Kings Down-Picks

KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#61
#61
CelticsFan said:
There are 65 rookies that have played minutes in the NBA so far this season. Out of the 65 rookies Skal has played the 49th most, Richardson has played the 58th most and Papa has played the 62nd most minutes. That's a lot of rookies playing more minutes then our 3 first round picks. Golden State has a rookie second round pick playing almost 15 MPG. I know it's still early but keep Papa in the D league and figure out a way to get rookies some minutes
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Doesn't really fit my own point of view, but I will be playing some devils advocate:
It could be, that we are playing our rookies less, because we are still learning our offensive and defensive system and even our veterans struggle at times with simple roations or picks. So fitting in rookies, who tend to lose confidence quickly, when they make mistakes, might be a difficult task.
With the Blazers or the Spurs it's different. Every veteran on these teams can help the rookies understanding the system. All that Layman is expected to do, is come in and hit wide open 3's. It's the same with Bertans on the Spurs.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#63
#63
KingsFanGER said:
Doesn't really fit my own point of view, but I will be playing some devils advocate:
It could be, that we are playing our rookies less, because we are still learning our offensive and defensive system and even our veterans struggle at times with simple roations or picks. So fitting in rookies, who tend to lose confidence quickly, when they make mistakes, might be a difficult task.
With the Blazers or the Spurs it's different. Every veteran on these teams can help the rookies understanding the system. All that Layman is expected to do, is come in and hit wide open 3's. It's the same with Bertans on the Spurs.
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In Bertans' case, he's pretty much being plugged into the exact same role as Matt Bonner was with the Spurs for the past decade, with Bonner being brought in to replace Robert Horry in the same role.

Not sure what you're supposed to do? Here, watch this tape of this guy playing your exact role on several championship teams. The Spurs do an amazing job of finding undervalued talent that can fit right into the holes in their system and suddenly making them look like really really good players.

I mean, Boban doesn't look that great this season while Dedmon is looking awesome filling his exact role from last season. Pop is a genius so there's no question the Spurs are best run organization in the NBA. They are a machine. When Parker and Ginobili retire, Mills and Simmons and just step in and the Spurs will probably barely even look like they skipped a beat. Then when Mills goes away, they have Murray just soaking up savvy and experience on their bench.
 
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C

CelticsFan

Bench
#64
#64
KingsFanGER said:
Doesn't really fit my own point of view, but I will be playing some devils advocate:
It could be, that we are playing our rookies less, because we are still learning our offensive and defensive system and even our veterans struggle at times with simple roations or picks. So fitting in rookies, who tend to lose confidence quickly, when they make mistakes, might be a difficult task.
With the Blazers or the Spurs it's different. Every veteran on these teams can help the rookies understanding the system. All that Layman is expected to do, is come in and hit wide open 3's. It's the same with Bertans on the Spurs.
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Here is a list of rookie coaches and their rookie total mins so far. Kings aren't winning the West this season. Let your future, your first round picks play this year and see what you got. Kings need to figure out who their core players are not chase a ring. I hate seeing 1st round picks not play on bad teams, never mind three on one team.

McMillian Pacers (6-6)
Niang (Round 2) 35 Min

Mike D'Antoni, Rockets (6-5)
No rookies on roster

Scott Brooks, Wizards (2-8)
Tomas Satoransky (2012 Round 2) 188 Min
Ochefu (undrafted) 8 Min

David Fizdale, Grizzlies (6-5)
Wade Baldwin (17th overall) 137 Min
Andrew Harrison (2015 2nd round) 239 Min
Dyonta Davis (2nd round) 55 Min

Tom Thibodeau, Timberwolves (3-7)
Dunn (5th overall) 202 Min

Dave Joerger, Kings (4-8)
Skal (28th) 15 Min
Papagiannis (13th) 6 Min
Richardson (22nd) 8 Min
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#65
#65
There are 82 games in the season. Lots of time to play the rookies if the season continues to go sideways. I guess we could go the Ben McLemore route and just play the rookies big minutes and watch them flounder and lose confidence.
 
C

CelticsFan

Bench
#66
#66
dude12 said:
There are 82 games in the season. Lots of time to play the rookies if the season continues to go sideways. I guess we could go the Ben McLemore route and just play the rookies big minutes and watch them flounder and lose confidence.
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With those expectations I'll assume you don't have faith in Vlades picks. I don't either but having 3 first round picks not playing any minutes is frustrating. Clearly Vlade saw SOMETHING in these guys. Hopefully he proves his critics wrong
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#67
#67
CelticsFan said:
With those expectations I'll assume you don't have faith in Vlades picks. I don't either but having 3 first round picks not playing any minutes is frustrating. Clearly Vlade saw SOMETHING in these guys. Hopefully he proves his critics wrong
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We are one of the deepest teams in the league in experienced vets. And we drafted long term project 19 year olds this year. They don't fit naturally, and the highest drafted one may have been a mistake pick.

