2016 NBA Draft Discussion

Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#661
#661
upinsmoke said:
I don't think that's fair to Brown. His handle and feel for the game are better than Mclemore right now.
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It's a weak and lazy comparison regardless. Brown is raw but they are nothing alike as players.

I'm taking Brown at 8 if he's there. He has the drive/IQ/charisma that Ben lacks. I'm not giving up on Ben btw, I just think he's still a kid in terms of maturity and confidence. Pretty sure Ben is going to blossom into a very solid player in his late twenties. I just think with Brown you are getting a potential all-star who can contribute immediately defensively. We want and need defense, so lets take one of the better perimeter defenders.

On an unrelated note, I really believe Jamal Murray is going to better than everyone thinks. Star, probably not. But a prolific shooter who can do a little of everything, I think so.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#662
#662
Would Brown play SG for us? Seems like he's projected as a sf but unless we trade Rudy (seems likely enough) he's an SG right? I don't like our ball handling or shooting if that's the case.
I still like Valentine although doesn't look like he's in the running for a top ten selection.

Murray or Hield seem like no brainer picks. Both are anti-mclemore guys. Guys that make up for what they lack in athleticism with aggressiveness and scoring instincts.

Dunn is the only no brainer I see at pg. Baldwin is a no go for me... Don't like his offensive upside. Doesn't shoot well off the dribble, doesn't finish well, and not a great ball handler. All areas you don't want your pg to struggle at.

Not a very exciting draft imo but there still surely be some future all stars selected and hopefully we land one.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#663
#663
roasthawg said:
Would Brown play SG for us? Seems like he's projected as a sf but unless we trade Rudy (seems likely enough) he's an SG right? I don't like our ball handling or shooting if that's the case.
I still like Valentine although doesn't look like he's in the running for a top ten selection.

Murray or Hield seem like no brainer picks. Both are anti-mclemore guys. Guys that make up for what they lack in athleticism with aggressiveness and scoring instincts.
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I think he does play the 2 for us. Many sites have him listed at 6'5" without shoes.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#664
#664
roasthawg said:
Would Brown play SG for us? Seems like he's projected as a sf but unless we trade Rudy (seems likely enough) he's an SG right? I don't like our ball handling or shooting if that's the case.
I still like Valentine although doesn't look like he's in the running for a top ten selection.

Murray or Hield seem like no brainer picks. Both are anti-mclemore guys. Guys that make up for what they lack in athleticism with aggressiveness and scoring instincts.

Dunn is the only no brainer I see at pg. Baldwin is a no go for me... Don't like his offensive upside. Doesn't shoot well off the dribble, doesn't finish well, and not a great ball handler. All areas you don't want your pg to struggle at.

Not a very exciting draft imo but there still surely be some future all stars selected and hopefully we land one.
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I wouldn't mind Brown, but I don't know if he can play the 2. His shooting isn't good enough. Collison will most likely be suspended. If we bring back Rondo, we'll have a lineup of Rondo-Brown-Gay-WCS-Cousins. Terrible floor spacing.

I think he'd start the season coming off the bench. He can play SG in the future, but not right now.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#665
#665
Dime Dropper said:
It's a weak and lazy comparison regardless. Brown is raw but they are nothing alike as players.

I'm taking Brown at 8 if he's there. He has the drive/IQ/charisma that Ben lacks. I'm not giving up on Ben btw, I just think he's still a kid in terms of maturity and confidence. Pretty sure Ben is going to blossom into a very solid player in his late twenties. I just think with Brown you are getting a potential all-star who can contribute immediately defensively. We want and need defense, so lets take one of the better perimeter defenders.

On an unrelated note, I really believe Jamal Murray is going to better than everyone thinks. Star, probably not. But a prolific shooter who can do a little of everything, I think so.
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I'd take Brown there too. There is one major difference between Ben and Brown. Brown is a tank, a beastly wing. He's 220 and hasn't even really filled out yet. If Ben were 6'7" and 220 pounds he would have gone number 1 in that crap draft he was in.
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#666
#666
If we keep the #8 pick, then obviously we'll be pulling for one of Kris Dunn (starting PG), Buddy Hield (starting SG), and Jamal Murray (combo guard) to fall to us as the main options who could step in from day one and contribute. After that we would have one of two options: one, taking a raw upside player like Chriss, Bender, or Brown; two, taking a more polished and NBA ready player like Domantas Sabonis and Jakob Poeltl. Personally, I am torn in this situation because we could benefit from taking a high upside player as someone who could be part of our future, but with Cousins being an UFA in two years time, I think I would lean towards drafting Domantas Sabonis if one of those guards didn't fall to us. Why? Well, he's an NBA ready player. He can play PF and C. He's a good rebounder and has a decent offensive skill set with a developing three point shot. So he provide impact off the bench as someone that could stretch the floor, or possibly develop into a starting stretch four (eg. like Frank Kaminsky does for Charlotte). The only time I would draft Poeltl is if we trade Koufos, at that point we could use a polished back up center like Poeltl. But ultimately whether one of my favored guards falls or not, we have options.

