Free Agency Open Thread (NBA and Kings!)

[funkykingston]

I know folks here are attached to Koufos but he has a player option for 2018-19, and, as good as a sport as he's been so far, I'd have to believe he declines that option and walks next summer. Now, if you can trade him for something like a late first, AND replace him with someone like Aldrich, while netting another late 1st, why not? Are his contributions/mentoring to Papa worth two first rounders?

I am a Koufos fan but yeah, I'd be fine with moving him depending on the return. He's a very solid player on a cap friendly deal and the Kings are still rebuilding.

If they chose to trade him and use their caproom to absorb contracts and came away with 3-4 1st rounders over the next two years I'd be fine with it. It means more minutes for the young bigs and more assets going forward that can either be used to draft more young guys or included in trades to reshape the team.

The West is going to be nasty for a few years. It's not a bad time to develop young talent and rebuild smartly.

 

[King Baller]

I know folks here are attached to Koufos but he has a player option for 2018-19, and, as good as a sport as he's been so far, I'd have to believe he declines that option and walks next summer. Now, if you can trade him for something like a late first, AND replace him with someone like Aldrich, while netting another late 1st, why not? Are his contributions/mentoring to Papa worth two first rounders?

Koufos might prefer to stay with the Kings. Vets like him are hard to come by. I want more than a late first for Kosta.

 

[allrightythen]

Koufos might prefer to stay with the Kings. Vets like him are hard to come by. I want more than a late first for Kosta.

I really like Koufos and I don't particularly want to trade him but I can see it happening in the right deal. I could see Boston having some real interest if they get Hayward, Houston might be interested as well. If we miss on other SFs in free agency and Boston gets Hayward they might be willing to deal 1 or 2 of Crowder/Brown/Tatum. It might take more than Koufos for Brown or Tatum though.

 

[Blob]

I'm much more interested in Shabazz than Bojan at that price.

Shabazz has tunnel vision. Takes low percentage shots. Does nothing besides score. If the Kings miss out on Otto, I think we should target Andre Roberson. The Thunder are capped out and maybe we can work a S&T with Rudy.

 

[theclash4u5]

Roberson is more of a SG than a SF, although he did play SF last season for OKC. The problem is, they put him there because he is TERRIBLE at 3P%.

24%

 

[Blob]

I really like Koufos and I don't particularly want to trade him but I can see it happening in the right deal. I could see Boston having some real interest if they get Hayward, Houston might be interested as well. If we miss on other SFs in free agency and Boston gets Hayward they might be willing to deal 1 or 2 of Crowder/Brown/Tatum. It might take more than Koufos for Brown or Tatum though.

The possibilities that open up for the Kings if Hayward signs with the Celtics are Marcus Smart and Crowder. The Celtics are about 3M short of being able to fit Hayward into max contact slot, so if agrees to go there, they would have to make room by getting rid of one of these guys. I think Smart is the guy they would look to unload before Crowder. Crowder is locked up with a beautiful team-friendly contract while Smart is a RFA next season. The Celtics cannot afford him. I would not mind adding Smart for nothing. He's a bricklayer but bulldog. Joerger can actually put him on SFs most nights and he will hold his own.

 

[Blob]

Roberson is more of a SG than a SF, although he did play SF last season for OKC. The problem is, they put him there because he is TERRIBLE at 3P%.

24%

I know he's a bonafide bricklayer. Allegedly this is a skill he improved towards end of the season. Roberson made 41% of his 3s in playoffs vs Rockets (7-17). But the guy is second team All-NBA. He is a young Tony Allen for Joerger. The price would have to be right. I think the concern would be Roberson could be too much of a duplicate of Temple. I am not so sure I would not rather have Marcus Smart depending on cost.

Certainly the Kings need to be formulating back-up plans if Otto falls through and these are the names that are going to come up.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I can see situations where giving up KK might be necessary, but I really think I would try to hold on to him this season. There is a balance between the need for change when things are not working and the stability and consistency needed for a young team to develop trust and fluidity. It would be a mistake to underestimate the value of KK's presence in terms of influencing younger players especially Poppa G. Systems theory does an excellent job of explaining why you simply cannot remove one vet and insert another with similar attributes and expect the same results. That said I do like Cole and and I think that these are the kind of opportunities Vlade should be looking for but in this case if the cost is Kosta I'd pass.

 

[Ozymandias]

Shabazz has tunnel vision. Takes low percentage shots. Does nothing besides score. If the Kings miss out on Otto, I think we should target Andre Roberson. The Thunder are capped out and maybe we can work a S&T with Rudy.

