2017 Team Discussion and Possible Trades
- Thread starter CyKings
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Not only Milsap, but Thabo and Korver (washed up) too:
http://basketball.realgm.com/news
Would think Willie maybe if they are pondering rebuild situation. If they are afraid of losing Milsap, not sure how trading them our own enders overcomes that fear. Need them to match of course, but I would think they'd need something longterm. I actually am not eager to give up Malachi or Skal. But Willie has really scared me, and if we're doing Milsap, then a Cuz/Milsap/Koufos frontline is rock solid, and not in need of much adornment. Spot minutes for Tolliver, development minutes for Skal, we're covered.
I think
Milsap
Thabo
for
Rudy
Ben
Willie
actually works monetarily. Just don't know what the market is for those guys on Atlanta. Will somebody actually give them something of value for expirings? Those guys are too old for a young team to give them picks, so it would have to be a team like us, veteran and looking to move up in the playoff races.
http://basketball.realgm.com/news
Would think Willie maybe if they are pondering rebuild situation. If they are afraid of losing Milsap, not sure how trading them our own enders overcomes that fear. Need them to match of course, but I would think they'd need something longterm. I actually am not eager to give up Malachi or Skal. But Willie has really scared me, and if we're doing Milsap, then a Cuz/Milsap/Koufos frontline is rock solid, and not in need of much adornment. Spot minutes for Tolliver, development minutes for Skal, we're covered.
I think
Milsap
Thabo
for
Rudy
Ben
Willie
actually works monetarily. Just don't know what the market is for those guys on Atlanta. Will somebody actually give them something of value for expirings? Those guys are too old for a young team to give them picks, so it would have to be a team like us, veteran and looking to move up in the playoff races.
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Yeah, I'd give up Willie for Milsap. You're acquiring an all-star and a guy I think is top 5 at his position. You can also replace WCS with Skal or a guy like Noel in free agency.
Not sure the Kings are looking at a guy who is a rental type though.
Atlanta might value Ben more than other teams in hopes of redeeming him as a pure shooter.
Not sure the Kings are looking at a guy who is a rental type though.
Atlanta might value Ben more than other teams in hopes of redeeming him as a pure shooter.
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Point taken, and agree, but would feel the same way about WCS. Karl was a disaster for him. I still see massive upside, and minor progress. I suppose you have to give something to get something, but seeing WCS go would hurt. I don't want another Whiteside situation.
On the other hand, if I have to keep one or the other of Skal and WCS, I'm keeping Skal.
On the other hand, if I have to keep one or the other of Skal and WCS, I'm keeping Skal.
I think Millsap would be a very nice fit next to Cousins and add Kosta to the mix and that is a rock solid front court.
Having said that, Atlanta is open to trading him for a reason. Would you be comfortable giving a 31 year old Paul Millsap a max type money in the offseason because that is what it is going to cost to keep him. I am not talking Cousins max of 6 years and some $220 million but max money for about 4-5 years?
Having said that, Atlanta is open to trading him for a reason. Would you be comfortable giving a 31 year old Paul Millsap a max type money in the offseason because that is what it is going to cost to keep him. I am not talking Cousins max of 6 years and some $220 million but max money for about 4-5 years?
Why, that could result in a Knight and Gay difference for our team!
Ouch! Stop hitting!
Or even better - Gay for Knight is a move François Truffaut would surely approve of!
Ouch! Stop hitting!
Or even better - Gay for Knight is a move François Truffaut would surely approve of!
Knight has had a bad year, but I don't think they give him away for free. However, we could have a 3-team deal where the Suns get a 1st round pick, Kings get Knight, and the 3rd team gets Gay.
Not directed to you, but ....I think some may be over-valuing Skal by a lot bit. At this point, he's still a raw 20yearold PF who's only real strength right now is shooting. He's improving a lot by adding more offensive moves, but he's inconsistent with it. His body still needs a lot of work. From an NBA standpoint, he's way too weak and scrawny to have any real impact yet.
I just don't think you can put him in this pile of "untouchable" when he hasn't proven a single thing in the NBA. People seem to be more enamored by highschool Labissiere..and not college Labissiere. People also seem to be more enamored by the thought of his potential...rather than him, himself.
Not directed to you, but ....I think some may be over-valuing Skal by a lot bit. At this point, he's still a raw 20yearold PF who's only real strength right now is shooting. He's improving a lot by adding more offensive moves, but he's inconsistent with it. His body still needs a lot of work. From an NBA standpoint, he's way too weak and scrawny to have any real impact yet.
