Michael Porter Jr

[allrightythen]

Yeah, I had already seen that and many others while doing similar research. The one thing we don't know, and I'm sure that the Kings and other teams will certainly find out, is what were his symptoms prior to surgery. Back pain? Leg pain? From what I've read it's a fairly common surgery, and it's been done for years. The only major change is how it's become more of a minimum invasive surgery as opposed to being more of a major surgery.

I know that the success rate is high, and I would suspect that the younger you are the better your chances of full recovery. The other thing he has going for him,is that according to him, the pain started after a fall where he landed on his back. So the problem doesn't appear to be degenerative.

Yeah I don't think this really answers any questions about Porter directly, but just an idea of approximately what he was dealing with. It's one of the reasons I don't get too married to what I think the Kings should do. There are too many variables that I don't have.

I assume the Kings will have a chance to check him out pretty thoroughly. With the Kings at 2 and having shown interest in him, I imagine he'll be motivated to demonstrate his health and share all the medicals with them, but you never know. Clear medicals and a good workout or two could be enough to get him up into the top 3. Sure is a crazy draft.

 

[ockingsfan]

Here's a video of MPJ at the NBA combine talking about his injury and recovery.

https://www.nba.com/bulls/video/tea...00599/1526683139777-michael-porter-jr-2100599

He says he's 100% now. He played with his back injury since his sophmore year.

You have to think that the success the Kings had with rehabilitating Harry Giles knees goes into being comfortable taking MPJ at #2, coming off back surgery.

He seems like a very intelligent young man and seems respectful, much like DeArron Fox.

I sure hope the Kings are going to see him in a private workout soon. If he blows the Kings away in private workouts, then I am warming to taking him #2 overall.

Before the college season, MPJ was the player I wanted the Kings to draft if they got a top 3 pick. I was very disappointed and concerned when he went out with the back injury.

If he is truly 100% healthy, he will be a very high caliber and All Star level player in the NBA, I just pray that the Kings get it right if they take him #2.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah Porter doesn't have the passing chops to be Grant Hill.

That’s hard to say.... we haven’t seen Porter in college where he had to pass. That’s the problem with Porter.... it’s hard to make definitive statements pro or con.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah I don't think this really answers any questions about Porter directly, but just an idea of approximately what he was dealing with. It's one of the reasons I don't get too married to what I think the Kings should do. There are too many variables that I don't have.

I assume the Kings will have a chance to check him out pretty thoroughly. With the Kings at 2 and having shown interest in him, I imagine he'll be motivated to demonstrate his health and share all the medicals with them, but you never know. Clear medicals and a good workout or two could be enough to get him up into the top 3. Sure is a crazy draft.

Your being way too logical....

 

[bajaden]

That’s hard to say.... we haven’t seen Porter in college where he had to pass. That’s the problem with Porter.... it’s hard to make definitive statements pro or con.

One thing we do know is that he played PG at times when on the U17 team. I only saw one of those games, and while he made a couple of nice passes, it wasn't enough to be definitive. But one has to think that he must have been a pretty good passer for them to ask a 6'8" (at the time) player to play the point. Also speaks well of his ballhandling. But your right, we actually have no recent visual results to go on other than two games he probably shouldn't have participated in.

By the way in an interview he was asked why he did participate and he said at the time he felt fine, and the team had three regular rotational players that were injured and only six player left on the roster that were scholarship players and he was one of the six. The other three players weren't part of the regular rotation. So he felt he had an obligation to try and help his team win if he could. Apparently he was advised against participating. So its to his credit that he did, even though he knew it could possibly hurt his draft status.

 

[bajaden]

Here's a video of MPJ at the NBA combine talking about his injury and recovery.

https://www.nba.com/bulls/video/tea...00599/1526683139777-michael-porter-jr-2100599

He says he's 100% now. He played with his back injury since his sophmore year.

You have to think that the success the Kings had with rehabilitating Harry Giles knees goes into being comfortable taking MPJ at #2, coming off back surgery.

