Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[bajaden]

I actually really like this trade.


I think it comes down to how much impact you think Bogdanovic will actually have on the Kings in his 1st year. When next season rolls around, Crabbe and Bogdanovic will both be 25. However, only Crabbe is the proven NBA player. Do you see Bogdanovic as our franchise SG?

Crabbe helps us this year too though. He gives us the much much needed 3pt shooting we lack. He can also play a little bit at SF. We saw the Blazers go with Lillard-McCollum-Crabbe a lot last season. He could replace Rudy if Vlade decides to trade him.

Crabbe is a starting SG. Afflalo is not. If all we're giving up is Afflalo+WCS why not? Crabbe has a hefty contract, but he'd be the best SG on our roster since the Bayou Bomber. He could also potentially be a piece for us to build around Cousins.

My god man, when did Crabbe become gods gift to the NBA. First, we have no way of knowing how good or bad Bogdanovic will be. I can speculate that he'll be a star, and you can speculate that he'll be a bum. So just for the record, I'm going to speculate that he's going to be better than Crabbe. On what am I basing that? Same thing your basing if on that he won't be. How's that for a straw dog?

Crabbe career stats: 20:37 mpg - 7.2 ppg - 44.4% fgp - 38.2% 3pp - 2.7 rpg
Afflalo career stats: 26:36 mpg - 11.5 ppg - 45.1% fgp - 38.3% 3pp - 3.0 rpg

You don't like those, lets go with Crabbe's current, or fourth year and Afflalo's fourth year.

Crabbe: 27:49 mpg - 8.9 ppg - 42.5% fgp - 36.1% 3pp - 2.7 rpg - 1.4 apg
Afflalo: 33:41 mpg - 12.6 ppg - 49.8% fgp - 42.3% 3pp - 3.6 rpg - 2.4 apg

Now what is it in these stats that leaps out at you, that makes Crabbe starting material, and not Afflalo. I could make an argument that neither of them should be starters in the NBA, but I certainly wouldn't give Crabbe the edge in anything other than youth. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have Crabbe on the team, but I'am saying I'm not about to give up both Bogdanovic and Willie for him. It's because of those kind of deals that this team is in the situation it's in. Were always trying to catch lightning in a bottle and were selling our soul in the process.

 

[funkykingston]

Excellent thought provoking post. Asks more questions than it answers, but that's the result of where we are right now. I think the major question that the Kings organization has to ask itself, and to be fair, maybe they have and haven't told us, is are we still trying to do a quick fix, or are we looking at a long term fix? I realize that if you asked most of the fans, the answer would be we want to win now, because we've already been bad for the legally required amount of time. If only it worked like that.

It's been my opinion that the Kings, regardless of who has been in charge, have been trying to throw together some combination of players that will magically become contenders. The result has been a revolving door with players coming and going followed closely by head coaches and the occasional GM. So here we are now with nothing to show for it, and still facing the same decisions we were facing 9 or 10 years ago. The only common denominator has been Cousins, and I don't say that in order to place blame. Just stating facts.

So, right here, right now, we do have one major NBA star. Cousins! The question is, how do we acquire another one? Well you can trade for one, which might be the most unlikely, because you usually have to give up one to get one, or give up so many asset's, that if it doesn't work out, your future is screwed. But more on that later. Another way is through free agency. All you need is cap space, which we will have this next off season, and the ability to attract a big star. Does anyone want to bet on that scenario? But, it's possible.. Lastly, you draft one. Hey, that's how we got Cousins, so it can work. But, your planting a seed, and seeds take time to grow, and in the meantime, we've already wasted part of Cousins prime.

That brings us full circle to whether we continue to build the team around Cousins? Let me think...... OK, I'd say yes, because getting that first star player is very difficult, and we already have one. That's if Cousins is willing to stay the course. So how do we speed up the process? The only way is to trade for another possible star, similar to how we got Webber. Find a very talented player that wants to move on from a team that's fed up with the player. I know everyone is looking at Wall. There is after all, the Cousins connection.

I'd rather look at his running mate, Beal. It's rumored that the Wiz would rather trade Beal, and I think Beal would look pretty good in a Kings uniform. Beal is capable of carrying a team on his back on occasion. Of course Beal would make some combination of McLemore, Afflalo, Temple, Bogdanovic expendable, and maybe included in the deal. I'm not sure what the Wiz would want in return, but hey, other than Cousins, just about everyone else on the team is expendable. If we were able to acquire Beal, maybe that could sway Gay to re-sign, and if that were possible, maybe the Kings would look more attractive to free agents next off season.

