Say it isn't true Matt!

[Bricklayer]

And in Lawson we knew what we were getting. If he goes off the wagon I guess it's no big deal because we knew what we were getting. Whatever blows up in your face, as long as you knew what you were getting, apparently is no big deal.

No, its really not. Because you already calculated the win/loss, the good/bad. When Phil Jackson's Bulls picked up Dennis Rodman they knew exactly what they were getting. That was part of the package. So all the stupid ridiculous stuff he did, had already been factored into their decisionmaking. He was worth xx to them, already anticipating he would do Y. But now if he had caused MJ to dress up in drag and get in a night club brawl, Bulls management would no longer have been so pleased. Then your calculated damage has spread.

 

[KingsFan80]

Character, baby. Character! If you can't win, then at least you can have a bunch of solid citizens on your team!

And seasoned Vets! LOL

 

[Bricklayer]

Right! I mean, we wouldn't want to OVERREACT if one of our players was choking a female!

You apparently know a rather small sample of females. Worst case, he could absolutely get himself cut. But ponder the different scenarios we DON'T KNOW right now:

a) the female just stole his wallet, he grabs her
b) he's drunk and pissed off, she comes on to him, and he says get off me you ugly skanky ***** ***** ******. She goes ballistic and starts hitting him. He chokes her.
c) a guy gets in Barnes face and challenges him to a fight, Barnes starts to oblige, guy's girlfriend get's pissed and hits him as a scuffle ensues, he chokes her
d) she walks up to him and says "nice game loser, bet your wife and the guy she is banging were having a good laugh!", he chokes her
e) he comes on to a girl, she rejects him, he chokes her while trying to force a kiss
f) he walks in the bar and chokes the first woman he meets for the fun of it

etc. etc. etc.

All of it is bad, but you can go from dicey borderline situations all the way to instant cut scenarios. You just don't know yet.

 

[Bricklayer]

Character, baby. Character! If you can't win, then at least you can have a bunch of solid citizens on your team!

We have a bunch of solid citizens on the team.

Barnes was never supposed to be one of them. Gritty vet with personal issues from the start. But a key thing is that his crap had to always stay with him. He does something dumb and lets the team down, ok. You always thought he could. But he absolutely cannot be allowed to drag Boogie into it, or screw up the kids with it, or anything like that. He wants to drink and brawl, he had to drink alone.

 

[KingsFan80]

You apparently know a rather small sample of females. Worst case, he could absolutely get himself cut. But ponder the different scenarios we DON'T KNOW right now:

a) the female just stole his wallet, he grabs her
b) he's drunk and pissed off, she comes on to him, and he says get off me you ugly skanky ***** ***** ******. She goes ballistic and starts hitting him. He chokes her.
c) a guy gets in Barnes face and challenges him to a fight, Barnes starts to oblige, guy's girlfriend get's pissed and hits him as a scuffle ensues, he chokes her
d) she walks up to him and says "nice game loser, bet your wife and the guy she is banging were having a good laugh!", he chokes her
e) he comes on to a girl, she rejects him, he chokes her while trying to force a kiss
f) he walks in the bar and chokes the first woman he meets for the fun of it

etc. etc. etc.

All of it is bad, but you can go from dicey borderline situations all the way to instant cut scenarios. You just don't know yet.

If he choked a female, I don't care what the scenario was, he needs to be gone. There is never any circumstances where it is ok to touch a female.

 

[CelticsFan]

You apparently know a rather small sample of females. Worst case, he could absolutely get himself cut. But ponder the different scenarios we DON'T KNOW right now:

a) the female just stole his wallet, he grabs her
b) he's drunk and pissed off, she comes on to him, and he says get off me you ugly skanky ***** ***** ******. She goes ballistic and starts hitting him. He chokes her.
c) a guy gets in Barnes face and challenges him to a fight, Barnes starts to oblige, guy's girlfriend get's pissed and hits him as a scuffle ensues, he chokes her
d) she walks up to him and says "nice game loser, bet your wife and the guy she is banging were having a good laugh!", he chokes her
e) he comes on to a girl, she rejects him, he chokes her while trying to force a kiss
f) he walks in the bar and chokes the first woman he meets for the fun of it

etc. etc. etc.

All of it is bad, but you can go from dicey borderline situations all the way to instant cut scenarios. You just don't know yet.