He seems like a very intelligent young man and seems respectful, much like DeArron Fox.

I sure hope the Kings are going to see him in a private workout soon. If he blows the Kings away in private workouts, then I am warming to taking him #2 overall.

Before the college season, MPJ was the player I wanted the Kings to draft if they got a top 3 pick. I was very disappointed and concerned when he went out with the back injury.

If he is truly 100% healthy, he will be a very high caliber and All Star level player in the NBA, I just pray that the Kings get it right if they take him #2.

Excellent interview and once again he explained why he decided to play at the end of the year. The more I read, and listen to the young man, the more impressed I'am with him. If the Kings work him out, and like what they see, I have no problem with them taking him with the 2nd pick. I have never questioned his talent, and if he's regained his athleticism and is pain free, why not?

 

[miltonap]

I can see his shooting translating for sure. Hes going to have growing pains with his frame and subpar ball handling. Kinda reminds me of Skal.

 

[John Galt]

You have to think that the success the Kings had with rehabilitating Harry Giles knees goes into being comfortable taking MPJ at #2, coming off back surgery.

I think the Kings have congratulated themselves on success a little prematurely there - have practically enshrined Giles in the HOF. Lets see it.

Sure hope they have been successful, but I'm not going to drive off the freeway if I suddenly hear on the radio "Harry Giles has undergone a minor and routine cleanup procedure on his knees.. expected in action by January".

 

[allrightythen]

Your being way too logical....

I know I don't fit in on internet message boards very well.

 

[ESP47]

That’s hard to say.... we haven’t seen Porter in college where he had to pass. That’s the problem with Porter.... it’s hard to make definitive statements pro or con.

I'm just saying I haven't seen him do anything remotely above average from a ball distribution standpoint outside of a play here or there.

I don't think anyone would put money on him coming into the league and averaging 5apg like Grant Hill did.

 

[BeerNerd916]

I think he is a legit 2 years away. My only question is if the fanbase can deal with those 2 years. I see him on a Brandon Ingram type arc but with more upside. Dude could be a legit star/superstar. It's one helluva gamble.

 

[roasthawg]

Mpj's wingspan was only 7'. By comparison he's an inch taller than KD but Durant's wingspan is 7'4". 7' is fine for a 3/4 but I would've liked to see freakish.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah it's obvious we're not drafting LeBron at #2 this year. I feel like the Luka fans here can't even admit that he's gonna be limited in the NBA by lack of elite athleticism. Thought that was pretty obvious. With his size and skill level he would literally be LeBron if he was an elite athlete too.

It's not my standards, it's NBA standards. Luka will be a sub par athlete on the wing in the NBA. Debating that is crazy because as I said the rest of his game profiles as LeBron lol. Seems to me like we're looking at a hayward or ginobli and like I said that's good enough for me at #2. Only guy I'm possibly putting over him (aside from Ayton) is mpj.

I’m intrigued by MPJ as well and if healthy I’m not sure it’s a reach. Guy is way longer than Luka and in high school shot .938 from free throws in high school.

 

[sactowndog]

Checked his high school free throw percentage. It was 30 / 32 so not sure I had more than league but it’s still .930 and last I checked the free throw line doesn’t change.

 

[roasthawg]

Checked his high school free throw percentage. It was 30 / 32 so not sure I had more than league but it’s still .930 and last I checked the free throw line doesn’t change.

Yeah don't think that's accurate. That's like a ft a game. I wouldn't put too much stock in HS score keeping either way. His numbers from the all star games will be legit though

 

[funkykingston]

Mpj's wingspan was only 7'. By comparison he's an inch taller than KD but Durant's wingspan is 7'4". 7' is fine for a 3/4 but I would've liked to see freakish.

And yet MPJ's standing reach is only 1.5" less than KD's. At 9' Porter's standing reach is the same as Anthony Davis.