Of course that's a lot of if's and maybe's. But that's where we are right now, were living in a land of if's and maybe's. The bottom line is, the Kings have to decide what their plan is, and hopefully it's a different plan than we've had for the last 10 years.

Can a quick rebuild happen that gets the Kings from outhouse to penthouse in a season or two? Sure. We can go back to the summer of 1998 to see how it happened that time around.

The biggest key was obviously trading Richmond for Webber. For the then Bullets that trade broke several NBA axioms - they traded small for big and young for old. But that's where Webber's reputation was at that point. Injuries, issues with coaches (hi Nellie!) and off the court trouble soured Washington on CWebb to where they were just ready to part ways.

And of course Jason Williams was drafted 7th. He wasn't the best pick (Dirk & Pierce went 9 & 10 and even Rashard Lewis made an all-star game while JWill never did) but was a good one at that point of the draft and one that fit very well with Webber. Jerome James was taken in the 2nd round.

The team already had Abdul-Wahad, Funderburke and Corliss as previous draft picks and Peja was a pick from two drafts back that decided to come to the NBA that season.

Free agency yielded not just Vlade Divac - still the best FA signing of the Sacramento era IMO, but also Vernon Maxwell, Scot Pollard and Jon Barry along with Oliver Miller.

Rick Adelman came onboard as coach and the Kings started their ascent, making the playoffs in the lockout shortened 1999 season and then growing as Corliss became Christie, Williams became Bibby and other gradual improvements were made.

But it really was that 1998 offseason that changed everything.

Now, the Kings don't have an aging star like they did in Mitch. To trade Cousins would mean a total teardown and rebuild unless he was dealt for another potential franchise cornerstone but I'm not sure who that would be. And they don't need a new coach. Joerger may not be Adelman but I have faith that he's a keeper. Is Bogdanovic the next Peja? Very doubtful, especially given the age he'll be coming over at.


So we can't use that turnaround as an actual blueprint but we can look at the basic principles involved.

One is what I've been harping on - if the Kings keep their pick, they need a homerun this year. Drafting a bust or a deep rotation player is going to keep them on the treadmill of mediocrity.

The second is that they need a 2nd or 3rd tier free agent signing who will make a difference. That's what Vlade was. He wasn't the best player available but he was willing to sign with the Kings and he made a huge impact without being a star. Temple and Barnes have been solid but they aren't at that level. If Rudy leaves and there's cap room, they need one guy who can fill a major hole and be a real contributor next to Boogie. And then ideally they need more solid role players with whatever money is left.

Three is that they need to target trades where they are gambling on a player. A guy coming off injury or having a down year or a locker room issue/off the court issue and/or somebody who is underperforming compared to their contract. The Kings did this with Rudy. He was horribly inefficient in Toronto and his deal seemed like an albatross so they got him for very little. And the last two years they've nabbed damaged goods PGs in Rondo and Lawson. I had apprehension about all three of those players joining the Kings but I definitely understood the logic. The Kings have to take risks if they want to potentially improve their talent pool.

Those particular risks haven't dramatically improved the team but they haven't really hurt either.

The fourth thing is that they need development from the young guys they do have. Cauley-Stein needs to get his head straight and make a leap, Skal needs to show he deserves playing time, Richardson needs to show he can be a contributor and Papagiannis just needs to show he belongs in the NBA - that would be a good enough goal for him for now.

One good trading deadline and offseason could reshape things dramatically to the point where after that it's just about tweaking things. The question is whether this front office group can make the right moves.

 

[funkykingston]

Even as a Cal alum I can't get on board with the Crabbe hype.

He's an $18 million a year roleplayer who is pretty one dimensional as a shooter (he has defensive potential but he's a poor defender right now) and is struggling in that one dimension right now.

In the here and now Temple is a much better defender and passer while shooting almost the exact same percentages and going forward I think Richardson can give what Crabbe provides but for a much lower price tag.

 

[CelticsFan]

I'd rather look at his running mate, Beal. It's rumored that the Wiz would rather trade Beal, and I think Beal would look pretty good in a Kings uniform. Beal is capable of carrying a team on his back on occasion. Of course Beal would make some combination of McLemore, Afflalo, Temple, Bogdanovic expendable, and maybe included in the deal. I'm not sure what the Wiz would want in return, but hey, other than Cousins, just about everyone else on the team is expendable. If we were able to acquire Beal, maybe that could sway Gay to re-sign, and if that were possible, maybe the Kings would look more attractive to free agents next off season.

Ok everyone gather around, I have an announcement to make.

