Free Agency Open Thread (NBA and Kings!)

[Telemachus]

Huh?? Fans are as good observers as anyone - maybe they can be bad judges, but if its a reasoned thought and well constructed, why not reference, and it matched my memory of his play - granted that was 2 or 3 games - but they were Playoff games. Conversely, I didnt read any fans claiming Porter had a great playoff series. There were quite a few "let him walk" sentiments, and several "man-up and pay him"....its all about sample size. If Porter is a worthy Max player, I'd expect to see little or no "let him walk" statements. The only thing that helps assuage my jitter is the fact the Kings drafted Fox - this is a chemistry experiment on Porter gelling with 3 point shooting with Fox.

I think most fans have a tendency to either over value or undervalue their own players.
Porter is one of those players who didn't live up to expectations right away, and that is something some fans never get over. He has turned into an above average, consistent, 2-way player who isn't flashy. These are the type of players who look easy to replace until you have to actually replace them.

 

[Livinthedream]

Fans are quite possibly the WORST reference when you're trying to judge a player with whom you are not familiar.

Or too familiar with.

 

[kingsfan101]

I have not seen Porter much, so not sure if he's worth the kind of money we are offering him. Seeing the comments, I know some of you guys are really high on him, so that's good. That said, seeing the amount some other guys are getting, our offer doesn't look outrageous for a young guy, who plays the position we most need.

My concern is giving out huge contract to someone who might not be one of your top two guys. Most teams these days need three all star level guys who take up most of the cap. Rest of the roster is filled out with vets chasing rings, kids, some unearthed gem if you are lucky, and so on. Such teams either pay huge tax, or are stuck in mediocrity for a long time. To have a real shot, the third guy has to come up huge too. Being good is sometimes not good enough.

We are sitting pretty right now, and have a chance to see if this kid is really good. So, this is a risk we can certainly take. Do hope though that he plays like one of the top 2 guys on a winning team.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm much more interested in Shabazz than Bojan at that price.

Both are defensive sieves. I'd sooner take Demarre Carroll and compensation from Toronto, but I hope we have better options

 

[ParniValjak]

Is Mirotic a FA, right? Hope Wizards match the offer for Porter, then we have enough money to sign Bogdanovic, Teodosic and Mirotic. Draft Doncic the next year, trade anyone else for Jokic and at the end we reunite Yugoslavia.

Mirotic is a RFA and I just can't see Milos coming to Sacramento. Kings are not what he is looking for despite relationship with Vlade and Bogdan.

 

[Gary]

Seen Porter quite a bit.. Not as much as Wiz fans, but I think the guy is on the verge of 20ppg/7rpg stats.

You can see it in his work ethic.. He's improved every year he's played. You don't improve unless you put the time in. He could have just been one of those players who gets more minutes and scores a bit more but the %s are still about the same or a bit worse. Those are the guys I would stay away from.

 

[kingdivac]

I think most fans have a tendency to either over value or undervalue their own players.
Porter is one of those players who didn't live up to expectations right away, and that is something some fans never get over. He has turned into an above average, consistent, 2-way player who isn't flashy. These are the type of players who look easy to replace until you have to actually replace them.

For me, the Wizards fans' sentiment that matched my memory called him average - not great, not bad - his words. I haven't watched Porter enough, but if he can be a great deep shooter and defender, and the Kings want to overpay him, that's one thing. The risk is his play falls off or plateaus. And there is that risk. This whole thing may not materialize and the Wizards resign him, but the Kings certainly put the Wizards on the clock.

 

[ParniValjak]

Seen Porter quite a bit.. Not as much as Wiz fans, but I think the guy is on the verge of 20ppg/7rpg stats.

You can see it in his work ethic.. He's improved every year he's played. You don't improve unless you put the time in. He could have just been one of those players who gets more minutes and scores a bit more but the %s are still about the same or a bit worse. Those are the guys I would stay away from.

Not sure about the 20ppg part but there is no reason why he should not be a 17/7 type player.

Averaging 20ppg in the NBA is not an easy thing to do. You need to be a polished scorer or physically dominant to get there. Porter is not any of those things but he is still a darn good player.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

He had a bunch of chances to be consistent....I liked McClemore and was hoping he'd pull together, but he just didn't. I think his turnovers/dribbling are his big Achilles. Dribbling is like shooting though, you can work on it.

