2016 NBA Draft Discussion

Because you still have the cap space/ freed up Marco's cap space to continue to build to win now.
Nearly every team has cap space this year correct? Not sure the Kings have an extra leg up in free agency like they did last year with rising salaries and added competition.

I sincerely hope more trades are in the works.
 
Papagianis is actually Gianis' (Greek Freak) dad. If the son is awesome, why not the father. LOL

In serious note, I was on the shock wagon after the Papa pick. But I'm getting more comfy with the thought the sure picks ended at #10. After that there is no guarantee regular starters at all.
I don't know the kid. But if I saw this kid's game earlier, I may not be as shocked as I am earlier.

I would say, at 7'2" with agility and body like Papa at age 18, that's a likely lottery pick next year especially if he gets more playing time.
This kid is old school big.
DMC is our only scoring big. I like the chances of having a 7'2" roaming around the paint and running like a guard to both end of the court while DMC is sitting down.

By the way, are we getting another player from the Hornets' trade for Marco? I heard Lamb's name linked to it.
 
OK, we get it. Vlade is an idiot and your a frigging genius. My god, will you just stop for a minute. Look, I get that your disappointed, but the negativism just wears on me after a while. I mean what the hell are we supposed to do? Blow our brains out? Do really think that Vlade was just sitting there staring blankly at his sheet saying my god, what are we going to do? Really? I mean REALLY? Did it ever occur to you that Vlade wanted to draft Papagiannis and that was his plan B? Or do you think he just reached into a jar an pulled out a name?

I remember the exact same thing happening when Petrie walked out on the stage and said the Kings had drafted Peja. Petrie was the most hated man in Sacramento at that moment. But guess what? He was right! So how about we wait and see how this turns out before we commit mass sucide.
Did you not see what Vlade said?

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 2h2 hours ago
Vlade Divac said the point guard they wanted (Dunn, duh) was gone so they traded down. Didn't have one rated high enough to take at 13
Does that seriously not sound like Vlade lacking a backup plan?

Right now, this draft looks like a mess. We traded down for a an 18yearold C who's main offensive game is playing inside, and he can't guard anything except 5s. How does that not conflict with our franchise player? We've all seen Cousins' tweets immediately after that draft pick. Am I missing something here? We have the best C in the game, and just drafted another C in the lotto. So let's restore faith in DMC by drafting his replacement in the lotto? It's not like we needed a back up C, we have a perfectly fine one in Kosta Kofus. I can't see how a player who's pleaded for loyalty doesn't get rubbed the wrong way by this pick. How else could you interpret that tweet? He decided to tweet 1min after the pick announcement that he needed extra strength to lift weights? Pray for him?

Our need still remain at PG. We did not address that need with our 1st pick.

2nd pick in the draft. We take Malachi Richardson. 20yearold freshman wing that isn't a great shooter, has terrible shot selection, needs the ball in his hands to dominate(can't see how this interferes at all with our extremely high usage C and SF), can't finish around the rim, has extremely low assists for a player who ball dominates, and has low bball IQ. 6-6 200lb 20yearold freshman straight out of Syracuse(means ?????? around defense) who is an inefficient scorer from ALL around the court.
Don't try to say his eFG or overall FG% is inflated by the amount of 3s he takes.

...his 38.9% 2P% ranks dead last among DX Top-100 prospects. It is historically difficult to find players who make the NBA shooting that low of a percentage from inside the arc, with only three players we can find in our database dating back 30+ years having been picked in the same season after posting a 2P% under 40%: Randy Livingston (#42 pick in 1996, 36.5% in 13 games), Andrew Harrison (#44 in 2015, 38%) and Josh Selby (#49 pick in 2011, 38%).
His jumpshot needs a lot of fine tuning.
So we draft an extremely raw wing who can't shoot, but can handle the ball(needs the ball in his hands to be effective) to replace Belinelli? The guy takes shots like he's Kobe!
Fans complain about McLemore's lack of bball IQ. I guess it'll be better when they see a McLemore who can't shoot, but loves to take contested shots anyways. I don't even know how Richardson was even considered a 1st round pick in the first place. What does this guy honestly excel at? What's his strength? Ball dominant ball handler? Aggressiveness...aka taking the dumbest shots possible? Anyone who watched Syracuse knew that Richardson should've gone back for 1 more year.
He's a 2" taller version of Isaiah Whitehead, with a little more bball IQ.