On top of which we are trying to save Cuz's Sacto career, and we have a new coach trying to establish a new system and identity. There simply is no call to involve basketball children in what we are doing right now. They would be a distraction, and there is no rush with a 19 year old. Depending on how they develop behind the scenes, and how the season goes, they might become appropriate concerns during the second half of the season.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#68
#68
CelticsFan said:
With those expectations I'll assume you don't have faith in Vlades picks. I don't either but having 3 first round picks not playing any minutes is frustrating. Clearly Vlade saw SOMETHING in these guys. Hopefully he proves his critics wrong
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If that is what you got out of my statement......have some patience.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#69
#69
CelticsFan said:
Here is a list of rookie coaches and their rookie total mins so far. Kings aren't winning the West this season. Let your future, your first round picks play this year and see what you got. Kings need to figure out who their core players are not chase a ring. I hate seeing 1st round picks not play on bad teams, never mind three on one team.

McMillian Pacers (6-6)
Niang (Round 2) 35 Min

Mike D'Antoni, Rockets (6-5)
No rookies on roster

Scott Brooks, Wizards (2-8)
Tomas Satoransky (2012 Round 2) 188 Min
Ochefu (undrafted) 8 Min

David Fizdale, Grizzlies (6-5)
Wade Baldwin (17th overall) 137 Min
Andrew Harrison (2015 2nd round) 239 Min
Dyonta Davis (2nd round) 55 Min

Tom Thibodeau, Timberwolves (3-7)
Dunn (5th overall) 202 Min

Dave Joerger, Kings (4-8)
Skal (28th) 15 Min
Papagiannis (13th) 6 Min
Richardson (22nd) 8 Min
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Our rookies just aren't ready for the NBA. You can go ahead and fault Vlade for making the draft picks, but it has nothing to do with our coaches though. Skal is thin as rails, can't rebound, and will get dominated on defense. Papagiannis is extremely raw, and he's already had some difficulty adjusting to the pace of SL alone. Richardson is not as raw as the other guys, but he's still raw. He can't do anything at this level except catch and shoot 3s, and take long 2s. We already have Afflalo, McLemore, Temple, Barnes, and Casspi all at our wing depth. There's no reason why Richardson should be playing over these guys.

Our rookies will get minutes once Vlade decides to blow it all up. I disagreed with all of our draft selections, but there's not much else we can do except to root for them once they're actually on our team.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#70
#70
206Fan said:
Our rookies will get minutes once Vlade decides to blow it all up. I disagreed with all of our draft selections, but there's not much else we can do except to root for them once they're actually on our team.
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I would have chosen Skal at #28. I think he was absolutely worth the risk at that point. Even with the college season he had, he still had one of the highest ceilings in this draft. I would have taken him at 22 if it were not for another player I liked a little more being available (we didn't take him).

I was pretty clear about who I wanted with our picks during the draft...

#13 - Baldwin
#22 - Luwawu
#28 - Labissiere

All of those players are pretty raw, but they have all-star/fringe all-star potential. They all are good athletes, good defenders, and have good size & length for their position. Bogdan probably doesn't have the defensive potential of the others but is more advanced offensively and still has great size & length for his position

Height w/o Shoes
Baldwin - 6'2.5"
Bogdanovic - 6'5.25"
Luwawu - 6'7"
Labissiere - 6'10.5"

Weight
Baldwin - 200 lbs
Bogdanovic - 200 lbs
Luwawu - 205 lbs
Labissiere - 216 lbs

Wingspan
Baldwin - 6'11.25"
Bogdanovic - 6'11"
Luwawu - 6'11"
Labissiere - 7'2.5"


I really, really wish this was our haul coming out of this year's draft. If you work on developing our young talent and stay patient, those 4 players could have possibly been the future starting lineup around Cousins (w/ McLemore & Cauley-Stein potentially in the mix as well). Oh what could have been...
 
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C

CelticsFan

Bench
#71
#71
Bricklayer said:
On top of which we are trying to save Cuz's Sacto career
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Shame on the front office for not putting more talent around Cuz. If they were concerned with saving Cuz why not trade that 8th pick for some serious talent instead of guys that have zero impact on your team.

