DeAaron Fox

[The Hammer]

If you want to really wrap your mind around how great Fox could become, here is a fascinating stat: For every shot attempt he's made this season, he is producing 1.45 points. This is Jerry Reynold's old method of scoring efficiency.

For some perspective, Curry's efficiency in Yr 2 was 1.3, in Yr 3 it was 1.29, in Yr 4 it was 1.29, and this year, in his 10th year, it is 1.49. Durant's efficiency in Yr 2 was 1.35. In his third year it was 1.48; this year it is 1.51. Lillard's scoring efficiency was 1.3 in Yr 2, 1.26 in Yr 3, 1.27 in Yr 4, and for this year in his 7th season it is 1.41.

If Fox keeps up this kind of scoring efficiency, we're looking at a real phenom. No doubt about it.

I'm inventing a new statistic. It's called the Torque Ratio, and is a measure of offensive efficiency combined with ball possession.

It is:

Double the 3pt% x Turnover Differential (we're at -2.2, good) x Assist to Turnover ratio x points per shot.

I am inventing this statistic strictly for the purpose of explaining the strengths of our team (I believe we would rank highly in this calculation), and of our main stars (Buddy and Fox have been performing great in all these areas). I believer our style of play as constructed, is designed to play a highly efficient and "high torque" game.











We are:

(.387(2)) x (-2.2) x (1.7) x (1.25) = TORQUE RATIO OF -3.62.

^ ^ ^ ^

3pt (x2) x (Tdiff) x (A/TO) x (PPS)


*Bigger negative number is better as it relies on a negative turnover differential as a key component.
**The reason I double the 3pt% is because I want that to simply be a stronger amplifier. Yes, it is partially accounted for in PPS, but again, this is geared towards the Kings style, and when we're making our threes, we win. PPS also accounts for other strengths such as drawing fouls and making free throws, which are important, but the specific taking and making of threes as a style of play is a feature of our game that has other benefits and puts pressure (or Torque) on the defense. Conversely, forcing turnovers (while still protecting the ball), is our defense applying defensive Torque to their offense, specifically because it creates fast break opportunities and potentially easy buckets. If I was getting really complex, I'd add defensive FG% allowed, but that changes the direction of the metric (it's the only number you'd want "smaller"). No need to complicate it too much. I don't believe these four metrics have been combined in this way. I think these numbers might tell our story.

Let's keep an eye on this number for the Kings as a team. I could track individual, and may do so later. But this stat as a team I believe is a good measure of how well the KINGS play THEIR game.


Our Torque Ratio Currently:
-3.62

 

[Kingster]

I'm inventing a new statistic. It's called the Torque Ratio, and is a measure of offensive efficiency combined with ball possession.

It is:

Double the 3pt% x Turnover Differential (we're at -2.2, good) x Assist to Turnover ratio x points per shot.

I am inventing this statistic strictly for the purpose of explaining the strengths of our team (I believe we would rank highly in this calculation), and of our main stars (Buddy and Fox have been performing great in all these areas). I believer our style of play as constructed, is designed to play a highly efficient and "high torque" game.

Now all you have to do is apply the formula to every NBA player for comparison purposes. Let me know when you get that done!

 

[The Hammer]

Now all you have to do is apply the formula to every NBA player for comparison purposes. Let me know when you get that done!

It honestly would be super interesting to have that computed for each individual player. Could probably import data into excel and do that fairly easily. If I feel like it. Haha. Ideally I'd love to have each team's and each players. But one step at a time.

 

[NewArena]

Man, when Fox keeps getting to line consistently and improving that free throw shot, he’s gonna be putting up 40 and 50 points in a game some time soon

 

[mac]

When the draft was being held, who'd have thought that "bad shooter" De'Aaron Fox would turn into a 40%+ 3pt shooter and Markelle "Future Harden" Fultz would shoot free throws like someone was stabbing him in the arm with an ice pick.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1062156487206756353

Been working out with Chuck Hayes I see.

 

[kb02]

Been working out with Chuck Hayes I see.

Thought Fultz was overrated and undeserving of the #1 pick, but this mental yips thing is simply beyond imagination.