Labissiere wasn't as bad of a pick because low-risk, high reward. However, he's not going to contribute next year at all. We both take that as a fact. He was terrible. The guy couldn't even stay on the floor against college competition. He was getting abused night in and night out. His demeanor is extremely passive and timid.

Yes, then we got Bogdanvoic who we know for sure is NOT coming over this upcoming season. I personally love him, but again...he's a piece that does not contribute this year at all.
Won't expect much from Isaiah Cousins as the 59th overall pick.

Weren't there a billion signs indicating that the Kings would finally stop their meddling and decide to build around DeMarcus Cousins and put pieces that actually fit him this year? Instead, we just drafted a guy at his very same position(won't contribute immediately), a ball dominant SG who can't shoot(won't contribute immediately), raw PF/C....same position(won't contribute immediately), and Bogdanovic(won't come over for at least 1 more year). It makes absolutely 0 sense right now.

Look at New Orleans. They needed more shooting for AD. What did they do? Drafted a SG(knows how to shoot and play off the ball) to put around AD. What did the Kings do with their lotto pick? Drafted a potential DeMarcus Cousins replacement.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
You can't honestly look at me straight in the face through your computer screen and tell me you think Papagiannis was BPA at 13 with Valentine or Baldwin sitting there for the taking. Sometimes need and BPA work hand in hand and we missed that opportunity on several occasions tonight.
I can't tell you that Papagiannis was my personal BPA at 13 but Valentine and Baldwin both have serious question marks about how useful they'd actually be for the Kings and weren't my BPAs at that point. My personal crappy draft board at that point looked something like this:
1. Luwawu
2. Ellenson
3. Beasley
4. Skal
5. Deyonta Davis
6. Valentine
7. Hernangomez
8. Baldwin
9. Malachi
10. Dejounte
Not on list: Papagiannis (It should be noted that even though I now live outside the US, I watch next to no international ball and had barely heard the dude's name before we drafted him)

Now, as anyone who knows me knows, I am incredibly biased towards size and/or athleticism because I'm one of those idiots who believes that rudimentary basketball skills can be taught but having a size advantage can't. So were I in Vlade's shoes and, if for whatever reason Luwawu was off my board, I would do the same thing he did and probably go big. If I were going to pick for need, the top non-Luwawu guard on my board was Beasley, who pretty much is Ben McLemore, only from Florida, so that'd kinda suck.

Should also point out that I valued Skal a lot more than most other people on this board because once again I am a size-whore and I thought his game could possible do better in a slightly more open NBA game.
 
Did you not see what Vlade said?
Our need still remain at PG. We did not address that need with our 1st pick.
Well maybe the media just did not know that Rondo is still very inclined to sign a long contract with the Kings.
So drafting a PG would not be sort of pleasing invitation for him or Mike Conley though, come Free Agency signing.
 
So, when we draft for need our GM is an idiot because you should get BPA. When we draft what our GM thinks is the BPA, he's an idiot because he should have drafted for need. We draft an 18-year-old euro prospect and all of a sudde the sky is falling because Cousins will surely think this is his replacement and we are not going to build around him. So if that's how it is, then the Bucks don't really like Antetoukoumpo, because they just drafted Maker.

It's unbelievable how people think our GM is a complete idiot. According to someone, our GM was sitting on his ass, with a piece of paper in his hand, with just one name on it: "Dunn". After that, he had no clue... Next year we should absolutely send a random fan to do his job, he's such a lazy ass...

People forget that yesterday we had #8 and #59. Divac turned them into Bogdanovic, Papagiannis, Richardson, Skal, Cousins and a future second round pick. Oh, and in the meanwhile he unloaded Marco's contract. Yes, it really seems like he had no plan B. Dunn or bust.
 