Brick no offense but it sounds like we may have been raised differently. Under no circumstances do you put hands on a female. I'm going to guess you don't have daughters.

 

[Bricklayer]

If he choked a female, I don't care what the scenario was, he needs to be gone. There is never any circumstances where it is ok to touch a female.

and again, black and white rarely works. Collison BTW.

There is a difference between initiating and retaliating or protecting. It easily could be the worst. Or maybe its not.

 

[KingsFan80]

and again, black and white rarely works. Collison BTW.

There is a difference between initiating and retaliating or protecting. It easily could be the worst. Or maybe its not.

I am not sure which angle you are taking, If you are saying it is not black and white on deciding to cut a player then from a Kings perspective then yeah they need to review the whole case i guess. But my perspective he needs to be gone regardless and today regardless of the what happened. You don't touch a female.

 

[joemama]

I have never heard "stole" used that way. Here is how the urban dictionary describes the word

stole
To punch someone in the face
I stole him after when he started talking trash about mi mama.

If this is the case bad judgement by Cuz considering his hand is already hurt

This is how the word is used where I am.
Watch the video

He says he stole on the guy that was choking matt.
What word would you use that would make sense?

Again he was bragging that he punched someone

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick no offense but it sounds like we may have been raised differently. Under no circumstances do you put hands on a female. I'm going to guess you don't have daughters.

Its a great rule. I've never laid hands on any woman myself and have no intention of.

But on the other hand just to take my first scenario, I'll be traveling to Thailand in a few months and if some woman were to pickpocket me and try to get away you had better believe I would pick her right up and shake her until my wallet fell free. Similarly if a woman were to come up and point a gun at you and you get a chance, you knock her right on her butt.

Nothing is ever black and white. Never laying hands on a woman is a great and time honored rule my dad taught me and I would absolutely teach a son if I had one. But it depends on standards of behavior (i.e. the assumption that the woman is not going to initiate physical aggression) that might fly right out the window in a crowded New York bar full of booze. Since we don't know the circumstances yet, the rest is just grandstanding.

 

[joemama]

Leave to Kings fans to somehow turn a story about Matt Barnes choking someone into a story about Demarcus Cousins punching a dude.

No I'm explaining what one word means.
It seemed obvious to me that no one else had described what he said.

So I did.

I am a Cuz fan, but I am describing what Cuz (himself) said.

He said someone was choking matt, so he (cuz) punched him.

 

[upinsmoke]

This team is the definition of unprofessional. If your not ready for a reset I'm not sure what it'll take.

 

[CelticsFan]

Its a great rule. I've never laid hands on any woman myself and have no intention of.

Similarly if a woman were to come up and point a gun at you and you get a chance, you knock her right on her butt.

Yes under the extreme circumstance you have described I agree with you. Judging from the video we saw I don't believe Boogie or Matt thought their lives were in danger.

 

[Chubbs]

I don't know exactly what happened and I know it doesn't matter.

If the team needed a push to break up the kings, they now have it.

Up to them whether they'll take it.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Why can't DMC just spend his free time with Garret Temple? SMH

 

[kingjatt]

He looks intoxicated and it was the other night where Barnes/Cousins posted that Hennessy video, and one of my concerns is Cousins losing physical fitness as the season has wore on

Hopefully this is cleared up. Barnes hasn't been impressive on the floor and has been supplanted by Omri already IMO

This one is on Vlade, knowing Cuz's volatile personality bringing in a shaky matt barnes always had this type of risk to it. Cuz seems like someone who would embrace whatever culture he is put around, in my opinion its established that he is not a leader but in a place with a leader who is actually a star player I feel like he would thrive and be in the gym instead of out posing with Hennessy bottles etc. He needs an example who earns his respect thru play on the court, bench warmer leaders dont cut it.

I think Vlade miscalculated that with Cuz being the best player he would be the leader as well and its back firing. We are not the type of organization that can absorb a Matt Barnes and get by as we are seeing.

Fingers crossed that it was truly a self defense incident and it becomes a he said she said thing that amounts to nothing, but with the history of these guys (and them clowning around on video) its safe to say that would be wishful thinking.