What I would like to see happen is us acquire a mid to late first round pick. In some recent mocks I have seen Denzel Valentine, Malik Beasley and Dejounte Murray have been available in the mid to late twenties. Based on recent events we might see Darren Collison traded away if our front office and ownership don't want a player with a domestic violence charge on the team. If that happens, maybe we could persuade a play off team like Indiana (#20), Atlanta (#21), Charlotte (#22), Boston (#23) or the Clippers (#25) to part with their first round pick to acquire Collison; or perhaps the 76ers would take him on and give up one or both of their late first round picks (#24 and #26). If we could acquire a pick in the twenties we might be able to add Valentine or Beasley who could give us that three point shooting SG prospect to play off the bench or start, or we could add a talented combo guard with upside like Dejounte Murray. Any of that trio could potentially add a valuable bench or even a potential starter down the line to the team if we don't acquire such a player at #8. If we do acquire such a player at #8 (eg Dunn, Hield or J Murray), then we could still look to acquire a late first round pick to add someone like Cheick Diallo who would be a high energy PF or C, or even take a flyer on Thon Maker or Zhou Qi. Ultimately we have a number of options available to us.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#667
#667
roasthawg said:
Dunn is the only no brainer I see at pg. Baldwin is a no go for me... Don't like his offensive upside. Doesn't shoot well off the dribble, doesn't finish well, and not a great ball handler. All areas you don't want your pg to struggle at.
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Just in relation to this point: you would have hated Westbrook as a prospect (as many others would have, which was very fair at the time). Point is, evaluating prospects is not easy, and you simply cannot discount anyone based on numbers. You need to take so much more into account. I mean, the odds are against Baldwin being the next great PG, but I certainly wouldn't discount him based on weakness.

Let's not forget that Westbrook came off the bench behind our very own Darren Collison in college and was drafted largely on his athleticism and untapped potential as a PG.
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#668
#668
Dime Dropper said:
Just in relation to this point: you would have hated Westbrook as a prospect (as many others would have, which was very fair at the time). Point is, evaluating prospects is not easy, and you simply cannot discount anyone based on numbers. You need to take so much more into account. I mean, the odds are against Baldwin being the next great PG, but I certainly wouldn't discount him based on weakness.

Let's not forget that Westbrook came off the bench behind our very own Darren Collison in college and was drafted largely on his athleticism and untapped potential as a PG.
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Baldwin is a decent prospect with good size and a huge wingspan. He also seems to be a decent outside shooter as well. I'm not sure how I would feel with us selecting him at #8, but if the top guard prospects are off the board, and we are left with a choice between the raw upside players (Bender, Chriss, Brown) and the polished players (Sabonis and Poeltl), then perhaps taking a flyer on Baldwin could be worthwhile. He might not be ready to start his first year, but he could learn his trade and be an impact player off the bench. Though perhaps we would need to bring back Rondo in this instance due to Collison's domestic violence charge, or look to acquire a new starting PG in free agency or via a trade.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#669
#669
Baldwin's weaknesses don't bother me that much because even if he doesn't improve he can still be a 3 and D PG, which could be fine if we run our offense through Cousins in the high post. I'd be fine if we just took him at 8.

Sabonis? There are probably at least 20 guys I like in this draft more than Sabonis.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#670
#670
SacTownKid said:
I'd take Brown there too. There is one major difference between Ben and Brown. Brown is a tank, a beastly wing. He's 220 and hasn't even really filled out yet. If Ben were 6'7" and 220 pounds he would have gone number 1 in that crap draft he was in.
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Even though I agree with you, there are a lot more differences. But yes, you're right athletically. I'm pretty confident that Brown will come into the league and immediately be a top 10 athlete (probably top 5) in the NBA. The kid is a mini-Lebron athletically. Laugh at that comparison all you want, but it will become clear. This kid is going to do crazy things on both sides of the ball athletically.

