Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)

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KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#721
#721
Section 101 said:
HOLY MOLY!!!!!

Luka with an air bomb corner 3 with .6 seconds left to tie the game.

Should have been an and one.
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Great shot, no doubt. But I told my wife before the play happened that I’m continually baffled how ridiculously dumb NBA coaches are defending the 3 point line in situations like that.

Portland had 4 of their 5 players INSIDE the 3 point line and all with a foot in the paint or just a foot or two outside of it? Why?

Damien Lillard is standing just outside the circle under the basket with his back to the inbounder. Why?

If they want to throw it anywhere inside the 3 pt line, game over. So why are all but one defender standing inside the arc? It’s the most riciduclous thing I see and I see it all the time.

If Portland takes all 5 players and surrounds the arc by standing on it or a half a foot or so above it and watches the imbounders eyes, there’s little chance to make a successful pass, let alone get a shot off.

Un-freaking-believable. I don’t care who the teams are. That kind of ridiculous strategy irks me to no end.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#722
#722
KingsFanSince85 said:
Great shot, no doubt. But I told my wife before the play happened that I’m continually baffled how ridiculously dumb NBA coaches are defending the 3 point line in situations like that.

Portland had 4 of their 5 players INSIDE the 3 point line and all with a foot in the paint or just a foot or two outside of it? Why?

Damien Lillard is standing just outside the circle under the basket with his back to the inbounder. Why?

If they want to throw it anywhere inside the 3 pt line, game over. So why are all but one defender standing inside the arc? It’s the most riciduclous thing I see and I see it all the time.

If Portland takes all 5 players and surrounds the arc by standing on it or a half a foot or so above it and watches the imbounders eyes, there’s little chance to make a successful pass, let alone get a shot off.

Un-freaking-believable. I don’t care who the teams are. That kind of ridiculous strategy irks me to no end.
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Not even the first big play the Blazers blew in this game.

You give a kid that much space and he's gonna score.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#730
#730
burekijogurt said:
ok guys, you cannot be serious, are we really minimizing what he did there and blaming it on poor D? .6 seconds, down 3, catch and shoot, falling away, fouled! can't we just say nice play?
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Goes along with the history here. There's a deep, embedded inferiority complex.

If Luka was a King the convo would be quite different.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#731
#731
Tetsujin said:
But the defender let him get to where he wanted to go. You know that guys are always going to go for that short corner three that's why you've gotta push them off that pocket.
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You've gotta be kidding me. WTF man. What's so hard about just giving the guy credit for an incredibly difficult and clutch shot?
 
K

Kangztillidie

Bench
#733
#733
sergmatt said:
It's embarrassing really. Does it really make someone less of a Kings fan to admit that another player is good or made an amazing play?

Everything doesn't have to be either/or
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Naw man. He made a good play.

Problem is this whole Luka love has gotten almost asexual. He has nothing the Kings are missing. The Kings lack perimeter defense, rebounding and interior defense.

This whole thread is a form of love of a player who offers nothing that the Kings need yet it persists. It wouldn't result in one more win for the Kings, and would probably be a few more losses if you swapped picks and played boss baby on the Kings. But hey. Enjoy.
 
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Hansel

Hansel

Bench
#734
#734
Some threads are closed to reply, but open to read.
That's what I wrote last May before the draft
Hansel said:
He's gonna be close to ASG level from day one.
Unfortunately he'll be the first pick.
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Hope it makes sense now, even if my comment was defined "way off the mark". Maybe not.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#736
#736
Kangztillidie said:
Naw man. He made a good play.

Problem is this whole Luka love has gotten almost asexual. He has nothing the Kings are missing. The Kings lack perimeter defense, rebounding and interior defense.

This whole thread is a form of love of a player who offers nothing that the Kings need yet it persists. It wouldn't result in one more win for the Kings, and would probably be a few more losses if you swapped picks and played boss baby on the Kings. But hey. Enjoy.
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Yet you keep coming in to the thread over and over to trash other posters for chatting about Luka. You seem to enjoy this thread as much as anybody.

Furthermore as has been discussed adnauseum, conventional wisdom is that when you are drafting at the top of the lottery (especially Top-3) you take the absolute best player available. You don't draft for need. That's how Portland passed on Michael Jordan because they already had Drexler and they "needed" a big man.