I think Sacramento fans would be more than willing to wait on details and reserve judgement but the losses mounting in a year where we are desperate to win just enough to justify not going full sixers makes this thing really tough to swallow and as mentioned above could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

To see something like cuz and barnes out late at night getting into bar fights as Kings fans put so much passion(and money) into this team is beyond disheartening. This is a gut punch to all of us as we are slipping away to blowing it up and our biggest asset puts a dent in his own trade value.

I dont care about Barnes or Cousins hurting there reputations what I care most about is Cousins handicapping this teams potential rebuild because he is the only one who can net us anything of value. Not to be too extreme but this could very well lead to being the difference between a 3 year rebuild or a 5-7 year rebuild.

 

[CelticsFan]

From Matt's rep

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/05...-fight/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Bricklayer]

From Matt's rep

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/05...-fight/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ok, as mentioned, that seems unlikely, but once the booze starts flowing average IQ's start plummeting and...

as I've said repeatedly, we have to wait and see. There is supposedly video from inside the club, so...

 

[Blob]

Cut this bum. He's a washed up a player making 36% FGs and 30% from 3s. Who cares how gritty and savvy he is, he can't shoot and throws it away carelessly, doesn't have the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter. His game is predicated on reaching and swipes and the occasional hot streak. You can't win with this guy and that's why LAC dumped him despite being desperate for SF.

My least favorite type of player besides a fake hustle player who gives the illusion of effort like JT currently faking it in China is the guy who can't shoot but thinks he can. Brick, brick....brick! Quit shooting Barnes, everyone knows you can't make it but you! His shot has a hitch in it. It is broke. Its not going to get better. He shot 38% and 32% last year so what you see is what you get.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest Skal and Omri can take up his minutes and make 36% of their FGs or better. Their young legs will compensate for any savvy we would otherwise miss. I don't know what happened at the club, but I know its not hard to set off Matt Barnes. Where others take the high road and dismiss low status individuals who want to pick fights, Barnes will want to get into a D measuring contest.

 

[Blob]

We have a bunch of solid citizens on the team.

Barnes was never supposed to be one of them. Gritty vet with personal issues from the start. But a key thing is that his poopoo had to always stay with him. He does something dumb and lets the team down, ok. You always thought he could. But he absolutely cannot be allowed to drag Boogie into it, or screw up the kids with it, or anything like that. He wants to drink and brawl, he had to drink alone.

You are coming from the assumption that Barnes has game, that the value he brings is worth trouble and potential trouble. But the guy can't play!

If Joerger did not have an affinity for this bum, he'd be on a minimum deal, playing overseas or retired. His decline started last year when he went from 44% career FGs to 38%. At age 35, this is no surprise. His decline has preceded on expected schedule this year with worse shooting. An old player loses his legs from underneath him and this is when his shot goes, and when scoring in transition happens less frequently. This is was all highly expected by 29 out 30 teams.

 

[Bricklayer]

You are coming from the assumption that Barnes has game, that the value he brings is worth trouble and potential trouble. But the guy can't play!

If Joerger did not have an affinity for this bum, he'd be on a minimum deal, playing overseas or retired. His decline started last year when he went from 44% career FGs to 38%. At age 35, this is no surprise. His decline has preceded on expected schedule this year with worse shooting. An old player loses his legs from underneath him and this is when his shot goes, and when scoring in transition happens less frequently. This is was all highly expected by 29 out 30 teams.

If he were an offensive player, this would be true. But he's not primarily. And there have been at least 4 or 5 games this year where Matt Barnes was a key hustle and defense contributor, who also can grease an offense with his passing. The same feisty that leads him into trouble everywhere can give a team a definite lift. Us over-relying on him as an offensive player is more about the lack of functioning offensive weapons than anything else.

 

[Kingster]

We have a bunch of solid citizens on the team.

Barnes was never supposed to be one of them. Gritty vet with personal issues from the start. But a key thing is that his poopoo had to always stay with him. He does something dumb and lets the team down, ok. You always thought he could. But he absolutely cannot be allowed to drag Boogie into it, or screw up the kids with it, or anything like that. He wants to drink and brawl, he had to drink alone.

Apparently even though management calculated the risk of Barnes, and therefore are absolved of the consequences of Barnes' misdeeds in your view, they didn't know that Cousins or the youngins might be affected by potential Barnes' misdeeds. Very strange logic indeed: Surround youngins and Cousins with sketchy veterans and assume youngins and Cousins will not be affected by behavior of those sketchy individuals. If you lay down with dogs...

