Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[bajaden]

Crabbe (Bisn't gods gift to the NBA..
But why would it make sense to compare Afflalos 4th season to Crabbes current season? We currently have the 11 year veteran Afflalo 0n the team and not the younger version with 4 seasons of experience. Afflalo in his 4th season was the better player. Today I would lean towards Allen Crabbe. And we have to keep in mind, that with Crabbe there is still potential to grow, whereas for Afflalo it is going downhill from here.
What really bothers me is, that Crabbe is nothing Ben McLemore couldn't be. A solid but unspectacular NBA SG, not the best ballhandler, not the best decision maker, but a good spot up shooter with some defensive potential. Ben is quicker and way more athletic than Crabbe, but Crabbe keeps his calm more often and doesn't make too many mistakes. Why give up assets to get Crabbe? Why not finally teach Ben how to make the most out of his natural gifts.
I hoped we could sign Crabbe during FA. It would have been a solid addition for now and the future. It would have been the better choice, than an aging Afflalo.
But we decided to not throw the bank after Crabbe. Throwing away WCS only to get Crabbe now, would be worse than overpaying him in FA.

My argument wasn't against acquiring Crabbe, or saying that at the moment he's not better than Afflalo. He probably is better overall than Afflalo right now. Certainly younger! My argument was against what we were going to give up to get him, (Bogdanvoic and Willie) his current salary, and that he's a starting SG and Afflalo isn't. Of course whether you start or not is a subjective decision by the team your on, and the amount of talent they have. Bogdanovic may end up being a very good player, perhaps even a star. Or not. He may just end up being as good as Crabbe, which would mean we have given up Willie for nothing. By the way the only reason I compared Afflalo's fourth season to Crabbe's current one, is that it's Crabbe's fourth season. Just trying my feeble best to be as fair as I can... Especially if it's in my favor.......

 

[Telemachus]

Even when considering their respective ages and not considering the $10+ million difference in salary I'd take Temple over Crabbe every day and twice on Sundays.

I agree. The impact that Temple has on defense is greater than the impact Crabbe has on offense IMO.

 

[bajaden]

Comparing stats head on to Crabbe and Afflalo doesn't do a lot of good when you're ignoring playing style. Afflalo is 31 and cannot be a building block around Cousins going forward. He is already a declining player. Afflalo has always been more of an iso player who doesn't excel off-ball. Crabbe is a 25yearold player who has 4 years left to his name. Crabbe excels as an off-ball player who can play good defense. At this age, Afflalo struggles a bit on that end. Crabbe could actually be a building block to Cousins just purely due to his age alone if you ignore play style and everything else.

I have no clue why we're comparing Afflalo's to Crabbe's 4th year. Afflalo is not the same player he was from 4 years ago. Afflalo and Crabbe play nothing alike either.

You must have misread the initial trade. It was WCS+Afflalo for Crabbe. We wouldn't be giving up on Bogdanovic. If you didn't misread it, who's to say that if Crabbe starts, it means we're giving up on Bogdanovic? There's more than enough room for him to come off the bench and make a gigantic impact for us. Hell, Crabbe has proven that he can play SF too. We could even pair them up if it goes that way.

You missed the entire point of my post. My point was about what we would have to give up in the trade and Crabbe's current salary. Then came the comparison. Not saying that Crabbe isn't a better player right now than Afflalo, just pointing out that at the same point in time, Afflalo was the better player, and that Crabbe isn't that much better than Afflalo right now, at least not at 18 million a year. As far as I'm concerned, were paying Afflalo too much.

The way I look at this team right now, we have one superstar in Cousins, or star if you don't like the word superstar. We have very good third option player in Gay, along with an almost third option player in Collison. The rest of the team is made up of wannabe's, some with experience and some with not nuch. Now in a perfect world, if all those pieces were perfect fits, the team might be a playoff team. Right now, that doesn't look to be the case.

From that perspective I don't think Crabbe would make a significant difference on this team. I see him as a good complimentary player which would be great, if this team had a number two option player to go along with Gay and Cousins. I see Crabbe as the player you kick the ball to when all your other options are covered. I think Richardson, or perhaps even Bogdanovic could become that same player, and at a much cheaper price. I'm starting to think the team should be renamed, The Sacramento Gleaners. We never grow our own crops. We just go around the NBA trying to pick up whats left on the ground. How about we start raising our own.

