2016 NBA Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
- Start date
It will be interesting to revisit this in about a year or two. It's either going to be a boom or a bust move but there is a lot to work with. We got our youth, now we need to get our veterans.
Richardson has a great potential to at least be a good 3 and D wing.
Skal has some real potential as a stretch 4 but will take time.
Papagiannis is an interesting one. Great size and has some potential. Might play some minutes next season.
Cousins not sure about.
Bogdanović will be a pretty good get for us when he comes over. Plays with fire and is clutch. Not a great athlete but a smart player.
To me Chriss and Skal are very similar types of players with similar potential and weaknesses. We really fleeced PHX in that trade.
Richardson has a great potential to at least be a good 3 and D wing.
Skal has some real potential as a stretch 4 but will take time.
Papagiannis is an interesting one. Great size and has some potential. Might play some minutes next season.
Cousins not sure about.
Bogdanović will be a pretty good get for us when he comes over. Plays with fire and is clutch. Not a great athlete but a smart player.
To me Chriss and Skal are very similar types of players with similar potential and weaknesses. We really fleeced PHX in that trade.
We had a logjam at the 4 a couple years back that took us giving up assets to unload and now it seems we have created that same sort of logjam at Center where by the way we have the best Center in the league. Vlade has drafted or signed 4 centers to go behind a center who can already play 35-37 mins per game!! Thats terrible roster balance all over again!!
Yes we have capspace but this is the worst possible year to have it because everyone does. Not to mention the thin free agent crop that everyone will be chomping at the bit to get a hold of. It will take some huge overpays (even larger than normal years) to get any free agent to Sacramento.
I don't think there will be a trade with any of the young centers as even decent centers barely fetch anything of value in trades these days. Look at philly they cant get even 1 decent offer for Noel/Okafor who are proven bigs in this league. If you look at the past five finals the winner had no center on the court! Guards and Wings (versatile players) are at a premium these days and you take your chances on developing a raw one in a draft like this. I would have even been fine with keeping Chriss.
This isn't the 80s or 90s stiff big men even developed are not worth much anymore. Or maybe im wrong and Vivek was following Lacobs comments yesterday about how teams need to be looking at the next trend. Get ready for Tall Ball everyone playing 5 7 footers passing around the top of defenses until we get a layup, NBA 4.0!!
This has to be a precursor to a potential DMC trade down the road, not in the offseason but if we get off to another slow start I feel like Vlade wont hesitate this time and pull the trigger to begin an all out rebuild. We might never get to see a kings team with adequate guard and wing play surrounding Big Cuz
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Yes we have capspace but this is the worst possible year to have it because everyone does. Not to mention the thin free agent crop that everyone will be chomping at the bit to get a hold of. It will take some huge overpays (even larger than normal years) to get any free agent to Sacramento.
I don't think there will be a trade with any of the young centers as even decent centers barely fetch anything of value in trades these days. Look at philly they cant get even 1 decent offer for Noel/Okafor who are proven bigs in this league. If you look at the past five finals the winner had no center on the court! Guards and Wings (versatile players) are at a premium these days and you take your chances on developing a raw one in a draft like this. I would have even been fine with keeping Chriss.
This isn't the 80s or 90s stiff big men even developed are not worth much anymore. Or maybe im wrong and Vivek was following Lacobs comments yesterday about how teams need to be looking at the next trend. Get ready for Tall Ball everyone playing 5 7 footers passing around the top of defenses until we get a layup, NBA 4.0!!
This has to be a precursor to a potential DMC trade down the road, not in the offseason but if we get off to another slow start I feel like Vlade wont hesitate this time and pull the trigger to begin an all out rebuild. We might never get to see a kings team with adequate guard and wing play surrounding Big Cuz
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Correct, we got our youth, now to get our vets in place through trade and FA. Really, really smart drafting. I trust Vlade and company in talent evaluation. Baldwin wasn't worth the 13 in his opinion....I'm going with that.
Besides, did we really want to trust our season to a rookie PG for 20 minutes a game......not really. Can't wait to see how the backcourt gets addressed with vets. Even if we get back Rondo and Curry, this is looking promising. Trade Koufos for a vet SG. Rookies develop playing minimal minutes. Very nice.
