Free Agency

[Amit149]

This "Seth Curry is a good defender" myth can't die soon enough. No, he's not. He plays hard on that end, but his physical tools are very limited, and because of it his D is as well.

A quick note about that- Curry has limited tools that hurt him when defending wings, but he was very good at defending PG's.

He held opposing PG's to a 9.8 PER and an eFG% of 43.9 which is outstanding (for reference Temple held opposing PG's to 12.2 PER, which is also good).
These numbers changes dramatically when he had to defend SG's who he held to 15.7 PER and eFG of 53.5%.

So I think he can do a very good job against PG but struggles defending wings.

 

[Letsgokings13]

"The Kings are continuing to discuss trades involving Koufos, McLemore and small forward Rudy Gay, who is miserable and wants out."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article87881657.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Gilles]

A quick note about that- Curry has limited tools that hurt him when defending wings, but he was very good at defending PG's.

He held opposing PG's to a 9.8 PER and an eFG% of 43.9 which is outstanding (for reference Temple held opposing PG's to 12.2 PER, which is also good).
These numbers changes dramatically when he had to defend SG's who he held to 15.7 PER and eFG of 53.5%.

So I think he can do a very good job against PG but struggles defending wings.

It's called small sample size in the spring, plus playing bench minutes, so guys, he was facing, generally had pretty low PER to begin with.
Rubio has 18.2 counterpart PER, G.Hill - 17.3, Conley - 17.1, Beverley - 15.8, Wall - 16.1. What a bunch of scrubs!

 

[Amit149]

It's called small sample size in the spring, plus playing bench minutes, so guys, he was facing, generally had pretty low PER to begin with.
Rubio has 18.2 counterpart PER, G.Hill - 17.3, Conley - 17.1, Beverley - 15.8, Wall - 16.1. What a bunch of scrubs!

So me bringing up the difference between him defending PG's and SG's statistically is a sample size issue- but you bringing up his overall defended precentage results is not because of... reasons.

And of course it's going to be better because of playing against bench guys- did I ever said otherwise? but it's still very good, Temple was mostly playing backups aswell when he defended PG's and had a worse (still good) result.

If you are going to argue that based on the stats his defense was bad, it's hard for me to understand how you can criticize other stats just cause they provide nuance and points in a different direction.

 

[CelticsFan]

Who would


As you said goal is to make progress. I see progress on a number of front which Funky has illustrated. You and some other vocal fans dont see progress, or at least too little....

I think you misread the post. I said Playoffs not progress. Kings need to show Boogie they are a legit place to try and win otherwise the clock starts now on getting what you can for him. It would be a shame to let him walk in two years and get nothing in return for him. OKC just did it with Durant but they had a real shot at resigning him as well as a real shot at winning last season.

 

[206Fan]

A quick note about that- Curry has limited tools that hurt him when defending wings, but he was very good at defending PG's.

He held opposing PG's to a 9.8 PER and an eFG% of 43.9 which is outstanding (for reference Temple held opposing PG's to 12.2 PER, which is also good).
These numbers changes dramatically when he had to defend SG's who he held to 15.7 PER and eFG of 53.5%.

So I think he can do a very good job against PG but struggles defending wings.

I think Curry is an overall below average defender. However, he does a much better jobs on PGs than SGs. A lot of his defense comes from his gritty and pesky play. He can put pressure on the ball handler without fouling. He's disciplined, and that's why he looked good through the eye tests. He wasn't scared to put a body on the opposing PG. Seth's problem is that he's light, short, unathletic, and slow.

Whether anyone likes it or not, I think it's pretty clear that Ben is our best perimeter defender. Right now, he's about an overall average defender. His biggest problem is that he gets lost at times. Ben has a decent build and he's a great athlete. I think if anything, hopefully we'll be able to see Joerger tap into Ben's defensive potential like Malone did. It's looking a bit unlikely since we brought in Afflalo. Seems like Ben will come off the bench, and is probably gone after this year.

"The Kings are continuing to discuss trades involving Koufos, McLemore and small forward Rudy Gay, who is miserable and wants out."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article87881657.html#storylink=cpy

I don't blame Gay.
Here are teams who would probably be interested in him: Rockets, Clippers, Pelicans, OKC, Bulls, Pacers, Heat, and Wizards.

Out of those teams, only the Rockets, Pelicans, Bulls, and Wizards would have decent assets to trade.

Rockets: Beverly+Brewer. I would say no to this trade. Beverly is a fringe starting PG who's 3&D. Might be good for Cuz, but our 2nd option would be Afflalo...that's terrible. He could've even crack it as NYK's 3rd option. Brewer is washed up now and he provides nothing positive except "vet experience". I don't know that they'd be willing to pony up Ariza.

Pelicans: Tyreke+Pondexter. This is probably a very good trade for us. Tyreke can play PG here, while DC plays SG on offense. Pondexter was a 3&D player before his injury, and he'd fit great alongside Cousins. The Pacers just added Hill, but they lost a ton of scoring in Gordon/Anderson. I think they need a real #2 option alongside AD.

