The Kings Future Might Be Brighter than One Thinks
- Thread starter CruzDude
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Thanks for the advice.
I respect the grieving process. And it's not for me to tell any individual Kings fan to move on and leave the Kings behind, including you. But collectively, I believe there are plenty of Kings fans who aren't really Kings fans (anymore), and they just haven't realized it yet.
You are clearly a super loyal fan who is grieving. I am, too, but to a lesser extent. But there are more than a few Kingsfan posters who will never reach the acceptance stage because they're stuck in denial, anger, bargaining, or depression. So my observation is that there is a natural process of fan purging going on these days.
I like a vigorous, intelligent debate, so this is not about wanting to purge critical fans who refuse to come together and sing kumbaya on command.
But when a fan wants nothing but failure for the team and the organization, I think they've crossed a line. Just my opinion.
I respect the grieving process. And it's not for me to tell any individual Kings fan to move on and leave the Kings behind, including you. But collectively, I believe there are plenty of Kings fans who aren't really Kings fans (anymore), and they just haven't realized it yet.
You are clearly a super loyal fan who is grieving. I am, too, but to a lesser extent. But there are more than a few Kingsfan posters who will never reach the acceptance stage because they're stuck in denial, anger, bargaining, or depression. So my observation is that there is a natural process of fan purging going on these days.
I like a vigorous, intelligent debate, so this is not about wanting to purge critical fans who refuse to come together and sing kumbaya on command.
But when a fan wants nothing but failure for the team and the organization, I think they've crossed a line. Just my opinion.
Listening to this thread since posting the original article several observations occur from watching games up thru Friday night 10 March:
- some fans lose perspective that Kings look relatively secure in getting 2 high lottery picks this year, theirs and Pelicans;
- the phantom team growth expected past few years may finally happen and with a great coach;
- draft 1-10 is loaded this year with PG and SF, the two biggest Kings needs;
- Willie getting major minutes is showing us what he can bring (not every night yet but sooner than later);
- Heild seems the SG needed and has fab stroke and fearless approach and is lowering his TO's;
- Skal is emerging big time and looks like the steal of last years draft;
- Temple has become a significant mentor to the "kids" as well as being Kings best defender;
- Coach experimenting with different lineup combos to see who works with whom better;
- IMHO trade working out well for Kings;
- I miss Cousins' play for sure but NBA is a business first and changes are always occurring.
Kings fan since 1989, season ticket holder 1990-1997, then moved in 1998 to coast for business.
- some fans lose perspective that Kings look relatively secure in getting 2 high lottery picks this year, theirs and Pelicans;
- the phantom team growth expected past few years may finally happen and with a great coach;
- draft 1-10 is loaded this year with PG and SF, the two biggest Kings needs;
- Willie getting major minutes is showing us what he can bring (not every night yet but sooner than later);
- Heild seems the SG needed and has fab stroke and fearless approach and is lowering his TO's;
- Skal is emerging big time and looks like the steal of last years draft;
- Temple has become a significant mentor to the "kids" as well as being Kings best defender;
- Coach experimenting with different lineup combos to see who works with whom better;
- IMHO trade working out well for Kings;
- I miss Cousins' play for sure but NBA is a business first and changes are always occurring.
Kings fan since 1989, season ticket holder 1990-1997, then moved in 1998 to coast for business.
I swear - if people don't quit using that statement to justify the trade, I'm going to vomit up my spleen.
I think we all KNOW it's a business. What a lot of us (as evidenced in numerous threads) are upset about is how it was handled. Vlade bungled it and bungled it badly. For someone who made a big deal of "Character matters," Vlade showed a deplorable lack of said virtue when the deal went down. Yes, it's a business but it doesn't mean you can't be honorable. Vlade should have been the one to tell Boogie he had been traded. You'd think he'd be a little more understanding, especially since I'm sure he remembers how Peja found out he was headed to the Pacers.
I think we all KNOW it's a business. What a lot of us (as evidenced in numerous threads) are upset about is how it was handled. Vlade bungled it and bungled it badly. For someone who made a big deal of "Character matters," Vlade showed a deplorable lack of said virtue when the deal went down. Yes, it's a business but it doesn't mean you can't be honorable. Vlade should have been the one to tell Boogie he had been traded. You'd think he'd be a little more understanding, especially since I'm sure he remembers how Peja found out he was headed to the Pacers.
I curious, just exactly is your point? I think I can agree that the whole thing could have, should have been handled better. But without knowing all the circumstances involved, I can't totally condemn Vlade. There are separate arguments here, and I assume, like you, I'm tired of them. But if we all get together and condemn Vlade, then what? Do we stone him to death? Do we hate him until eternity? What if in two or three years the Kings are a contender? Then what, do we release Vlade from hate prison?