 

[jcwkings]

I’m intrigued by MPJ as well and if healthy I’m not sure it’s a reach. Guy is way longer than Luka and in high school shot .938 from free throws in high school.

He also can't dribble the ball, doesn't have a great feel for game, doesn't play hard, questionable intangibles, is neither a 3 or 4, had serious back surgery at 19 years old. It's literally insane that people can be higher on him than Doncic because of high school tape where he is playing against children and Doncic has delivered in the second best competition in the world playing against grown men that are professionals. Im not a blind Doncic supporter and think Doncic, Bagley, Jackson Jr, and even Bamba are all viable at #2. I just find it sickening that the only player it's been reported the Kings are high in is Porter Jr. It would be a disaster.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah don't think that's accurate. That's like a ft a game. I wouldn't put too much stock in HS score keeping either way. His numbers from the all star games will be legit though

Last I checked the free throw line hasn’t moved. It’s division only. Could be more but accurate for league.

 

[sactowndog]

He also can't dribble the ball, doesn't have a great feel for game, doesn't play hard, questionable intangibles, is neither a 3 or 4, had serious back surgery at 19 years old. It's literally insane that people can be higher on him than Doncic because of high school tape where he is playing against children and Doncic has delivered in the second best competition in the world playing against grown men that are professionals. Im not a blind Doncic supporter and think Doncic, Bagley, Jackson Jr, and even Bamba are all viable at #2. I just find it sickening that the only player it's been reported the Kings are high in is Porter Jr. It would be a disaster.

Lots of certainty in your statement for a guy you haven’t seen play. And please tell me how free throws change? The lane and basket are the same height. His measurements aren’t made up either.

I’m not looking at high school tape to say I’m intrigued. Like I said I was sold on Luka until watching him play. Some legitimate questions with him.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Yeah it's obvious we're not drafting LeBron at #2 this year. I feel like the Luka fans here can't even admit that he's gonna be limited in the NBA by lack of elite athleticism. Thought that was pretty obvious. With his size and skill level he would literally be LeBron if he was an elite athlete too.

It's not my standards, it's NBA standards. Luka will be a sub par athlete on the wing in the NBA. Debating that is crazy because as I said the rest of his game profiles as LeBron lol. Seems to me like we're looking at a hayward or ginobli and like I said that's good enough for me at #2. Only guy I'm possibly putting over him (aside from Ayton) is mpj.

It’s that MPJ has a ways to go, athletically, to be an NBA SF, too. But, that gets glossed over because he does have good verticality to his game. He may be able to work on his range of motion, lateral agility, etc. now that his back is fixed, but what we have on film is a stretch 4 (IOW, a big shooter w/out playmaking). I keep harping on that...what we have on film. Stretch 4s do not have a #2 value.

MPJ has as much to work on, athletically, as Doncic and also needs to develop his game for the position we wish him to play. Whereas, Luka simply needs to work on his athletic deficiencies to be an All-Star SF, and further hone the ball skills he already has and used to be the Euroleague MVP. Moreover, critics are really just talking about his lack of poster dunks, and the vertical is the easiest thing to improve. He’ll bump it up 8”-10” w/ consistent NBA training. To be fair, MPJ probably will, too.

Two other things—people keep saying they would put MPJ at #2 if he looks good in a workout—since when do top 10 picks look bad, or even average, in an individual workout? This criteria is essentially saying “Well, if he gets to work on time, then I’m moving him ahead of Doncic”. It’s ridiculous. The problem with MPJ is that he hasn’t played since high school. A workout has no bearing on that issue. For reference, the Kings allegedly thought Giles was the best prospect in the draft last year. Did they draft him at #5? No. Did they draft him at 10? No. How about 15? Still no. And why? Because despite looking like a complete stud in a workout he still had an injury history and lack of college film. And Giles had better HS film! If you want MPJ then get creative, but taking him at #2 is unprofessionally risky and a fireable offense.