Since people are posting youtube videos to make themselves feel better about Big Georgios at #13, I would follow the suit:
He still clearly has a lot of baby fat, so if he drops some extra weight (we just need to get The Witch on his case:rolleyes:), mobility is likely to improve past the level of Monroe/Kanter at least. And guy does run the floor hard, unlike that lazy Boogie. Maybe we should trade him.:eek::D
 
Grabbed these from realgm, sure its just shooting around, but the 3 point threat is real.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BG4QcqmBvH2/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG19EP9hvPM/

Under the most optimistic thoughts, the 3 translates, he works his butt off and becomes more efficient with WCS harassing him on D, and mans up trying to deal with Cousins.

If anyone has a real shot of getting this guy to reach his potential it should be us.
 
I can't tell you that Papagiannis was my personal BPA at 13 but Valentine and Baldwin both have serious question marks about how useful they'd actually be for the Kings and weren't my BPAs at that point. My personal crappy draft board at that point looked something like this:
1. Luwawu
2. Ellenson
3. Beasley
4. Skal
5. Deyonta Davis
6. Valentine
7. Hernangomez
8. Baldwin
9. Malachi
10. Dejounte
Not on list: Papagiannis (It should be noted that even though I now live outside the US, I watch next to no international ball and had barely heard the dude's name before we drafted him)

Now, as anyone who knows me knows, I am incredibly biased towards size and/or athleticism because I'm one of those idiots who believes that rudimentary basketball skills can be taught but having a size advantage can't. So were I in Vlade's shoes and, if for whatever reason Luwawu was off my board, I would do the same thing he did and probably go big. If I were going to pick for need, the top non-Luwawu guard on my board was Beasley, who pretty much is Ben McLemore, only from Florida, so that'd kinda suck.

Should also point out that I valued Skal a lot more than most other people on this board because once again I am a size-whore and I thought his game could possible do better in a slightly more open NBA game.
The big issue is not really with Papagiannis himself. I think he makes for an intriguing prospect and what I've read about him after saying "Who the hell is that?" a million times, is he looks like a talented guy with a lot of skills who can run the floor with great size. Looks like there's some conditioning issues and defensive issues, but that's expected from a kid so young.

The problem is he looks like a pure C who makes for an awkward fit with Boogie on the defensive end of the floor and a questionable one offensively, even though it looks like he does have somewhat of a jumper. Regardless, he profiles as a guy who wants to patrol the paint, where Boogie already is. He's also not a guy who can help us keep Boogie here long-term. Just isn't room to develop him here and there's no way in hell I'd want to give him time over Kosta or WCS at C.

There's also this:

Blake Ellington ‏@BlakeEllington 3h3 hours ago
Vlade Divac said the Kings had heard rumors that Papagiannis would not be available later in the first round and so they took him.


So did Vlade get juked by smokescreens? Because Papagiannis wasn't on ANYONE's lottery board or even mid-first round pick. Even if he didn't think he'd last to 22 and we absolutely had to draft him, we had the assets to trade up a few spots and get him at 19 or 20.

There just has to be a major trade coming sometime soon. Because this years draft philosophy and what we did last year are two completely different paths that don't compliment each other.
 
The big issue is not really with Papagiannis himself. I think he makes for an intriguing prospect and what I've read about him after saying "Who the hell is that?" a million times, is he looks like a talented guy with a lot of skills who can run the floor with great size. Looks like there's some conditioning issues and defensive issues, but that's expected from a kid so young.

The problem is he looks like a pure C who makes for an awkward fit with Boogie on the defensive end of the floor and a questionable one offensively, even though it looks like he does have somewhat of a jumper. Regardless, he profiles as a guy who wants to patrol the paint, where Boogie already is. He's also not a guy who can help us keep Boogie here long-term. Just isn't room to develop him here and there's no way in hell I'd want to give him time over Kosta or WCS at C.

There's also this:

Blake Ellington ‏@BlakeEllington 3h3 hours ago
Vlade Divac said the Kings had heard rumors that Papagiannis would not be available later in the first round and so they took him.


So did Vlade get juked by smokescreens? Because Papagiannis wasn't on ANYONE's lottery board or even mid-first round pick. Even if he didn't think he'd last to 22 and we absolutely had to draft him, we had the assets to trade up a few spots and get him at 19 or 20.

There just has to be a major trade coming sometime soon. Because this years draft philosophy and what we did last year are two completely different paths that don't compliment each other.
Well you've got to assume Vlade knew it was likely he was gone...