Exactly. Front office aside, we gave him plenty of opportunity to work out at least of a few of the kinks in his game. The fact that he never improved any aspect of his game the entire time he was here is very telling. Wish him the best for sure, but I doubt he sticks around in the league long term.

 

[steelevt]

Aaron Bruski‏Verified account@aaronbruski
Wolves appear to be floating OKC’s 2018 pick for anybody that will take on Cole Aldrich’s $7 million deal. Kings prolly wanna look at that

if its true we really should. people were willing to take on crabbe, leonard or turner's contract for a 1st rounder. this is a way better deal

 

[Kingz19]

I watched several of the Wizards/Celtics playoff games, and don't remember Porter sticking out......then I read this from a Wizards fan, and it has me a bit worried (sort of verifying my memory):

"Is it possible for the Wiz to trade Porter and get something decent in return? There was some question that Beal was not worth a max contract last year. But, the Wiz have been so bad over the years, they pretty much had to give Beal anything he wanted. A max contract for Porter? They could have resigned him last season, but there was some question in the Wiz organization about whether they would keep Porter much longer. He is not good enough to help the Wiz reach the next level. Why pay him all that money. He has had three or four years to show he is a max player and has not done it. His performance in the playoffs was average overall. Not great, not bad. Just another guy out there who makes the occasional good play. Leonsis will not pay the luxury tax. Why waste all that salary cap money on Wall, Beal and Porter when the Wiz are at least two good starters and at least two good reserves away from being a real contender. "

Granted I haven't followed Porter enough to be a good judge......but anyway.

I understand that fans perspective. Kings circumstances are a bit different.

Wizards maxing out Porter is commiting to a core that quite frankly isn't good enough and it's a possibility that Porters production remains role player level with Wall and Beal dominating the ball. If we were in the Wizards spot..I'd be adamant about not maxing out Porter.

Kings have the money and then some. They believe Porter is an all star caliber talent that fits into their vision in a bigger role. He's only 24 and it's not a commitment to a core. Kings still have tons of flexibility in assets and cap space if we max out Porter.

I don't really care how he played in the playoffs. If he disappeared at times you may have noticed John Wall and Bradley Beal often resorting to alternating one on one ball. Wizards lost because all their other guys would disappear for long stretches while Wall and Beal went into Ball buffalo mode. Morris, Gortat, Potrter. I watched the games and Porter played fine.

 

[pdizo916]

Aaron Bruski‏Verified account@aaronbruski
Wolves appear to be floating OKC’s 2018 pick for anybody that will take on Cole Aldrich’s $7 million deal. Kings prolly wanna look at that

if its true we really should. people were willing to take on crabbe, leonard or turner's contract for a 1st rounder. this is a way better deal

If they didn't draft Giles, then I would be all over that.

 

[gunks]

If they didn't draft Giles, then I would be all over that.

If the plan is to bring Giles along super slowly than why not? Cole probably won't get any minutes anyways with KK, Skal, WCS, and Big Papa on the roster. Same goes for Giles.

I don't know how long Cole's deal is, but if it's only for a couple years I'd love for us to get another pick, even one in the late lotto.

Vlade is almost like a mini Hinkie over here when it comes to stacking youth! Well, as "mini"as a 7 foot, 250+lbs man can be!

 

[kingdivac]

I understand that fans perspective. Kings circumstances are a bit different.

Wizards maxing out Porter is commiting to a core that quite frankly isn't good enough and it's a possibility that Porters production remains role player level with Wall and Beal dominating the ball. If we were in the Wizards spot..I'd be adamant about not maxing out Porter.

Kings have the money and then some. They believe Porter is an all star caliber talent that fits into their vision in a bigger role. He's only 24 and it's not a commitment to a core. Kings still have tons of flexibility in assets and cap space if we max out Porter.

I don't really care how he played in the playoffs. If he disappeared at times you may have noticed John Wall and Bradley Beal often resorting to alternating one on one ball. Wizards lost because all their other guys would disappear for long stretches while Wall and Beal went into Ball buffalo mode. Morris, Gortat, Potrter. I watched the games and Porter played fine.

You dont care how he played in the playoffs? I think its certainly something to consider when offering a gigantic salary, but anyway, the Kings have made their decision, and its out of their hands (and of course ours). It's ultimately up to the Wizards management.