Last thing, I’m personally tired of the inherent, pernicious “bias” applied to players with Luka’s background and the automatic “unathletic” label. It’s really sickening that people still bring that level of “bias” to a basketball discussion in this day and age. But, let’s keep comparing him to Hayward and Manu. No “bias” there.

 

[miltonap]

Lots of certainty in your statement for a guy you haven’t seen play. And please tell me how free throws change? The lane and basket are the same height. His measurements aren’t made up either.

I’m not looking at high school tape to say I’m intrigued. Like I said I was sold on Luka until watching him play. Some legitimate questions with him.

Way less risk with Doncic than MPJ and not enough ceiling difference practically speaking. He has glaring holes in his game alluded to above, he is super raw, it would truly be a terrible decision at #2.

 

[sactowndog]

Way less risk with Doncic than MPJ and not enough ceiling difference practically speaking. He has glaring holes in his game alluded to above, he is super raw, it would truly be a terrible decision at #2.

I’m sorry but I find your post lacks credibility. Porter was in the conversation for the first overall pick prior to his injury. You allude to glaring holes in his game yet you haven’t seen him play. Offensively he is far from super raw.

While I’m not certain he is the best choice, I am sure your unbalanced, over the top response is questionable.

 

[sactowndog]

It’s that MPJ has a ways to go, athletically, to be an NBA SF, too. But, that gets glossed over because he does have good verticality to his game. He may be able to work on his range of motion, lateral agility, etc. now that his back is fixed, but what we have on film is a stretch 4 (IOW, a big shooter w/out playmaking). I keep harping on that...what we have on film. Stretch 4s do not have a #2 value.

MPJ has as much to work on, athletically, as Doncic and also needs to develop his game for the position we wish him to play. Whereas, Luka simply needs to work on his athletic deficiencies to be an All-Star SF, and further hone the ball skills he already has and used to be the Euroleague MVP. Moreover, critics are really just talking about his lack of poster dunks, and the vertical is the easiest thing to improve. He’ll bump it up 8”-10” w/ consistent NBA training. To be fair, MPJ probably will, too.

Two other things—people keep saying they would put MPJ at #2 if he looks good in a workout—since when do top 10 picks look bad, or even average, in an individual workout? This criteria is essentially saying “Well, if he gets to work on time, then I’m moving him ahead of Doncic”. It’s ridiculous. The problem with MPJ is that he hasn’t played since high school. A workout has no bearing on that issue. For reference, the Kings allegedly thought Giles was the best prospect in the draft last year. Did they draft him at #5? No. Did they draft him at 10? No. How about 15? Still no. And why? Because despite looking like a complete stud in a workout he still had an injury history and lack of college film. And Giles had better HS film! If you want MPJ then get creative, but taking him at #2 is unprofessionally risky and a fireable offense.

Last thing, I’m personally tired of the inherent, pernicious “bias” applied to players with Luka’s background and the automatic “unathletic” label. It’s really sickening that people still bring that level of “bias” to a basketball discussion in this day and age. But, let’s keep comparing him to Hayward and Manu. No “bias” there.

I would say the “bias” is on your end. I showed no such bias for Bogdan who showed he could guard Euro point guards and he had good length for his position. I could care less if Luka is Black, White or Purple. The compare with Hayward had to do with his length, size, position and multiple skill sets. Period....

Let’s hope Vlade isn’t a closed minded as some people have displayed in this thread.

 

[allrightythen]

It’s that MPJ has a ways to go, athletically, to be an NBA SF, too. But, that gets glossed over because he does have good verticality to his game. He may be able to work on his range of motion, lateral agility, etc. now that his back is fixed, but what we have on film is a stretch 4 (IOW, a big shooter w/out playmaking). I keep harping on that...what we have on film. Stretch 4s do not have a #2 value.