Besides, did we really want to trust our season to a rookie PG for 20 minutes a game......not really. Can't wait to see how the backcourt gets addressed with vets. Even if we get back Rondo and Curry, this is looking promising. Trade Koufos for a vet SG. Rookies develop playing minimal minutes. Very nice.
It's amazing how quickly the narrative is shaped here.
1. All of the sudden it's- "he turned Chriss into Papa, Richardson and Skal":
Richardson was brought up in another trade, you can call it a minor detail but it's something that regularly happens here when talking about trades we made.
And it's not like that was our only option- people are now pretending to be stoked about what we got when in real time they were all crossing their fingers for Baldwin, Luwawu and Murray (and we could have picked all of them).
2. "Everyone who doesn't like (or like me- just doesn't understand the logic behind it) this draft is against Vlade":
Go back and look at the start of the draft. I think pretty much everyone raved about the trades made- I love the Marco trade and I liked trading 8 for 13, 28, future 2nd and Bogdanovic- I still really like the trades. I just don't understand the logic of what we did with the picks we got, there is no anti-Vlade agenda here.
3. "If we add Conley and Lee it will be a playoff team":
Maybe, but that maybe didn't changed one bit because of the draft- look at the roster Cykings posted- it might be a playoff team, but no one we got in this draft is going to be a contributer to that, if you think that team is a playoff team you would have thought the same if we brought Conley and Lee with no draft picks- how does it go hand-in-hand with our win-now mode?
4. "You complained about giving assets last year so you can't complain about what we do know":
Here's the thing, if you choose a plan just stay with it or change completely- you can't have it both ways.
I (and many others) didn't like that we gave up future assets for short-term gain, but once we did you have to commit to it- you can't say you are all-in and make moves for it and than draft projects the next year, it's counter-productive.
The only way it will make some sense is if we are going for a full rebuild- but there are no indications we are going to do that (and I'm not sure it will be a good move, especially considering we don't have control over our own pick).
5. "Papagiannis and Skal are picks for the future":
Look, for all I know maybe Papagiannis has the potential to be better than Domantas Sabonis. Maybe he's ceiling is as high as Arvydas. I have no idea- but how are we going to develop him to be that guy? and even if he will pan out- where is he going to play? especially since most of you are talking about him not getting much playing time next year since we are in "win-now" mode, prospects don't turn into star player without getting playing time.
If your plans are that DMC is our franchise player where does Papa fit in?
Let's look at 3 years for now in an optimistic perspective- we still have DMC and Papa is turning into a nice center, his minutes will still be limited as a backup to the best center in the league- so even in our optimistic scenario we'll have to either trade him or DMC in the future.
And Skal have the exact same problem- he is a PF/C when our prized young player in WCS plays the exact same position- someone said "we are not drafting for the Kings we are drafting for the bighorns"- it was a joke but it's very likely atleast one of this guys will spend a lot of time there.
Even if you ignore our track-record in developing young projects, we just don't have a space for them behind DMC and WCS.
I posted it once and I'll repeat- we could have had that without any additions:
PG: DC/Baldwin (Murray)
SG: Luwawu/Ben/Murray
SF:Gay/Casspi/Butler (Luwawu)
PF: WCS/Casspi
C: DMC/KK (WCS)
That's a balanced roster with potential all around, now we have this:
PG: DC
SG: Ben/Richardson
SF:Gay/Casspi/Butler (Richardson)
PF: WCS/Casspi/Skal
C: DMC/KK/Papagiannis (WCS/Skal)
Now if anybody thinks this is the better roster for a win-now mentality team I'd love to hear your reasoning...
1. All of the sudden it's- "he turned Chriss into Papa, Richardson and Skal":
Richardson was brought up in another trade, you can call it a minor detail but it's something that regularly happens here when talking about trades we made.
And it's not like that was our only option- people are now pretending to be stoked about what we got when in real time they were all crossing their fingers for Baldwin, Luwawu and Murray (and we could have picked all of them).
2. "Everyone who doesn't like (or like me- just doesn't understand the logic behind it) this draft is against Vlade":
Go back and look at the start of the draft. I think pretty much everyone raved about the trades made- I love the Marco trade and I liked trading 8 for 13, 28, future 2nd and Bogdanovic- I still really like the trades. I just don't understand the logic of what we did with the picks we got, there is no anti-Vlade agenda here.