Or that you know everyone's boards.
 
...So did Vlade get juked by smokescreens? Because Papagiannis wasn't on ANYONE's lottery board or even mid-first round pick. Even if he didn't think he'd last to 22 and we absolutely had to draft him, we had the assets to trade up a few spots and get him at 19 or 20.

There just has to be a major trade coming sometime soon. Because this years draft philosophy and what we did last year are two completely different paths that don't compliment each other.
As for philosophy Willie just happened to combine BPA and most ready/best fit last year. This year FO went for the best talent available, but due to weakness of the draft best talent happened to be very raw.


Didn't see the draft past 30s, and just noticed, that Robert Carter, Gary Payton and Finney-Smith went undrafted. Absolutely the best UDFAs. Really hope, Kings snatch them: if anyone want NBA ready, these guys actually are. I don't remember GP II or DFS hitting towns much, so they must be the guys, that Kyler had a crazy rumor about teams asking players to shut down, go undrafted in exchange for guaranteed contracts.
 
Since people are posting youtube videos to make themselves feel better about Big Georgios at #13, I would follow the suit:
He still clearly has a lot of baby fat, so if he drops some extra weight (we just need to get The Witch on his case:rolleyes:), mobility is likely to improve past the level of Monroe/Kanter at least. And guy does run the floor hard, unlike that lazy Boogie. Maybe we should trade him.:eek::D
Someone mentioned Marc Gasol, though I think Gasol was even a lot fatter than him when he first started. If Georgios gets into NBA shape like Gasol, he might be scary.
 
Grabbed these from realgm, sure its just shooting around, but the 3 point threat is real.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BG4QcqmBvH2/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG19EP9hvPM/
Under the most optimistic thoughts, the 3 translates, he works his butt off and becomes more efficient with WCS harassing him on D, and mans up trying to deal with Cousins.

If anyone has a real shot of getting this guy to reach his potential it should be us.
Whoa this guy looks like he got a really nice looking shooting stroke.
 
Someone mentioned Marc Gasol, though I think Gasol was even a lot fatter than him when he first started. If Georgios gets into NBA shape like Gasol, he might be scary.
I wouldn't shoot that high. Rich man's Meyers Leonard in terms of style/impact would be my first thought. Georgios is definitely a better athlete than Marc though.
 
I watched some George tape. At the moment, he's similar to WCS on offense. A lot of offense comes from high PNR. I think early on he can give WCS a breather on that end. Defensively, he has a lot of work to do. He has a lot of fat to lose and isn't as strong as you'd think he is. His motor is bad (due to some conditioning) His shooting is non existant behind the paint. I think we have the perfect coach in DJ to fix his flaws. He's a couple years away from being a starter but can come in and get 5-10 minutes a game in backing up WCS on offense.
 
I won't comment on the players we picked, because to be honest I only know a few draftexpress videos and highlight reels.
The one thing that bothers me is that our roster is so imbalanced right now. We are stacked with big man and literally have a huge hole at the wing and guard positions. Now every GM and agent in the league knows that and I guess we will see a lot of lowball trade offers and FA's demanding incredibly huge contracts to "help" us fix this hole.
Philly didn't get punished too badly for stacking big man yet, but they are a young rebuilding team and can wait until a solid offer for one of their guys comes along.
We on the other hand look pretty desperate right now - new arena, Gay FA's coming up, Cousins 2 years left.....
Now Vlade's job is also to think about the time after Cousins, so maybe this is where drafting an 18 year old Greek makes sense.
 
Whoa this guy looks like he got a really nice looking shooting stroke.

;)

I think we might want to consider, that no matter who gets drafted to the NBA he is still one of the best basketball players on this planet and if you and I shoot maybe 30 to 40% on 3's just practicing on the playground we can expect Pro's to be able to shoot the basketball too. Now Papa's shooting mechanic looks a lot more fluent and confident than Plumlee's, but if it doesn't translate into an actual NBA game it doesn't help.
 