 

[bajaden]

Crabbe is a good player. Affalo sucks now. Five years ago he was good but we didn't sign him five years ago. The Suns got tired of being jerked around by Bogdanovic so they found another team willing to take him and take on the aggravation, which was us. Until he steps on an NBA Court and scores 20 points in a game, I am not excited about him. If you can get Crabbe you trade anyone on this roster except Cousins to get him. I honestly don't think the Blazers would trade him for anything we have to offer. You all overvalue WCS value.

Sooo, Bogdanovic would have to score 20 pts a game before you would get excited about him. Really? Pretty high standard to start out with me thinks.. So, you think that if we acquired Crabbe, that he would be the second best player on the team after Cousins? Better then Gay? Better than Collison? Really?

 

[Suicide King]

If any move is to be made,I think the first order of business should be to deal with Rudy. He is a talented player no doubt. He also has made it clear he will not pick up his option. He does not fit any foreseeable timeline of contention for us, with Cousins or without. Then depending on who/what we get in return you go from there. Step by step. We have pieces under contract already to stay a middling team.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'd blow it up now after seeing this first stretch. Problem is I don't know if our GM/Coach will look for the long term viability over winning games now or admitting defeat like Vlade would do for that sixers trade

 

[Suicide King]

I'd blow it up now after seeing this first stretch. Problem is I don't know if our GM/Coach will look for the long term viability over winning games now or admitting defeat like Vlade would do for that sixers trade

Blowing the team up now is like sinking a ship to get rid of the rats.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Blowing the team up now is like sinking a ship to get rid of the rats.

Yes, but with the insurance payout, you might even get a ship!

 

[KingsFan80]

Sooo, Bogdanovic would have to score 20 pts a game before you would get excited about him. Really? Pretty high standard to start out with me thinks.. So, you think that if we acquired Crabbe, that he would be the second best player on the team after Cousins? Better then Gay? Better than Collison? Really?

Crabbe would be the 3rd best player on our team behind Cousins and Gay. and Bogdanovic is going to be 25 years old, at that age we cannot afford another 5 point a game bench player

 

[KingsFan80]

I think you are greatly over valuing Crabbe as a player.

He isn't being asked to be a star player on the Blazers. Typically he doesn't even get enough minutes. He is a role player who is shooting close to 40% from three point range. If he joined the Kings he would be asked to be a star player along with Cousins and Gay. Sorry I am just looking for something to look forward to and a young up and coming SG stands out over a washed up SG and a role player like Temple

 

[bajaden]

Crabbe would be the 3rd best player on our team behind Cousins and Gay. and Bogdanovic is going to be 25 years old, at that age we cannot afford another 5 point a game bench player

With the emphasis on the word COULD! My bet is that you'll be one of the first on the bandwagon to trade Crabbe for the next perseived savior if he doesn't turn out the way you expect. My last word on this subject is that I respectfully disagree with you. Neither of us will change the other's mind, so no point in continuing.

 

[Telemachus]

Crabbe would be the 3rd best player on our team behind Cousins and Gay. and Bogdanovic is going to be 25 years old, at that age we cannot afford another 5 point a game bench player

Again, you are over-rating Crabbe. He is a spot up shooter. He is an average ball handler and passer, and a poor rebounder and defender. He is playing more minutes a game than Afflalo (who hasn't played great) and putting similar numbers. If BMac was playing the same minutes as Crabbe, his numbers would be better.

I also like how you point out that Bogdanovic will be 25 next year, when he is the same age as Crabbe. BTW, Bogdanovic can shoot both off the dribble and as a spot up shooter. He is also a better ball-handler and passer IMO. I don't know about his defense, but he can't be worse than Crabbe.

 

[dude12]

Again, you are over-rating Crabbe. He is a spot up shooter. He is an average ball handler and passer, and a poor rebounder and defender. He is playing more minutes a game than Afflalo (who hasn't played great) and putting similar numbers. If BMac was playing the same minutes as Crabbe, his numbers would be better.

I also like how you point out that Bogdanovic will be 25 next year, when he is the same age as Crabbe. BTW, Bogdanovic can shoot both off the dribble and as a spot up shooter. He is also a better ball-handler and passer IMO. I don't know about his defense, but he can't be worse than Crabbe.

If we acquired Crabbe, my guess is before long, people would be pissed at the acquisition.

 

[KingsFan80]

Again, you are over-rating Crabbe. He is a spot up shooter. He is an average ball handler and passer, and a poor rebounder and defender. He is playing more minutes a game than Afflalo (who hasn't played great) and putting similar numbers. If BMac was playing the same minutes as Crabbe, his numbers would be better.

