Deadline Deals
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
To give us even a remote chance at the Brooklyn pick, we're probably talking:
George Hill
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Kosta Koufos
for
Tristan Thompson
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert
2018 BKN 1st
If a deal like that were to happen, we would probably buyout Smith as I would think we don't want him anywhere near our young guys, but then you have this core of young guys:
PG - Fox / Mason
SG - Hield / Richardson
SF - Jackson
PF - Labissiere / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis
We could end up grabbing Doncic/Porter with our pick and a guy like Knox/Mil. Bridges/Mik. Bridges with the Brooklyn pick.
George Hill
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Kosta Koufos
for
Tristan Thompson
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert
2018 BKN 1st
If a deal like that were to happen, we would probably buyout Smith as I would think we don't want him anywhere near our young guys, but then you have this core of young guys:
PG - Fox / Mason
SG - Hield / Richardson
SF - Jackson
PF - Labissiere / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis
We could end up grabbing Doncic/Porter with our pick and a guy like Knox/Mil. Bridges/Mik. Bridges with the Brooklyn pick.
Not saying it would be a long shot hence why I said "remote chance." That essentially means I have very little faith it would happen just so we're all understanding each other.
Why would we want Crowder? We are rebuilding. Rebuilding teams don't trade for solid veterans who aren't good enough to carry us deep into the playoffs but good enough to prevent us from having the best odds we can to land a high pick in next year's draft.
Why would we want Crowder? We are rebuilding. Rebuilding teams don't trade for solid veterans who aren't good enough to carry us deep into the playoffs but good enough to prevent us from having the best odds we can to land a high pick in next year's draft.
Rebuilding teams also don’t trade first year rookies who show immense promise after half a season to draft another rookie and set you back a year or two. Aside from the fact that Cleveland is just plain and simple not going to give up the Brooklyn pick to get George Hill, I’m not sure what else to say.
Why are you acting like Bogdanovic is some textbook rookie? He's 25 years old and has been playing professional ball since he was a teenager. He's in (or entering) his prime. By the time our franchise cornerstones hit their primes (hoping it's going to be Fox, Giles, & our 2018 pick) Bogdanovic is going to be 30-32 years old. But please continue to label him a rookie without giving it any context at all...
I'd rather have another top 10 pick giving me a chance at another franchise player (not just a good player like Bogdan) to make this team even more formidable in the future. Even if that top 10 pick results in someone that has similar talent as Bogdanovic then at least he's hitting his prime along with the rest of the core.
I'd rather have another top 10 pick giving me a chance at another franchise player (not just a good player like Bogdan) to make this team even more formidable in the future. Even if that top 10 pick results in someone that has similar talent as Bogdanovic then at least he's hitting his prime along with the rest of the core.
twslam07 is right. You have to give something valuable to get something valuable. If we want that Brooklyn pick which is probably going to be in the 8-12 range at the end of the season than we've got to include a player that it would hurt to lose not just George Hill and filler. It's an interesting gamble. If Brooklyn nosedives you might end up with two top 5 picks. But then you're also losing a valuable player. I'd think about it but I don't think it's a gamble we need to make.
Bogdan has actually become my favorite player. If the Kings wanted the Brookyln pick, it would have to be Hill+Bogdan no doubt. Now, would I do it? I don't know. I don't care much about Hill. I wouldn't even mind if we just traded him in a salary dump and got nothing out of it. However, Bogdan? It would be difficult for me to do because I know he's locked in at the very least, a solid NBA player. The draft pick? Full of unknown and might turn into a GLeague player.
For me, it would come down to where the Nets pick. We have no clue if they'll pick 6th or 12th.
I would do the trade if it was a guaranteed top 8 pick. I like Bogdan, but the Kings are fortunate enough to have another starting caliber SG in Buddy Hield.
I don't think Vlade trades Bogdan unless he personally requests for one though.
For me, it would come down to where the Nets pick. We have no clue if they'll pick 6th or 12th.
I would do the trade if it was a guaranteed top 8 pick. I like Bogdan, but the Kings are fortunate enough to have another starting caliber SG in Buddy Hield.
I don't think Vlade trades Bogdan unless he personally requests for one though.
I wouldn't trade Bogdan. He's going to be even better than he is right now once he gets more acclimated to the NBA. I have him down as a high teens scorer and that's how he's been playing the last couple weeks or so. What are the odds that the player picked around 10th is going to give us that kind of production? With the Kings history of draft picks....I'm keeping him because there's no telling what kind of production we're going to get with the Brooklyn pick.