Fox's progression shouldn't be surprising to anyone who looked at it objectively:

1. His shot would improve.
2. He would put on weight over time.
3. He was mature beyond his years. Had the best head on his shoulders of that year's draftees.
4. Had shown a commitment to defense in college (Pat Beverly is one of his heroes).

The above projections were almost givens. They weren't based on him needing to develop extra athleticism (few do, Russ did, Doncic hopefully as he slims down) or Fox needing to grow a few extra inches.

The one surprising thing that has accelerated is his vision. He was one speed last year. Mostly because he had poor vision and anticipation. This year, he's playing at multiple speeds, mostly to set up defenders and to set up his teammates.

Enjoy it. We got a 10 year beast at the 1 spot.

 

[burekijogurt]

I am not really sure how Fox is doing what he is doing. To be honest, I thought that last year he was a poor shooter, at best an average finisher at the basket, made more poor decisions than good ones as a playmaker, and played bad defense most of the time. So I do not understand how one can start shooting that well, start finishing at high percentage at the rim AND get to the line, show great growth as a playmaker (this one is the key), and improve the defensive consistency that much, all in one year. And, for me, it has taken some time to sink in what is happening. He still makes mistakes, but more and more he hits the shot, finishes at the rim, makes the right pass, and locks down the opponent.

 

[kb02]

I am not really sure how Fox is doing what he is doing. To be honest, I thought that last year he was a poor shooter, at best an average finisher at the basket, made more poor decisions than good ones as a playmaker, and played bad defense most of the time. So I do not understand how one can start shooting that well, start finishing at high percentage at the rim AND get to the line, show great growth as a playmaker (this one is the key), and improve the defensive consistency that much, all in one year. And, for me, it has taken some time to sink in what is happening. He still makes mistakes, but more and more he hits the shot, finishes at the rim, makes the right pass, and locks down the opponent.

I would start here: 3. He was mature beyond his years. Had the best head on his shoulders of that year's draftees.

 

[tastyburger]

What I've learned from all these years of nonsense is that nonsense is the most predictable part of kings basketball. And nonsense can be both good, bad and excellent. In the case now, fox is one of the cases of excellence. Crossing my fingers he doesnt tear his acl and become another tyreke in the long run (knock on wood, sorry guys)

 

[tastyburger]

I'm just so used to being disappointed that this success seems like a mistake, and I'll be a sorry, sad, pessimist if this team falls apart in the next few weeks. Hoping for the success, but we're still the kings and i will temper my expectations accordingly.

 

[miltonap]

I'm just so used to being disappointed that this success seems like a mistake, and I'll be a sorry, sad, pessimist if this team falls apart in the next few weeks. Hoping for the success, but we're still the kings and i will temper my expectations accordingly.

Nah, everything is different now. Barring some freak injury, everything is going smoothly from top to bottom. Hasnt happened since the early 2000s.

 

[Kangztillidie]

What I've learned from all these years of nonsense is that nonsense is the most predictable part of kings basketball. And nonsense can be both good, bad and excellent. In the case now, fox is one of the cases of excellence. Crossing my fingers he doesnt tear his acl and become another tyreke in the long run (knock on wood, sorry guys)

Jesus Christ man dont say some crap like that!!!!! Hell wrong with you?

 

[Double-K]

3. He was mature beyond his years. Had the best head on his shoulders of that year's draftees.

I thought you were about to give his haircut a compliment...

 

[KingsFanSince85]

^^ I’ve always enjoyed that look. It works for him.

 

[206Fan]

I want to critique him for something

Thought Fultz was overrated and undeserving of the #1 pick, but this mental yips thing is simply beyond imagination.

Fox's progression shouldn't be surprising to anyone who looked at it objectively:

1. His shot would improve.
2. He would put on weight over time.
3. He was mature beyond his years. Had the best head on his shoulders of that year's draftees.
4. Had shown a commitment to defense in college (Pat Beverly is one of his heroes).

The above projections were almost givens. They weren't based on him needing to develop extra athleticism (few do, Russ did, Doncic hopefully as he slims down) or Fox needing to grow a few extra inches.