I also like how you point out that Bogdanovic will be 25 next year, when he is the same age as Crabbe. BTW, Bogdanovic can shoot both off the dribble and as a spot up shooter. He is also a better ball-handler and passer IMO. I don't know about his defense, but he can't be worse than Crabbe.

Bogdanovic has never played in the NBA. you cannot compare him to Crabbe until he does, if he does.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

LeBron James has never played in the NBA. you cannot compare him to Kerry Kittles until he does, if he does.

Just sent your post 14 years into the past.

 

[KingMilz]

With Nerlans Noel making his way back soon (currently working with the D-League team) I would really look hard and try get a deal going for him or RaShaun Holmes who would be a terrific fit @PF for us if given a chance.

 

[dude12]

December 15 is the day we see movement I believe.

 

[KingsFan80]

Just sent your post 14 years into the past.

You are comparing Bogdanovic to LeBron James lol. Geeeez

 

[Telemachus]

Bogdanovic has never played in the NBA. you cannot compare him to Crabbe until he does, if he does.

Ben Simmons has never played in the NBA, but I know that he will be better than Crabbe. I could name quite a few players currently in college that I feel the same about.

Unlike those players, we actually have evidence of how Bogdanovic stacks up against NBA talent. He has more than held his own when going up against NBA players. Besides, I don't have to see a player play in the NBA to see what his skills are and where they are lacking. Now if you are asking if he will be a star? Only time will tell. However, I have little doubt that he will be a quality starter in the NBA. He is too skilled a player for me to think he will fail.

 

[KingsFan80]

Ben Simmons has never played in the NBA, but I know that he will be better than Crabbe. I could name quite a few players currently in college that I feel the same about.

Unlike those players, we actually have evidence of how Bogdanovic stacks up against NBA talent. He has more than held his own when going up against NBA players. Besides, I don't have to see a player play in the NBA to see what his skills are and where they are lacking. Now if you are asking if he will be a star? Only time will tell. However, I have little doubt that he will be a quality starter in the NBA. He is too skilled a player for me to think he will fail.

Come on man, Ben Simmons compared to Bogdanovic? Really? Ben Simmons is a 19 year old first pick of the draft with tons of potential. Bogdanovic is 25 years old, playing overseas, never participated in an NBA practice. There is no 100% percent guarantee he will ever play in the NBA anyway, he could stay overseas his whole career. I would happily take any bet that Crabbe will be better than Bodganovic next year and the two years to follow.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You are comparing Bogdanovic to LeBron James lol. Geeeez

The point went right over your head, didn't it?

 

[KingsFan80]

The point went right over your head, didn't it?

I respect you as a poster and i expect the same, please don't talk down to me because you are a MOD..I get your point, but use a better example. Saying LeBron hasn't played a game in the league yet, and he might never? But cannot compare him to Kerry Kittles? Did LeBron play overseas when he was 25? Was there ever any question he might never play in the NBA?

 

[twslam07]

I respect you as a poster and i expect the same, please don't talk down to me because you are a MOD..I get your point, but use a better example. Saying LeBron hasn't played a game in the league yet, and he might never? But cannot compare him to Kerry Kittles? Did LeBron play overseas when he was 25? Was there ever any question he might never play in the NBA?

Why are you knocking a guy for playing & developing overseas? What's wrong with being 25 & ready to contribute right away? I really don't know where all this resentment comes from in regards to Bogdanovic...

 

[KingsFan80]

Why are you knocking a guy for playing & developing overseas? What's wrong with being 25 & ready to contribute right away? I really don't know where all this resentment comes from in regards to Bogdanovic...

I am not, he just isn't in the same situation as LeBron James was when Kerry Kittles played. If Bogdanvic comes over to play and If he is a good player i would love to have him on the Kings. I don't care how old he is, but hopefully he produces right away. As I have said before, I cannot get excited about a player who isn't on the team right now or even in the USA.

 

[twslam07]

I am not, he just isn't in the same situation as LeBron James was when Kerry Kittles played. If Bogdanvic comes over to play and If he is a good player i would love to have him on the Kings. I don't care how old he is, but hopefully he produces right away.

Wow that LeBron post really did go right over your head. I'd suggest reading it a few more times.
Bogdanovic's Measurables
Height w/o Shoes: 6'5"
Weight w/ Shoes: 6'6"
Wingspan: 6'11"
Standing Reach: 8'8.5"
Max Vert: 36"
Weight: 200 lbs

Per36 last season: 54% TS% / 41% FG% / 38% 3PT% / 80% FT% / 15.1 PPG / 4.3 RPG / 3.9 APG / 1.4 SPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.0 TOPG

That's a healthy stat line. Now I'm not saying he's going to be an all star, but I see him with a ceiling of a good sixth man scorer in this league (in a Ginobli mold) who is average defensively. His floor is probably 7th-9th man in your rotation who can space the floor (38% 3s), play average defense, and make some smart, nifty passes (2.0 Ast/TO ratio). I don't think anyone here is claiming he will be the next LeBron, but he's definitely an asset. And an asset that can contribute to this team.