3. "If we add Conley and Lee it will be a playoff team":
Maybe, but that maybe didn't changed one bit because of the draft- look at the roster Cykings posted- it might be a playoff team, but no one we got in this draft is going to be a contributer to that, if you think that team is a playoff team you would have thought the same if we brought Conley and Lee with no draft picks- how does it go hand-in-hand with our win-now mode?
4. "You complained about giving assets last year so you can't complain about what we do know":
Here's the thing, if you choose a plan just stay with it or change completely- you can't have it both ways.
I (and many others) didn't like that we gave up future assets for short-term gain, but once we did you have to commit to it- you can't say you are all-in and make moves for it and than draft projects the next year, it's counter-productive.
The only way it will make some sense is if we are going for a full rebuild- but there are no indications we are going to do that (and I'm not sure it will be a good move, especially considering we don't have control over our own pick).
5. "Papagiannis and Skal are picks for the future":
Look, for all I know maybe Papagiannis has the potential to be better than Domantas Sabonis. Maybe he's ceiling is as high as Arvydas. I have no idea- but how are we going to develop him to be that guy? and even if he will pan out- where is he going to play? especially since most of you are talking about him not getting much playing time next year since we are in "win-now" mode, prospects don't turn into star player without getting playing time.
If your plans are that DMC is our franchise player where does Papa fit in?
Let's look at 3 years for now in an optimistic perspective- we still have DMC and Papa is turning into a nice center, his minutes will still be limited as a backup to the best center in the league- so even in our optimistic scenario we'll have to either trade him or DMC in the future.
And Skal have the exact same problem- he is a PF/C when our prized young player in WCS plays the exact same position- someone said "we are not drafting for the Kings we are drafting for the bighorns"- it was a joke but it's very likely atleast one of this guys will spend a lot of time there.
Even if you ignore our track-record in developing young projects, we just don't have a space for them behind DMC and WCS.
I posted it once and I'll repeat- we could have had that without any additions:
PG: DC/Baldwin (Murray)
SG: Luwawu/Ben/Murray
SF:Gay/Casspi/Butler (Luwawu)
PF: WCS/Casspi
C: DMC/KK (WCS)
That's a balanced roster with potential all around, now we have this:
PG: DC
SG: Ben/Richardson
SF:Gay/Casspi/Butler (Richardson)
PF: WCS/Casspi/Skal
C: DMC/KK/Papagiannis (WCS/Skal)
Now if anybody thinks this is the better roster for a win-now mentality team I'd love to hear your reasoning...
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PDA as GM......we get Ben and Stauskas. Should have traded down during the Stauskas draft instead of reaching for him. PDA trading IT for nothing, etc, etc
Vlade as GM......trade down when we should have traded down. Trade Bellinelli for the 22 which was amazing. Vlade acquiring assets and building talent base. Now it's on Joerger to win and at the same bring along the rookies at an appropriate pace instead of force feeding them big minutes (Ben and Stauskas)
Vlade as GM......trade down when we should have traded down. Trade Bellinelli for the 22 which was amazing. Vlade acquiring assets and building talent base. Now it's on Joerger to win and at the same bring along the rookies at an appropriate pace instead of force feeding them big minutes (Ben and Stauskas)
My favorite thing about this draft is how badly I hate all the picks.... Makes me think vlade is seeing things in prospects that us amateurs are missing. The only guy I'm relatively excited about is skal... Reminds me of Drummond's story coming out, high ranked recruited big that was misused and underwhelmed big-time his freshmen year.
These other guys look awful to me, at least from an analytics perspective. Hope we get three of them playing in summer league and see something surprising.
These other guys look awful to me, at least from an analytics perspective. Hope we get three of them playing in summer league and see something surprising.
Yeah and let's not forget that every time the Kings fans and analysts have panned a pick it hasn't turned out well since Peja... The guy was drafted two decades ago. For a team that has been riddled with awful draft picks in its history, this doesn't make me feel much better that we panned a pick that turned out well two decades ago. Who took three years to integrate into the NBA.