Not saying Luka is Jordan of course. The Kings should have and hopefully did draft Bagley because they thought he was going to be a better player plain and simple.
 
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#739
#739
sergmatt said:
It's embarrassing really. Does it really make someone less of a Kings fan to admit that another player is good or made an amazing play?

Everything doesn't have to be either/or
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MOD VOICE: That goes both ways. Some of the comments in here FROM BOTH SIDES are beyond ridiculous. The pushing of buttons is absurd. What's embarrassing is the lengths some (again on both sides) go to try and make the other look silly ... or wrong. THAT'S where the embarrassment comes in.

This is Kingsfans.com We're here because we're KINGS FANS. Reading this thread, it's hard sometimes to remember that. People can choose to be civil in regards to Luka and his performance, but it seems any criticism is immediately cause for outrage and consternation.

The kid is good - damned good - and he's only going to get better. That's pretty much a given. He is NOT perfect, however, and he's certainly not above criticism - especially considering how uber-critical we get about our own players.

We didn't draft him. He wears the jersey of the Dallas Mavericks. I honestly think it might be beneficial for those of you who truly are FANS of his to check out a Mavericks forum and maybe join them to add to your ability to share your enthusiasm. I'm not saying to leave here by any means. I'm just saying there are whole board out there more suited to Doncic fandom than here. www.Dallas-Mavs.com is probably the largest (at least to my knowledge).
 
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#740
#740
sergmatt said:
That needs to stop? But the post below it (#733) from Kangz calling people metrosexuals and Mommas' Boys for liking Luka is acceptable?

Great unbiased mod work there....
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No, it's not acceptable which is why that post was edited. But feel free to keep overreacting without giving me - or any other mod - a chance to take action. You could have saved us a headache and reported the post.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#741
#741
VF21 said:
That goes both ways. Some of the comments in here FROM BOTH SIDES are beyond ridiculous. The pushing of buttons is absurd. What's embarrassing is the lengths some (again on both sides) go to try and make the other look silly ... or wrong. THAT'S where the embarrassment comes in.

This is Kingsfans.com We're here because we're KINGS FANS. Reading this thread, it's hard sometimes to remember that. People can choose to be civil in regards to Luka and his performance, but it seems any criticism is immediately cause for outrage and consternation.

The kid is good - damned good - and he's only going to get better. That's pretty much a given. He is NOT perfect, however, and he's certainly not above criticism - especially considering how uber-critical we get about our own players.

We didn't draft him. He wears the jersey of the Dallas Mavericks. I honestly think it might be beneficial for those of you who truly are FANS of his to check out a Mavericks forum and maybe join them to add to your ability to share your enthusiasm. I'm not saying to leave here by any means. I'm just saying there are whole board out there more suited to Doncic fandom than here. www.Dallas-Mavs.com is probably the largest (at least to my knowledge).
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All good points some of which I agree with and some I dont. This thread is in the general NBA section though which is not where most of the members hang out.

I'll ask you this though. Does Tyreke Evans still play for the Kings?

There is a thread on this sub-forum dedicated to him this year. It gets very little action and almost all of it comes from Slim.

Personally I think Tyreke Evans is not very good and never was. Always thought he was overrated. Never liked his style of play. I could go into that thread like a jackass and start saying these things about Tyreke but what would it accomplish other than starting an unnecessary argument?

For all those that dislike Luka so much it just discussing him in general....what's stopping them from showing the same restraint?
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#742
#742
sergmatt said:
You've gotta be kidding me. WTF man. What's so hard about just giving the guy credit for an incredibly difficult and clutch shot?
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I didn't not give him credit. The Blazer pooped their pants in the 4th quarter and it was the rest of Luka's team that made up the deficit and that needs to be acknowledged as well.

I realize that highlight plays are highlight plays for a reason but if we're going to praise the buzzer beater (Buddy hit almost the exact same shot, with more time on the clock of course, tonight BTW) and use it as an indicator of how awesome he's going to be, we also need to talk about how Luka whiffed bad on Dame's game sealing basket in overtime and randomly played the last couple of possessions of the game like there were still five minutes in the game and his team had the lead.

Of course in this thread saying anything less than Luka is going to be Lebron 2.0 is likely to get you chewed out.