THE KINGS HAVE NO REAL ASSETS TO TRADE OUTSIDE OF COUSINS

Beal is a 23 years old, less then 2 months older then WCS. What could the Kings possibly ever offer WAS for Beal? Beal is already an established young and upcoming NBA player. Does anyone on this board think a mix match of role players would get WAS interested in Beal or Wall? Maybe a couple of late 2016 1st round picks that can't even find time on this team? Take a step back, do you think other teams may be able to top whatever the Kings could offer if Beal ever shook loose?

Not trying to be a downer but seems like a lot of people on this board don't view this team realistically. Trade Cousins, keep Cousins. Yes there are arguments to be made on each side but you can't convince me the Kings have enough to trade for a real impact player (outside of moving Cousins).

 

[hrdboild]

I already posted it in the other thread but I wanted to repeat it here because it seems to fit better. If we are indeed going to keep the pick like you said, I wonder whether we could make the pick for Phoenix and then package it with Willie for Bledsoe. This seems like a fair deal for both sides. We get our #2 option to pair with Cuz while Phoenix can go into rebuild mode and can build around Booker, their and our first round pick to replace Bledsoe and Warren/Chriss/Bender/Willie. Actually, I asked Phoenix fans on realgm what they think of a Bledsoe deal and they seem to be open to it if it involes a top ten pick and another asset. On a recent podcast, NBA analysts Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux also indicated that Bledsoe is worth a lottery pick + a young prospect.
Interestingly, assuming a cap of 103 mil and that we move on from Afflalo, Tolliver and Mclemore we could keep the cap hold of Gay, Collison and Casspi on the book and still have 5-7 to mil to sign Bogdanovic. So potentially we could look at a roster of:
PG: Bledsoe / Collison. SG: Temple / Bogdanovic. SF: Gay. PF: Barnes / Casspi. C: Cousins / Koufos + the rooks.

As Hoovtrain already said, no one knows if this team would be successfull but it sounds a lot better than what we have right now.

I really like Bledsoe but he looks like a core piece for Phoenix right now so I don't know why they would trade him. He's signed for two more years after this for practically nothing considering the way contracts for star players are going up and he's only 26. Brandon Knight is the PG they're likely to trade and I don't think he's worth giving up a lottery pick for. If fans are already willing to give up Bledsoe (because of injury concerns I guess?) that doesn't necessarily mean the team will be. If you ask the right group of Kings fans, we're willing to give up Cousins for very little too. If he is obtainable though, he'd be an excellent target for us because he's definitely a second star and he fills our PG void as well.

 

[funkykingston]

I really like Bledsoe but he looks like a core piece for Phoenix right now so I don't know why they would trade him. He's signed for two more years after this for practically nothing considering the way contracts for star players are going up and he's only 26. Brandon Knight is the PG they're likely to trade and I don't think he's worth giving up a lottery pick for. If fans are already willing to give up Bledsoe (because of injury concerns I guess?) that doesn't necessarily mean the team will be. If you ask the right group of Kings fans, we're willing to give up Cousins for very little too. If he is obtainable though, he'd be an excellent target for us because he's definitely a second star and he fills our PG void as well.

Phoenix is one of the few teams that Rudy makes some sense for. They need an upgrade at small forward but he'd also be a pretty ideal mentor for Chriss. As a scorer Gay is a decent compliment to Booker and the Suns don't have bigs (other than Len) clogging up the paint so Rudy could post up smaller SFs.

Would Phoenix have any interest in paying to re-sign Gay? I don't know. But a potential half season rental isn't nearly worth Knight so it's doubtful. But it would balance the Suns out a bit.

 

[funkykingston]

Ok everyone gather around, I have an announcement to make.

THE KINGS HAVE NO REAL ASSETS TO TRADE OUTSIDE OF COUSINS

Beal is a 23 years old, less then 2 months older then WCS. What could the Kings possibly ever offer WAS for Beal? Beal is already an established young and upcoming NBA player. Does anyone on this board think a mix match of role players would get WAS interested in Beal or Wall? Maybe a couple of late 2016 1st round picks that can't even find time on this team? Take a step back, do you think other teams may be able to top whatever the Kings could offer if Beal ever shook loose?

Not trying to be a downer but seems like a lot of people on this board don't view this team unrealistically. Trade Cousins, keep Cousins. Yes there are arguments to be made on each side but you can't convince me the Kings have enough to trade for a real impact player (outside of moving Cousins).

Correction. The Kings have no high value assets to trade. Landing a borderline all-star is almost certainly out of the question unless there's some real issues surrounding a guy.

But they have trade chips. The focus just needs to be on the types of trades Petrie used to specialize in. Small deals where the Kings come out slightly ahead in terms of talent and/or fit.

