And while I fully don't expect it to happen, Afflalo DOES have defensive ability in their somewhere. It's not like he's been a non-defensive weenie his whole career like the last few years. Playing for his final big contract should motivate to get going on both ends (although that line of thinking failed miserably with Rondo).
What's Your Preferred Starting Lineup?
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
K
If we could trade Rudy for a legit PG who can breakdown the defence at will (Collison can't at will) Barnes and Casspi ability to play without the ball (Casspi also spots up) with excellent cutting would be a mix I can actually love. Hopefully Barnes has 1-2 good years left cause at his age literally any day could be your last in terms of basketball effectiveness father time just explodes on you.
Agreed. This roster is set up perfectly for a 2nd star PG (ugh, IT...) Add a Bledsoe or Rubio, I can see us pushing 50 games. We've actually done decently this year of putting around quality complimentary pieces next to Cuz ( Casspi, Temple, Afflalo maybe??, WCS, Barnes, Tolliver, DC) We're just missing that 2nd banana star who makes Cuz better and not take away from him.
I don't think Afflalo fits well next to Cousins and Gay BUT he is the best SG we have on our roster. Unless Ben takes a big leap, we'll be forced to start Afflalo no matter what. Temple can't start simply because he's our only backup PG.
My lineup: Collison/Afflalo/Gay/WCS/Cousins lineup.
However, I think with Afflalo, McLemore, Temple, Gay, Barnes, and Casspi, a lot of those guys are interchangeable at 2, 3, and 4.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Willie removed from starting PF, and end up as our backup C by the end of the year. Way too many options at PF that fit Cousins better on offense. Tolliver, Casspi, Gay, and Barnes would be decent options at PF too.
Dark horse lineup I really like: Collison, McLemore, Casspi, Tolliver, and Cousins.
My lineup: Collison/Afflalo/Gay/WCS/Cousins lineup.
However, I think with Afflalo, McLemore, Temple, Gay, Barnes, and Casspi, a lot of those guys are interchangeable at 2, 3, and 4.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Willie removed from starting PF, and end up as our backup C by the end of the year. Way too many options at PF that fit Cousins better on offense. Tolliver, Casspi, Gay, and Barnes would be decent options at PF too.
Dark horse lineup I really like: Collison, McLemore, Casspi, Tolliver, and Cousins.
Yeah I went with the same starting lineup you did. Of course Gay could still be traded before the start of the season. There are still some unknowns as far as the roster goes. I think where Willie ultimately ends up getting the most minutes depends on him, and also what Joerger is trying to accomplish in both the short and long term. If Willie can be more than just a dunker on offense, then I can see him getting a lot of minutes at PF. But if not, then the backup center position seems more likely. I do think he'll show better next to Cousins than he did in summer league when he was on the floor with a bunch of players he didn't know, that hadn't played together but for a short time.
I agree that right now, on paper at least, Afflalo is the best SG on the team. Nothing would please me more than for Ben to come into camp, grab the starting job at SG and finally live up to expectations. Miracles do happen, and we're due for one. Not going to hold my breath though. We've let go of a bunch of solid veteran players, and brought in a bunch of overachievers. Should be interesting to see how that works out.
I agree that right now, on paper at least, Afflalo is the best SG on the team. Nothing would please me more than for Ben to come into camp, grab the starting job at SG and finally live up to expectations. Miracles do happen, and we're due for one. Not going to hold my breath though. We've let go of a bunch of solid veteran players, and brought in a bunch of overachievers. Should be interesting to see how that works out.
Actually that would be something of a new thing for him as a pro coach. He spent his 3 years in Memphis with a Zach Randolph/Marc Gasol frontline, and little Mike Conley in the backcourt. Defenses need to be able to switch, but you could hardly pick a trio of stars less suited to it than the guys he has always coached.
I figure Joerger has seen it all during his 7 years coaching in the minor leagues.
Here is a little blurb from his Wiki:
"With five minor league championships under his belt, the National Basketball Association finally took notice and Joerger was hired by the Memphis Grizzlies as an assistant coach for the 2007–08 season under head coach Marc Iavaroni. In 2011, under Lionel Hollins, Joerger was promoted to lead assistant and took over as the team's defense specialist. The Grizzlies improved in defensive efficiency from 24th overall in 2010 to 9th in 2011, 7th in 2012, and 2nd in 2013."
Link---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Joerger
Here is a little blurb from his Wiki:
"With five minor league championships under his belt, the National Basketball Association finally took notice and Joerger was hired by the Memphis Grizzlies as an assistant coach for the 2007–08 season under head coach Marc Iavaroni. In 2011, under Lionel Hollins, Joerger was promoted to lead assistant and took over as the team's defense specialist. The Grizzlies improved in defensive efficiency from 24th overall in 2010 to 9th in 2011, 7th in 2012, and 2nd in 2013."
