Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[Jkbiker]

The orig rumor had Blake, Crowder,and Gay as the key pieces involved
I was always ok with that. Draft picks, and small filler was to be negociated
A 2 mil Rosier or Smart at 3.5 mil is ok as filler and does fill a need for a Backup on a cheap contract I was ok with that
the picks from Boston and Clips are between those two

I think the value is close at this point

The arguments discussed by the posters here are at both ends of uneven talent of this trade
and I can see arguments for both extreme

But taking a 12 mil Amir contract for a big we do not need and Smart is not a reasonable offer for Gay and Ben? - no way
should we be involved in a deal like that.

 

[KingsFanGER]

My point is Kings' players had below average coaching, while Celtics players overachieved in a perfect system. Kings already had a player from a great system auditioning here for a season, and looks like everybody's happy about the result...or not.

S0 we should only sign players that come from a crappy system? Maybe the likes of Lou Williams, because they can create their own shot? Or should we stay away from a hypothetical trade for Draymond Green, because the guy is a glorified role player coming from a perfect system?
Bellinelli always was a bad defender. Crowder's defense never was a question.
Joerger knows how to coach, he knows how to use role players. Why shouldn't we aim for a similar playstyle like the Celtics? This kind of playstyle is in our reach and might net us a Playoff spot. Trying to beat teams with talent, when your second best talent is Rudy Gay won't get the job done.

 

[twslam07]

Is this the same rozier that averaged 1 pt 1 reb 1 ast? And jaylen Brown who has never played a min in the NBA? That is more value than Rudy Gay?

You couldn't even get his numbers right which shows your bias right there... I don't know about you but I was taught that a 1.8 rounds up to 2 and that a 1.6 rounds up to 2 as well. Not that it really makes a difference at all, but again, it shows the bias to try and manipulate stats to prove your point.

Steve Nash was at 3 PPG, 2 APG, & 1 RPG in his rookie season being 1 year older than Rozier. Writing someone off after a rookie campaign when the player played 39 games / 8 MPG is pretty illogical.

By the way, Rozier is actually playing very well in Summer League this year. Below are his per36 numbers through 6 games:
54% FG% / 45% 3PA% / 84% FT% / 24.7 PPG / 6.5 RPG / 4.3 APG / 1.8 SPG / 0.2 BPG / 2.7 TOPG

Granted it's summer league, but it's definitely a good sign that he's playing very strongly.


You make another horrible point in reference to Brown. Would you not to Simmons, Ingram, or Dunn for Gay then? What about Simmons, Ingram, AND Dunn? I mean none of them have played a minute in the NBA so they must not have much value

The point is that Gay is a 30 year old expiring who could easily leave next year. Versus Brown & Rozier who we can keep for 7-8 years.


Now would I make the trade? Possibly not because both might not help us win this year and we really need to be competitive to persuade Cousins to stay (and Cousins is definitely a more important asset than Brown & Rozier).

 

[twslam07]

Classic overvaluation of youth.

With no points to back up your claim...well done

 

[CelticsFan]

Rozier has played well in SL no doubt. Last season he didn't get many minutes because the Celtics are so deep at the guard position. Rozier would be a really nice two way PG for Sac. If he was traded he could possibly end up as the starter by the end of the year

 

[twslam07]

Ditto I'm I'm sorry tslam as of today Gay can play rings around Jaylen

So? How does that give him more value in a trade? You're seeing what you want to see and not taking everything into account.

or Crowder, that's why Clippers want him not mediocre players from Boston so they can replace Blakes scoring

Now wait a minute. Crowder was statistically better than Gay last year at helping a team win. Don't get caught up in iso scoring as the deterrent for who is a better player. Scoring is only one facet of the game.

Vlade said he would not trade gay unless we get better
smart and Amir is not better. Than Gay

I would agree that neither is better than Gay (right now), but again, that's a deal that I don't see Boston making. They're giving up too much value adding in Smart. Gay alone is not enough to net Smart let alone adding Johnson into the mix.