As I have said before, I cannot get excited about a player who isn't on the team right now or even in the USA.

This is a really, really dumb statement. Obviously you can get excited for whoever you want, but this statement is not logical. Why can't we be excited for OUR player? He is OUR player. It didn't make sense for him to come over this year because...

1. He was still under contract with his old team and he would have to pay a decent amount of money to get out of that contract without the help of the Kings
2. If he waits a year, he no longer has to sign on the rookie scale. So instead of making $1.5 mil for the next 4 years, he could be making $5-$8 mil a year.

I just don't understand how someone can not be excited for a player coming over who has a decent shot at being a good contributor for this team. If you haven't noticed, we need all the help we can get, and that is what Bogdanovic will do. He will help. So instead of acting like he doesn't exist, you can at least acknowledge that he wasn't just some worthless throw-in to the trade we made this summer. He was a good piece to acquire who has a chance to help this team win.

When its all said and done, he may turn out to be better than Papagiannis, Richardson, Labissiere, & even Chriss. Knowing that is a possibility, why would one not be excited?

 

[KingsFan80]

Wow that LeBron post really did go right over your head. I'd suggest reading it a few more times.
Bogdanovic's Measurables
Height w/o Shoes: 6'5"
Weight w/ Shoes: 6'6"
Wingspan: 6'11"
Standing Reach: 8'8.5"
Max Vert: 36"
Weight: 200 lbs

Per36 last season: 54% TS% / 41% FG% / 38% 3PT% / 80% FT% / 15.1 PPG / 4.3 RPG / 3.9 APG / 1.4 SPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.0 TOPG

That's a healthy stat line. Now I'm not saying he's going to be an all star, but I see him with a ceiling of a good sixth man scorer in this league (in a Ginobli mold) who is average defensively. His floor is probably 7th-9th man in your rotation who can space the floor (38% 3s), play average defense, and make some smart, nifty passes (2.0 Ast/TO ratio). I don't think anyone here is claiming he will be the next LeBron, but he's definitely an asset. And an asset that can contribute to this team.



This is a really, really dumb statement. Obviously you can get excited for whoever you want, but this statement is not logical. Why can't we be excited for OUR player? He is OUR player. It didn't make sense for him to come over this year because...

1. He was still under contract with his old team and he would have to pay a decent amount of money to get out of that contract without the help of the Kings
2. If he waits a year, he no longer has to sign on the rookie scale. So instead of making $1.5 mil for the next 4 years, he could be making $5-$8 mil a year.

I just don't understand how someone can not be excited for a player coming over who has a decent shot at being a good contributor for this team. If you haven't noticed, we need all the help we can get, and that is what Bogdanovic will do. He will help. So instead of acting like he doesn't exist, you can at least acknowledge that he wasn't just some worthless throw-in to the trade we made this summer. He was a good piece to acquire who has a chance to help this team win.

When its all said and done, he may turn out to be better than Papagiannis, Richardson, Labissiere, & even Chriss. Knowing that is a possibility, why would one not be excited?

It didnt go over my head. That guy was being sarcastic by saying you cannot compare LeBron, who 14 years ago wasn't in the league, to Kerry Kittles because Kittles was already in the league. LeBron was a very rare player who at the time everyone knew he was going to be a star.

If you want a fair comparison then say you cannot compare D'Aaron Fox, who could be good or not good next year in his Rookie Season, to Elfrid Payton, an average PG. That would be a better statement because Fox could be around the same and maybe better than Payton. I would be more excited if we had landed Brandon Knight or Bledsoe in the trade. Nobody has a clue how Bodganovic is going to do with a shift from overseas basketball to the NBA. Could he be good? Sure but he could also be really bad. Since you mentioned him, not me, Chriss has ten times more upside. A young 19 year old PF from the Sacramento area, who is already starting for the Suns. I would take that in a heartbeat over Papa, Skal, and Bogdanovic and I would guarantee the Suns would too

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It didnt go over my head. That guy was being sarcastic by saying you cannot compare LeBron, who 14 years ago wasn't in the league, to Kerry Kittles because Kittles was already in the league.