I have my doubts about Vlade packaging a group of these projects for a vet that can help now. Teams just aren't going to give up a good vet for projects. Maybe Vlade is just doing the best he can with what he has. He had a #8 with a weak draft, a draft that appears to have the character of having plenty of projects, with few that could help a team now. So instead of forcing the issue, he went with the flow and made the most out of it by getting several of these project players. By doing so, he spreads the risk. He can afford to pick three projects, hoping one or two turn into good players.
It's hard to view this draft without wondering how Cousins fits into this picture. At this point, it sure doesn't look like Vlade is interested in mortgaging the future to retain Cousins. From what I've heard from Vlade, he's committed to Cousins, but then he's not committed to Cousins. Committed for this year, maybe not thereafter. So if you have that ambivalent view of your most valuable asset it makes sense to have a two-track approach. On the one hand, he wants to plan for a team with Cousins; on the other he has to plan for a team without Cousins. This group of project players may reflect the latter scenario.
It's hard to view this draft without wondering how Cousins fits into this picture. At this point, it sure doesn't look like Vlade is interested in mortgaging the future to retain Cousins. From what I've heard from Vlade, he's committed to Cousins, but then he's not committed to Cousins. Committed for this year, maybe not thereafter. So if you have that ambivalent view of your most valuable asset it makes sense to have a two-track approach. On the one hand, he wants to plan for a team with Cousins; on the other he has to plan for a team without Cousins. This group of project players may reflect the latter scenario.
K
Overall I give the draft a C but due to the last three picks. Richardson was a great pickup at 22, Skal at 28 is a no brainer (low risk high reward) and Cousins could be a decent PG. Papaginnis is an absolutely terrible pick. Potentially the worst pick in the history of the Kings Franchise. The Kings would have been better off keeping Chriss at the 8th pick and taking Richardson at 22 or Taking Wade Baldwin at 13. If the Kings do either of those this was a successful draft. Some on this board can stay blinded by Vlade's mistakes but this was a HUGE mistake, even Cousins saw it. We basically gave up a potentially solid PF (Chriss) to draft a C who will probably never contribute and a SG that might never come to the US. Epic Fail.
This is an outstanding post. People who are praising this draft as it currently stands are completely ignoring the fact that we're operating on a limited time window with Cousins. And the 2 depth charts above show exactly how we did absolutely nothing to make this team better in the short-term, which is by far the biggest issue our team faces with Cousins contract coming up within the next 2 seasons. This draft has the potential to be an absolute home-run... but we won't get to see it come to fruition before we have to make a decision about Cousins future.
Baldwin, Murray, and Luwawu without a doubt would help us win more games next season, would have filled filling needs, and its not like these 3 guys are devoid of any upside whatsoever.
Baldwin, Murray, and Luwawu without a doubt would help us win more games next season, would have filled filling needs, and its not like these 3 guys are devoid of any upside whatsoever.
And yet, we gave big minutes to Ben and Stauskas because there was no logjam. If these young guys stay here, they learn at an appropriate rate and behind guys who can teach them such as Boogie or Koufos or maybe even WCS. We gave Ben the job and it was probably the worst thing for the kid. Richardson and even I Cousins can be the deep bench guys we can develop. This does fall at the feet of Joerger to develop and does put pressure on Vlade to now address the backcourt with vets. I think it's a good path.
See this is the logic that scares me though. What if we don't sign Rondo? Lee will have other suitors and last year, guys took less money to play elsewhere. We're gambling on the fact that we think we can sign some free agents to fill our positions of need, but what if guys simply don't want to come here? I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic on the draft, but it's a little hard without knowing what we're going to do in free agency.
100% this.
Sometimes it seems to me like there's this irrefutable need to defend every move by the Kings front office and its mind boggling.
Yes fantastic move getting rid of Bellis contract and landing multiple picks moving down.
However, to defend the pick of Papa is just blind faith at best. WAS he the BPA on the board? lol no. Not on ANYONES board. Can he be the next coming of Vlade? Yeah. He can. Well let me correct myself and say that he better be. Because we may need a replacement for cousins if we can't win this year. I mean - why would cousins want to resign here? Is there anything here that he can't get more of somewhere else? Money? Loyalty? Winning?