The one surprising thing that has accelerated is his vision. He was one speed last year. Mostly because he had poor vision and anticipation. This year, he's playing at multiple speeds, mostly to set up defenders and to set up his teammates.

Enjoy it. We got a 10 year beast at the 1 spot.

It's not a guarantee that shots improve though. Some examples would be Emmanuel Mudiay, Marcus Smart, Dante Exum, and MCW. Not almost a given no matter how much of a gym rat a player is. Shooting isn't something that comes easy. Imo, it's the hardest skill to learn when you're a poor shooter which Fox was in college. He's not going to sustain his 44.2%. I wouldn't even be surprised if it even went down to 33% for the season, BUT he has dramatically improved his shot and his confidence in his 3pt shot. We have a star in the making.

 

[The Hammer]

Man, when Fox keeps getting to line consistently and improving that free throw shot, he’s gonna be putting up 40 and 50 points in a game some time soon

He has a real chance to be an all star... THIS year.

Also, I just realized this. We've basically gotten to where we are WITHOUT Bogi. Yes he was key in Spurs win... but just think about that... we haven't even had our 3rd best player. This team could seriously be scary good with some time and some breaks.

 

[Nokidding]

The biggest threat to Fox become a good player might be a Doug Christie uppercut if Doug suddenly becomes confused

 

[Blob]

I love how Foxy proves the defense into the lane and uses his body and quick shiftyness to create space for a shot or pass. Very Tony Parker like. He is very under control in the paint and it's only going to get better. Dude can get a shot whenever he feels like it, it seems. Kudos to him for the hard work and study he put into the offseason.

I dont think any PG has really outplayed him yet this year head to head. And he has gone against some real good ones. Be interesting to see his matchup vs Curry.

He learned from Boggy (and/or watching tape of Conley and Westbrook) that when he turns the corner on his man to get him on his back. You sort of slow down and step in front of his path. Then you know where he is and render him out of the play. That way the defender cannot challenge the shot from the side. Mason does the same thing. Then you can shoot the short shot and throw the lob. Fox was not doing this as much last year when he was turning the corner out of the pick and roll he was not putting his defender in this disadvantageous position. This bodes well for him to maintain his 19 PPG average.

 

[rosa u podne]

He has a real chance to be an all star... THIS year.

Also, I just realized this. We've basically gotten to where we are WITHOUT Bogi. Yes he was key in Spurs win... but just think about that... we haven't even had our 3rd best player. This team could seriously be scary good with some time and some breaks.

Besides Fox, who is better then Bogdan?

 

[Kangztillidie]

He learned from Boggy (and/or watching tape of Conley and Westbrook) that when he turns the corner on his man to get him on his back. You sort of slow down and step in front of his path. Then you know where he is and render him out of the play. That way the defender cannot challenge the shot from the side. Mason does the same thing. Then you can shoot the short shot and throw the lob. Fox was not doing this as much last year when he was turning the corner out of the pick and roll he was not putting his defender in this disadvantageous position. This bodes well for him to maintain his 19 PPG average.

Not just maintain but increase the ppg!! He already looks pretty good at it, and once he has 100% confidence in doing it his outside shooting will help open up a world of opportunity for him.

I notice he isnt getting his shot blocked much anymore after the Gobert experiment...

 

[Blob]

I think this is one of the primary reasons that Vlade thought that Bagley would be a better fit with Fox. Vlade did not want to take the ball out of his young point guards hands. Vlade knew that he had a potential superstar in Fox at PG and knew he needed the ball to be most effective.

This is exactly what I was saying before the draft as basis to take him over Luka. The counter argument from this board was always you cannot have too many ball handlers. So then what, Fox goes and stands in the corner and defers to a guy who is LESS effective at creating space and breaking down the defense?! No way. If you did not believe in Fox then you were more likely on the Luka Bandwagon. I would also contend that part of the thought process that Boggy is a superior shot creator and point wing than Luka. This is not some much a criticism of Luka, who has been okay not great with the ball in his hands, (4.4 assists to 4.1 turnovers, barely over 1:1) but reflects how good Boggy is at working the pick and roll. I would bet you in private conversations that Vlade would say he thinks Boggy is better player than Luka. Again not a criticism of Luka but the high esteem in which he holds the Serbian Sensation.