He shot 48% from the field (McLemore shot 41%), If he takes low % shots he certainly makes them at a good clip. Shabazz has an arsenal of pro scorers moves especially when he's on the baseline. His career AST:TO ratio is identical to Andre Robersons. Shabazz can create off the dribble and get to the FT line when needed.

Roberson shot 42% from the FT line last season, they were hack-a-shaqing him in the playoffs..... Garrett Temple is much better.. Roberson won't revolutionize the defense here, the Kings need to bring in firepower.

 

[Blob]

He shot 48% from the field (McLemore shot 41%), If he takes low % shots he certainly makes them at a good clip. Shabazz has an arsenal of pro scorers moves especially when he's on the baseline. His career AST:TO ratio is identical to Andre Robersons.

Roberson shot 42% from the FT line last season... Garrett Temple is better..

I can see Shabazz going to Lakers. I would hate to see us sign him. His game is trash IMHO. He's a selfish player. We are trying to build a team that plays together. Shabazz is about getting his own and resting on defense.

 

[Ozymandias]

I can see Shabazz going to Lakers. I would hate to see us sign him. His game is trash IMHO. He's a selfish player. We are trying to build a team that plays together. Shabazz is about getting his own and resting on defense.

He's a scorer.. With fast PG's like Fox and Mason if you get him the ball a step ahead of the defense it will be a high % bucket. Once he's got a step he's got an arsenal of turnarounds crossovers and fade-aways that lead to FGM's at a good clip, he also can get to the FT line pretty well..

The Timberwolves defense as a whole was awful last year all of their players individual defensive statistics suffered as a consequence. The T'Wolves actually had a better defensive rating with him on the court than off it...

If not Bazz, my vote is for C.J. Miles. For the record I was all for giving Joe Ingles big $$$, who fits most of the qualifications you've outlined quite easily.

 

[Ozymandias]

Every player has a few good games.

McLemore shot 41.6% from the floor for the season though, Bazz's body of work is of a much more reliable scorer he's got more upside at this point too IMO... Muhammad is certainly worth more on the open market, the Timberwolves told him they wanted him back during exit interviews with a QO at $7.6MM but due to the recent big $$$ additions he's become expendable. He'll command a better contract than Ben for sure.

I always suspected that Shabazz was in-fact better than Ben back before that 2013 draft, people have been bending over backwards to take shots at Bazz since he was rated the #1 player in his HS class.

 

[Blob]

....people have been bending over backwards to take shots at Bazz since he was rated the #1 player in his HS class.

You think fans go out of their way to take shots at a player based on HS ranking? I don't think so. It's baseless comment and discredits fans as petty and stupid. That's unfair. With false narrative then you can project yourself as someone coming to the defense of someone wrongly attacked. I don't like his game. He's selfish. He's a black hole. It has nothing to do with his high school ranking. I didn't even know he was #1.

We'll see how much Shabazz gets. I don't see teams chomping at the bit to add him. I heard Warriors were interested in Swaggy P. If Shabazz is so good, wouldn't they rather have him? The Pistons gave 3 / 21 to Langston Galloway. That's a ridiculous overpay. Wouldn't that money be better spent on Shabazz if he is so dynamic? I can see Shabazz going to the Lakers or Nets, two teams desperate for talent and one year flyers.

 

[Merdiesel]

I'd take 40 year old Vince Carter over Shabazz any day of the week.

 

[ESP47]

Shabazz is an awful defender. One of the worst defenders in the league. Advanced stats say he's one of the worst overall players in the league at the moment. Even worse than the current version of Afflalo and a couple spots worse than McLemore. All Muhammad brings to the table is 2 point efficiency. That's all he has going for him. Read what TWolves fans have to say about him and it's not pretty. He doesn't make the extra pass. Will pass up on a wide open player to take his own contested 3. When he does pass, it's usually at the end of the shot clock while putting his teammate into a bad situation that causes a force or a turnover. He's an inconsistent 3 point shooter. Doesn't really have anything other than athleticism going for him. IQ wise, he's even worse than Ben. Every player that is currently on this team will have a more positive impact than Shabazz.

I watched that game against Golden State on TNT where he went off and was impressed. Started following him a bit and was disappointed big time. He's garbage.