I can't expect a Big Nasty for Doug trade but even that deal was viewed as very minor at the time.

 

[hrdboild]

Ok everyone gather around, I have an announcement to make.

THE KINGS HAVE NO REAL ASSETS TO TRADE OUTSIDE OF COUSINS

Beal is a 23 years old, less then 2 months older then WCS. What could the Kings possibly ever offer WAS for Beal? Beal is already an established young and upcoming NBA player. Does anyone on this board think a mix match of role players would get WAS interested in Beal or Wall? Maybe a couple of late 2016 1st round picks that can't even find time on this team? Take a step back, do you think other teams may be able to top whatever the Kings could offer if Beal ever shook loose?

Not trying to be a downer but seems like a lot of people on this board don't view this team unrealistically. Trade Cousins, keep Cousins. Yes there are arguments to be made on each side but you can't convince me the Kings have enough to trade for a real impact player (outside of moving Cousins).

An impact player who is already having an impact, no. The trade assets we do have are veteran filler for a playoff team and no playoff team is going to give up an impact player to add veteran depth, that would be counter-productive. But we can try to snipe a future impact player who isn't having an impact yet, for whatever reason. Rudy Gay is older than Serge Ibaka but he has a similar level of impact on team success -- both are basically solid third options who are consistently productive at what they do well. OKC managed to get Oladipo out of Orlando (plus the #11 pick and Ilyasova) for just one year of Ibaka. Why? Because they had a bunch of young players they couldn't quite fit together and they were targeting interior defense as a need. Also they undervalued their own assets and Ibaka is still young enough that they would consider him a core piece. For our situation, we need to be looking at playoff teams or borderline playoff teams who are weak at SF and SG or need quality minutes at PG. We're unlikely to get an established star for any combination of Rudy, Ben, Darren, Willie, or Kosta but an undervalued young player who isn't getting minutes on their current team? Sure. Happens all the time. Most of those guys don't actually pan out, but it's not random chance. It's calculated risk and you can minimize the actual risk if you trust your scouts.

This shouldn't seem unusual to you, btw. Isaiah Thomas fits the definition of an impact player who wasn't having a big impact yet and his current team (Phoenix at the time) clearly undervalued his potential. Boston traded a bench veteran (Marcus Thornton) and a low first round pick (which became Skal Labissiere, actually) for IT and he's since become an All-Star for them. We can trade one of our vets for the equivalent of a #28 pick and then package that pick with another veteran to approximate the Isaiah Thomas trade if an opportunity arises. The real trick of course is knowing which players to target and if there's any reason for pessimism about the future of this team, that's it. You really have to believe Vlade and co can identify potential young stars that other teams are undervaluing. Danny Ainge has been able to do it consistently which is why Boston is successful. We still don't know about Vlade since he's mostly targeted veterans so far.

 

[Joshoua]

If we trade for anyone on the Blazers it should be Turner. He can handle the ball and create, something we desperately lack. He could start at 3 once Rudy is gone and we slide Bogdan in at the 2.

My god trade for Turner that guy is ass and he's getting paid. Hell no

 

[CelticsFan]

Correction. The Kings have no high value assets to trade. Landing a borderline all-star is almost certainly out of the question unless there's some real issues surrounding a guy.

But they have trade chips. The focus just needs to be on the types of trades Petrie used to specialize in. Small deals where the Kings come out slightly ahead in terms of talent and/or fit.

I can't expect a Big Nasty for Doug trade but even that deal was viewed as very minor at the time.

Yes they have some trade chips to get minor players. Maybe they get lucky and land a young talent that hasn't blossomed yet but to think they can get an established player is foolish

 

[pshn80]

Some observations.

I don't think we need an all-star. We have one one and Rudy is a minor step down from one. That's enough.

We need talent not all- stars.

A coaching action that I believe is called for is to pick a starter to concentrate on 3-pt shooting. I would first pick Afflalo. If he tries two 3 pointers a game now, have him take a least 4 and better yet 6 whether he makes them or not.
In other words, keep shooting them. Secondarily, try it with the second team to a limited extent - say Temple. The objective would be to find and encourage present team members to be a better 3-put asset. Cost- let them keep shooting through their misses. Right now I would guess our most frequent 3-put shooters are Cuz, Collison, Gay and Barnes none of whom shoots many of them. The rest might take one or two at the most. Let's have game try outs. There are other implications in getting the team to try this for a while which you can quickly figure out.

Trades take time, are hard to do, often expensive in talent and value, and require a willing partner. Let's exercise the guys we have while we are waiting.