Can't speak for him, but right now, I'm not including Bogdanovic in any freaking deal. Vlade stole him from the Suns, and he's proving to be the real deal, and now you want to throw him in on a trade for unproven players? Insanity! And five years from now, when he's an all star, everyone that wanted this trade, will be criticizing Vlade for how stupid he was getting rid of Bog's. Of all the rookies, hell, of all the young players on the team, Bog's has probably been the best. Why in the hell would you want to trade him? I just don't get it.
I’m aware that you subscribe to the group think that we need to maintain our good players. Good players only get you so far. Give me another top 10 pick and give me another shot at finding our franchise player.
Insanity is falling victim to the overvaluing of ones own players. Bogdanovic is a really good player and if we had franchise players already on the roster, I want him on my team, but until then our priority is finding the 1-2 guys that’s going to be alpha dogs that can lead this deep into the playoffs and ultimately a championship.
A lot of fans (maybe even you) are okay with JUST being a playoff team and never being a real threat. I am not and I understand that that difference in preference results in me disagreeing with many here.
Insanity is falling victim to the overvaluing of ones own players. Bogdanovic is a really good player and if we had franchise players already on the roster, I want him on my team, but until then our priority is finding the 1-2 guys that’s going to be alpha dogs that can lead this deep into the playoffs and ultimately a championship.
A lot of fans (maybe even you) are okay with JUST being a playoff team and never being a real threat. I am not and I understand that that difference in preference results in me disagreeing with many here.
Don't necessarily disagree with overvaluing players but I completely disagree with the premise of dealing Bogi for an unknown. And also can't quite agree with your timeline in regards to his age and what you believe to be his prime and that when he's 30, you believe he's to old for the remainder of the team.
What I do believe in this case is that we had better hold on to known assets such as Bogi unless he's part of a deal bringing back a known upgrade....such as the TWolves finally cashing in on younger assets for known upgrades such as Jimmy Butler. That is the only time I will trade a guy like Bogi or Fox etc. the team is ready to take the next step and its time to get veteran all-star type presence on the roster.
I think in our case, based on current evaluations, our best case scenario would be similar to the Atlanta teams where they had several borderline or sometime all-stars in Horford and Millsap and worked as a team to accomplish great years. One can debate whether Milsap or Horford were considered franchise pieces....franchise player would have to be defined.
Celtics also come to mind......they have been building and having good success.......before this year, would any player be considered a franchise talent?
Point being, I believe the best avenue is to accumulate several young talents like Bogi, Fox, etc and acquire a franchise player through trade as opposed to dealing a known young assets in hopes of a better known asset......way to risky for this franchise.
What I do believe in this case is that we had better hold on to known assets such as Bogi unless he's part of a deal bringing back a known upgrade....such as the TWolves finally cashing in on younger assets for known upgrades such as Jimmy Butler. That is the only time I will trade a guy like Bogi or Fox etc. the team is ready to take the next step and its time to get veteran all-star type presence on the roster.
I think in our case, based on current evaluations, our best case scenario would be similar to the Atlanta teams where they had several borderline or sometime all-stars in Horford and Millsap and worked as a team to accomplish great years. One can debate whether Milsap or Horford were considered franchise pieces....franchise player would have to be defined.
Celtics also come to mind......they have been building and having good success.......before this year, would any player be considered a franchise talent?
Point being, I believe the best avenue is to accumulate several young talents like Bogi, Fox, etc and acquire a franchise player through trade as opposed to dealing a known young assets in hopes of a better known asset......way to risky for this franchise.
So it appears we do not want to give up Bogie for BKN Pick
What about Willie?
Hill, WCS
for
Shumpert, TT, bkn pic
Cavs get their PG, and Rim protector
Both are upgades on Offense and defense
Cavs sheds future salary
Cavs get a young 1st rd player
Kings get the Pick
Costs them future salary
Fans here are worried about his consistancy, cost to keep him after next year
OR
Hill,Kosta
for
JR,Shumpert
But only way to get the pick I think is WCS,Buddy or Bogie
How bad does Vlade want the pick?
What about Willie?
Hill, WCS
for
Shumpert, TT, bkn pic
Cavs get their PG, and Rim protector
Both are upgades on Offense and defense
Cavs sheds future salary
Cavs get a young 1st rd player
Kings get the Pick
Costs them future salary
Fans here are worried about his consistancy, cost to keep him after next year
OR
Hill,Kosta
for
JR,Shumpert
But only way to get the pick I think is WCS,Buddy or Bogie
How bad does Vlade want the pick?
A Cavs deal with: Shump, Frye and their 1st for Hill does offer some interesting 3 team possibilities for teams looking to clear cap space:
For example:
Kings out: Hill, Carter
Kings in: Shump, Evan Turner, Cavs 1st, Portland first
Cavs in: Hill
Cavs out: Shump, Frye, Cle 1st
Portland out: Evan Turner
Portland in: Frye, Carter
Or
With Miami:
Miami out: Winslow, Johnson
Miami in: Frye, Carter
Kings in: Shump, Winslow, Johnson, Cavs 1st.