 

[SacTownKid]

He shot 48% from the field (McLemore shot 41%), If he takes low % shots he certainly makes them at a good clip. Shabazz has an arsenal of pro scorers moves especially when he's on the baseline. His career AST:TO ratio is identical to Andre Robersons. Shabazz can create off the dribble and get to the FT line when needed.

Roberson shot 42% from the FT line last season, they were hack-a-shaqing him in the playoffs..... Garrett Temple is much better.. Roberson won't revolutionize the defense here, the Kings need to bring in firepower.

Garrett Temple is a better defender? Not a chance. Roberson is the kind of player you can borderline consider a stopper. He's Doug Christie level on that end. He's also strong enough to guard a variety of players big and small.

 

[Ozymandias]

You think fans go out of their way to take shots at a player based on HS ranking? I don't think so. It's baseless comment and discredits fans as petty and stupid. That's unfair. With false narrative then you can project yourself as someone coming to the defense of someone wrongly attacked. I don't like his game. He's selfish. He's a black hole. It has nothing to do with his high school ranking. I didn't even know he was #1.

We'll see how much Shabazz gets. I don't see teams chomping at the bit to add him. I heard Warriors were interested in Swaggy P. If Shabazz is so good, wouldn't they rather have him? The Pistons gave 3 / 21 to Langston Galloway. That's a ridiculous overpay. Wouldn't that money be better spent on Shabazz if he is so dynamic? I can see Shabazz going to the Lakers or Nets, two teams desperate for talent and one year flyers.

Sheesh dude here's some advice; You need to toughen up. This is some internet forum, being so thin-skinned here is unbecoming.

I follow HS basketball, probably closer than anyone on this forum, and to answer your question; of course they do. there's literally examples of it every year. In this years draft class look no further than Josh Jackson, or better yet Harry Giles and Justin Jackson -- Go look at what people had to say about Justin Jackson after he shot 20-something % from 3 as a freshman, or how Giles has been deemed damaged goods those stories would not have the attention they did if they were if they were just some random 4-star kids ranked somewhere from 40-100... that attention was in-part due to 5-star and top-10 status, if you choose not to believe that, so be it. Thats how this crap works though, I've been following this stuff pretty closely for about 12 years and thats my take, it repeats itself yearly it's failsafe..

Shabazz was always attacked in HS for his advanced age and being ranked #1, even when he was the MVP of the McDonald's All-American game. Shabazz's pops fanned the flames of this, what I guess could be called age-ism, obviously you're unaware of the whole backstory. I'll fill you in. His father was telling everyone he was a year younger than he actually is for a very long time, and got caught red-handed. There's plenty of articles from 2013 about it. Shabazz decided to remove him from his basketball endeavors entirely before he even got to college because his meddling became counter-productive. So yes, he was wrongly attacked and it was onset, in part, by his father, when he was just a teenager.

There's a bias about age constantly, as seen with Malachai Richardson, who remained underrated mostly because he was the age of many sophomores as a freshman.

 

[Iced Espresso]

We should be patient and wait with Porter before we do anything if you ask me.

No 40 year old is worth messing with our cap until we know what cards we are holding first. The more roster space + cap space we have is better for possible trades until we get some clarity too. Don't complicate the roster for some old man until we know what's up.

 

[ESP47]

Garrett Temple is a better defender? Not a chance. Roberson is the kind of player you can borderline consider a stopper. He's Doug Christie level on that end. He's also strong enough to guard a variety of players big and small.

I think he just meant a better overall player. Roberson is an elite defender but his offensive game is essentially that of an outdated center who just cleans up garbage and gets put backs. Plus how much of an impact did Westbrook have on his game? He probably got him a ton of open looks. Temple is a good defender, decent ball handler, good shooter and free throw shooter. So while Temple isn't as good at that one thing, he makes up for it by being decent at everything else.

My main fear with Roberson is lets say it takes Fox and Skal a couple years to get their 3 point shots down. The spacing is going to be terrible and neither guy is going to have any room to go to work. His ace defense might not be worth the negative impact that the young guys will feel on the offensive end where they will have to deal with his man leaving him to double constantly.

 

[Ozymandias]

Garrett Temple is a better defender? Not a chance. Roberson is the kind of player you can borderline consider a stopper. He's Doug Christie level on that end. He's also strong enough to guard a variety of players big and small.

He's a complete liability on offense. He's in no way complimentary with De'Aaron Fox, he compresses the floor instead of spaces it.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Shabazz decided to remove him from his basketball endeavors entirely before he even got to college because his meddling became counter-productive.