Bulls: McDermott+Portis+Calderon. This isn't the best trade, but we get young players back while fixing the hole at PG.

Wizards: Morris+Oubre. Buyers remorse? I think this is another trade to think about. Morris has 3 years left on a very good contract. If things don't work out with Morris, we get a young SF in Kelly Oubre.

 

[Iced Espresso]

"The Kings are continuing to discuss trades involving Koufos, McLemore and small forward Rudy Gay, who is miserable and wants out."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article87881657.html#storylink=cpy

How does Voison know Rudy is miserable?

 

[Gilles]

So me bringing up the difference between him defending PG's and SG's statistically is a sample size issue- but you bringing up his overall defended precentage results is not because of... reasons.

And of course it's going to be better because of playing against bench guys- did I ever said otherwise? but it's still very good, Temple was mostly playing backups aswell when he defended PG's and had a worse (still good) result.

If you are going to argue that based on the stats his defense was bad, it's hard for me to understand how you can criticize other stats just cause they provide nuance and points in a different direction.

Seth Curry spent less than 500 possessions without Collison and Rondo. Temple's 170 possessions' sample at PG is even more laughable.

 

[Amit149]

Seth Curry spent less than 500 possessions without Collison and Rondo. Temple's 170 possessions' sample at PG is even more laughable.

Just to be clear by the numbers PG's was the position Temple defended most efficiently so it's not like I chose his bad position or anything...

Curry played about 40% of the time at PG And your argument about sample size here is pretty disingenuous.
You can't go around claiming someone's defense is bad based on his defended FG% and than go the other way when shown that he kept the PG's he defended at a low eFG% and PER.
You brought up the stats and claimed his defense is a myth based on them.
If we exclude the numbers all we have left is the eye test and for me he was just fine defending PG's and had trouble against most wings, you might disagree but it doesn't make it objective truth.

 

[Gilles]

Just to be clear by the numbers PG's was the position Temple defended most efficiently so it's not like I chose his bad position or anything...

Curry played about 40% of the time at PG And your argument about sample size here is pretty disingenuous.
You can't go around claiming someone's defense is bad based on his defended FG% and than go the other way when shown that he kept the PG's he defended at a low eFG% and PER.
You brought up the stats and claimed his defense is a myth based on them.
If we exclude the numbers all we have left is the eye test and for me he was just fine defending PG's and had trouble against most wings, you might disagree but it doesn't make it objective truth.

Care to show me, where I wrote anything about stats, regarding Seth?
If you want to believe in something, I certainly can't stop you.

 

[Amit149]

Care to show me, where I wrote anything about stats, regarding Seth?
If you want to believe in something, I certainly can't stop you.

I checked and you're right, sorry for that.
I reffered to this post by funky:

Opponents shot better than average at all distances against Curry and either 10% or 11% better than average from three. He gives a lot of effort on that end but the results weren't great.

I accidently thought that was you, should've quoted that instead.

 

[Bricklayer]

Now is when it gets a little bit too bad we blew all our cap space, as Chicago may now be giving away good players to try to clear room for Wade.

 

[ParniValjak]

I know there's another thread on the subject so this will be my last post on the issue, but unless Collison pleads guilty or charges are dropped before the season, we won't know. Trials are of course rare these days, so it's likely he either pleads or charges are dropped, but it's not certain.

So we should rush into trading for a starting PG before we find out either way?

C'mon now! Thankfully the front office seems to be displaying a lot more patience than the fans. We have PLENTY of time to work out what we can do with the PG dilemma. Wasn't DC's date set for 11th July? That's like less than a week away. Let's see what happens over the next couple of weeks before ringing alarm bells.

 

[ParniValjak]

lol..ok. So because I am not jumping for joy over Vlade's mediocre signings that makes me a troll? LOL wow

Yes because your suggested signings do not make us better at all and they remove any cap flexibility that we are obviously after.

 

[Sac.1989]

How does Voison know Rudy is miserable?

exactly

he aint miserable

rudys dam well fine there is no evidence what so ever, hes worked with DJ before - lifes good for Rudayus

 

[Bricklayer]

How does Voison know Rudy is miserable?

Entirely possible he was one of her sources/complainers last year.

 

[ockingsfan]

"The Kings are continuing to discuss trades involving Koufos, McLemore and small forward Rudy Gay, who is miserable and wants out."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article87881657.html#storylink=cpy

First off, look at the Author of the article and I would take this with a grain of salt.

Second, I fully think Vlade is trying to trade Gay for a starting Point Guard. Especially since Gay can opt out next summer. Better to trade him now than to lose him next summer for nothing.

 

[Blob]

Now is when it gets a little bit too bad we blew all our cap space, as Chicago may now be giving away good players to try to clear room for Wade.

Maybe could have had Jose Calderon for FREE, maybe taken him into cap space AND removed that 1st round obligation in 2017! But hey at least we have 36 year old Matt Barnes coming off a 38% shooting season and who's "tough" while launching bricks and being old and whatever else he does....