 

[Kangztillidie]

Besides Fox, who is better then Bogdan?

I'd argue to this point so far Buddy has been. But that probably might not continue once Bogie has his sea legs.

 

[Blob]

Besides Fox, who is better then Bogdan?

I am sure he is referring to Buddy. I personally think Boggy is a tad better overall than Buddy, but it is negligible debate. I have always projected stardom for Buddy. But if I had to choose to between the two players, I would take Boggy. It is close, but Boggy gives you more defensively and can run the point effectively. Buddy is the more dynamic scorer and better off the ball.

 

[rosa u podne]

I don't want to dabate, I was just curious. I don't want Peja-Webber debate reincarnation.

 

[Blob]

I'm inventing a new statistic. It's called the Torque Ratio, and is a measure of offensive efficiency combined with ball possession.

It is:

Double the 3pt% x Turnover Differential (we're at -2.2, good) x Assist to Turnover ratio x points per shot.

I am inventing this statistic strictly for the purpose of explaining the strengths of our team (I believe we would rank highly in this calculation), and of our main stars (Buddy and Fox have been performing great in all these areas). I believer our style of play as constructed, is designed to play a highly efficient and "high torque" game.

View attachment 8465

View attachment 8466

View attachment 8467

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We are:

(.387(2)) x (-2.2) x (1.7) x (1.25) = TORQUE RATIO OF -3.62.

^ ^ ^ ^

3pt (x2) x (Tdiff) x (A/TO) x (PPS)


*Bigger negative number is better as it relies on a negative turnover differential as a key component.
**The reason I double the 3pt% is because I want that to simply be a stronger amplifier. Yes, it is partially accounted for in PPS, but again, this is geared towards the Kings style, and when we're making our threes, we win. PPS also accounts for other strengths such as drawing fouls and making free throws, which are important, but the specific taking and making of threes as a style of play is a feature of our game that has other benefits and puts pressure (or Torque) on the defense. Conversely, forcing turnovers (while still protecting the ball), is our defense applying defensive Torque to their offense, specifically because it creates fast break opportunities and potentially easy buckets. If I was getting really complex, I'd add defensive FG% allowed, but that changes the direction of the metric (it's the only number you'd want "smaller"). No need to complicate it too much. I don't believe these four metrics have been combined in this way. I think these numbers might tell our story.

Let's keep an eye on this number for the Kings as a team. I could track individual, and may do so later. But this stat as a team I believe is a good measure of how well the KINGS play THEIR game.


Our Torque Ratio Currently:
-3.62

Check out the Big Brain on Brad Hammer

 

[Blob]

What I've learned from all these years of nonsense is that nonsense is the most predictable part of kings basketball. And nonsense can be both good, bad and excellent. In the case now, fox is one of the cases of excellence. Crossing my fingers he doesnt tear his acl and become another tyreke in the long run (knock on wood, sorry guys)

Who peed in your cornflakes?

 

[The Hammer]

Besides Fox, who is better then Bogdan?

Was being conservative, but both Buddy and WCS has been putting up some pretty good #'s... but you might very well be correct... Bogi is basically our #2. Fox is clearly our number one, and then we have about 3 guys that are young and improving at an incredibly rapid rate, so it's hard to tell when they are all improving so fast!

 

[The Hammer]

Check out the Big Brain on Brad Hammer
View attachment 8473

Lol if I was really big brained I'd import all the relevant date into a excel spread sheet and have the formulas build into the column so I could easily keep running track of each teams Torque Ratio as well as individual players. Probably just too lazy for that tbh lol.


Actually does anybody know of any stat sites that you can export the data in excel files??

 

[Tetsujin]

I don't want to dabate, I was just curious. I don't want Peja-Webber debate reincarnation.

The good thing is that everyone here seems to be in agreement that Fox is our best player whereas the Adelman teams were so good at distributing the ball that Peja scored like a number one option and people starting thinking he was better than C-Webb (spoilers: He wasn't)

 

[tastyburger]

Who peed in your cornflakes?

if i say it, it probably won't happen lol. At least that's what my wife says...