So maybe he should go to the Lakers and mentor their shiny new draft pick in this fine art

 

[SacTownKid]

He's a complete liability on offense. He's in no way complimentary with De'Aaron Fox, he compresses the floor instead of spaces it.

The free throw shooting is horrid and would be a problem, but he can spot shoot when he gets a rhythm. I completely understand what you're saying and he's not a perfect fit but he didn't seem to compress the floor very much for Westbrook. For his ability defensively I think he'd be worth a sizable contract.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think he just meant a better overall player. Roberson is an elite defender but his offensive game is essentially that of an outdated center who just cleans up garbage and gets put backs. Plus how much of an impact did Westbrook have on his game? He probably got him a ton of open looks. Temple is a good defender, decent ball handler, good shooter and free throw shooter. So while Temple isn't as good at that one thing, he makes up for it by being decent at everything else.

My main fear with Roberson is lets say it takes Fox and Skal a couple years to get their 3 point shots down. The spacing is going to be terrible and neither guy is going to have any room to go to work. His ace defense might not be worth the negative impact that the young guys will feel on the offensive end where they will have to deal with his man leaving him to double constantly.

There's a chance of the spacing being effected but there is also hope with the shooting he showed in the playoffs. He showed he can knock down shots when the lights are brightest even if in a limited number of attempts overall.

 

[Ozymandias]

So maybe he should go to the Lakers and mentor their shiny new draft pick in this fine art

I actually really enjoy reading about the parenting. There's some extreme stuff you see. Even though at this point I hate to say it, but there's many redeeming qualities to what LaVarr has done -- That comment is about what he did years ago before he started running his mouth to the media, it predates his fame and his public racist comments, there's really nothing redeeming about any of this new stuff other than I guess some entrepreneurship/marketing techniques..

There's no doubt in my mind what he's doing is an act.

Of all the parent stories I've read about I'm sure that Karl Anthony Towns parents are the best examples I can think of.

Shabazz's father was on the opposite end of the spectrum though, he became toxic/detrimental for sure. Which is plenty unfair to do to some teenager especially one thats garnered such attention..

I'm a believer in second and third chances, I don't think it's wise to rush to judgement because a teenager or a 20 year old does something like what Muhammad was taken to task over at UCLA in the media.

To me one of the great gifts of being human is the capacity to change, so perhaps thats overly optimistic. I also just don't think the timberwolves were an ideal landing spot for Shabazz and don't want to put too much stock into all of the stats he put up there in limited minutes, I'm more concerned with underlying value. Shabazz has the capability to get tough buckets in tough moments when they're needed, to me that seems like something the Kings could use, and that is worth gambling on (if the price is right), he's got upside too, he's only a year older than Buddy Hield..

Look no further than the other swingman I'm kinda hoping lands in Sactown for not too much $$$, CJ Miles. He was extremely inefficient in his first few years with Utah (straight out of HS) and has now worked himself into a reliable knockdown shooter.

While we're on the subject too I think it's absurd to hold Kentavious Caldwell-Pope's feet to the fire over some DUI. That kid can ball, I'd give him a second chance no questions asked. It's not like he did something with malicious intent.

 

[Blob]

Sheesh dude here's some advice; You need to toughen up. This is some internet forum, being so thin-skinned here is unbecoming.

I follow HS basketball, probably closer than anyone on this forum, and to answer your question; of course they do. there's literally examples of it every year. In this years draft class look no further than Josh Jackson, or better yet Harry Giles and Justin Jackson -- Go look at what people had to say about Justin Jackson after he shot 20-something % from 3 as a freshman, or how Giles has been deemed damaged goods those stories would not have the attention they did if they were if they were just some random 4-star kids ranked somewhere from 40-100... that attention was in-part due to 5-star and top-10 status, if you choose not to believe that, so be it. Thats how this poopoo works though, I've been following this stuff pretty closely for about 12 years and thats my take, it repeats itself yearly it's failsafe..

Shabazz was always attacked in HS for his advanced age and being ranked #1, even when he was the MVP of the McDonald's All-American game. Shabazz's pops fanned the flames of this, what I guess could be called age-ism, obviously you're unaware of the whole backstory. I'll fill you in. His father was telling everyone he was a year younger than he actually is for a very long time, and got caught red-handed. There's plenty of articles from 2013 about it. Shabazz decided to remove him from his basketball endeavors entirely before he even got to college because his meddling became counter-productive. So yes, he was wrongly attacked and it was onset, in part, by his father, when he was just a teenager.