 

[bajaden]

Yes they have some trade chips to get minor players. Maybe they get lucky and land a young talent that hasn't blossomed yet but to think they can get an established player is foolish

I agree on the asset issue. Actually, we do have some tradeable assets, problem is, all of them are in the last year of their contracts. I used Beal as an example, but didn't seriously think it would happen. However, no one thought we could have obtained Webber when we made that trade, so you never know for sure. I still think Gay can bring us something in return, and in my opinion, we need to trade him or we'll get nothing for him. He's in the last year of his contract, but the team that acquires him will hold his rights, and will be able to offer him more than any other team in the NBA. Just a matter of finding the right trading partner.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ok everyone gather around, I have an announcement to make.

THE KINGS HAVE NO REAL ASSETS TO TRADE OUTSIDE OF COUSINS

Beal is a 23 years old, less then 2 months older then WCS. What could the Kings possibly ever offer WAS for Beal? Beal is already an established young and upcoming NBA player. Does anyone on this board think a mix match of role players would get WAS interested in Beal or Wall? Maybe a couple of late 2016 1st round picks that can't even find time on this team? Take a step back, do you think other teams may be able to top whatever the Kings could offer if Beal ever shook loose?

Not trying to be a downer but seems like a lot of people on this board don't view this team unrealistically. Trade Cousins, keep Cousins. Yes there are arguments to be made on each side but you can't convince me the Kings have enough to trade for a real impact player (outside of moving Cousins).

What did you trade to get Isaiah Thomas?

I'll answer that: Marcus Thornton and CLEVELAND'S 2016 first rounder. You made this trade after Bron was back with Cleveland too, so there was almost no chance it was going to be anything but what it was: the #28 pick in the draft. Ironically we just used that same pick to take Skal, but that's hardly the point. The point is that your leading scorer was acquired for Marcus Thornton and what was practically a 2nd round pick.

Meanwhile we acquired Rudy Gay for Chuck Hayes (out of league), John Salmons (out of league), Greivis Vasquez (basically out of league) and Patrick Patterson.


All it takes is one opposing team to make a mistake and you can win trades in significant ways. Not always, but the window is always open with devalued assets. The question for us to a certain degree is are we prepared to go all in? With 5 indifferent young players, and numerous expiring and near expiring deals, we are actually well positioned to take on a contract from a collapsing team looking to shed contracts and start over, but are we willing to do that when we appear to be holding open the door to that same tactic ourselves?

 

[biltalent]

I really like Bledsoe but he looks like a core piece for Phoenix right now so I don't know why they would trade him. He's signed for two more years after this for practically nothing considering the way contracts for star players are going up and he's only 26. Brandon Knight is the PG they're likely to trade and I don't think he's worth giving up a lottery pick for. If fans are already willing to give up Bledsoe (because of injury concerns I guess?) that doesn't necessarily mean the team will be. If you ask the right group of Kings fans, we're willing to give up Cousins for very little too. If he is obtainable though, he'd be an excellent target for us because he's definitely a second star and he fills our PG void as well.

You are definitely right. But if there is just the slightest chance I make that call.
Edit: As to why fans are critical: They don't think he will lead them anywhere as they are sceptical of his ability to run the offense. He also doesn't seem to be that interested in giving effort on d this season. They also fear that he will re-injure himself.

 

[biltalent]

I'd love Bledsoe but I can't see the Suns wanting WCS.

Even if they don't re-sign Len, they will have Dudley & Chandler as vets and Bender & Chriss as the youth.

Also, Willie's biggest drawback (rebounding) is also an issue for Bender & Chriss.

Its hard to come up with players that the Suns would be interested in if you look at it like that. At PG they have Bledsoe, Knight and Ulis. At SG, Booker is the guy going forward. At SF Warren looks promising. They also used the #4 and #8 pick to adress the PF spot. and at C they have Len and Chandler. But the reality is they are a 28-30 win team. Their Fans are slowly getting the memo that Bledsoe alone won't lead them nowhere. This discrepancy shows me that their time is 3-4 years from now after Bledsoe when their young guys are ready. Drawing on that I would say the best way is to build around Booker, Warren and Bender/Chriss and draft a PG in this upcoming draft, f.e. Ball at #4 or #5. And if you look at that core then, suddenly Willie makes a lot of sense for them as a athletic shotblocking big that catches lobs all day.

 

[Jimbob]

The last several post are good discussion. I feel we need to make at least one more attempt to improve while keeping Cousins. He is a star and we are not guaranteed a star in return.

I would love Bledsoe on this team. He seems to be healthy this year and being Cousins age and a good friend from the same school would make for great chemistry.

We would be on the up and who knows Wall may follow. I like Wall enough.