Putting lifetime backup vets and guys that are past there prime around Cuz to try and keep him here is just foolish by the FO. I know some people on this board thought we would be competing this season but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone with real credibility thinking that the way this team stands is a competitor. Take a look at the talent around Cuz. When they signed these guys did you jump for joy and say this is going to be our year?

Vlade missed on the picks as well on the FA signings. It would be a lot easier to stomach if he hit on one of the two.

If this season turns into a disaster who's fault is it Vlades, Joegers or the refs? Someone has to be accountable.
 
K

kingdivac

All-Star
#72
#72
Tetsujin said:
Yep. It's the difference between Thomas Robinson and Nik Stauskas.
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Sure you can pick an outlier comparison - that's not what I'm getting at - No, its not getting into the top 5 enough - statistics. Its always a crap shoot, but you want your pick of the litter if possible. The Kings only got into the top-5 three times in 12 years while only making the playoffs twice. As the old core eroded, the management could not put together a new core, and still hasn't. When its evident a team is not competitive, the draft order gains some importance. Picking the talent, the Kings organization flubs as well, so its a double-whammy really. The 30's win team is a purgatory handicap for the team, and quite a few years they're not making even 30.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#73
#73
CelticsFan said:
Here is a list of rookie coaches and their rookie total mins so far. Kings aren't winning the West this season. Let your future, your first round picks play this year and see what you got. Kings need to figure out who their core players are not chase a ring. I hate seeing 1st round picks not play on bad teams, never mind three on one team.

McMillian Pacers (6-6)
Niang (Round 2) 35 Min

Mike D'Antoni, Rockets (6-5)
No rookies on roster

Scott Brooks, Wizards (2-8)
Tomas Satoransky (2012 Round 2) 188 Min
Ochefu (undrafted) 8 Min

David Fizdale, Grizzlies (6-5)
Wade Baldwin (17th overall) 137 Min
Andrew Harrison (2015 2nd round) 239 Min
Dyonta Davis (2nd round) 55 Min

Tom Thibodeau, Timberwolves (3-7)
Dunn (5th overall) 202 Min

Dave Joerger, Kings (4-8)
Skal (28th) 15 Min
Papagiannis (13th) 6 Min
Richardson (22nd) 8 Min
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Well it's difficult for me to defend the lack of playing time for our rookies. But we don't chase a ring. It seems to be all about making the Playoffs to convince our only good player to resign. Joerger and Vlade seem to be on the same page, that playing rookies while trying to win enough to make the Playoffs is not the right thing to do.
Of course we can point out all those 19 year old kids, who actually contribute to winning. Johnson had very good minutes in the Playoffs last year. Winslow looked decent. Myles Turner had quite a few great outings in his rookie season. All three were inconsistent, but they showed they belong. Let's see how things go for our rookies later in the season. o_O
 
gil renard

gil renard

Bench
#74
#74
CelticsFan said:
Here is a list of rookie coaches and their rookie total mins so far. Kings aren't winning the West this season. Let your future, your first round picks play this year and see what you got. Kings need to figure out who their core players are not chase a ring. I hate seeing 1st round picks not play on bad teams, never mind three on one team.

McMillian Pacers (6-6)
Niang (Round 2) 35 Min

Mike D'Antoni, Rockets (6-5)
No rookies on roster

Scott Brooks, Wizards (2-8)
Tomas Satoransky (2012 Round 2) 188 Min
Ochefu (undrafted) 8 Min

David Fizdale, Grizzlies (6-5)
Wade Baldwin (17th overall) 137 Min
Andrew Harrison (2015 2nd round) 239 Min
Dyonta Davis (2nd round) 55 Min

Tom Thibodeau, Timberwolves (3-7)
Dunn (5th overall) 202 Min

Dave Joerger, Kings (4-8)
Skal (28th) 15 Min
Papagiannis (13th) 6 Min
Richardson (22nd) 8 Min
Click to expand...
2nd round pick Pat McCaw has gotten more minutes on the 73 win Warriors than all our rookies combined.o_O
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#75
#75
CelticsFan said:
Shame on the front office for not putting more talent around Cuz. If they were concerned with saving Cuz why not trade that 8th pick for some serious talent instead of guys that have zero impact on your team.

Putting lifetime backup vets and guys that are past there prime around Cuz to try and keep him here is just foolish by the FO. I know some people on this board thought we would be competing this season but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone with real credibility thinking that the way this team stands is a competitor. Take a look at the talent around Cuz. When they signed these guys did you jump for joy and say this is going to be our year?