It's a good thing we met all of our needs in this draft. Oh wait.. We didn't. Did we meet any? I mean - why do we have Kosta? That was a great signing last year. Pretty useless now. Good thing we met our guard needs. Oh wait.. We didn't. Malachi may be even more raw than Ben and Nik were.
Well it's a good thing that we can still rely on free agency to pull this thing together.
Oh wait.. Why in the crap would Mike Conley EVER come here? Because of coach? That is the absolute only reason and when San Antonio and other much more stable, winning teams offer Conley money and a chance for a title and stability, there's no way we land Conley.
Role players like Courtney Lee are our best bet and even that's a pipe-dream. Role players like Lee are going to be offered to fill holes on playoff teams.
Once again, kings fans are left with more questions than answers and that is NOT what you want when you're trying to keep your once-in-a-lifetime talent.
Sometimes it seems to me like there's this irrefutable need to defend every move by the Kings front office and its mind boggling.
Yes fantastic move getting rid of Bellis contract and landing multiple picks moving down.
However, to defend the pick of Papa is just blind faith at best. WAS he the BPA on the board? lol no. Not on ANYONES board. Can he be the next coming of Vlade? Yeah. He can. Well let me correct myself and say that he better be. Because we may need a replacement for cousins if we can't win this year. I mean - why would cousins want to resign here? Is there anything here that he can't get more of somewhere else? Money? Loyalty? Winning?
It's a good thing we met all of our needs in this draft. Oh wait.. We didn't. Did we meet any? I mean - why do we have Kosta? That was a great signing last year. Pretty useless now. Good thing we met our guard needs. Oh wait.. We didn't. Malachi may be even more raw than Ben and Nik were.
Well it's a good thing that we can still rely on free agency to pull this thing together.
Oh wait.. Why in the crap would Mike Conley EVER come here? Because of coach? That is the absolute only reason and when San Antonio and other much more stable, winning teams offer Conley money and a chance for a title and stability, there's no way we land Conley.
Role players like Courtney Lee are our best bet and even that's a pipe-dream. Role players like Lee are going to be offered to fill holes on playoff teams.
Once again, kings fans are left with more questions than answers and that is NOT what you want when you're trying to keep your once-in-a-lifetime talent.
I would have been happier with Jaylen Brown or Kris Dunn but the Celtics and TWolves didn't let that happen. I would have also liked Chriss or Luwawu but neither one is likely to contribute next season. If you're looking at this in the short-term, it wouldn't change things much if we picked Luwawu at 8 0r 13. It's highly unlikely that Luwawu is going to be better next season in the NBA than even Ben McLemore will be with 3 years of experience behind him and the consensus around here has been that McLemore isn't good enough to start next season. I had Luwawu ranked as the 4th best prospect in this draft, but realistically he's a long-term project not someone who's going to fill an immediate need. If we're serious about competing for a championship we need to bring in NBA talent this summer. Moving Belinelli (who was god-awful this season, I don't care what his career numbers are) for an additional pick was a positive step in that direction.
So if we'd done what most of us expected and just picked the BPA at #8 we'd have a nice prospect to develop slowly who might turn into a very good player. As it is we have 2 different SG prospects to develop, a huge C who can run the floor, a PF who can block shots and hit the mid-range jumper, and a do-it-all combo guard with decent size for backcourt depth. I think there's a good chance none of these guys are on the Kings next year -- and that's okay. Papagiannis, Richardson, Labissiere, and Cousins should be in the D-League and Bogdanovic won't come over until 2017 at the earliest. For the long-term, this is what we should have been doing as soon as we got control of the Reno Bighorns. We're a small market team who can't attract free agents -- but we can scour the planet for prospects and turn them into NBA players. Draft a lot of young high-ceiling talent and stash them in the D-League where they can work on their game until they're ready to play in the NBA. Don't clog up your 13 man roster with guys who you hope will miraculously be ready from day 1. In that regard, here's what I see our roster looking like right now:
PG....Collison / Curry (RFA)
SG....McLemore
SF....Gay / Casspi / Butler
PF....Cauley-Stein / Moreland
C......Cousins/ Koufos
Isaiah Cousins is the only player we drafted who might warrant a roster spot next year. We don't need to trade Koufos because we just drafted a 19 year old project C. He's not Cousins' replacement either, at least not right now. We probably need a new PG but we weren't going to start a rookie PG regardless except maybe for Dunn. We need more defense at the wing positions but we're talking about playoff ready talent and that's not coming from the draft either. We could still use another big, probably a PF because Cauley-Stein can play both front-court positions. We maybe should think about replacing Rudy Gay with a lower usage player who's a more reliable 3pt threat. These are all problems we were going to have regardless of who we drafted. The only missed opportunity here is that we could have traded some combination of picks and players for veteran talent, but it takes two to tango. No trade is better than a bad trade and maybe that's all other teams were offering us.