Link---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Joerger
I wondered "what caused the Grizzlies Defense to go from 24th in 2010 to 9th in 2011?" I figure Coach Joerger coached them up on D and then I compared the rosters those years. Adding Tony Allen and Shane Battier played a role in the defensive improvement:
Screen shots from here--> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2010.html
Screen shots from here--> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2010.html
DC,Ty,Temple
Affalo,Ben,Malachi
Rudy,Omri,Barnes
WCS,Tolliver,Skal
Cuz,Kosta, Pappa
Sorry Icuz and Lamar thats 15
With Skal 13, Malachi 14, and Papa 15 as end of bench insurance/or DL
Temple as third 1 or 2
I Like our depth and Balance
Actually I Like a Ty,Temple,Barnes,Omri,Kosta Bench as a good defensive unit with some scoring punch
Affalo,Ben,Malachi
Rudy,Omri,Barnes
WCS,Tolliver,Skal
Cuz,Kosta, Pappa
Sorry Icuz and Lamar thats 15
With Skal 13, Malachi 14, and Papa 15 as end of bench insurance/or DL
Temple as third 1 or 2
I Like our depth and Balance
Actually I Like a Ty,Temple,Barnes,Omri,Kosta Bench as a good defensive unit with some scoring punch
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If we are genuine about improving defensively and directing our focus to that of the ground, then WCS simply must play.
He does not have to be a threat offensively as long as he crashes the offensive boards and is there for the garbage points he should be OK. You have 4 other players in the starting line up capable of scoring the points in Cousins, Rudy, Afflalo and Collison.
I am also sure that Joerger will draw up some plays for him where he gets him rolling to the hoop for an easy lay up or alley oop! He is also one guy that can some points in transition.
He does not have to be a threat offensively as long as he crashes the offensive boards and is there for the garbage points he should be OK. You have 4 other players in the starting line up capable of scoring the points in Cousins, Rudy, Afflalo and Collison.
I am also sure that Joerger will draw up some plays for him where he gets him rolling to the hoop for an easy lay up or alley oop! He is also one guy that can some points in transition.
Since when is Afflalo a good defender? He's probably not even worthy of a "d" according to your scale. If I were to rate your starting lineup defensively from 1-5 (5 being excellent). it would be...
Collison = 3
Afflalo = 1.5
Gay = 2.5
Cauley-Stein = 3.5
Cousins = 4.5
Temple, on the other hand, actually balances the starting lineup for us, and would be around a 4-4.5 defensively in my book.
And Barnes is a good offensive player???
Collison = 3
Afflalo = 1.5
Gay = 2.5
Cauley-Stein = 3.5
Cousins = 4.5
Temple, on the other hand, actually balances the starting lineup for us, and would be around a 4-4.5 defensively in my book.
And Barnes is a good offensive player???
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I think we are going to see Temple on the floor when we need to stop or slow a guard or when the other team goes small 3 guard offense. He's not Tony Allen but he's going to be a fairly good defender for us.
We have multiple options on each game. If a team plays big such as Memphis, we got Boogie, Koufos, WCS...maybe Skal. When teams go with stretch 4s (Remember Ryan Anderson torching us?), we can go with Barnes or Tolliver or Casspi while still staying normal size at SF with Gay or Casspi.
We can put a backcourt out there with nice length to slow opposing teams. I still remember the Portland home game when they didnt have Lillard and McCollum went crazy and we couldn't do anything about it. Now we have multiple guys with length who can keep a guy like that from having career nights.
And maybe the biggest deal, we have a coach who appears to know how to use these assets.
We have multiple options on each game. If a team plays big such as Memphis, we got Boogie, Koufos, WCS...maybe Skal. When teams go with stretch 4s (Remember Ryan Anderson torching us?), we can go with Barnes or Tolliver or Casspi while still staying normal size at SF with Gay or Casspi.
We can put a backcourt out there with nice length to slow opposing teams. I still remember the Portland home game when they didnt have Lillard and McCollum went crazy and we couldn't do anything about it. Now we have multiple guys with length who can keep a guy like that from having career nights.
And maybe the biggest deal, we have a coach who appears to know how to use these assets.
Well the defense in the starting unit actually got worse because McLemore is a better defender tan Afflalo. The only way the starting lineup defense could improve is from Cauley-Stein taking a massive leap and/or Joerger, but if you're starting Afflalo this year, you are making Joerger's job harder.
We brought in Afflalo to give us stability at the position. He has been a very good defender over his career except the last couple of seasons. Whether that is just not giving a damn on that end or the system in place, time will tell. I am not going to write him off as a defensive liability because even in his Knicks stint, he was still a much better defender that Ballineli was for us so either way you slice it and dice it, it's an upgrade both offensively and defensively for us at that position.