 

[KingsFanGER]

My god man, when did Crabbe become gods gift to the NBA. First, we have no way of knowing how good or bad Bogdanovic will be. I can speculate that he'll be a star, and you can speculate that he'll be a bum. So just for the record, I'm going to speculate that he's going to be better than Crabbe. On what am I basing that? Same thing your basing if on that he won't be. How's that for a straw dog?

Crabbe career stats: 20:37 mpg - 7.2 ppg - 44.4% fgp - 38.2% 3pp - 2.7 rpg
Afflalo career stats: 26:36 mpg - 11.5 ppg - 45.1% fgp - 38.3% 3pp - 3.0 rpg

You don't like those, lets go with Crabbe's current, or fourth year and Afflalo's fourth year.

Crabbe: 27:49 mpg - 8.9 ppg - 42.5% fgp - 36.1% 3pp - 2.7 rpg - 1.4 apg
Afflalo: 33:41 mpg - 12.6 ppg - 49.8% fgp - 42.3% 3pp - 3.6 rpg - 2.4 apg

Now what is it in these stats that leaps out at you, that makes Crabbe starting material, and not Afflalo. I could make an argument that neither of them should be starters in the NBA, but I certainly wouldn't give Crabbe the edge in anything other than youth. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have Crabbe on the team, but I'am saying I'm not about to give up both Bogdanovic and Willie for him. It's because of those kind of deals that this team is in the situation it's in. Were always trying to catch lightning in a bottle and were selling our soul in the process.

Crabbe isn't gods gift to the NBA..
But why would it make sense to compare Afflalos 4th season to Crabbes current season? We currently have the 11 year veteran Afflalo 0n the team and not the younger version with 4 seasons of experience. Afflalo in his 4th season was the better player. Today I would lean towards Allen Crabbe. And we have to keep in mind, that with Crabbe there is still potential to grow, whereas for Afflalo it is going downhill from here.
What really bothers me is, that Crabbe is nothing Ben McLemore couldn't be. A solid but unspectacular NBA SG, not the best ballhandler, not the best decision maker, but a good spot up shooter with some defensive potential. Ben is quicker and way more athletic than Crabbe, but Crabbe keeps his calm more often and doesn't make too many mistakes. Why give up assets to get Crabbe? Why not finally teach Ben how to make the most out of his natural gifts.
I hoped we could sign Crabbe during FA. It would have been a solid addition for now and the future. It would have been the better choice, than an aging Afflalo.
But we decided to not throw the bank after Crabbe. Throwing away WCS only to get Crabbe now, would be worse than overpaying him in FA.

 

[funkykingston]

Crabbe isn't gods gift to the NBA..
But why would it make sense to compare Afflalos 4th season to Crabbes current season? We currently have the 11 year veteran Afflalo 0n the team and not the younger version with 4 seasons of experience. Afflalo in his 4th season was the better player. Today I would lean towards Allen Crabbe. And we have to keep in mind, that with Crabbe there is still potential to grow, whereas for Afflalo it is going downhill from here.
What really bothers me is, that Crabbe is nothing Ben McLemore couldn't be. A solid but unspectacular NBA SG, not the best ballhandler, not the best decision maker, but a good spot up shooter with some defensive potential. Ben is quicker and way more athletic than Crabbe, but Crabbe keeps his calm more often and doesn't make too many mistakes. Why give up assets to get Crabbe? Why not finally teach Ben how to make the most out of his natural gifts.
I hoped we could sign Crabbe during FA. It would have been a solid addition for now and the future. It would have been the better choice, than an aging Afflalo.
But we decided to not throw the bank after Crabbe. Throwing away WCS only to get Crabbe now, would be worse than overpaying him in FA.

As I said, I think Malachi Richardson can develop into a player the caliber of Crabbe and the Kings can have him under contract for four seasons at the rookie scale vs the $18.5 million starting salary on Crabbe's contract this year.

 

[KingsFanGER]

As I said, I think Malachi Richardson can develop into a player the caliber of Crabbe and the Kings can have him under contract for four seasons at the rookie scale vs the $18.5 million starting salary on Crabbe's contract this year.

I honestly don't care, wether it's Malachi or Ben, who steps up and becomes a solid starter for this team. Ben just came to mind, because he is with the team and not in Reno.
I just don't want the Kings to throw away another young asset, only to get a solid player back, who another team developed from scratch, while our younglings fail to contribute year after year.
On this board most agree, that the Kings need a homerun in the draft. But it's not all about picking the player. It's about teaching the player, how to make the most out of his strengths and how to cover his weaknesses.