Boston screwed up the third pick and Rosier is a scrub
They are valuable only due to cheap contracts and possible potential
But they are not better players for this year

How do you know they screwed up the 3rd pick? He hasn't even played a game in the NBA and you are already claiming they screwed up? When can I borrow that crystal ball of yours?

Brown has a lot of potential but he also has a lot he still needs to work on. He started off struggling in summer league, but he looks like he has turned a corner these last 2 games as he has adjusted. Below are his per36 numbers over the last 2 games:

57% TS% / 44% FG% / 25% 3PT% / 71% FT% / 26.6 PPG / 11.2 RPG / 1.8 APG / 3.5 SPG / 0.5 BPG / 3.0 TOPG

Not to mention he's averaging 16.5 FTAs per game. 16.5! That's pretty darn impressive.

Does he have his faults & weaknesses? Yes, but to speak in such absolutes about a thing (the draft) that is so unpredictable is borderline lunacy.


You can call Rozier a scrub but he's a scrub with value, and like I mentioned in my last post. He's played very well this summer league as well. Why are people so impatient with players that if they aren't contributing in their rookie year they are automatically a scrub or worthless? Sometimes players take time to adjust and find their calling card in the NBA. At least Rozier is showing improvement this year (per36 through 6 summer league games):

54% FG% / 45% 3PA% / 84% FT% / 24.7 PPG / 6.5 RPG / 4.3 APG / 1.8 SPG / 0.2 BPG / 2.7 TOPG

 

[ElRey]

I feel like I'm reading in the twilight zone lmao...
- Rudy Gay is worth more than the number 3 overall pick in this years draft?! - Really?! - Just from a logical stand point when it comes to value in NBA trades, in what world is Rudy Gay worth a top 3 pick in any draft. (Dont answer with your opinion of jaylen brown)

Overvaluation of youth? Rozier averaged 1 pt. 1 RB. 1 ast. Jaylen Brown hasn't played a min in the nba. Lol
- So you guys wouldn't trade Rudy Gay for Ben Simmons? Or Brandon Ingram? Because u know, they've never scored a point or played a min in the NBA.

And I swear, with some ppls reactions, you would think there would be no more franchise if Demarcus Cousins gets traded.

Once a top 3 pick becomes a player, then you don't care where that player is picked. You evaluate the PLAYER, not the pick number. Anthony Bennet was #1 pick overall, anybody wants him? If it's Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, then I'd rather keep Gay who I already know can play in the NBA. From watching Jaylen brown in the summer league, he looks raw as hell and raises the same concerns about him ie shooting, bad decisions, cannot create.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

My takeaway from this exchange is that @twslam07 has a really high opinion of Marcus Smart.

 

[twslam07]

My takeaway from this exchange is that @twslam07 has a non-biased opinion of Marcus Smart.

Fixed it for you

 

[twslam07]

Once a top 3 pick becomes a player, then you don't care where that player is picked. You evaluate the PLAYER, not the pick number. Anthony Bennet was #1 pick overall, anybody wants him? If it's Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, then I'd rather keep Gay who I already know can play in the NBA. From watching Jaylen brown in the summer league, he looks raw as hell and raises the same concerns about him ie shooting, bad decisions, cannot create.

There's no question we would be winning the value side of the trade, but it's not the type of trade we should be looking at. We need to be competitive next year so a Gay/Brown swap is not a good idea. If we weren't so keen on having to show Cousins we're a competitive team then yeah you take the value and swap Gay for Brown.

But again, Boston is not even picking up the phone on that one so it's moot...

 

[206Fan]

Once a top 3 pick becomes a player, then you don't care where that player is picked. You evaluate the PLAYER, not the pick number. Anthony Bennet was #1 pick overall, anybody wants him? If it's Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, then I'd rather keep Gay who I already know can play in the NBA. From watching Jaylen brown in the summer league, he looks raw as hell and raises the same concerns about him ie shooting, bad decisions, cannot create.

Here's the thing I don't understand at all. If people here really thought Rudy Gay was worth Jaylen Brown and more... why did the Kings not trade him for the 3rd overall pick at the draft? Did the Celtics all of a sudden get buyers remorse? HIGHLY doubt it.