There's a bias about age constantly, as seen with Malachai Richardson, who remained underrated mostly because he was the age of many sophomores as a freshman.

I am not being thin-skinned. I am challenging the merits of your opinion. Maybe Shabazz drew criticism for lying about his age as much as being a #1 recruit??? I vaguely recall his team not living up to his potential. Criticisms is not inherently leveled at a player because he's a #1 recruit. If other variables are favorable, fans are falling all over themselves in anticipation of said prospect landing on their favorite team. There's character and performance issues that factor into a negative perception and this was the case with Shabazz. When you say the guy has been taking shots for being #1 in HS class that's ridiculous. There's more to it than that. You just said so yourself.

You are mischaracterizing what happened. You are saying fans are guilty of ageism? That's wrong. The backlash was due to concealment to boost his draft stock. When you say fans are "bias" against Malachi, and his age, that's wrong too. It's not inherently bias to think an older prospect (20 or 21) is more of a finished product (18 or 19) and has less upside. That's an opinion with logic and evidence to support it. It is just a matter of perspective. I happen to like that Mason and Justin Jackson are older rookies. They are more ready to contribute from Day One, more mature than a one-and-done player. But if someone else disagreed, I would not say " You are bias!" "You are guilty of ageism!" That's ridiculous and that is where you seem to be coming from in regards to Shabazz, trying to generalize and defend with this flimsy self-generated narrative.

 

[Ozymandias]

The free throw shooting is horrid and would be a problem, but he can spot shoot when he gets a rhythm. I completely understand what you're saying and he's not a perfect fit but he didn't seem to compress the floor very much for Westbrook. For his ability defensively I think he'd be worth a sizable contract.

The real hangup I have with this is I'd have rather payed Joe Ingles some absurd amount of $$$($22MM/per yr) rather than Roberson half that.

It's the same hangup I have with Bojan talking about $16MM a year when he's a traffic cone on defense.

Give me CJ Miles!!

Danilo Gallinari had an ORTG of 126 and is just 28.. throw him big $$$ before some of these lower echelon players half of that, whats the point of having all the cap space if you're gonna go after consolation prizes?? Gallinari would most likely be the #1 option on offense here..

 

[pdxKingsFan]

While we're on the subject too I think it's absurd to hold Kentavious Caldwell-Pope's feet to the fire over some DUI. That kid can ball, I'd give him a second chance no questions asked. It's not like he did something with malicious intent.

I understand why people do but a lot of people probably should have them and don't. I think second chances are warranted when appropriate.

As for LaVarr, he probably isn't the worst sports parent ever, but I just don't think I want him around my team. It's amusing when it's UCLA or the Lakers, not teams I root for. It works better when the child is in an individual sport, like the Williams sisters, or even Earl Woods who was maybe nowhere near as obnoxious but who still pushed Tiger perhaps in his own interest.

 

[Ozymandias]

I am not being thin-skinned. I am challenging the merits of your opinion. Maybe Shabazz drew criticism for lying about his age as much as being a #1 recruit??? I vaguely recall his team not living up to his potential. Criticisms is not inherently leveled at a player because he's a #1 recruit. If other variables are favorable, fans are falling all over themselves in anticipation of said prospect landing on their favorite team. There's character and performance issues that factor into a negative perception and this was the case with Shabazz. When you say the guy has been taking shots for being #1 in HS class that's ridiculous. There's more to it than that. You just said so yourself.

You are mischaracterizing what happened. You are saying fans are guilty of ageism? That's wrong. The backlash was due to concealment to boost his draft stock. When you say fans are "bias" against Malachi, and his age, that's wrong too. It's not inherently bias to think an older prospect (20 or 21) is more of a finished product (18 or 19) and has less upside. That's an opinion with logic and evidence to support it. It is just a matter of perspective. I happen to like that Mason and Justin Jackson are older rookies. They are more ready to contribute from Day One, more mature than a one-and-done player. But if someone else disagreed, I would not say " You are bias!" "You are guilty of ageism!" That's ridiculous and that is where you seem to be coming from in regards to Shabazz, trying to generalize and defend with this flimsy self-generated narrative.

Your "response" is not worth worth my time to fully refute. Your contrived use of semantics and attempting to frame the conversation by putting words in my mouth reveal your true weakness, and frankly sociopathic tendencies.

You certainly didn't pay me the gratitude of a proper response. Just look at this example;

"His father was telling everyone he was a year younger than he actually is for a very long time, and got caught red-handed. "

is what I said, and this is what's in your response.