Time will tell whether the defensive scheme Joerger implements will have a positive result with players like Afflalo on the court. Sometimes people get too worked up about someone not being a good individual defender. As long as he does his job defensively within the scheme and we defend well as a team, we will be fine.
Time will tell whether the defensive scheme Joerger implements will have a positive result with players like Afflalo on the court. Sometimes people get too worked up about someone not being a good individual defender. As long as he does his job defensively within the scheme and we defend well as a team, we will be fine.
Watching the Olympics, USA talked about how the other teams would muddy the game...physical, grabbing, fouling, stop the other teams rythmn. And knowing that Joeger had grit and grind in Memphis, I see Sac becoming a physical team that other teams are not going to enjoy playing. This team will be built to go full effort on defense and then run a lot of guys in and out. Should be a fun team for Joerger to coach.
K
This is a big if, but if Ty Lawson can get back to being 75% of the player he was 2-3 years ago than to me you pair him and WCS together in the 2nd unit due to his ability to penetrate and make nifty passes in the lane which greatly benefited the likes of athletic PF's in Faried (both were in the starting line up).
I'd probably than go
DC/AA/Gay/Barnes or Casspi/Cousins
Ty/Temple/Casspi or Barnes/Tolliver/WCS
I'd probably than go
DC/AA/Gay/Barnes or Casspi/Cousins
Ty/Temple/Casspi or Barnes/Tolliver/WCS
Ok man, we get it...you think Temple is better than Afflalo.
Look at your own poll, only ONE person voted to have Temple start (maybe you?)
And that's totally fine. Whether or not a player is "better" than another is entirely subjective. You can't "prove" that.
You keep asking for evidence that Afflalo is better and then when it's provided you disregard it as opinion...because it is ALWAYS opinion.
That being said, here's the most black-and-white "evidence" one can provide:
GARRETT TEMPLE AARON AFFLALO
G G
309 648
PTS PTS
4.5 11.6
TRB TRB
1.8 3.1
AST AST
1.4 2.0
FG% FG%
39.3 45.2
FG3% FG3%
33.5 38.5
FT% FT%
70.0 82.0
Effective FGP Effective FGP
46.5 51.5
Player Efficiency Player Efficiency
9.1 12.4
Win Shares Win Shares
5.7 31.9
Now that's their career averages, focus in on just last season and it's arguably more lop-sided.
We as Kings fans see Afflalo as the better player because he's been better in nearly every statistical category for his entire (longer) career.
He's been an NBA starter for multiple teams for a reason. He's also got way more playoff experience.
Your argument that his skill set best benefits the bench is at least fair in the sense that that's your opinion...
but we as Kings fans want to see actual legitimate production from our SG. Also, don't count out McLemore
who at this point is primed to get more minutes than Temple as well. Look, I applauded the Temple signing.
I like the dude's professionalism and work ethic but you're literally the only one arguing he should start and berating
people who disagree. This is what the rest of the NBA fans see, you are in the minority and that's ok cause afterall it's just opinion.
In OUR opinion (and almost every one else's) Afflalo is the better player by a long shot.
Look at your own poll, only ONE person voted to have Temple start (maybe you?)
And that's totally fine. Whether or not a player is "better" than another is entirely subjective. You can't "prove" that.
You keep asking for evidence that Afflalo is better and then when it's provided you disregard it as opinion...because it is ALWAYS opinion.
That being said, here's the most black-and-white "evidence" one can provide:
GARRETT TEMPLE AARON AFFLALO
G G
309 648
PTS PTS
4.5 11.6
TRB TRB
1.8 3.1
AST AST
1.4 2.0
FG% FG%
39.3 45.2
FG3% FG3%
33.5 38.5
FT% FT%
70.0 82.0
Effective FGP Effective FGP
46.5 51.5
Player Efficiency Player Efficiency
9.1 12.4
Win Shares Win Shares
5.7 31.9
Now that's their career averages, focus in on just last season and it's arguably more lop-sided.
We as Kings fans see Afflalo as the better player because he's been better in nearly every statistical category for his entire (longer) career.
He's been an NBA starter for multiple teams for a reason. He's also got way more playoff experience.
Your argument that his skill set best benefits the bench is at least fair in the sense that that's your opinion...
but we as Kings fans want to see actual legitimate production from our SG. Also, don't count out McLemore
who at this point is primed to get more minutes than Temple as well. Look, I applauded the Temple signing.
I like the dude's professionalism and work ethic but you're literally the only one arguing he should start and berating
people who disagree. This is what the rest of the NBA fans see, you are in the minority and that's ok cause afterall it's just opinion.
In OUR opinion (and almost every one else's) Afflalo is the better player by a long shot.