So if people really think Rudy Gay=Jaylen Brown... why were the Kings not able to straight up trade the 3rd overall pick for Gay?

Maybe because Gay's value isn't that high...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Fixed it for you

The notion of Rudy Gay not being enough to net Marcus Smart in a straight up trade being 'non-biased' does not qualify as "fixed."

 

[CelticsFan]

Once a top 3 pick becomes a player, then you don't care where that player is picked. You evaluate the PLAYER, not the pick number. Anthony Bennet was #1 pick overall, anybody wants him? If it's Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, then I'd rather keep Gay who I already know can play in the NBA. From watching Jaylen brown in the summer league, he looks raw as hell and raises the same concerns about him ie shooting, bad decisions, cannot create.

So if everyone thinks Gay will only be traded for a player better then him today who's the target? Draymond Green? Kyle Lowry, Conley, Westbrook? What player can Sac get for Gay (in the last year of his deal)? Not that the Celtics would give up Brown for Gay but how foolish would Sac look batteling for the 10th or 11th seed while seeing Gay walk for nothing in the offseason when they could have got Brown.

 

[twslam07]

The notion of Rudy Gay not being enough to net Marcus Smart in a straight up trade being 'non-biased' does not qualify as "fixed."

Sure it does because that's reality.

 

[CelticsFan]

Once a top 3 pick becomes a player, then you don't care where that player is picked. You evaluate the PLAYER, not the pick number. Anthony Bennet was #1 pick overall, anybody wants him? If it's Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, then I'd rather keep Gay who I already know can play in the NBA

So to your point WCS trade value would be equal to a NBA role player? I disagree but that's the point you're making

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Sure it does because that's reality.

You appear to be confusing reality with tautology.

 

[twslam07]

You appear to be confusing reality with tautology.

Not at all

 

[ElRey]

So if everyone thinks Gay will only be traded for a player better then him today who's the target? Draymond Green? Kyle Lowry, Conley, Westbrook? What player can Sac get for Gay (in the last year of his deal)? Not that the Celtics would give up Brown for Gay but how foolish would Sac look batteling for the 10th or 11th see while seeing Gay walk for nothing in the offseason when they could have got Brown.

Uhhh who said Gay has to be traded for a player BETTER than him? Where did I say that ???? Kings fans just saying that it is not the type of trade the Kings are currently looking for . The organization wants to win now , not rebuild for the future . If they want to rebuild , then yes they would do that trade for Brown, who right now is all potential .

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

FYI, this is the list of players drafted with the third pick since Rudy Gay was drafted (2006):

2006: Adam Morrison
2007: Al Horford
2008: OJ Mayo
2009: James Harden
2010: Derrick Favors
2011: Enes Kanter
2012: Bradley Beal
2013: Otto Porter
2014: Joel EMbiid
2015: Jahlil Okafor
2016: Jaylen Brown

I am curious as to how many people on that list Kings Fans actually don't think that Rudy Gay is worth in a trade?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Not at all

In that case, I'd take it as a kindness if you can defend that statement: what's your justification for Gay not being worth Smart in a straight-up trade?

 

[CelticsFan]

FYI, this is the list of players drafted with the third pick since Rudy Gay was drafted (2006):

2006: Adam Morrison
2007: Al Horford
2008: OJ Mayo
2009: James Harden
2010: Derrick Favors
2011: Enes Kanter
2012: Bradley Beal
2013: Otto Porter
2014: Joel EMbiid
2015: Jahlil Okafor
2016: Jaylen Brown

I am curious as to how many people on that list Kings Fans actually don't think that Rudy Gay is worth in a trade?

I'll take everyone besides Morrison and Mayo

 

[ElRey]

FYI, this is the list of players drafted with the third pick since Rudy Gay was drafted (2006):

2006: Adam Morrison
2007: Al Horford
2008: OJ Mayo
2009: James Harden
2010: Derrick Favors
2011: Enes Kanter
2012: Bradley Beal
2013: Otto Porter
2014: Joel EMbiid
2015: Jahlil Okafor
2016: Jaylen Brown

I am curious as to how many people on that list Kings Fans actually don't think that Rudy Gay is worth in a trade?