If I recall the Wizards/Celtics series was driven by home-court mostly....Wizards looked super-charged on their home-floor. I think it was the 2nd most entertaining series behind the Jazz/Clippers 2017 playoffs.

 

[The Hammer]

I understand that fans perspective. Kings circumstances are a bit different.

Wizards maxing out Porter is commiting to a core that quite frankly isn't good enough and it's a possibility that Porters production remains role player level with Wall and Beal dominating the ball. If we were in the Wizards spot..I'd be adamant about not maxing out Porter.

Kings have the money and then some. They believe Porter is an all star caliber talent that fits into their vision in a bigger role. He's only 24 and it's not a commitment to a core. Kings still have tons of flexibility in assets and cap space if we max out Porter.

I don't really care how he played in the playoffs. If he disappeared at times you may have noticed John Wall and Bradley Beal often resorting to alternating one on one ball. Wizards lost because all their other guys would disappear for long stretches while Wall and Beal went into Ball buffalo mode. Morris, Gortat, Potrter. I watched the games and Porter played fine.

Nailed it.

This is a classic change of scenery makes the player shine situation.

 

[Telemachus]

I understand that fans perspective. Kings circumstances are a bit different.

Wizards maxing out Porter is commiting to a core that quite frankly isn't good enough and it's a possibility that Porters production remains role player level with Wall and Beal dominating the ball. If we were in the Wizards spot..I'd be adamant about not maxing out Porter.

Kings have the money and then some. They believe Porter is an all star caliber talent that fits into their vision in a bigger role. He's only 24 and it's not a commitment to a core. Kings still have tons of flexibility in assets and cap space if we max out Porter.

I don't really care how he played in the playoffs. If he disappeared at times you may have noticed John Wall and Bradley Beal often resorting to alternating one on one ball. Wizards lost because all their other guys would disappear for long stretches while Wall and Beal went into Ball buffalo mode. Morris, Gortat, Potrter. I watched the games and Porter played fine.

The Wizards are facing a similar situation to what led the Kings to trade Cousins. Obviously, the Wizards are a better team, but matching Porter's offer would almost eliminate any chances they have of improving the next couple of years. While they would be good enough to make the playoffs, they would have almost zero chance of getting to the Finals. If the Kings had kept Cousins they would have had what they could get in free agency this year as their only real chance of improvement for a couple of years as well. While that may have been good enough to make the playoffs, it wouldn't have been good enough to go far in them.

 

[Ozymandias]

 

[Ozymandias]

 

[Ozymandias]

 

[Kingz19]

You dont care how he played in the playoffs? I think its certainly something to consider when offering a gigantic salary, but anyway, the Kings have made their decision, and its out of their hands (and of course ours). It's ultimately up to the Wizards management.

If I recall the Wizards/Celtics series was driven by home-court mostly....Wizards looked super-charged on their home-floor. I think it was the 2nd most entertaining series behind the Jazz/Clippers 2017 playoffs.

All things considered no...and again, he played fine in the playoffs. Especially in the Boston series with the exception of a dismal game 6 but had 20 points and 10 rebounds in game 7(he played better than Wall in the biggest game).., And had lines 19-8, 16-11, 18-8, 13-9-4 in other games. That's overall a good series for a third or fourth target on that particular team. There was still Morris who was seemingly a more preferable target for Wall.

It was Porters play in the Atlanta series that was inconsistent with his regular season numbers but at that same point, he didn't lay an egg.

But yes, it doesn't matter because like I said...he's a repressed talent in Washington. They use him as a 3 and D guy when he also has a good game going to the basket. A strong floater and pull up shot. The Kings aren't offering him the max hoping he's a 13-6 player. They are expecting that he would likely be a near 20+ and 8 guy with a more usage. I think they're right. Is he a "max" player...probably not but Millsap and Lowry about to make 30 mill per. If Porter averages say 20-8 or even a more modest increase to 18-7 in his first year, I'm not going to worry about his deal...especially when you take into account that the need to overpay is an inescapable reality not just because the Kings are a small market team, but one that has sucked for over a decade.

 

[ESP47]

Every player has a few good games.

 

[Hansel]

Vince Carter would be a great sign, true pro.