MPJ has as much to work on, athletically, as Doncic and also needs to develop his game for the position we wish him to play. Whereas, Luka simply needs to work on his athletic deficiencies to be an All-Star SF, and further hone the ball skills he already has and used to be the Euroleague MVP. Moreover, critics are really just talking about his lack of poster dunks, and the vertical is the easiest thing to improve. He’ll bump it up 8”-10” w/ consistent NBA training. To be fair, MPJ probably will, too.

Two other things—people keep saying they would put MPJ at #2 if he looks good in a workout—since when do top 10 picks look bad, or even average, in an individual workout? This criteria is essentially saying “Well, if he gets to work on time, then I’m moving him ahead of Doncic”. It’s ridiculous. The problem with MPJ is that he hasn’t played since high school. A workout has no bearing on that issue. For reference, the Kings allegedly thought Giles was the best prospect in the draft last year. Did they draft him at #5? No. Did they draft him at 10? No. How about 15? Still no. And why? Because despite looking like a complete stud in a workout he still had an injury history and lack of college film. And Giles had better HS film! If you want MPJ then get creative, but taking him at #2 is unprofessionally risky and a fireable offense.

Last thing, I’m personally tired of the inherent, pernicious “bias” applied to players with Luka’s background and the automatic “unathletic” label. It’s really sickening that people still bring that level of “bias” to a basketball discussion in this day and age. But, let’s keep comparing him to Hayward and Manu. No “bias” there.

A lot of stuff in this post.

I think criticisms of Doncic's athleticism come mostly from watching him. He doesn't display elite quickness, vertical leap, or foot speed in his game. Maybe he has it, but its not something he uses in game situations from the few games I've watched of him. I apologize if that comes across as some sort of pernicious bias, its simply an observation that I think several people here have pointed to as something they've noticed. Are there really people who compare Manu and Luka's athleticism? Maybe I'm bias because I love Manu, but I always thought a young/prime Manu was one of the better athletes in the NBA. I don't see the same thing in Luka's game.

There is a massive difference between Porter's injury and Giles'. Giles had ACL problems in both knees. MPJs injury was a single occurrence that he actually played through quite a bit until it was too much and needed to be fixed. Giles also had a lot more college film than Porter and teams saw how much of his athleticism that he still hadn't recovered. I think Giles was a fringe 1st. rounder on film if that. His workout did a lot for him IMO. Porter barely touched the floor this year and will have to use the workouts to show that his recovery in on or ahead of schedule.

At this point fans/analyst are all projecting how good of professionals these teenage kids will turn into. It's a boatload of guesswork masquerading as some sort of scientific analysis. We use height/wingspan/standing reach/vertical leap/SPARQ score(is that just an NFL thing?) and all their pre-NBA stats and hope that the algorithm its all plugged into actually means something. That's to say nothing of immeasurable things like "basketball IQ" and "motor" or "feel for the game." If someone believes something that seems crazy or unreasonable, then maybe that's because the process itself is inherently a little nuts.

 

[ockingsfan]

Here are a couple of nice Michael Porter Jr Highlights from the McDonalds All Star:

The USA vs the World Nike game:

Michael Porter Jr. Vs Marvin Bagley game:

The announcers are just gushing over him. I'm hoping if the Kings take him #2, his back is 110%.

MPJ definitely has a lot of talent. He could become an Alpha scorer in the NBA.

 

[miltonap]

I’m sorry but I find your post lacks credibility. Porter was in the conversation for the first overall pick prior to his injury. You allude to glaring holes in his game yet you haven’t seen him play. Offensively he is far from super raw.

While I’m not certain he is the best choice, I am sure your unbalanced, over the top response is questionable.

Aside from shooting, what aspect of his game do you actually see as developed. I really don't care where he was projected or what his free throw percentage was I have eyes and I trust those a lot more.

 

[Blob]

He also can't dribble the ball, doesn't have a great feel for game, doesn't play hard, questionable intangibles, is neither a 3 or 4, had serious back surgery at 19 years old. It's literally insane that people can be higher on him than Doncic .... I just find it sickening that the only player it's been reported the Kings are high in is Porter Jr. It would be a disaster.