Ben will get there eventually (probably with a different team). I just think Jaylen has the confidence/IQ to get where he wants to be sooner. History is on the side of guys who can get to the rim and defend well, and are elite athletes and intelligent (copyright on this horribly structured sentence).
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#671
#671
Mike said:
Baldwin is a decent prospect with good size and a huge wingspan. He also seems to be a decent outside shooter as well. I'm not sure how I would feel with us selecting him at #8, but if the top guard prospects are off the board, and we are left with a choice between the raw upside players (Bender, Chriss, Brown) and the polished players (Sabonis and Poeltl), then perhaps taking a flyer on Baldwin could be worthwhile. He might not be ready to start his first year, but he could learn his trade and be an impact player off the bench. Though perhaps we would need to bring back Rondo in this instance due to Collison's domestic violence charge, or look to acquire a new starting PG in free agency or via a trade.
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Agreed. I don't love Baldwin, but I am warming to him. There is no sure thing at 8, but I do think he's a talented kid with the right attitude and confidence. He's not my top choice, but I certainly will still be happy if he is our choice. Smart, atlhletic, hard-working kid.

I feel happy with myself that I can now legitimately call draft prospects kids. I'm 25 now and I still remember posting here as an idiot 13 year old, think sophomores were old and past it.
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#672
#672
Dime Dropper said:
Agreed. I don't love Baldwin, but I am warming to him. There is no sure thing at 8, but I do think he's a talented kid with the right attitude and confidence. He's not my top choice, but I certainly will still be happy if he is our choice. Smart, atlhletic, hard-working kid.

I feel happy with myself that I can now legitimately call draft prospects kids. I'm 25 now and I still remember posting here as an idiot 13 year old, think sophomores were old and past it.
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x2 - you can tell you're getting older (I'm 27) when you start calling college players "kids" :D
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#673
#673
ElRey said:
Seems like Jaylen Brown is sliding in some Mock drafts and projected to be picked by us. Even though the guy comes from my alumni, I'm rather nervous about him after watching his highlights. He looks like he is more ATHLETE than basketball player right now. Pure athleticism with excellent potential, but poor skill level and poor feel for the game. Kind of like Ben Mclemore.
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I'm hoping we learned our lesson with T-Rob and McLemore...two great athletes who just haven't put it together. Too early still I know, but you don't necessarily always have to go with the athlete...give me a smart ball player with average athleticism any day of the week. Feel for the game is way more important. Good mechanics.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#674
#674
Dime Dropper said:
Just in relation to this point: you would have hated Westbrook as a prospect (as many others would have, which was very fair at the time). Point is, evaluating prospects is not easy, and you simply cannot discount anyone based on numbers. You need to take so much more into account. I mean, the odds are against Baldwin being the next great PG, but I certainly wouldn't discount him based on weakness.

Let's not forget that Westbrook came off the bench behind our very own Darren Collison in college and was drafted largely on his athleticism and untapped potential as a PG.
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I loved Westbrook coming out basically because when he went head to head against Rose you couldn't tell the two apart... Both were on another planet athletically.

I also loved Jimmer though... Win some, lose some. I do get your point though but Baldwin isn't the athlete Russell was. Not explosive like Russell. And that explosiveness makes Westbrook who he is.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#676
#676
roasthawg said:
I loved Westbrook coming out basically because when he went head to head against Rose you couldn't tell the two apart... Both were on another planet athletically.

I also loved Jimmer though... Win some, lose some. I do get your point though but Baldwin isn't the athlete Russell was. Not explosive like Russell. And that explosiveness makes Westbrook who he is.
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He's damm close! Baldwin is a very good athlete, and if that's the only think holding someone back in their decision, then it's moot. I think something needs to be clarified. No, Baldwin isn't the ball handler that Dunn is, but he's not a bad ball handler. He's not McLemore! Does he need to tighten it up? Yes! But as long as he plays within himself, he's fine. Is he a great mid-range shooter? No, but then, neither is Dunn. Dunn is a far better finisher, and to be honest, Baldwin should be, and once into the league, I think he'll improve that part of his game. Right now he appears to lack confidence in it. He's a better three point shooter than Dunn, and more consistent. In other words he comes closer to shooting 40% from the three every game, instead of shooting 70% one game and 20% the next.

Compared to Dunn I think it's fine to say that Baldwin is a little raw, but compared to Brown, he's an experienced vet. I'll say it again, Brown scares me, and if we end up with him I pray to god that I'm wrong about him.