Or
Replace Miami with Detroit and Leuer and Johnson.
For example:
Kings out: Hill, Carter
Kings in: Shump, Evan Turner, Cavs 1st, Portland first
Cavs in: Hill
Cavs out: Shump, Frye, Cle 1st
Portland out: Evan Turner
Portland in: Frye, Carter
Or
With Miami:
Miami out: Winslow, Johnson
Miami in: Frye, Carter
Kings in: Shump, Winslow, Johnson, Cavs 1st.
Or
Replace Miami with Detroit and Leuer and Johnson.
The Brooklyn pick might not be out of question if they remain competitive and win games between now and the end of the season. They could easily play the Cavs out of a top five, perhaps even top ten draft pick because the Nets have no reason to lose. They've got young talent and want to start building the foundation of a winning culture. Currently they sit 22nd with Utah, Charlotte, NY, Philly and Detroit ahead of them. I doubt they overtake them all but who knows how the lottery balls fall. I appreciate the balls could fall in the Cavs favor, but I think that pick could be available for the right combination of players.
The question is, outside of Hill, do we have anyone else they would want in order to give up that pick?
The question is, outside of Hill, do we have anyone else they would want in order to give up that pick?
Let me ask you this. How do you know that Bog's isn't a franchise player. We've had him for half a season, and your ready to judge the outcome of his career. You, nor I have no idea how good he can be, nor do we know that anyone we draft in the coming draft is going to be our franchise player. What I do know, is that Bog's is a dammed good player right now, and is going to get better. If I'm trading a SG, its Buddy, because right now, Bog's is a far superior player to Buddy, and it's not even close. You want to trade someone, then trade him. Or trade Malachi, who seems to be the odd man out. But when you've found a keeper, you keep him. It's not a matter of overvaluing, it's a matter of not overvaluing what your getting in return.
What I know is that Fox, Bogdanovic, and Willie seem to have good chemistry together, and all three have upside potential. So unless someone makes an offer that knocks my socks off, I'm not trading any of those three. I'm also not trading Giles until I find out what I have. The Suns did that with Bog's and trust me, they regret that now. Skal, I'm borderline on, and I would trade him in the right deal. Ditto Buddy, Jackson, Mason, Papa and Malachi. Not saying I'm anxious to trade any of them, but none of them are untouchable. Willie, Bog's, and Fox can all create their own shot off the dribble and all three can attack the close out. Buddy is iffy in that scenario, and often gets himself in trouble trying. Not saying that Buddy can't improve, but when you consider his time in college, you have to believe he's close to his ceiling in some areas. Hope I'm wrong about him. But I don't think I'am.
What I know is that Fox, Bogdanovic, and Willie seem to have good chemistry together, and all three have upside potential. So unless someone makes an offer that knocks my socks off, I'm not trading any of those three. I'm also not trading Giles until I find out what I have. The Suns did that with Bog's and trust me, they regret that now. Skal, I'm borderline on, and I would trade him in the right deal. Ditto Buddy, Jackson, Mason, Papa and Malachi. Not saying I'm anxious to trade any of them, but none of them are untouchable. Willie, Bog's, and Fox can all create their own shot off the dribble and all three can attack the close out. Buddy is iffy in that scenario, and often gets himself in trouble trying. Not saying that Buddy can't improve, but when you consider his time in college, you have to believe he's close to his ceiling in some areas. Hope I'm wrong about him. But I don't think I'am.
Don't get me wrong, Bogdan is my favorite King too, but at the same time, you need to give something to get something.
You don't see many 25 year olds make a jump in performance. Can they get better? Of course, but how much really? I don't see our stars or franchise players yet. I don't see a Booker or a Towns or an Embiid or a Mitchell or a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Jokic on this team. It doesn't mean Fox can't emerge as that type of player (or a guy like Giles or Labissiere surprises us), but at this point, we don't know who those players are going to be for us. So until we know that, we should be making moves to collect players that have that type of potential.
You're not going anywhere without stars in this league. We must make sure we have ours in place before we start making moves that remove us from the top of the draft.
You don't see many 25 year olds make a jump in performance. Can they get better? Of course, but how much really? I don't see our stars or franchise players yet. I don't see a Booker or a Towns or an Embiid or a Mitchell or a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Jokic on this team. It doesn't mean Fox can't emerge as that type of player (or a guy like Giles or Labissiere surprises us), but at this point, we don't know who those players are going to be for us. So until we know that, we should be making moves to collect players that have that type of potential.
You're not going anywhere without stars in this league. We must make sure we have ours in place before we start making moves that remove us from the top of the draft.