 

[CyKings]

at least this didn't pile onto it...

Adrian Wojnarowski

✔@WojVerticalNBA
Rajon Rondo -- suspended for tonight's game -- had a "heated exchange" with a Bulls assistant in Mavericks loss, sources tell @TheVertical.

 

[Blob]

If he were an offensive player, this would be true. But he's not primarily. And there have been at least 4 or 5 games this year where Matt Barnes was a key hustle and defense contributor, who also can grease an offense with his passing. The same feisty that leads him into trouble everywhere can give a team a definite lift. Us over-relying on him as an offensive player is more about the lack of functioning offensive weapons than anything else.

Barnes is averaging a 1.9 turnovers per game (career high) with his stupid low percentage passes. He is throwing a wrench into the offense more than greasing it. His net contribution is stunningly bad, because he's a high risk player, offensively and defensively, and his risks backfire more often than succeed. Barnes never saw a shot he didn't want to jack, a risky pass he didn't want to thread through the eye of a needle, or a risky steal he didn't want to go for and leave the defense exposed. Look at his NET rating (-17). Pure garbage! I know you like this guy for his no-holds-barred approach to the game. I like gritty players too. But he's done. We signed him 2-3 years too late.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

He said someone was choking matt, so he (cuz) punched him.

Don't try to tell us that if you were out with friends and you saw one of them being choked by someone that you'd just stand there and not do a thing. If that's the case, be sure to tell all your friends never to go out in public with you. Just in case.

 

[funkykingston]

As a player Matt Barnes can be inconsistent and no good team should be counting on him for offense but honestly anyone who thinks he can't play doesn't watch the games.

Barnes went from a guy who had to be a designated enforcer/thug to make a roster to a very skilled utility player who can guard three positions, rebounds well, passes the ball well and makes heady, effort plays while still being a guy that can get chippy, something every team needs a little of.

The fact that he's been the Kings best player is less an affirmation of his value as it is a sad realization of how much the Kings have struggled this year.

All that said, this shouldn't at all be about his value on the court.

It's hard not to have a knee jerk reaction to a headline like that, but I want to hear the facts. As far as I know it hasn't been confirmed that Barnes actually choked a woman. So my pitchfork isn't our just yet.

But if that is what happened and Barnes is at fault I would want him gone. And if Cousins hit a guy in a barb fight that Barnes started then I'm definitely past the tipping point of wanting to trade Cousins and rebuild.

In all likelihood though the truth is somewhere in the middle which takes these sorts of decisions out of the realm of black and white and into that murky gray area that apparently all things Kings related tend to live.

We'll see.

 

[bajaden]

You apparently know a rather small sample of females. Worst case, he could absolutely get himself cut. But ponder the different scenarios we DON'T KNOW right now:

a) the female just stole his wallet, he grabs her
b) he's drunk and pissed off, she comes on to him, and he says get off me you ugly skanky ***** ***** ******. She goes ballistic and starts hitting him. He chokes her.
c) a guy gets in Barnes face and challenges him to a fight, Barnes starts to oblige, guy's girlfriend get's pissed and hits him as a scuffle ensues, he chokes her
d) she walks up to him and says "nice game loser, bet your wife and the guy she is banging were having a good laugh!", he chokes her
e) he comes on to a girl, she rejects him, he chokes her while trying to force a kiss
f) he walks in the bar and chokes the first woman he meets for the fun of it

etc. etc. etc.

All of it is bad, but you can go from dicey borderline situations all the way to instant cut scenarios. You just don't know yet.

I think it's safe to assume that there could be some culpability on the part of the other players in this drama. So It might be a good idea to wait and see what all the facts are.

Back a thousand years ago when I was in the Marine Corp, and young and stupid, I went to TJ with another Marine and got very very drunk. To be honest, I have no memory of what happened. Everything I know about that night I was told by people that were also there. There was a point where I stood up to go to the bathroom and everything went black. Problem is, I didn't pass out. I was still up and operating. Scary right? Apparently a female of the house came over and sat on my lap. I'm told that I told her to get the f__k off my lap and when she didn't, I shoved her onto the floor.