Luka's going to be the ROY (although JJJ is making a strong case for consideration as well) and we've all known that since the day he declared for the draft. That doesn't mean the dude is perfect.
 
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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#743
#743
sergmatt said:
All good points some of which I agree with and some I dont. This thread is in the general NBA section though which is not where most of the members hang out.

I'll ask you this though. Does Tyreke Evans still play for the Kings?

There is a thread on this sub-forum dedicated to him this year. It gets very little action and almost all of it comes from Slim.

Personally I think Tyreke Evans is not very good and never was. Always thought he was overrated. Never liked his style of play. I could go into that thread like a jackass and start saying these things about Tyreke but what would it accomplish other than starting an unnecessary argument.

For all those that dislike Luka so much it just discussing him in general....what's stopping them from showing the same restraint?
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Has anyone posting in this thread even said that they dislike Luka?
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#744
#744
Tetsujin said:
I didn't not give him credit. The Blazer pooped their pants in the 4th quarter and it was the rest of Luka's team that made up the deficit and that needs to be acknowledged as well.

I realize that highlight plays are highlight plays for a reason but if we're going to praise the buzzer beater (Buddy hit almost the exact same shot, with more time on the clock of course, tonight BTW) and use it as an indicator of how awesome he's going to be, we also need to talk about how Luka whiffed bad on Dame's game sealing basket in overtime and randomly played the last couple of possessions of the game like there were still five minutes in the game and his team had the lead.

Of course in this thread saying anything less than Luka is going to be Lebron 2.0 is likely to get you chewed out.
.
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:rolleyes: You're just further proving my (and others) point.

Buddy's shot was only somewhat similar. He wasn't as close to the baseline and sideline, wasn't fading away as much, a defender wasn't as close.....and oh yeah it wasn't with 0.6 left at the end of the game to tie the game. Context matters. Time and score.

And no we don't need to talk about all the other nonsense you mentioned regarding the Blazers when somebody hit's a game tying buzzer beater fadeaway three from the corner with a defender draped all over him. The shot in itself was a story, regardless of who shot it, it was going to make all the highlight reels regardless. The fact that Luka shot it of course adds to the hype.

You made the posts that you did because you knew it would antagonize the people that were Luka fans and/or admiring the shot.
 
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#745
#745
sergmatt said:
All good points some of which I agree with and some I dont. This thread is in the general NBA section though which is not where most of the members hang out.

I'll ask you this though. Does Tyreke Evans still play for the Kings?

There is a thread on this sub-forum dedicated to him this year. It gets very little action and almost all of it comes from Slim.

Personally I think Tyreke Evans is not very good and never was. Always thought he was overrated. Never liked his style of play. I could go into that thread like a jackass and start saying these things about Tyreke but what would it accomplish other than starting an unnecessary argument?

For all those that dislike Luka so much it just discussing him in general....what's stopping them from showing the same restraint?
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What's the difference? Tyreke Evans was a King - twice - so there's at least some tie to us. There was also a thread for Isaiah Thomas and Demarcus Cousins, both of whom were also Kings.

The only reason you get so much pushback on Luka is that he was NEVER a King. He wasn't drafted by us and there's probably no chance he ever will be a King. This thread has become a miniature Lukafans.com and, as such, you're gonna have to accept that not everyone is going to find that very palatable. It's rare for a board to even have a thread about another team's player.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#746
#746
VF21 said:
What's the difference? Tyreke Evans was a King - twice - so there's at least some tie to us. There was also a thread for Isaiah Thomas and Demarcus Cousins, both of whom were also Kings.

The only reason you get so much pushback on Luka is that he was NEVER a King. He wasn't drafted by us and there's probably no chance he ever will be a King. This thread has become a miniature Lukafans.com and, as such, you're gonna have to accept that not everyone is going to find that very palatable. It's rare for a board to even have a thread about another team's player.
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He was projected to go #1 or more likely #2 in the draft.
Many draft experts thought he would be taken at #2 by the Kings in the draft.
He's the most hyped and accomplished European player ever to come to the NBA.
There was substantial debate on this forum about whether the Kings would/should draft Luka at #2
So far he has exceeded expectations and is garnering a ton of attention around the NBA
Has proven to be incredibly clutch down the stretch, as of a couple weeks ago was ranked #1 Clutch shooter in the NBA

It's not that difficult to understand why there would be so much talk about him here (and it's just talk.....not a big deal in the grand scheme of things). At least in the short term he is linked to the Kings whether they drafted him or not. A lot of people thought they were going to draft him, obviously the Kings very seriously considered it.