I'm saying this as a friend, and likely you won't take it that way, but your just a tad touchy right now. Take a deep breath and remember, it's just a freaking game.
I'm saying this as a friend, and likely you won't take it that way, but your just a tad touchy right now. Take a deep breath and remember, it's just a freaking game.
Actually the 1-3 protection on the Pelicans pick may come back to bite us in this draft. They are stinking the place up too and may have a real shot at jumping up in the lottery. With how poorly we've been playing I feel that we are pretty solid getting our pick. Hopefully we don't regret that swap this year on it with the Sixers.
Even if Kings go on to win the championship next season the end result still does not justify the means.
The way the whole situation has been handled by Vlade because he is after all in charge has been nothing short of deplorable. Do you see any respectable franchise in the NBA handling ANY trade, let alone that of a franchise player, like the Kings have handled Cousins trade? The answer is HELL NO!
Just because it might, and the emphasis is on might, turn out OK in the end, it doesn't make the whole situation less deplorable than it is. Even if it is business, it doesn't meant that you cannot be honorable, honest, fair and classy!
The way the whole situation has been handled by Vlade because he is after all in charge has been nothing short of deplorable. Do you see any respectable franchise in the NBA handling ANY trade, let alone that of a franchise player, like the Kings have handled Cousins trade? The answer is HELL NO!
Just because it might, and the emphasis is on might, turn out OK in the end, it doesn't make the whole situation less deplorable than it is. Even if it is business, it doesn't meant that you cannot be honorable, honest, fair and classy!
I think Vlade blew the trade in two ways:
1. Not being honest with DMC about the decision to trade him (i.e. assuring him he wouldn't be traded and then trading him a few days later), and
2. Not ensuring that DMC heard about the trade from him first.
I'm also irritated with Vlade for repeatedly emphasizing the importance of "character" when justifying the trade. That's an unnecessary slap in the face at DMC.
BUT, the reason I think it's valid to say "this is a business" is because someone in Vlade's position can't control everything that Monday morning quarterbacks (like us) think they should control, like the actions of player agents and other team owners and execs not keeping your secrets until it's convenient for you.
All in all, I'm over it. I'm not going to applaud Vlade this year, however. He needs to earn some trust back from me before he's completely out of my doghouse.
1. Not being honest with DMC about the decision to trade him (i.e. assuring him he wouldn't be traded and then trading him a few days later), and
2. Not ensuring that DMC heard about the trade from him first.
I'm also irritated with Vlade for repeatedly emphasizing the importance of "character" when justifying the trade. That's an unnecessary slap in the face at DMC.
BUT, the reason I think it's valid to say "this is a business" is because someone in Vlade's position can't control everything that Monday morning quarterbacks (like us) think they should control, like the actions of player agents and other team owners and execs not keeping your secrets until it's convenient for you.
All in all, I'm over it. I'm not going to applaud Vlade this year, however. He needs to earn some trust back from me before he's completely out of my doghouse.
Sorry but I disagree about the agent thing. Sure he cannot control it but the problem here is thathe didn't anticipate it. He was completely blind sided by it. Agents do this sort of thing since Adam is a boy. Blind Freddy would see that Cousins' agents were going to do everything in their power to discourage the deal because their clint, and by extension Cousins' agents were going to lose multi-milions if the trade goes ahead.
To not expect agent meddling in the manner they did was amateurish at best.
To not expect agent meddling in the manner they did was amateurish at best.
The touchy line had nothing to do with Vlade or the Cousins trade. It had to do with an innocent comment made by a friend of VF21's which she decided to jump on. So yes, I think that was just a bit touchy. As for the Cousins trade and the Vlade business, I'm not interested in discussing it. I've got better things to do with my time than get involved in a bunch of hate gossip. But you folks go ahead and enjoy yourselves.
would totally suck if we got the 1st finally then swap to 4th with philly then see NO get 2nd or 3rd. they'd instantly rebuild and get good quick w/ the addition of boogie + top 3 pick. dell demps i'd say should get GM of year for that alone. only the kangz could fumble and stumble so mightily if the stars aligned that way.
I'm trying to understand, how should the trade have been handled? previously you wrote:
"The way the whole situation has been handled by Vlade because he is after all in charge has been nothing short of deplorable. Do you see any respectable franchise in the NBA handling ANY trade, let alone that of a franchise player, like the Kings have handled Cousins trade? The answer is HELL NO!"
So far the primary point of the trade that seem to have people upset are:
1) Vlade stating DMC would not be traded, then he was.
2) DMC not hearing it first from Vlade.
3) Not getting enough in return.
I am against the trade in two ways for selfish reasons. I love to watch Boogie play and he expressed loyalty to Sacramento and was shown none by the Kings Front Office.