I just don't think you can put him in this pile of "untouchable" when he hasn't proven a single thing in the NBA. People seem to be more enamored by highschool Labissiere..and not college Labissiere. People also seem to be more enamored by the thought of his potential...rather than him, himself.
Still he is a 6'11 guy with great lift and a high release point on his jumpshot and a decent hook shot. His presumed "weakness" isn't really a factor in todays NBA, because he will continue to grow into his body. Shying away from contact and refusing to hustle like WCS would be a huge red flag, but from the D-league footage available Skal seems to have a decent motor and isn't afraid to bang inside.
Obviously he will most likely never back anyone down, but he can finish over guys with both hands and has "pick&pop-big" written all over him.
So in the end I think Skal shouldn't be a throw in in trades, that only fetch us a mediocre rotation player. It may be a different situation, if we could trade for a second star, but this is very unlikely and it shouldn't be a half year rental.
Obviously he will most likely never back anyone down, but he can finish over guys with both hands and has "pick&pop-big" written all over him.
So in the end I think Skal shouldn't be a throw in in trades, that only fetch us a mediocre rotation player. It may be a different situation, if we could trade for a second star, but this is very unlikely and it shouldn't be a half year rental.
Skal has good potential, but if we're talking about competing with Cousins right now, I don't see him contributing until next year. A lot of his NBA progressions will come down to his strength and bulking up. In 2014, he was at 210. In 2015, he was at 216. In 2016, he was at 216. Hopefully NBA conditioning can whip him into shape?
I don't think Skal should be a throw-away piece in any trade, but I'd have no problem trading him.
I don't think Skal should be a throw-away piece in any trade, but I'd have no problem trading him.
Well we have to agree to disagree, but honestly I never favour trading young players and tend to overvalue them. 
This whole bulking thing seems extremely weird, when it comes to basketball. Bulking in strength sports? Ok I understand that - but in basketball? Why? Of course every professional athlete will follow some kind of conditioning program. But what use has the gain weight at all costs approach in a sport, which is more about technique than pure force and where the biggest issue is to get through a 82game grind?
With Skal being 20 years old I would think, that his body will change quite a bit over the next years without trying to bulk the weight up.
I would worry about Skals weight, if teams would beat us with back to the basket plays. But honestly the bigger issue are teams beating us from 3 and when defending in face up situations more weight isn't all that needed. In fact I would gladly take back to the basket plays over pick&rolls and 3 pointers. I take guys like Green, Ibaka or "insert average NBA PF here" trying to beat me inside over Curry or Irving or Lillard carving me up from outside.
His weight being an issue while rebounding? Yes maybe, but long shots - long rebounds and we all know even guys like DMC aren't allowed to clear their defender out, when he has good position for the rebound. So for me rebounding is more about tenacity and positioning, than actual strength and weight. At least you can be an average rebounder, without being the strongest and heaviest dude on the floor. Last game we saw Malachi doing something I can envision Skal doing and that's boxing his man out with full force. That's a simple, basic basketball play I see less and less and I simply don't understand why. Even a 6'0 guard can do that. Of course he will get overpowered, but chances are, that the opposing player needs to use so much force to fight through the box out, that he gets called for the foul (Marcus Smart uses this cheap trick all the time, combined with great acting skills).
In the end I worry more about willingness to absorb contact and fighting spirit to go up against bigger guys, than about actual strength or weight.Not that superior strength wouldn't be an advantage, but a guy, who was always rail thin has already modeled his game around the fact, that he is not strong enough to overpower opponents. So benefits of bulking seem limited to me.
That's why I'm extremely disappointed with WCS.
This whole bulking thing seems extremely weird, when it comes to basketball. Bulking in strength sports? Ok I understand that - but in basketball? Why? Of course every professional athlete will follow some kind of conditioning program. But what use has the gain weight at all costs approach in a sport, which is more about technique than pure force and where the biggest issue is to get through a 82game grind?
With Skal being 20 years old I would think, that his body will change quite a bit over the next years without trying to bulk the weight up.
I would worry about Skals weight, if teams would beat us with back to the basket plays. But honestly the bigger issue are teams beating us from 3 and when defending in face up situations more weight isn't all that needed. In fact I would gladly take back to the basket plays over pick&rolls and 3 pointers. I take guys like Green, Ibaka or "insert average NBA PF here" trying to beat me inside over Curry or Irving or Lillard carving me up from outside.