 

[funkykingston]

I honestly don't care, wether it's Malachi or Ben, who steps up and becomes a solid starter for this team. Ben just came to mind, because he is with the team and not in Reno.
I just don't want the Kings to throw away another young asset, only to get a solid player back, who another team developed from scratch, while our younglings fail to contribute year after year.
On this board most agree, that the Kings need a homerun in the draft. But it's not all about picking the player. It's about teaching the player, how to make the most out of his strengths and how to cover his weaknesses.

As for Ben vs Malachi, given what I've seen so far I think it's more likely that Richardson develops into a good complimentary player than Ben. And at this point that's actually an important thing as Ben is set to be a free agent and will likely cost significantly more to keep than Richardson. He won't get $18 million like Crabbe did but his numbers last season weren't far off and his numbers this year are actually slightly better than Crabbe's this year - somebody is going to overpay Ben I'm guessing.

On the other point, yes player development is huge. The Spurs have shown that. But at the same time I don't think Kawhi Leonard would be a scrub on the Kings. He might not be as good, but most of the development of players comes from the players. I do think Joerger will make good use of what any young guys the Kings have can do, but he's not a top tier player developing coach. The onus will be on the young guys themselves.

 

[CyKings]

I don't think WAS even picks up the phone. Collision and Gay are gone after the season. If WAS blew it up they would look for young pieces not expiring deals. Koufos, Skal and a future first probably doesn't even get you Morris

Sorry I think you are way off on this one

I didn't make the trade, Tas Mellas from The Starters did. Thought it was pretty bad

 

[kingsboi]

The last several post are good discussion. I feel we need to make at least one more attempt to improve while keeping Cousins. He is a star and we are not guaranteed a star in return.

I would love Bledsoe on this team. He seems to be healthy this year and being Cousins age and a good friend from the same school would make for great chemistry.

We would be on the up and who knows Wall may follow. I like Wall enough.

I think the best opportunity to trade for Bledsoe was when the two teams swapped draft picks IMO, I think now....not so much. Unless you give the Suns the expiring of Rudy, not much else to offer Phoenix that would entice them.

 

[206Fan]

My god man, when did Crabbe become gods gift to the NBA. First, we have no way of knowing how good or bad Bogdanovic will be. I can speculate that he'll be a star, and you can speculate that he'll be a bum. So just for the record, I'm going to speculate that he's going to be better than Crabbe. On what am I basing that? Same thing your basing if on that he won't be. How's that for a straw dog?

Crabbe career stats: 20:37 mpg - 7.2 ppg - 44.4% fgp - 38.2% 3pp - 2.7 rpg
Afflalo career stats: 26:36 mpg - 11.5 ppg - 45.1% fgp - 38.3% 3pp - 3.0 rpg

You don't like those, lets go with Crabbe's current, or fourth year and Afflalo's fourth year.

Crabbe: 27:49 mpg - 8.9 ppg - 42.5% fgp - 36.1% 3pp - 2.7 rpg - 1.4 apg
Afflalo: 33:41 mpg - 12.6 ppg - 49.8% fgp - 42.3% 3pp - 3.6 rpg - 2.4 apg

Now what is it in these stats that leaps out at you, that makes Crabbe starting material, and not Afflalo. I could make an argument that neither of them should be starters in the NBA, but I certainly wouldn't give Crabbe the edge in anything other than youth. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to have Crabbe on the team, but I'am saying I'm not about to give up both Bogdanovic and Willie for him. It's because of those kind of deals that this team is in the situation it's in. Were always trying to catch lightning in a bottle and were selling our soul in the process.

Comparing stats head on to Crabbe and Afflalo doesn't do a lot of good when you're ignoring playing style. Afflalo is 31 and cannot be a building block around Cousins going forward. He is already a declining player. Afflalo has always been more of an iso player who doesn't excel off-ball. Crabbe is a 25yearold player who has 4 years left to his name. Crabbe excels as an off-ball player who can play good defense. At this age, Afflalo struggles a bit on that end. Crabbe could actually be a building block to Cousins just purely due to his age alone if you ignore play style and everything else.

I have no clue why we're comparing Afflalo's to Crabbe's 4th year. Afflalo is not the same player he was from 4 years ago. Afflalo and Crabbe play nothing alike either.

You must have misread the initial trade. It was WCS+Afflalo for Crabbe. We wouldn't be giving up on Bogdanovic. If you didn't misread it, who's to say that if Crabbe starts, it means we're giving up on Bogdanovic? There's more than enough room for him to come off the bench and make a gigantic impact for us. Hell, Crabbe has proven that he can play SF too. We could even pair them up if it goes that way.