 

[funkykingston]

Aaron Bruski‏Verified account@aaronbruski
Wolves appear to be floating OKC’s 2018 pick for anybody that will take on Cole Aldrich’s $7 million deal. Kings prolly wanna look at that

if its true we really should. people were willing to take on crabbe, leonard or turner's contract for a 1st rounder. this is a way better deal

I'd do it and just cut Aldrich even though I really like him as a backup center. Just not enough roster spots. Or you could do it and then trade Koufos.

It's definitely a better deal than taking on Leonard or Turner's deal as Aldrich is signed for less and for two years instead of three.

That said, Portland was a near lottery team last season and OKC had a better record BEFORE adding Paul George. That pick is likely in the 24-28 range.

 

[kingdivac]

Vince Carter would be a great sign, true pro.

Vince Carter is over 40 years old - even though a true pro, that's a large injury risk. His minutes would have to be kept to about 16 min per game and even then, high injury risk. He'd also have to be willing to take a piddling salary too.

 

[Entity]

Vince Carter is over 40 years old - even though a true pro, that's a large injury risk. His minutes would have to be kept to about 16 min per game and even then, high injury risk. He'd also have to be willing to take a piddling salary too.

I don't think that signing would be because we expected 25 year old Vince. Imagine the stories and lessons he could teach our youngsters

 

[joemama]

Aaron Bruski‏Verified account@aaronbruski
Wolves appear to be floating OKC’s 2018 pick for anybody that will take on Cole Aldrich’s $7 million deal. Kings prolly wanna look at that

Love me some cole, but the protections are pretty steep from what i remember. If it becomes (something like) an okc 2nd rounder then its not really worth it imho

 

[Hansel]

Vince Carter is over 40 years old - even though a true pro, that's a large injury risk. His minutes would have to be kept to about 16 min per game and even then, high injury risk. He'd also have to be willing to take a piddling salary too.

0 minutes per game and I'll be still cool with him.
Like Caron Butler two years ago.
We pay him for his locker room presence. I mean, Vivek pays him.

 

[KingsFanGER]

0 minutes per game and I'll be still cool with him.
Like Caron Butler two years ago.
We pay him for his locker room presence. I mean, Vivek pays him.

Listened to him during Summer league. The guy wants to play and he wants to play meaningful minutes. Not ready for an end of bench role yet. Maybe in 2-3 years.
For him it's minutes and role over playing for a championship. Actually I think that's a pretty impressive line of thought in todays ring chasing league.

 

[funkykingston]

Love me some cole, but the protections are pretty steep from what i remember. If it becomes (something like) an okc 2nd rounder then its not really worth it imho

Just lottery protected for three years. Unless Russ and/or PG13 suffer major injuries I have to think it conveys next season.

If the Kings just want to absorb salary they could trade for Aldrich, Carroll, and Faried and pick up draft picks from OKC (via MIN), TOR, and DEN.

And they'd still have enough cap to sign a veteran PG for one season.

I'm not saying they should, but those opportunities are out there if they want to continue accumulating assets.

Carroll would actually be a decent pickup and I like Aldrich though I'm not sure he fills a need in this team.

But I think I'd rather see the Kings sign Hill outright than help the Nuggets shed salary and take on Faried just so they can sign him.

This all assumes the Wizards match on Porter of course.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Just lottery protected for three years. Unless Russ and/or PG13 suffer major injuries I have to think it conveys next season.

If the Kings just want to absorb salary they could trade for Aldrich, Carroll, and Faried and pick up draft picks from OKC (via MIN), TOR, and DEN.

And they'd still have enough cap to sign a veteran PG for one season.

I'm not saying they should, but those opportunities are out there if they want to continue accumulating assets.

Carroll would actually be a decent pickup and I like Aldrich though I'm not sure he fills a need in this team.

But I think I'd rather see the Kings sign Hill outright than help the Nuggets shed salary and take on Faried just so they can sign him.

This all assumes the Wizards match on Porter of course.

I know folks here are attached to Koufos but he has a player option for 2018-19, and, as good as a sport as he's been so far, I'd have to believe he declines that option and walks next summer. Now, if you can trade him for something like a late first, AND replace him with someone like Aldrich, while netting another late 1st, why not? Are his contributions/mentoring to Papa worth two first rounders?