On another note I see the Kings are bringing in Robert Carter on monday for a workout. He's one of my favorite players and would be a very good second round pick. Personally I think he's first round talent. Very skilled big man that was, in my opinion, misused at Maryland He can shoot the three, put it on the floor a little, and post up. Good rebounder, and willing defender. No one pushes him around under the basket. .
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#677
#677
bajaden said:
He's damm close! Baldwin is a very good athlete, and if that's the only think holding someone back in their decision, then it's moot. I think something needs to be clarified. No, Baldwin isn't the ball handler that Dunn is, but he's not a bad ball handler. He's not McLemore! Does he need to tighten it up? Yes! But as long as he plays within himself, he's fine. Is he a great mid-range shooter? No, but then, neither is Dunn. Dunn is a far better finisher, and to be honest, Baldwin should be, and once into the league, I think he'll improve that part of his game. Right now he appears to lack confidence in it. He's a better three point shooter than Dunn, and more consistent. In other words he comes closer to shooting 40% from the three every game, instead of shooting 70% one game and 20% the next.

Compared to Dunn I think it's fine to say that Baldwin is a little raw, but compared to Brown, he's an experienced vet. I'll say it again, Brown scares me, and if we end up with him I pray to god that I'm wrong about him.

On another note I see the Kings are bringing in Robert Carter on monday for a workout. He's one of my favorite players and would be a very good second round pick. Personally I think he's first round talent. Very skilled big man that was, in my opinion, misused at Maryland He can shoot the three, put it on the floor a little, and post up. Good rebounder, and willing defender. No one pushes him around under the basket. .
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I'm thinking more George Hill then Russell Westbrook but if we pick him I'll be hoping for Russell. He does have a lot of similarities to Russ (spent time playing off the ball, wasn't heavily recruited out of HS, late bloomer, size, etc) but Russell isn't Russell without elite athleticism I don't think and Baldwin isn't quite there IMO.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#678
#678
One final note on the workout scheduled on monday. The Kings are bringing back Mike Bryson for a second look. He was the SG from U.C. Santa Barbara that Mike Bratz praised after his workout.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#679
#679
It's being reported that Denzel Valentine has cartilage damage in both knees. His stock is dropping.....might not get picked in the first round at this point.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#680
#680
Question for the members who have studied the deep, deep part of the available players. Are the guys the Kings are bringing in daily for the workouts potential late first rounders? Are they straight second rounders or undrafted guys who we will invite to play in our Summer League team?

I'm anticipating at least some trading in which we may bring in a second rounder. Hence, the reason for these non-lottery types working out.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#681
#681
I haven't had the chance to review this thread but I just want to add if Dunn does not fall to us we should draft Baldwin....especially with with Collison fiasco. Baldwin has special qualities. I like players who make the game look easy and Baldwin makes the game look pretty easy. Opponents are going to have to back off him because off his ability to get to the rim and finish through contact....and thats going to give him space to launch that jumper of his. He puts it in front of his face which is weird and suboptimal release point...but I think he will be okay. We are sitting in a pretty good spot at #8.....a good player will be there, Dunn or Buddy or Baldwin.....or.... {wait for it}......Sabonis!!!!
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#683
#683
Hield, Brown, or Baldwin... My money is on one of those three being the pick. Looks like one of either Brown or Hield will be available at eight so might be between them and Baldwin.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#684
#684
lawlman91 said:
Wow, only motivated and good character people do that. You've made me high on this dude. But then again, I know people who are smart for the sake of making up for low self esteem, but thankfully that isn't that common from my experience
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but don't you think with high intelligence comes high self esteem?
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#686
#686
Sac.Kings said:
I would still take Baldwin over Brown, but I wouldn't be upset with Brown either. Again, Dunn is the favorite but the closer we get to the draft, the more I doubt he makes it to 8.
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Yeah no way Dunn makes it til eight. Murray won't either imo, regardless of what mocks are saying. Hield or Brown.... One of those two will be there at eight I think.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#687
#687
I haven't seen anyone here mention Josh Adams, he is very explosive...does he have a place in the NBA or is he just one of those athletes that won't do anything in the pros?
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#689
#689
kingsboi said:
I haven't seen anyone here mention Josh Adams, he is very explosive...does he have a place in the NBA or is he just one of those athletes that won't do anything in the pros?
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Might make it, once he learns to play as a PG, or alternatively shows he can shut down every NBADL PG, while showing very good shot selection.

Kings are bringing Robert Carter in among the participants of the final workout, though none of the other guys up to this point were considered even in the middle of 2nd round. At this point my guess would be, that Kings are just going to pick up best player available at #8 and call it a day, or just trade out of the pick completely.
 
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