His weight being an issue while rebounding? Yes maybe, but long shots - long rebounds and we all know even guys like DMC aren't allowed to clear their defender out, when he has good position for the rebound. So for me rebounding is more about tenacity and positioning, than actual strength and weight. At least you can be an average rebounder, without being the strongest and heaviest dude on the floor. Last game we saw Malachi doing something I can envision Skal doing and that's boxing his man out with full force. That's a simple, basic basketball play I see less and less and I simply don't understand why. Even a 6'0 guard can do that. Of course he will get overpowered, but chances are, that the opposing player needs to use so much force to fight through the box out, that he gets called for the foul (Marcus Smart uses this cheap trick all the time, combined with great acting skills
).In the end I worry more about willingness to absorb contact and fighting spirit to go up against bigger guys, than about actual strength or weight.Not that superior strength wouldn't be an advantage, but a guy, who was always rail thin has already modeled his game around the fact, that he is not strong enough to overpower opponents. So benefits of bulking seem limited to me.
That's why I'm extremely disappointed with WCS.
So answer me this, lets say Milsap comes and we make the playoffs, but go out in the first round, then Milsap walks. Just exactly have we accomplished, other than to say hey, we made the playoffs. However some of the young talent we were going to build the future with is gone, along with who we traded them for. Is that a success story? By the way, I believe that Milsap will be 32 in Feburary.
I have no problem going after Milsap as long as we don't empty the bank in doing so. The likelyhood of resigning him is not impossible, but slim, and if we do, it will cost up in the plus 30 mil range to do so. We also have to max out Cux, which is another plus 30 mil a year contract. After subtracting the other contracts we have, it wouldn't leave much for signing additional freeagents. And we wouldn't have a draft pick this year either if we make the playoffs. We'd be left with a team that may or may not make the playoffs, but nothing resembling a championship team.
I have no problem going after Milsap as long as we don't empty the bank in doing so. The likelyhood of resigning him is not impossible, but slim, and if we do, it will cost up in the plus 30 mil range to do so. We also have to max out Cux, which is another plus 30 mil a year contract. After subtracting the other contracts we have, it wouldn't leave much for signing additional freeagents. And we wouldn't have a draft pick this year either if we make the playoffs. We'd be left with a team that may or may not make the playoffs, but nothing resembling a championship team.
Are people incapable of recognizing symbolism. I wasn't comparing skill levels, positions or current abilities, I was comparing where they were drafted. The point being for the clueless, that where a player is drafted doesn't necessarily mean they will have more or less value. Sorry for being rude, but sometimes I get damm tired of explaining something that I think is simple. Plus, I'm in a crabby mood. So I apologize in advance.
Actually, Skal's value around the league is reflected pretty well by where he was drafted 6 months ago. Skal was passed on 27 times, and hasn't done anything to argue for or against it.
A player who hasn't played doesn't have much else to gauge them on. If he was picked 12th he'd have more value. That's pretty simple.
No offense taken, sounds like you just need a nap.
A player who hasn't played doesn't have much else to gauge them on. If he was picked 12th he'd have more value. That's pretty simple.
No offense taken, sounds like you just need a nap.
The point was not to give Skal away in a trade for Milsap that somehow gets twisted into an IT discussion. Teams had 59 chances to draft IT before us and didnt. In the end that meant nothing until IT went out and played the games and made a lot of people look foolish to pass on him, or give him away for peanuts. Perhaps a cautionary tale about throwing away a prospect for what is likely a few months rental of Milsap. Regardless of where a player is picked they still have to live up to expectations. That is all the draft positional value really is in the end. Expectations for someone drafted at pick # whatever. Some go higher than they should have and some lower or not at all and go undrafted.
But I do agree he hasn't done anything yet.
But I do agree he hasn't done anything yet.
OK, I'll try one more time. My post wasn't about how skilled Skal is compared to IT. Got it? The implication was that because he was drafted at 28, he therefore, had less value, and it was OK to throw him in. I used IT as an example, to show that how good you may eventually be, has nothing to do with where you were drafted. Yes, I get that IT was a proven player when he walked out the door, and that Skal isn't. The point is, we don't yet know how good he will be, and assuming that because he was drafted at 28 means he won't be, is not applicable.