21/10
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Whats so special about bagley is his producing on mostly physical ability while Doncic is a very refined player. I still think Doncic will adjust and get better as well but MY GOD.......Bagley going into year 3 will be even more gifted athletically and an offensive repertoire i don't even dare to predict. Add in how quickly he's learning the nba game on both ends of the court and it's hard not to say he won't be a multiple ALL NBA player. He will take a fox level jump from the year to next as will Fox take another quantum leap of his own. Add in a lil Buddy and Giles and we're really cooking with gravy. DAMN if feels good to be a kings fan. Thanks for being right again Vlade!
As mentioned previously Grant has always been the public mouthpiece for the organization in terms of pushing whatever agenda they want to put out there. I'm sure this subtle "hint" from Grant is coming from the front office.
I like Joerger as a coach but he is prickly and stubborn. At this point in the season with the playoffs out of reach there is absolutely no reason not to start Bagley.......other than Joerger trying to pick a fight with the front office.
I like Joerger as a coach but he is prickly and stubborn. At this point in the season with the playoffs out of reach there is absolutely no reason not to start Bagley.......other than Joerger trying to pick a fight with the front office.
That's incredibly important IMHO and often overlooked by those wanting Bagley to start. It's not who starts; it's who's on the court at the end when it matters the most. In addition, it's about who can keep the wheels from falling off when the starters have to take a breather. Would you rather have WCS start and Bagley come in to give us that punch? I know I would
All on terrible, losing teams. Some people seem to want to overlook that. A lot of empty stat stuffing. We all remember Tyreke doing that 10 years ago. At least I do.
Marvin joined a lottery team just like those players did. IIRC, 1 game separated Dallas and SAC last season. Yet the KINGS are a lot more improved than DAL and ATL.
MB3 is a big part of the reason for the major improvement. Every KINGS fan can see that they are a lot better with Marvin in the lineup than w/o. In fact, it can be easily argued that the KINGS playoff run ended the night MB3 suffered his knee sprain. He has become that valuable to a borderline playoff team.
IDK why individual stats on a bad team seem more impressive to some than being a major contributor to winning.
If MB3 hadn’t got hurt and was able to help lead the KINGS to their first playoff appearance in 12 years, THAT would have been a historic season.
Marvin joined a lottery team just like those players did. IIRC, 1 game separated Dallas and SAC last season. Yet the KINGS are a lot more improved than DAL and ATL.
MB3 is a big part of the reason for the major improvement. Every KINGS fan can see that they are a lot better with Marvin in the lineup than w/o. In fact, it can be easily argued that the KINGS playoff run ended the night MB3 suffered his knee sprain. He has become that valuable to a borderline playoff team.
IDK why individual stats on a bad team seem more impressive to some than being a major contributor to winning.
If MB3 hadn’t got hurt and was able to help lead the KINGS to their first playoff appearance in 12 years, THAT would have been a historic season.
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Smh the Tyrese Evans talk is the absolute worst. Did you say that about Ben Simmons/Tatum/Mitchell too will you say that about Zion next year. It’s pretty clear a rookie shouldn’t hav a great year if he’s not on the Kings well compare to Tyreke no matter what.
Haha if we made the playoffs it’s not cause Bagley let us there lol stop it. Teams game plan for Fox them Hield, nobody says Bosh led he hat to a championship.
And you’re really gonna compare our situation to Atlanta/Dallas and say it’s cause of Bagley.
Bagley isn’t having a historic year even if we had made the playoffs. Now go look at Young play hell Luka just broke the triple double rookie record. Bagley simply can’t do stuff Young/Luka can cause of position and rules, he will never create offense like them.
I honesty’s can’t belive we’re still talking about Tyreke
Haha if we made the playoffs it’s not cause Bagley let us there lol stop it. Teams game plan for Fox them Hield, nobody says Bosh led he hat to a championship.
And you’re really gonna compare our situation to Atlanta/Dallas and say it’s cause of Bagley.
Bagley isn’t having a historic year even if we had made the playoffs. Now go look at Young play hell Luka just broke the triple double rookie record. Bagley simply can’t do stuff Young/Luka can cause of position and rules, he will never create offense like them.
I honesty’s can’t belive we’re still talking about Tyreke
THE MOXIE! THE DESIRE TO TAKE ON THE OTHER TEAM'S ALPHA DOG! THE BELOW AVERAGE LATERAL AGILITY! THE INABILITY TO GET INTO A DEFENSIVE STANCE! THE BELOW AVERAGE DEFENSIVE AWARENESS THAT ALLOWED DE'AARON TO PRETTY MUCH BLOW BY HIM TO THE RIM DESPITE DE'AARON BEING A BETTER DRIVER THAN SHOOTER (seriously Luka, how you gonna just let him drive by you like that? Wouldn't you rather give up a jumper than just let the guy get to the rim?)!
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! THE 21ST CENTURY'S LARRY BIRD! (or something)
(Seriously though, Luka is a fantastic prospect, so is Marvin. Why can't we all just get along?)
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! THE 21ST CENTURY'S LARRY BIRD! (or something)
(Seriously though, Luka is a fantastic prospect, so is Marvin. Why can't we all just get along?)