That said DMC is a polarizing individual. The constant complaining to the Refs, 2 night club incidents, beef with coaches he did not like, fights/yelling at team mates, beef with Sean Elliot, flipping off the GSW fan and lagging on defense as he pouted about Refs calls all caused this. So when Vlade expresses a desire to "Change the culture" I do understand where he is coming from.
"The way the whole situation has been handled by Vlade because he is after all in charge has been nothing short of deplorable. Do you see any respectable franchise in the NBA handling ANY trade, let alone that of a franchise player, like the Kings have handled Cousins trade? The answer is HELL NO!"
So far the primary point of the trade that seem to have people upset are:
1) Vlade stating DMC would not be traded, then he was.
2) DMC not hearing it first from Vlade.
3) Not getting enough in return.
I am against the trade in two ways for selfish reasons. I love to watch Boogie play and he expressed loyalty to Sacramento and was shown none by the Kings Front Office.
That said DMC is a polarizing individual. The constant complaining to the Refs, 2 night club incidents, beef with coaches he did not like, fights/yelling at team mates, beef with Sean Elliot, flipping off the GSW fan and lagging on defense as he pouted about Refs calls all caused this. So when Vlade expresses a desire to "Change the culture" I do understand where he is coming from.
I wouldn't be mad. Give me the 4th pick all day long. I watch as much duke basketball as I do kings and let me say that Jayson Tatum is the real deal. While losing fultz would suck, going from Rudy gay to Jayson Tatum would make it suck much less. Also I'm expecting to lose the pelicans pick. It's such a kings thing to happen that I'm not even thinking about it. It'll make the franchise backlash much more tolerable.
What's telling, to me anyway, is your attitude toward Vlade now. If anyone had reason to be overly biased toward #21 and make excuses for him, it would certainly be you. But you aren't doing that. If that doesn't speak volumes I don't know what does.
IMO, anybody looking at the situation objectively should easily be able to see that Vlade is not only doing a poor job, but he's preaching something he's not exactly practicing. He's also being hypocritical. Not only was character lacking in the manner in which he handled the Cousins situation, this team still employs players that have had off-court issues that many might believe lack character.
As my handle suggests, I've been a fan of this team (in Sacramento) as long as anybody. I've seen and been through a lot. Lots of down times. Lots of mediocre players. Lots of poor decision making. Because of that, I've admittedly become more quick to say that I'm giving up on the team. I did so when this trade went down. Yet I'm still here. Sometimes I really don't know why. I still harbor disdain for ownership and the front office. I honestly don't believe that'll change anytime soon, if at all because it goes well beyond just one thing.
Having conveyed that, I hold no contempt toward any of the players or Coach Joerger and I still want to see them win. I'm just very dispirited right now. It's just gonna take time for me to invest both emotionally and financially in this franchise again. And that may not happen until the real problem is addressed and changed for the better.
IMO, anybody looking at the situation objectively should easily be able to see that Vlade is not only doing a poor job, but he's preaching something he's not exactly practicing. He's also being hypocritical. Not only was character lacking in the manner in which he handled the Cousins situation, this team still employs players that have had off-court issues that many might believe lack character.
As my handle suggests, I've been a fan of this team (in Sacramento) as long as anybody. I've seen and been through a lot. Lots of down times. Lots of mediocre players. Lots of poor decision making. Because of that, I've admittedly become more quick to say that I'm giving up on the team. I did so when this trade went down. Yet I'm still here. Sometimes I really don't know why. I still harbor disdain for ownership and the front office. I honestly don't believe that'll change anytime soon, if at all because it goes well beyond just one thing.
Having conveyed that, I hold no contempt toward any of the players or Coach Joerger and I still want to see them win. I'm just very dispirited right now. It's just gonna take time for me to invest both emotionally and financially in this franchise again. And that may not happen until the real problem is addressed and changed for the better.
I'm trying to understand, how should the trade have been handled? previously you wrote:
"The way the whole situation has been handled by Vlade because he is after all in charge has been nothing short of deplorable. Do you see any respectable franchise in the NBA handling ANY trade, let alone that of a franchise player, like the Kings have handled Cousins trade? The answer is HELL NO!"
So far the primary point of the trade that seem to have people upset are:
1) Vlade stating DMC would not be traded, then he was.
2) DMC not hearing it first from Vlade.
3) Not getting enough in return.
I am against the trade in two ways for selfish reasons. I love to watch Boogie play and he expressed loyalty to Sacramento and was shown none by the Kings Front Office.
That said DMC is a polarizing individual. The constant complaining to the Refs, 2 night club incidents, beef with coaches he did not like, fights/yelling at team mates, beef with Sean Elliot, flipping off the GSW fan and lagging on defense as he pouted about Refs calls all caused this. So when Vlade expresses a desire to "Change the culture" I do understand where he is coming from.
