Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

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funkykingston

funkykingston

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#481
#481
Entity said:
Exactly. So like I said against summer league talent 20+ 8+ 8+
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This is a bit of an odd angle you're chasing here. Is the goal to declare Doncic a failure if he doesn't post all-time great Summer League numbers?

James Harden played against Summer League talent and put up 14.5/3.3/3.0.

LeBron and Dwyane Wade both averaged under 16 points in Summer League.

Why you'd expect Doncic to put up 20 ppg and nearly average a triple double is beyond me.

jcwkings said:
I doubt he would play in Summer League considering he will still be playing for Real Madrid through June.
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Through June? Didn't he make reference to these last two games being the last ones he might ever play for Real Madrid? Either way, I'm not sure he plays in Summer League.
 
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Entity

Entity

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#482
#482
funkykingston said:
This is a bit of an odd approach you're chasing here. Is the goal to declare Doncic a failure if he doesn't post all-time great Summer League numbers?

James Harden played against Summer League talent and put up 14.5/3.3/3.0.

LeBron and Dwyane Wade both averaged under 16 points in Summer League.

Why you'd expect Doncic to put up 20 ppg and nearly average a triple double is beyond me.



Through June? Didn't he make reference to these last two games being the last ones he might ever play for Real Madrid? Either way, I'm not sure he plays in Summer League.
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Did bogdan play last year? I don’t remember
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#483
#483
Entity said:
Yes ive seen 20/7/7 and 18/8/8 his rookie year. So yeah if he could do that against NBA talent. It not reaching to say he could do it in a summer league against players that haven’t played professionally
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Your reading skills need a lot of polishing. I said at his peak he could be a 20/7/7 player. Have never said anything about his rookie stat line other than his game is mature enough that he could be in the running for ROY.
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#484
#484
ParniValjak said:
While I am concerned about Luka's athleticism I am not concerned in the slightest with his shooting.

He will be a 40% shooter from the 3PT line in time. He is a better shooter now than Bogdan was at the same age and I think we would all agree that Bogdan is a pretty good shooter who will get better once he gets more comfortable with the NBA 3PT line.

Luka will be no different. His shot is already good but will get better. He will speed up his release and become more accurate shooter. His shooting is the least of my concern. I think at his peak he could be a 20/7/7 type player and that is pretty darn good. Those are all-star type numbers.
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Ya I’ve seen people bring up his shooting percent from 3 and I agree with you he will be lights out. He has a picture perfect form and will get tones of catch and shoot 3s as Fox/Bogdan could create for him as well.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

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#487
#487
mac said:
Speaking of which, if Giles is as advertised could our team have two frontrunners for ROY?
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Possibly but so many things go into that.

On Doncic, he won the Euroleague but there is still Spanish League (and IIRC Spanish Cup) to win. Last year when Bogdan won the Euroleague with Fenerbahce, he still has Turkish league and Cup Competitions to complete.

The Spanish play offs finish some time in June and Real will be a key players there so it is highly unlikely that Doncic plays in the summer league. The same way that Bogdan didn't play in the summer league last year (albeit he also had NT commitments).
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

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#488
#488
Entity said:
Oh really? I thought they just won championship? What do they play now post post season
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Why so angry about it?

I have always read every post of yours due to our geographical similarities, at least at one time ( AL) .

It seems you just popped out of the woodworks to dump on Doncic as much as possible?

Differences of opinion are of course what leads to civil discourse, but as in the quoted example, you seem like have an axe to grind re: Doncic.

What gives?
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

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#491
#491
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Joshoua

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#492
#492
kingsfan1984

kingsfan1984

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#493
#493
If Doncic's "people" float out any rumors that he might stay in order to get some leverage in the draft to determine where he goes, why would we assume its because he doesn't want to come to sacramento???
Phx has been a toxic environment for a number of years, it wouldn't be hard to imagine any "rumors" floated out there to scare teams away could all be aimed at avoiding phx. Plus, Booker is their clear #1 and Donic might not be enthusiastic about Booker Jackson and Chriss being his running mates.
Sac would be great for him considering his relationship/familiarity with Bogdan plus you throw in the Vlade Peja influence, plus our teams extreamly positive team environment/locker room and id think he would WANT to come here.
 
Kingster

Kingster

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#495
#495
Off the cuff:

Is this going to be the year that Divac does not draft from europe, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina or Kansas?

Another thing. Is his experience with Papa going to make him look twice, thrice and frice before he drafts a guy from europe with questions concerning athleticism?
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#496
#496
Kingster said:
Off the cuff:

Is this going to be the year that Divac does not draft from europe, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina or Kansas?

Another thing. Is his experience with Papa going to make him look twice, thrice and frice before he drafts a guy from europe with questions concerning athleticism?
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There's 2 threads for Doncic which makes it all a bit confusing...

Yeah, I think Vlade is definitely going to reconsider how he evaluates prospects after drafting busts in Papagiannis and Malachi. It seems like he greatly undervalued PapaG's shortcoming in athleticism and how it would affect him in the NBA. Doncic also lacks in that area, so I think he'll explore all angles when it comes to him.
 
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burekijogurt

Starter
#498
#498
206Fan said:
There's 2 threads for Doncic which makes it all a bit confusing...