Exactly. Bogdanovic is by some reports is the best player in Europe, and by most reports intends to come over next year. Yet you continue to insist that his value is far lower than Allen Crabbe, a role player who is being paid like a star, simply because Bogdanovic (who is the same age as Crabbe) hasn't yet played in the NBA. It's as if, to you, success in Europe is a non-indicator. But, of course, success in Europe is quite a good indicator (as is, for another example, very high level play in high school). I felt that some hyperbole was in order to drive the point home.

 

[KingsFan80]

Exactly. Bogdanovic is by some reports is the best player in Europe, and by most reports intends to come over next year. Yet you continue to insist that his value is far lower than Allen Crabbe, a role player who is being paid like a star, simply because Bogdanovic (who is the same age as Crabbe) hasn't yet played in the NBA. It's as if, to you, success in Europe is a non-indicator. But, of course, success in Europe is quite a good indicator (as is, for another example, very high level play in high school). I felt that some hyperbole was in order to drive the point home.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I would rather have someone already in the league as we know what we are getting. I would take Crabbe and not think twice about it.

 

[twslam07]

It didnt go over my head. That guy was being sarcastic by saying you cannot compare LeBron, who 14 years ago wasn't in the league, to Kerry Kittles because Kittles was already in the league. LeBron was a very rare player who at the time everyone knew he was going to be a star.

If you want a fair comparison then say you cannot compare D'Aaron Fox, who could be good or not good next year in his Rookie Season, to Elfrid Payton, an average PG. That would be a better statement because Fox could be around the same and maybe better than Payton. I would be more excited if we had landed Brandon Knight or Bledsoe in the trade. Nobody has a clue how Bodganovic is going to do with a shift from overseas basketball to the NBA. Could he be good? Sure but he could also be really bad. Since you mentioned him, not me, Chriss has ten times more upside. A young 19 year old PF from the Sacramento area, who is already starting for the Suns. I would take that in a heartbeat over Papa, Skal, and Bogdanovic and I would guarantee the Suns would too

It's funny how you say nobody has a clue how Bogdanovic is going to do but you seem so confident in how Chriss will turn out. It goes both ways. I'd suggest approaching both situations similarly rather than showing your inherent bias against one specific player.

Is starting for the Suns supposed to impress me or really anyone for that matter? Players who shouldn't be starting (if they want to field a competitive team) get starts all the time in the NBA. The Suns have the 2nd to worst record in the western conference this year. They are wanting to build & develop their youth where as we're trying to be competitive as possible this year to try and persuade Cousins to stay. Chriss would not start on our team, and he probably wouldn't even be in our rotation just by watching his play thus far. He's playing like a rookie. That's not a knock since he is a rookie, but he's not helping any team this year whether that's on the Kings or Suns.

In fact, Chriss has been god awful this year. I'm curious to think if suns fans are starting to get a little worried about their lotto pick (they shouldn't because he's a project, but I'd be curious to know).

0.496 TS% (Horrible)
0.419 Ast/TO ratio (Horrible)
-3.17 RPM (89th among PFs & 319th in the league = Horrible)
-4.3 On/Off (Horrible)

As much as you like to hype this guy up, you would think he would be winning rookie of the month awards left and right. The fact of the matter is that Chriss has been awful for his team this year. That doesn't mean he won't develop and amount to something someday, but in your own words, "nobody has a clue." So instead of beating the "Chriss is great/Bogdanovic who?" drum, how about you find some middle ground?

EDIT: I also find it funny that you would rather have had Knight in the trade considering it's been known for a few seasons now that Knight is fools gold and contributes to his team losing.

RAPM
-1.14 ('15-'16)

RPM
-4.26 ('16-'17)
-2.04 ('15-'16)
-2.36 ('14-'15)
-3.18 ('13-'14)

On/Off
-17.1 ('16-'17)
+1.7 ('15-'16)
-5.7 (MIL '14-'15)
-1.8 (PHO '14-'15)
-1.4 ('13-'14)

You wanted us to pick up a losing player, on a big long term contract rather than take a chance on some draft picks? Yikes! I'm glad you're not making these decisions.

In regards to Bledsoe, how do you know we didn't try and get him? He could have been our main target, but perhaps Phoenix was unwilling to move him. This isn't NBA 2K. It takes two to tango.

 

[twslam07]

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I would rather have someone already in the league as we know what we are getting. I would take Crabbe and not think twice about it.

But you can't "take" Crabbe. He has to agree to come here. Again, this isn't NBA 2K.