"Maybe Shabazz drew criticism for lying about his age as much as being a #1 recruit???"

So quite clearly, you have an agenda, or lack reading comprehension or just enjoy being ignorant and twisting a narrative(precisely the aspersion you try to cast on others).

Lets be real too, there's a pattern of you posting in this manner. I've been here for a month and have seen it several times. I'm here to talk about basketball, obviously you prefer to talk about semantics. to be honest too your semantics are weak and riddled with holes. If you knew better you'd do better....

So I ask; Who's being presumptuous here? Who's speaking on a story they've followed for many years running? who's lacing their comments with qualifiers such as "I vaguely recall"? who's casting absurd blanket statements about HS recruiting rankings(and then not defending them)? who's here speaking for 'fans' as a whole (LOL)?

The truth is I could thrash your semantics to pieces but I'm gonna let you think you won because you obviously seek that kind of self-satisfaction. Welcome to the ignore list. This is the last response you'll ever get from me. I hope you get over whatever has made you so bitter. Good luck, conversing with people the way that you do, you're obviously gonna need it.

 

[ESP47]

There's a chance of the spacing being effected but there is also hope with the shooting he showed in the playoffs. He showed he can knock down shots when the lights are brightest even if in a limited number of attempts overall.

You'd roll the dice on that? I don't think there's a chance on the spacing being affected, I think there's an almost 100% guarantee it would be affected. I'm guessing he probably has a few hundred 3 pointers attempted at an abysmal success rate across his career and he probably shot about 20 of them in the playoffs and made them at a good rate. That's as small a sample size as you can get. I probably shoot them at 10% in pickup games but even I have had rolls where I've made a handful in a row for no apparent reason other than luck or just feeling good for a moment.

His drop from 60 something percent FT shooting to 40 percent tells me that his shot is getting worse and he's not really sure how to fix it. If we had shooting at the other 4 positions and a hole at SF, I'd pick him up. He's definitely a smart player that plays within himself and doesn't try to force anything. Most of his 3's are of the wide open, you better shoot it, kind of variety and he still can't nail them. These are like shoot around, wide open types of 3's that guys probably make at a 50% rate before the game and Roberson can't hit them at even a Derrick Williams type clip during a game.

 

[Blob]

Your "response" is not worth worth my time to fully refute. Your contrived use of semantics and attempting to frame the conversation by putting words in my mouth reveal your true weakness, and frankly sociopathic tendencies.

You certainly didn't pay me the gratitude of a proper response. Just look at this example;

"His father was telling everyone he was a year younger than he actually is for a very long time, and got caught red-handed. "

is what I said, and this is what's in your response.

"Maybe Shabazz drew criticism for lying about his age as much as being a #1 recruit???"

So quite clearly, you have an agenda, or lack reading comprehension or just enjoy being ignorant and twisting a narrative(precisely the aspersion you try to cast on others).

Lets be real too, there's a pattern of you posting in this manner. I've been here for a month and have seen it several times. I'm here to talk about basketball, obviously you prefer to talk about semantics. to be honest too your semantics are weak and riddled with holes. If you knew better you'd do better....

So I ask; Who's being presumptuous here? Who's speaking on a story they've followed for many years running? who's lacing their comments with qualifiers such as "I vaguely recall"? who's casting absurd blanket statements about HS recruiting rankings(and then not defending them)? who's here speaking for 'fans' as a whole (LOL)?

The truth is I could thrash your semantics to pieces but I'm gonna let you think you won because you obviously seek that kind of self-satisfaction. Welcome to the ignore list. This is the last response you'll ever get from me. I hope you get over whatever has made you so bitter. Good luck, conversing with people the way that you do, you're obviously gonna need it.

You're upset because you are out of substance. When you say "people have been bending over backwards to take shots at Bazz since he was rated the #1 player in his HS class" a comment like this hops off the page. It is dubious in generalization and tone. You are effectively saying this guy has been victimized unfairly by fans who don't know any better. So you got challenged on it. That's what happens in forums like this. Your argument helped make my case for me. Whether his Dad or Shabazz lied about his age directly or not there was a level of culpability by association or omission. This played role in the perception of him along with his underwhelming play in college relative to expectations. So this talk about bias and ageism is inaccurate. It is a flawed conclusion. You dug yourself a deeper hole trying to defend your opinion, ran out of ideas, so you resort to personal attack. This is more reflection on you than me. Have a great day. I know I will.