What's so wrong with discussing Luka? Why the push back? If one doesn't want to read about Luka here they can mostly avoid it by avoiding this thread. It's not a difficult concept unless someone is looking to be contentious.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#747
#747
burekijogurt said:
ok guys, you cannot be serious, are we really minimizing what he did there and blaming it on poor D? .6 seconds, down 3, catch and shoot, falling away, fouled! can't we just say nice play?
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Why are you making this into something it isn't. My comments had zero to do with Luka. Props to him or anyone that makes a shot like that. But it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm speaking purely as a basketball fan and solely about common sense strategy. If that shot happened to the KINGS under the same circumstances, I don't care who in the hell made it -- I'd be on tilt! Conversely, if the KINGS were the ones that made the shot, I'd be ecstatic yet LMFAO at the ineptitude of the team that allowed it to happen.

I'll compare it to the Patriots giving up the 'Miami Miracle' play a couple weeks back (I'm a Dolphins fan). A play that was made a lot more possible by inept defensive strategy. Same applies to what Portland did at the end of the 4th Q. They played it as if a 2 point basket could hurt them when it would have been the best possible outcome. What frustrates me as a basketball fan -- and sports fan in general -- is stupidity. And their defensive strategy was plain stupidity. There's no way to spin it as anything different. Portland is extremely fortunate that they managed to win in OT. If I was a Trail Blazers fan, I'd be livid with Terry Stotts.

Why would you have a single defender near the basket or anywhere near the paint, let alone 4 of them? Considering from where the ball was being inbounded, there's no sound explanation for not having a defender in each corner at the 3 point line (the easiest and likeliest place for the ball to go since it was the shortest pass). And the other 3 defenders should be defending the arc and looking to deflect any (long) pass that comes that way. If the opponent is somehow able to connect on the pass and make a shot like Luka did, you tip your cap. But you gotta make it as difficult as possible. Portland came nowhere close to doing that and, instead, looked as if they had no clue what the situation was. That is inexcusable.
 
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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#748
#748
sergmatt said:
:rolleyes: You're just further proving my (and others) point.

Buddy's shot was only somewhat similar. He wasn't as close to the baseline and sideline, wasn't fading away as much, a defender wasn't as close.....and oh yeah it wasn't with 0.6 left at the end of the game to tie the game. Context matters. Time and score.

And no we don't need to talk about all the other nonsense you mentioned regarding the Blazers when somebody hit's a game tying buzzer beater fadeaway three from the corner with a defender draped all over him. The shot in itself was a story, regardless of who shot it, it was going to make all the highlight reels regardless. The fact that Luka shot it of course adds to the hype.

You made the posts that you did because you knew it would antagonize the people that were Luka fans and/or admiring the shot.
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Well this is certainly an opinion.

Here's my thing with Luka. Nothing he's been doing has exceeded my expectations. Now it maybe because I had ridiculously high expectations of the dude in the first place and that's why I wanted to draft him (seriously, go back to before the draft and read my several hundred posts worth of praise for the guy).

Luka has been awesomely crafty on offense, bad on defense (whether due to lack of effort or conditioning, the fact that one of the better defensive bigs in the league and a bunch of solid 3-and-D dudes are around him can only mask so much), and also going to win rookie of the year. None of this was outside of my expectations for the dude.

I'm not trying to come off antagonistic. I'm just trying to have a semi-reasoned conversation about one of the more unique prospects to come through the league in a couple of years beyond a surface "HEY GUYS LUKA IS THE GREATEST OKAY BYE FIRE VLADE!" level.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#749
#749
Tetsujin said:
Has anyone posting in this thread even said that they dislike Luka?
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I love Luka. The fact that the KINGS didn't draft him doesn't change that. But the fallout and fan division that's developed over it has completely clouded the minds of many on this site. They are choosing to read into things and connect dots that have no business being connected.

What Portland chose to do (or not do) defensively on the final play of regulation happens a lot more frequently than it should in the NBA and that was the point of discussion (from my end). Not the player that stepped up to benefit from it.
 
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