 

[Telemachus]

Comparing stats head on to Crabbe and Afflalo doesn't do a lot of good when you're ignoring playing style. Afflalo is 31 and cannot be a building block around Cousins going forward. He is already a declining player. Afflalo has always been more of an iso player who doesn't excel off-ball. Crabbe is a 25yearold player who has 4 years left to his name. Crabbe excels as an off-ball player who can play good defense. At this age, Afflalo struggles a bit on that end. Crabbe could actually be a building block to Cousins just purely due to his age alone if you ignore play style and everything else.

I have no clue why we're comparing Afflalo's to Crabbe's 4th year. Afflalo is not the same player he was from 4 years ago. Afflalo and Crabbe play nothing alike either.

You must have misread the initial trade. It was WCS+Afflalo for Crabbe. We wouldn't be giving up on Bogdanovic. If you didn't misread it, who's to say that if Crabbe starts, it means we're giving up on Bogdanovic? There's more than enough room for him to come off the bench and make a gigantic impact for us. Hell, Crabbe has proven that he can play SF too. We could even pair them up if it goes that way.

You keep saying that Crabbe can play good defence, but he hasn't shown on the court IMO. BMac has shown more defensively than Crabbe, but I don't think anyone on this board would consider him a good defender. You would think Crabbe would be further along on defense at this point in his career if he was going to become a good defender.

 

[KingsFan80]

Comparing stats head on to Crabbe and Afflalo doesn't do a lot of good when you're ignoring playing style. Afflalo is 31 and cannot be a building block around Cousins going forward. He is already a declining player. Afflalo has always been more of an iso player who doesn't excel off-ball. Crabbe is a 25yearold player who has 4 years left to his name. Crabbe excels as an off-ball player who can play good defense. At this age, Afflalo struggles a bit on that end. Crabbe could actually be a building block to Cousins just purely due to his age alone if you ignore play style and everything else.

I have no clue why we're comparing Afflalo's to Crabbe's 4th year. Afflalo is not the same player he was from 4 years ago. Afflalo and Crabbe play nothing alike either.

You must have misread the initial trade. It was WCS+Afflalo for Crabbe. We wouldn't be giving up on Bogdanovic. If you didn't misread it, who's to say that if Crabbe starts, it means we're giving up on Bogdanovic? There's more than enough room for him to come off the bench and make a gigantic impact for us. Hell, Crabbe has proven that he can play SF too. We could even pair them up if it goes that way.

Crabbe is a good player. Affalo sucks now. Five years ago he was good but we didn't sign him five years ago. The Suns got tired of being jerked around by Bogdanovic so they found another team willing to take him and take on the aggravation, which was us. Until he steps on an NBA Court and scores 20 points in a game, I am not excited about him. If you can get Crabbe you trade anyone on this roster except Cousins to get him. I honestly don't think the Blazers would trade him for anything we have to offer. You all overvalue WCS value.

 

[Telemachus]

Crabbe is a good player. Affalo sucks now. Five years ago he was good but we didn't sign him five years ago. The Suns got tired of being jerked around by Bogdanovic so they found another team willing to take him and take on the aggravation, which was us. Until he steps on an NBA Court and scores 20 points in a game, I am not excited about him. If you can get Crabbe you trade anyone on this roster except Cousins to get him. I honestly don't think the Blazers would trade him for anything we have to offer. You all overvalue WCS value.

Crabbe is an OK player with a lot of flaws in his game. His biggest attraction is his 3pt shooting, which hasn't been all that good so far this season. This makes him one of the most expensive role players in the NBA, and he isn't coming close to earning his pay check yet.

 

[KingsFan80]

Crabbe is an OK player with a lot of flaws in his game. His biggest attraction is his 3pt shooting, which hasn't been all that good so far this season. This makes him one of the most expensive role players in the NBA, and he isn't coming close to earning his pay check yet.

Crabbe might be ok but going forward all players in his group, talent wise, are going to be making a lot more money than they should be. The bottom line is he might have flaws but he is better than the players on our roster

 

[Telemachus]

Crabbe might be ok but going forward all players in his group, talent wise, are going to be making a lot more money than they should be. The bottom line is he might have flaws but he is better than the players on our roster

I think you are greatly over valuing Crabbe as a player.

 

[funkykingston]

I think you are greatly over valuing Crabbe as a player.

Even when considering their respective ages and not considering the $10+ million difference in salary I'd take Temple over Crabbe every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[funkykingston]

I think the first order of business for the Kings should be to trade Rudy Gay. I'd hope for a young player with a bit of potential, a mid to late 1st rounder and salary filler.

And I would make that move whether the Kings try to build around Cousins or blow it up and start over so I hope Divac and Cantella are making phone calls already.