"The way the whole situation has been handled by Vlade because he is after all in charge has been nothing short of deplorable. Do you see any respectable franchise in the NBA handling ANY trade, let alone that of a franchise player, like the Kings have handled Cousins trade? The answer is HELL NO!"
So far the primary point of the trade that seem to have people upset are:
1) Vlade stating DMC would not be traded, then he was.
2) DMC not hearing it first from Vlade.
3) Not getting enough in return.
I am against the trade in two ways for selfish reasons. I love to watch Boogie play and he expressed loyalty to Sacramento and was shown none by the Kings Front Office.
That said DMC is a polarizing individual. The constant complaining to the Refs, 2 night club incidents, beef with coaches he did not like, fights/yelling at team mates, beef with Sean Elliot, flipping off the GSW fan and lagging on defense as he pouted about Refs calls all caused this. So when Vlade expresses a desire to "Change the culture" I do understand where he is coming from.
What Vlade should have done is what every capable GM would do. When asked a question give the answer that no one in the NBA is untouchable but it would take a god father offer to trade a franchise player. Say the same thing to Boogie and his agents. Not we will sign a max contract in the summer then trade him so he loses some $90 million.
What every player and especially Boogie values is the up front honesty and they hate deceitful people which Vlade proved in this case. Geoff Petrie had a line, "he is a King until he no longer is a King"! Then he had the nerve for calling out agents for being deceitful and sabotaging the trade?! Really dude! You just pulled a swifty and you are blaming the others for fightiback?!
Then at the press conference you proceed to practically give one massive whack to Boogie about culture mattering and then throw the agents under the bus, the very agents you will be dealing with in the future. Good luck signing their clients.
What a respectable franchise and admirable GM would do is say that everyone is tradeable for the right deal. Sit Boogie and his agent down and tell them exactly the same thing. We like you we think, you are our guy but I cannot promise you anything because I don't know what offer can come in. If you get a deal you like you pick up the phone and sit Boogie down face to face and say look, this is wherre franchise is at. We got this offer for you. I think its best for both. I am not confident that I have enough resources to put a team around you that you deserve. You deserve to win and I am limited in what I can do to do that in Sacramento. Boogie would still be disappointed because he wanted to be the player that bring Sacramento back. But at least he would respect that and he would have the respect for franchise and Vlade. Now the bridge is burnt.
When you trade him, have some class in the presser and thank him for everything he has done for the franchise and in the community, wish him all the best, say that he will always be part of the fabric of the Kings and say how this needed to be done in order to get to the level we want to get to. Not because Cousins was not good enough but because we would struggle to put a team around him that would get us there due to lack of assets and resources to do it and how Cousins also deserves to experience winning.
Instead what Vlade basically did was tell Cuz I've got your back then as soon as Boogie turned his back to him he took out the chainsaw and proceeded to cut off limb at a time.....Vlade made it messy....a blood bath when it could have been so easily avoided. That's not how respectable franchises do business. You can still make tough decisions but do it respectfully and with dignity. What was done was amateurish at best and has cost this franchise more than just losing franchise player for peanuts. Agents remember, players remember and the sooner Vlade goes the better it will be for the Kings because not only has he burnt bridges with Boogie but with agent who represent other players. If I was a free agent this summer I would not trust a word coming out of Vlade's mouth. And that is coming from a Serb who idolized Vlade throughout my teenage years and into the 20s.
Mike Malone was not agreeing with Cousins but he was upfront with him good or bad and Cuz respected and still respects that.
Let's be fair to Vlade for a minute. If he honest to the media and said DMC could be moved for the right price and was not untouchable, he would have been met with scorn from the Kings fan base. Remember when George Karl said Cousins wasn't untouchable and had to fix his attitude, but was met with contempt from many on this site for not backing Cousins 100%?
I believe in another post I mentioned something about hypocrisy. This is not an excuse for Vlade. He handled it poorly. He not only lied to Boogie but he also lied to the fan base.
But then there is the agent. You say that Boogie values upfront honesty and hates deceitful people. Why then would he hire someone like Fegan? It appears he might be a piece of work himself. I knew he had a history. The following article gives some insight from his previous employer. And the reasons they filed suit against him.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245258/ISE-Files-Suit-Against-Dan-Fegan
As both sides say, "It's just the business." And both sides talk out of both ends.
But then there is the agent. You say that Boogie values upfront honesty and hates deceitful people. Why then would he hire someone like Fegan? It appears he might be a piece of work himself. I knew he had a history. The following article gives some insight from his previous employer. And the reasons they filed suit against him.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245258/ISE-Files-Suit-Against-Dan-Fegan
As both sides say, "It's just the business." And both sides talk out of both ends.