Vlade missed on the picks as well on the FA signings. It would be a lot easier to stomach if he hit on one of the two.

If this season turns into a disaster who's fault is it Vlades, Joegers or the refs? Someone has to be accountable.
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It really depends how you define competing. No I was critical in the offseason. I didn't like our moves at all, but couldn't judge the draft, because I don't know much about the prospects.
Vlade's FA signings were poor. Wether his picks work out or not is a matter of years and not a matter of 12 games.
If we will be able to "compete" for the 8th with this roster is a matter of Joerger being able to inspire the same "we against the league, the ref's and the whole damn world" attitude Memphis had last season.
Unlikely but not impossible.
If we fail Vlade's job should be in danger, because our coach can only work with the talent he brings in.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#79
#79
CelticsFan said:
There are 65 rookies that have played minutes in the NBA so far this season. Out of the 65 rookies Skal has played the 49th most, Richardson has played the 58th most and Papa has played the 62nd most minutes. That's a lot of rookies playing more minutes then our 3 first round picks. Golden State has a rookie second round pick playing almost 15 MPG. I know it's still early but keep Papa in the D league and figure out a way to get rookies some minutes
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The Rookies will get lots of minutes..............................................................in Reno. That is why they are there. The Kings 2016 Draft Class is basically the starting unit for the Reno squad.
 
K

kingdivac

All-Star
#81
#81
beb0p said:
For the record, I have always liked Satuskas and thought the Kings gave up on him way too soon. He looks like he is starting to come into his own in Philly.

http://thesixersense.com/2016/11/17/is-it-time-for-76ers-fans-to-start-believing-in-nik-stauskas/

The Robinson pick is just inexcusable.

.
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Robinson?

I actually don't blame the Kings for picking Robinson. He looked like a great prospect in college - dominant and athletic, competing in the NCAA title game against Kentucky - actually carrying the team more-or-less then. That's the crap-shoot of it.....
 
parker

parker

Bench
#83
#83
kingdivac said:
The playoffs were out of reach. I for one was dumbfounded when the wins started coming in @ 44 losses - they weren't going to win 12 in a row - fat chance. The games were meaningless at that point.....and draft positioning meaningful. Actually forfeiture would be nice for the fans. There are too many awful teams in the NBA, unworthy of playing. This Kings team is pretty close to that description. So if you're paying to watch this Kings team, you're paying too much. Hell your time is certainly worth more spent doing other things, but if you can afford and enjoy the diversion, enjoy the pain.

Isn't it in the Premier League for British Football that poor/losing teams get relegated down to lower sub-divisions.... - I kinda like that idea. Bad teams have to perform well to have the chance to play good teams.
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I guess you didn't notice that they sat Cousins, Rudy, and others for multiple games during the last quarter of the season.

Also, keep in mind as bad as you suggest the team was last year, they were in the eighth playoff spot before they imploded. And as you mention, they were off to as bad of a start as this team is (with this year's team having a much more difficult schedule and trying to integrate a lot of new pieces and schemes).

It's far too early to be giving up on this season.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#86
#86
Bricklayer said:
We are one of the deepest teams in the league in experienced vets. And we drafted long term project 19 year olds this year. They don't fit naturally, and the highest drafted one may have been a mistake pick.

On top of which we are trying to save Cuz's Sacto career, and we have a new coach trying to establish a new system and identity. There simply is no call to involve basketball children in what we are doing right now. They would be a distraction, and there is no rush with a 19 year old. Depending on how they develop behind the scenes, and how the season goes, they might become appropriate concerns during the second half of the season.
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I agree completely! Unless you've have the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft, and that player has been outstanding in summer league and pre-season, I think the Rookies are better off where ours are. They'll get minutes there and develop faster without undue pressure. Don't get me wrong, it would be fun to see Skal or Whomever bloosom and have a breakout rookie year, but the law of averages tells you that's unlikely. Now if one of them explodes at Reno, then Joerger can always call them up.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#90
#90
gil renard said:
2nd round pick Pat McCaw has gotten more minutes on the 73 win Warriors than all our rookies combined.o_O
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McCaw was outstanding in summer league, which surprised me considering he weighed about the same as a bag of chips, but the dude played great defense, shot the ball extremely well, and passed the ball well. After Dunn and Simmons, I thought he was the most impressive rookie there. So, it's not a surprise..
 
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