Yeah, I think Vlade is definitely going to reconsider how he evaluates prospects after drafting busts in Papagiannis and Malachi. It seems like he greatly undervalued PapaG's shortcoming in athleticism and how it would affect him in the NBA. Doncic also lacks in that area, so I think he'll explore all angles when it comes to him.
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maybe he was using personal experience as a guide when drafting PapaG. Vlade was not the most athletic player either and he had a succesful career..
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

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#499
#499
biltalent said:
Just watched Jayson Tatums highlights from last game and if you ask me, Doncic could do all this stuff as well.
Tatum has been critized for his lack of elite athleticism as well, and it is justified as he can not blow by guys and gets stuck below the rim on drives. But as you can see it just does not matter. If you are 6'7-6'8 and can handle the ball, can shoot the ball and pass the ball, with decent IQ and footwork, you will go a long way in the NBA.


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All valid points but IMHO, Tatum is a better athlete than Doncic. Also a more refined scorer. Doncic is more of a jack of all trades type of player. Tatum was always going to come into the league and have little trouble scoring. I even said around this time last year that he could possibly average 20ppg on some teams.
 
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Joshoua

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#500
#500
ParniValjak said:
All valid points but IMHO, Tatum is a better athlete than Doncic. Also a more refined scorer. Doncic is more of a jack of all trades type of player. Tatum was always going to come into the league and have little trouble scoring. I even said around this time last year that he could possibly average 20ppg on some teams.
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Tatum is a better athlete but Luka has better handle and has 25pounds on him. Also it’s more so to show that people are too concerned about Doncics athleticism
 
biltalent

biltalent

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#501
#501
ParniValjak said:
All valid points but IMHO, Tatum is a better athlete than Doncic. Also a more refined scorer. Doncic is more of a jack of all trades type of player. Tatum was always going to come into the league and have little trouble scoring. I even said around this time last year that he could possibly average 20ppg on some teams.
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I agree, Tatum is definitely the better athlete + scorer in a vacuum, but in the video I dont think he makes one move that Luka couldnt, and its still enough to put up 24 points in the eastern playoff finals.

Joshoua said:
Tatum is a better athlete but Luka has better handle and has 25pounds on him. Also it’s more so to show that people are too concerned about Doncics athleticism
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True, and lets not forget Doncic has higher IQ/quicker decision making, better vision and is a more accurate passer. I still take Doncic over Tatum and Tatum could have arguably been the #1 pick this year.
I think Doncic is going to be deadly if you run a system like Boston does. Five out and spread the floor, move the ball, quick guards that can penetrate and then let Doncic pick apart the defense with his vision after the defense is shifted and spread out. He might "only" average around 18/6/6 in his prime playing like that but your team is a playoff lock. I prefer that to dumping the ball in the post to a guy that scores 25 every night, but everyone else stands around and is disengaged while watching him go one on one.
 
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dude12

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#504
#504
There are lots of examples of high level all-star types who played the game at a slower pace or lack of elite foot speed......Paul Pierce for example.
 
bajaden

bajaden

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#505
#505
ParniValjak said:
Given that final 4 was in Belgrade and Vlade's connections there, there is more than a fair chance that Vlade would have been in one of the corporate boxes while Givony would have been somewhere in the stands. Doesn't mean that Givony is wrong just that he could not have been him there even if he was there.
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Yeah, you could be right. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me. I'm sure Vlade has been following Doncic for years and knows everything he needs to know about him. He either thinks he's a good fit, or he doesn't. I guess we'll find out when the time comes, if he's still on the board.
 
bajaden

bajaden

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#506
#506
Joshoua said:
Tatum is a better athlete but Luka has better handle and has 25pounds on him. Also it’s more so to show that people are too concerned about Doncics athleticism
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I think it's fair to point out that a lot of the things said about Tatum, are now being said about Porter, who in highschool, was considered a better prospect than Tatum. There's a tendency to overthink these things. Tatum wasn't supposed to be a good defender, but yet he did a pretty good job on Lebron.
 
bajaden

bajaden

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#507
#507
dude12 said:
There are lots of examples of high level all-star types who played the game at a slower pace or lack of elite foot speed......Paul Pierce for example.
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How about some guy named Dirk Nowitzki, or perhaps a Larry Bird. It's all about skill level. If you happen to be a great athlete as well, so much the better. But without the skills, the athleticism is almost worthless.
 
KingsSelecao

KingsSelecao

Bench
#508
#508
Comparing Tatum to Doncic is unrealistic. Doncic clearly plays against inferior competition. Tatum goes up against the best 3s in the World. It's total speculation that Doncic has the same ability or talent as Tatum. The United States Team will always crush the Euro's in any World competition.

Simple, better talent.
 
Hansel

Hansel

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#509
#509
KingsSelecao said:
Comparing Tatum to Doncic is unrealistic. Doncic clearly plays against inferior competition. Tatum goes up against the best 3s in the World. It's total speculation that Doncic has the same ability or talent as Tatum. The United States Team will always crush the Euro's in any World competition.

Simple, better talent.
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Ask LeBron or Duncan about Greece.

Seriously. Of course USA are the best team, Serbia (silver medal) has the same population of NYC by itself.
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#510
#510
KingsSelecao said:
Comparing Tatum to Doncic is unrealistic. Doncic clearly plays against inferior competition. Tatum goes up against the best 3s in the World. It's total speculation that Doncic has the same ability or talent as Tatum. The United States Team will always crush the Euro's in any World competition.

Simple, better talent.
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The comparison is to Tatum at Duke which was 1 year ago

And Doncic plays in the second best league in the world which is usually ignored
 
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