Honestly, this is all that should matter. If he thinks that after an open minded scouting process it would be foolish to not draft him at #13.
I like the fact, that our FO is open minded towards international players. That's where Vlade maybe has an advantage over the typical NBA GM. For the fan's, who mostly watch college games and make their mind about the top prospects doing so, it might be confusing, but I think there is a lot of talent outside of the US. Time will tell if we made a decent choice.
 
Pretty much saying what others have said, but the Kings saved like 4 million in cap from the moves made yesterday. It looks like Koufos is on the way out which would save 8 million in cap if that's true. We'd be at around roughly ~50 million in cap. The salary cap is rising up to 94 million or around there according to rumors. With 44 million in cap space, We get Conley due to DJ and Courtney Lee. Here's the team I think we can put on the floor for next season roughly:

PG - Conley / DC / I. Cousins
SG - Lee / Ben / Richardson
SF - Gay / Casspi/ Butler
PF - WCS / Skal
C - Cousins/ Big George
 
Pretty much saying what others have said, but the Kings saved like 4 million in cap from the moves made yesterday. It looks like Koufos is on the way out which would save 8 million in cap if that's true. We'd be at around roughly ~50 million in cap. The salary cap is rising up to 94 million or around there according to rumors. With 44 million in cap space, We get Conley due to DJ and Courtney Lee. Here's the team I think we can put on the floor for next season roughly:

PG - Conley / DC / I. Cousins
SG - Lee / Ben / Richardson
SF - Gay / Casspi/ Butler
PF - WCS / Skal
C - Cousins/ Big George
If Kofus is out, this makes A LOT more sense(in terms of using lotto pick on a C). I guess we will have to be patient for FA.
 
If Kofus is out, this makes A LOT more sense(in terms of using lotto pick on a C). I guess we will have to be patient for FA.
Well we need to reinvest KK salary perhaps.

I'm not sure if George will be ready to play much this year. I can see the tools to develop, but hopefully he is.

You definitely want to watch 20ish seconds in to at least the 1 minute mark.

 

I never watch college games, but looks like Skal can come off screens, get his feet set and fire a jumper. He can take one dribble and shoot too. Looks more like a SF shooting drill, than a big man workout. Pretty quick and bouncy.
Now can he do that in games? The highlights I saw from UK was more about him in the post, where he seems too weak to back someone down, has troubles with guys pushing him off balance and tried too much to look like KAT with those jumphooks.
I would love some guys, who are into college ball give me some further insight, because to me a 6'10 guy with range, good quickness, the ability to hop into his jumpshot, with a nice elevation on his jumpshot and the necessary skill to attack a closeout with a one dribble pull-up looks like a pretty good find late in the first round.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'm not bothered by Vlade taking a center though it's debatable whether the traditional center is nearly as valuable in today's NBA as they were even previous decades. And I'm not bothered by drafting a guy who plays a position where the team is already strong - drafting for need very rarely works out.

I'm bothered by the fact that the Kings drafted a player I know nothing about and who was projected to go much later. And that at the other two picks the Kings took prospects I wasn't high on at all instead of others that I was.

In short, they didn't draft who I thought they should. It's why they'll also probably get hammered in draft "grades" - because they didn't take who writers thought they should.

That doesn't make them bad picks. And to pretend that anyone knows for sure today that they are is ridiculous. We might suspect or point to data that supports that idea but there's no way to know today and that's why the draft is such an inexact science.

If I got to make the picks the Kings would have Baldwin, Luwawu and Dejounte Murray or Ivica Zubac.

But Baldwin was in for a workout and was the only 1st round guy they saw up close and personal and then passed on him. So I'm okay with that. I figured that with Vlade working him out and needing guards, particularly guards that can defend and shoot, that Baldwin was a given at 13. So I'm trusting that the Kings saw enough to decide instead that he wasn't the guy for them.

I'm giving the Kings next season to show me something - significant improvement or even a total rebuild with some potential - before I really judge things and take stock of where this franchise is.

Yesterday I knew nothing about Papagiannis and felt that Richardson and Labissiere were two of my least favorite prospects in this draft. But they are Kings now and I'll root like hell for them to succeed.

And I'll also keep an eye on Baldwin, Luwawu, Zubac and D Murray to see how the guys I was rooting for the Kings to take turn out. I love being right but in this case I'd love to be completely wrong.
 