Exactly , some excellent players but also a bunch of doodoo players . Who gives a crap where a player was picked ? You evaluate the player not their pick location. Ben Mclemore was the #7 pick , so he's worth a lot right ? Right ?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'll take everyone besides Morrison and Mayo

That's interesting.

 

[206Fan]

FYI, this is the list of players drafted with the third pick since Rudy Gay was drafted (2006):

2006: Adam Morrison
2007: Al Horford
2008: OJ Mayo
2009: James Harden
2010: Derrick Favors
2011: Enes Kanter
2012: Bradley Beal
2013: Otto Porter
2014: Joel EMbiid
2015: Jahlil Okafor
2016: Jaylen Brown

I am curious as to how many people on that list Kings Fans actually don't think that Rudy Gay is worth in a trade?

The thing I don't understand is that if people actually thought the Celtics would want to trade Gay for Brown... why did they not just trade us the 3rd overall pick? I'm fascinated..

 

[ElRey]

So to your point WCS trade value would be equal to a NBA role player? I disagree but that's the point you're making

???? Again why does it matter where a guy was picked ?

 

[206Fan]

???? Again why does it matter where a guy was picked ?

Because. If you truly believe the Celtics would even take Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, why did they not trade us the draft pick on draft day? It makes no sense for them.... 0. If they wanted Gay, they could've had him on June 23rd.

 

[twslam07]

In that case, I'd take it as a kindness if you can defend that statement: what's your justification for Gay not being worth Smart in a straight-up trade?

Well there's the whole potential argument. Smart is 22 & Gay is 30 (at the start of next season). Smart still has 3-5 years until he hits his prime. Gay is obviously the player he is and not much is going to change that at this point in his career while Smart still has many years to get better.

Then there's the whole contract argument. Gay is an expiring (will definitely opt out unless he has a very bad injury this year) and Smart can be retained for 6-7 more years if we'd like. That's a huge difference in value right there. There's no guarantee Gay is going to be back after this season and with reports hinting at him wanting to be moved/okay with being moved, that tells me that there is a decent chance he walks next year (during a year when almost every team will have cap space).

Now do I think Smart is better than Gay today? No, I don't, but that's not how trades are determined. In our case, a Smart for Gay or a Brown for Gay is not the type of trade we should be looking at. We should be looking at a trade that brings back a player that helps improve the team considering our #1 priority is to keep Cousins for as long as we can (and being competitive next year helps us do that).

 

[upinsmoke]

The thing I don't understand is that if people actually thought the Celtics would want to trade Gay for Brown... why did they not just trade us the 3rd overall pick? I'm fascinated..

We'll they dont. Boston doesn't need a Rudy Gay type player. LAC does and if anything goes down it will be a 3 team deal that likely doesn't even involve Boston.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The thing I don't understand is that if people actually thought the Celtics would want to trade Gay for Brown... why did they not just trade us the 3rd overall pick? I'm fascinated..

I feel like the answer to that question is subject to interpretation: my interpretation, based on the fact that we don't appear to be the only team that Boston made a trade offer to, is that Danny Ainge has a higher opinion of the value of his assets than the other twenty-nine GM's do.

Here at KingsFans.com, I suspect that there is a combination of Rudy Gay Fatigue Syndrome (RGFS) and Kings Fans' continuing collective fascination with the Possibility of Potential.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well there's the whole potential argument. Smart is 22 & Gay is 30 (at the start of next season). Smart still has 3-5 years until he hits his prime. Gay is obviously the player he is and not much is going to change that at this point in his career while Smart still has many years to get better.

Even if I accept the premise, which I'm not sure I do, I have a hard time projecting Peak!Smart as being better than Peak!Gay. I'm not even sure that Peak!Smart will be as good.

Then there's the whole contract argument. Gay is an expiring (will definitely opt out unless he has a very bad injury this year) and Smart can be retained for 6-7 more years if we'd like.

That's not exactly true: whether or not it could happen is contingent on a set of circumstances that are not actually within the team's control.