Well, the house bouncer took offense to that and grabbed me. Of course I took offense to that and punched him. A major mistake I might add. Not only was he bigger than me, he was sober. Needless to say, I lost that battle. Probably a good thing that I have no real memory of it. My first awareness came when I woke up in the San Diego Brig with a huge headache and many bruises spread around various parts of my body. Now those facts don't vindicate me of blame, but I had no intent to harm the young lady. (being kind here) On the other hand, she didn't get off my lap as requested. I think!

Look, my story has nothing to do with Barnes, except to point out that things aren't just black and white. So why don't we wait and see what the facts are before getting the rope and looking for a tree.

 

[Blob]

As a player Matt Barnes can be inconsistent and no good team should be counting on him for offense but honestly anyone who thinks he can't play doesn't watch the games.

Barnes went from a guy who had to be a designated enforcer/thug to make a roster to a very skilled utility player who can guard three positions, rebounds well, passes the ball well and makes heady, effort plays while still being a guy that can get chippy, something every team needs a little of.

The fact that he's been the Kings best player is less an affirmation of his value as it is a sad realization of how much the Kings have struggled this year.
.

If this assessment was true he wouldn't have an ORtg of 92 and DRtg of 109 (-17). If he was valuable utility guy why does the team pretty much stink when he is on the floor? Rhetorical question. The answer is for every two good plays you assign him credit for, he makes 3-4 bad plays including (1) terrible shooting (2) risky passing, and (3) missed defensive assignments.

A-Slow-o has been really bad for us this year too. But to contrast, A-Slow-o has made only 4 turnovers to Barnes 37 turnovers. This high raw number is in the context of 1.4 assist to turnover ratio. A wing player should be 2:1 assist to turnover or they are making more poor decisions with their passes than good ones, and this inefficiency contributes to his negative NET rating of -17.

 

[Bricklayer]

If this assessment was true he wouldn't have an ORtg of 92 and DRtg of 109 (-17). If he was valuable utility guy why does the team pretty much stink when he is on the floor? Rhetorical question. The answer is for every two good plays you assign him credit for, he makes 3-4 bad plays including (1) terrible shooting (2) risky passing, and (3) missed defensive assignments.

A-Slow-o has been really bad for us this year too. But to contrast, A-Slow-o has made only 4 turnovers to Barnes 37 turnovers. This high raw number is in the context of 1.4 assist to turnover ratio. A wing player should be 2:1 assist to turnover or they are making more poor decisions with their passes than good ones, and this inefficiency contributes to his negative NET rating of -17.

The team's fine when he's on the floor. Overall +/- is -0.9, overall team +/- is -2.6.

The bigger story behind those numbers is that in any give game he can be +20 or -20, but joerger has a pretty decent feel for that and his minutes vary heavily depending on which way he is swinging.

 

[Blob]

I think it's safe to assume that there could be some culpability on the part of the other players in this drama. So It might be a good idea to wait and see what all the facts are.

Back a thousand years ago when I was in the Marine Corp, and young and stupid, I went to TJ with another Marine and got very very drunk. To be honest, I have no memory of what happened. Everything I know about that night I was told by people that were also there. There was a point where I stood up to go to the bathroom and everything went black. Problem is, I didn't pass out. I was still up and operating. Scary right? Apparently a female of the house came over and sat on my lap. I'm told that I told her to get the f__k off my lap and when she didn't, I shoved her onto the floor.

Well, the house bouncer took offense to that and grabbed me. Of course I took offense to that and punched him. A major mistake I might add. Not only was he bigger than me, he was sober. Needless to say, I lost that battle. Probably a good thing that I have no real memory of it. My first awareness came when I woke up in the San Diego Brig with a huge headache and many bruises spread around various parts of my body. Now those facts don't vindicate me of blame, but I had no intent to harm the young lady. (being kind here) On the other hand, she didn't get off my lap as requested. I think!

Look, my story has nothing to do with Barnes, except to point out that things aren't just black and white. So why don't we wait and see what the facts are before getting the rope and looking for a tree.

The effects of alcohol magnifies personality and character traits already there. So if a person is inclined to a certain way of thinking or acting. the loss of inhibition increases the inclination that thought or behavior will manifest. Barnes has a history of being triggered to acts of aggression where others do not. There is no grey area here.