It seems like the biggest criticism people have is that Papagiannis was a bad value at #13 because he was ranked much lower and nobody really knows anything about him. That's not cause for alarm though. Draft rankings are always a joke. GS would have been mocked if they drafted Draymond Green in the lottery instead of the second round. For how many years did we all go "huh?" when the Spurs pick was announced and then all of those guys turned into legit NBA players. It means we trust our staff in Reno and Sacramento to develop these guys. That hasn't worked out well before, but this is a new regime. Maybe player development ends up being their strength? We don't know yet. Cauley-Stein looks like he's coming along nicely so far. You can tear this draft apart in 4 years if none of these guys pan out, but it's hard to complain about turning 2 picks into 5 players -- four of them first rounders. And we got a future 2nd round pick as well so possibly 6 players.
So if we'd done what most of us expected and just picked the BPA at #8 we'd have a nice prospect to develop slowly who might turn into a very good player. As it is we have 2 different SG prospects to develop, a huge C who can run the floor, a PF who can block shots and hit the mid-range jumper, and a do-it-all combo guard with decent size for backcourt depth. I think there's a good chance none of these guys are on the Kings next year -- and that's okay. Papagiannis, Richardson, Labissiere, and Cousins should be in the D-League and Bogdanovic won't come over until 2017 at the earliest. For the long-term, this is what we should have been doing as soon as we got control of the Reno Bighorns. We're a small market team who can't attract free agents -- but we can scour the planet for prospects and turn them into NBA players. Draft a lot of young high-ceiling talent and stash them in the D-League where they can work on their game until they're ready to play in the NBA. Don't clog up your 13 man roster with guys who you hope will miraculously be ready from day 1. In that regard, here's what I see our roster looking like right now:
PG....Collison / Curry (RFA)
SG....McLemore
SF....Gay / Casspi / Butler
PF....Cauley-Stein / Moreland
C......Cousins/ Koufos
Isaiah Cousins is the only player we drafted who might warrant a roster spot next year. We don't need to trade Koufos because we just drafted a 19 year old project C. He's not Cousins' replacement either, at least not right now. We probably need a new PG but we weren't going to start a rookie PG regardless except maybe for Dunn. We need more defense at the wing positions but we're talking about playoff ready talent and that's not coming from the draft either. We could still use another big, probably a PF because Cauley-Stein can play both front-court positions. We maybe should think about replacing Rudy Gay with a lower usage player who's a more reliable 3pt threat. These are all problems we were going to have regardless of who we drafted. The only missed opportunity here is that we could have traded some combination of picks and players for veteran talent, but it takes two to tango. No trade is better than a bad trade and maybe that's all other teams were offering us.
It seems like the biggest criticism people have is that Papagiannis was a bad value at #13 because he was ranked much lower and nobody really knows anything about him. That's not cause for alarm though. Draft rankings are always a joke. GS would have been mocked if they drafted Draymond Green in the lottery instead of the second round. For how many years did we all go "huh?" when the Spurs pick was announced and then all of those guys turned into legit NBA players. It means we trust our staff in Reno and Sacramento to develop these guys. That hasn't worked out well before, but this is a new regime. Maybe player development ends up being their strength? We don't know yet. Cauley-Stein looks like he's coming along nicely so far. You can tear this draft apart in 4 years if none of these guys pan out, but it's hard to complain about turning 2 picks into 5 players -- four of them first rounders. And we got a future 2nd round pick as well so possibly 6 players.