Any Kings fan and student of the draft not adamant about bypassing this guy at #2 loses all credibility. Tall shooters who get high elevation on their jumpers are rarely efficient. Dirk is an exception. I can't think of many others. Add in the hesi-jumper, chicken legs and weak handles and this guy is a pending disaster. He is a 2-3 year project before he amounts to anything. Let me breakdown this video to cite examples not just borrowing opinions from college scouts who ranked this guy #1 against 5'6" 130 lb boys and based off all-star game where everyone goes half speed.

0:45 Jogs up floor. Does not sprint. Does not dunk the ball with authority.
1:15 Goes in meekly for offensive rebound and squirts the ball over the hoop
1:33 Iso alone on the mid post settles for fade away. Brick.
1:45 Wide open three at top of key misses by two feet.
1:55 Comes off curl and misses big for wide open dunk. Steps away from pressure and settles for ugly corkscrew shot.
2:15 Indecisive. Weak pick attempt. No attempt to attack the defense.
3:05 Poor job in transition. Low effort
3:25 Settles for contested jumper. No effort to create separation.
4:18 Does not go strong for the board. Ball falls into his lap and still loses it to teammate.
4:30 Drives left (his preferred direction). Cannot get step on defender. Takes ball back into defender and gets swatted.
5:05 Weak pick and circuitous roll to hoop. Weak fight for offensive board. Can barely jump.
5:45 After previous three, gets "thirsty" and launches contested shot without any attempt to get free.
6:10 Gets away with an illegal pick.

Now I will preemptively address the anticipated responses: (1) "You hate him. We get it." I don't hate him. I don't know him. I am sure he's a nice kid who works hard and eats his greens. I do hate his game because it sucks. (2) "He was coming off an injury so you cannot evaluate him fairly so soon. " To this I say he was healthy enough to play! He knew he would be making a strong impression with plenty of NBA scouts in attendance. He was auditioning for the NBA and looked like trash. (3) "You only picked out his bad plays". Not really! All his scores were uncontested. He didn't do anything in terms of athleticism or hustle.

This is the last impression this guy left on the basketball world before declaring himself the best player in the draft. He's a fraud. Excuse me if I place more weight on performance than his braggadocio words and anonymous scouting reports. Again, the sad part is Vlade will pick this guy if left to his preconceived delusional bias. He was willing to give Wes Matthews a max contract after busting his Achilles and said our 9-11 record to end the season with losses against the dregs of the league and wins over teams trying to lose was basis for optimism. He choked away the Boogie trade, drafted G-Leaguer Jackson and said the worst starting center in the NBA could be "elite". If capable of these wild misperceptions drafting Porter is his next "logical" step. Only Brandon Williams can save us now.

 

[sactowndog]

Aside from shooting, what aspect of his game do you actually see as developed. I really don't care where he was projected or what his free throw percentage was I have eyes and I trust those a lot more.

Aside from shooting? It’s a key part of the game. He can finish around the rim and shoot the three. He’s a three level scorer. Including shooting free throws at a high rate.

 

[miltonap]

Aside from shooting? It’s a key part of the game. He can finish around the rim and shoot the three. He’s a three level scorer. Including shooting free throws at a high rate.

Being able to create your own shot is important too. I see him struggling. You don't think he's raw? I'm not saying he will be bad but he's a risky project with the #2 pick in this draft.

 

[sactowndog]

Being able to create your own shot is important too. I see him struggling. You don't think he's raw? I'm not saying he will be bad but he's a risky project with the #2 pick in this draft.

I don’t see a risk free pick....

Luka - it’s not clear he can defend a position
Bagley - it’s not clear he can shoot from beyond 3 ft:
Bamba - can he find an offensive game

I’m not saying I would take him but I don’t see another sure fire player that I would write him off either. And I certainly wouldn’t form an opinion based on a couple games back after a long lay off.