When the Lakers signed Ron Artest, excuse me, World Metta Peace, I bet the reaction on those Laker boards was similar to the percentage of fans (about 30-40%) who had favorable reaction when Barnes was signed. But when he gets beat repeatedly on perimeter and schooled in the post because his reaction time and athleticism is just not what it once was, combined with sub 40% shooting, the hypothetical toughness and grit he was brought into provide will give way to the reality of a washed up player. I await to be proven wrong.

exactly

he aint miserable

rudys dam well fine there is no evidence what so ever, hes worked with DJ before - lifes good for Rudayus

Rudy is the quintessential of cool on the court. Boogie is the opposite of that. You can see how their personalities would clash on the court even if they are amenable off the floor. If Rudy is "miserable" lets say at least in terms of professional prospects with this collection of players, it would explain the momentous difficulty we had securing our top FA targets (Lee, Anderson). Players talk. Agents talk. If the word is out around the league Boogie as a teammate will make you miserable, players are not making this destination a priority unless there are slim pickings elsewhere. And the players we signed had slim pickings!

And if the dismissal of Karl was not enough to brighten Rudy's outlook then the one constant is Boogie. If the word is out you don't want him as a teammate, then the rebuild via free agency becomes an impossibility. Trades and the draft become our only recourse until (1) we start winning (2) Boogie's reputation changes (3) we trade him. That said, I still am holding out hope we can do some sort of S&T with Rudy and Ben (or Koufos) to POR for Crabbe (and other assets).

Can't we sign Crabbe to a $16M per year deal or whatever and then create room for him by sending Rudy to POR? I don't know how it works but if he is miserable he needs to be accommodated with a one way ticket out of town. Obviously we cannot afford to give him away but we don't need that kind of negativity when we are already dealing with a talent deficit.

 

[New Era]

"The Kings are continuing to discuss trades involving Koufos, McLemore and small forward Rudy Gay, who is miserable and wants out."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article87881657.html#storylink=cpy

Screw Rudy Gay. Maybe if he played with some heart and passion his team would be in better shape. This has pretty much been the story with him his entire career.

 

[upinsmoke]

Screw Rudy Gay. Maybe if he played with some heart and passion his team would be in better shape. This has pretty much been the story with him his entire career.

While it is fair to question Rudy's focus and heart please keep in mind where this is coming from.

 

[steelevt]

Galloway to the Pelicans. Geez how many guards are they gonna have? It's like the opposite of what Kings are going with our C/pf

 

[Entity]

Galloway to the Pelicans. Geez how many guards are they gonna have? It's like the opposite of what Kings are going with our C/pf

It's almost like they are gearing up for a trade

 

[Blob]

It's almost like they are gearing up for a trade

Are you suggesting Rudy for Tyreke trade coming down the pike? I have mixed feelings about that because Tyreke has barely improved since his rookie season but based on the direction this team is going...more defense with need in the backcourt, I think it would be prudent. Also Tyreke is an expiring.

 

[Blob]

WOJ BOMB

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojVerticalNBA 31s31 seconds ago
Dwyane Wade has informed the Bulls he plans to sign a deal with them, sources tell @TheVertical. Bulls sending out contracts now.

 

[funkykingston]

WOJ BOMB

Rondo, Wade & Butler?

I have a feeling Chicago is going to be awful.

 

[Blob]

Rondo, Wade & Butler?

I have a feeling Chicago is going to be awful.

Why? Wade is an awesome player when healthy, one of the few guards post-30 of his size who can still flat out ball when he wants to. Butler is fantastic when healthy....and Rondo has another chance to rehabilitate his reputation. And unlike SAC he has more shooters at his disposal. They are not world-beaters but that's a 45 win team.

 

[steelevt]

It's almost like they are gearing up for a trade

Better start up that shower

 

[roasthawg]

It's almost like they are gearing up for a trade

Probably already had the framework for one in place for awhile now. I'm expecting/hoping it's announced tomorrow after everyone signs.

 

[funkykingston]

Why? Wade is an awesome player when healthy, one of the few guards post-30 of his size who can still flat out ball when he wants to. Butler is fantastic when healthy....and Rondo has another chance to rehabilitate his reputation. And unlike SAC he has more shooters at his disposal. They are not world-beaters but that's a 45 win team.

Because they have three ball dominant guards who don't compliment each other well at all, none of whom is a great outside shooter while playing for a coach whose offensive system none of them really fit.

Wade turns 35 in January by the way and he's an old 35 considering all the minutes he's logged and all the playoff games he's played in.

They won't be one of the worst teams in the league but they will be a mish-mash with apparently no plan for the future. It's a fantasy basketball roster, not a well constructed team.

I just have no idea what the Bulls are doing and I'm not sure they know either. Considering their current decision making maybe we could convince them they need a SF instead of two SGs and send Rudy their way. They can send Butler and Calderon to the Wolves and we'll take Kris Dunn. No competent front office would even consider that but I'm not sure they're competent.

 

[steelevt]

WOJ BOMB

Too bad they're only trying to unload dunleavy and Calderon