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Well we need to reinvest KK salary perhaps.

I'm not sure if George will be ready to play much this year. I can see the tools to develop, but hopefully he is.

You definitely want to watch 20ish seconds in to at least the 1 minute mark.

Yea, I've actually watched him a bit before, but never really in depth because he wasn't an option at 8.
I don't think Papa will be ready to play anything more than 20minutes, but we could potentially put him in 10mins/game his rookie year. His biggest adjustment will be the speed of the NBA. He's going to get into foul trouble extremely quickly because of youth and inexperience.

If we do rid ourselves of KK, we'd definitely need to find a big out there in FA/Trade. Skal is not going to contribute at all next year.


I never watch college games, but looks like Skal can come off screens, get his feet set and fire a jumper. He can take one dribble and shoot too. Looks more like a SF shooting drill, than a big man workout. Pretty quick and bouncy.
Now can he do that in games? The highlights I saw from UK was more about him in the post, where he seems too weak to back someone down, has troubles with guys pushing him off balance and tried too much to look like KAT with those jumphooks.
I would love some guys, who are into college ball give me some further insight, because to me a 6'10 guy with range, good quickness, the ability to hop into his jumpshot, with a nice elevation on his jumpshot and the necessary skill to attack a closeout with a one dribble pull-up looks like a pretty good find late in the first round.
I think his jumpshot is easily his most translatable skillset. He can come into the NBA and start knocking down mid range Js. He's athletic and can play above the rim.

Some of his biggest problem are: lack of strength, rebounding, demeanor, and discipline on D.
He has all of the tools to be a very special player, but that's years away from now. He's an extremely raw PF/C(pf more than c) who had trouble defending wings in the post in college. He would get pushed around all the time, even by smaller players. His rebounding was hurt by his lack of strength, but he also just didn't do a very good job boxing out. Demeanor? Extremely passive and needs a lot of coaching. Skal needs to be coddled and brought in slowly. He's not Deyonta Davis bad, at least I don't think(just look at his draft interview..extremely awkward). He's extremely undisciplined on D. He's almost always out of position. Looks confused at times. Fouls extremely crazy.

Skal was actually the 2nd best highschool recruit. He dominated Thon Maker.. (picked at 10 and never played a single game in college). He's slipped so far down because of his terrible year at Kentucky. God-awful might be a better way to describe it.

If the Kings can develop Skal, he has potential to be a very good player. He won't be able to contribute for at least another year. He needs to add a lot more strength.
 
Pretty much saying what others have said, but the Kings saved like 4 million in cap from the moves made yesterday. It looks like Koufos is on the way out which would save 8 million in cap if that's true. We'd be at around roughly ~50 million in cap. The salary cap is rising up to 94 million or around there according to rumors. With 44 million in cap space, We get Conley due to DJ and Courtney Lee. Here's the team I think we can put on the floor for next season roughly:

PG - Conley / DC / I. Cousins
SG - Lee / Ben / Richardson
SF - Gay / Casspi/ Butler
PF - WCS / Skal
C - Cousins/ Big George
And this is a team that will take us to the playoffs?
 

I never watch college games, but looks like Skal can come off screens, get his feet set and fire a jumper. He can take one dribble and shoot too. Looks more like a SF shooting drill, than a big man workout. Pretty quick and bouncy.
Now can he do that in games? The highlights I saw from UK was more about him in the post, where he seems too weak to back someone down, has troubles with guys pushing him off balance and tried too much to look like KAT with those jumphooks.
I would love some guys, who are into college ball give me some further insight, because to me a 6'10 guy with range, good quickness, the ability to hop into his jumpshot, with a nice elevation on his jumpshot and the necessary skill to attack a closeout with a one dribble pull-up looks like a pretty good find late in the first round.
This is going to be about whether the Kings can develop talent. We drafted a couple of bigs who are raw with nice shooting strokes. What are we going to mold them into and how patient will we be is the question. Skal started playing the game late and is going to need time before the game slows down for him. He has all the tools, just needs the development time. Big George is going to need to get into NBA shape so he can move his feet laterally. So I'm ok with these picks if the Vlade has a plan, which of course he does.

By the way, it might not be a bad idea to try to make Skal into a stretch 4.