What should Vlade do at Trade Deadline???
- Thread starter ockingsfan
- Start date
Cavs are trying to make a title run and they are looking at Korver, Ariza and Mclemore. Think about that when we are crying about not having a SG. A title contender is actively inquiring about ours. I don't care what they may be offering or if Ben comes off the vench. The fact is they think he can help.
And Shump is highly overvalued on this board. Think about it again. If Shumpert is so valuable, why is Cleveland still searching.
And Shump is highly overvalued on this board. Think about it again. If Shumpert is so valuable, why is Cleveland still searching.
.... this may seem inappropriate considering we have WCS, but what if we set our sights on Kevin Love in return? Love can man the 4 position until WCS gets up to snuff (or when Karl decides to play him consistently) and would improve our shooting and allow Cousins to have some space down low. And yes, I understand that this is a huge reach.
Cavs interested in KK
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240803/Cavs-Interested-In-Trading-For-Kosta-Koufos
The Cleveland Cavaliers have interest in trading for Kosta Koufos of the Sacramento Kings.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240803/Cavs-Interested-In-Trading-For-Kosta-Koufos
The Cleveland Cavaliers have interest in trading for Kosta Koufos of the Sacramento Kings.
Certainly not a good contract but I dont think he is overpaid. In 2016/2017 he will make 9.66 mil, so under the old cap that equals to about 7.5 mil. And in 2017/2018 he will make 10.33 mil and that equals to about 7 mil. Add that he is almost perfect for the role he would play with us and I say he is worth it. I'm concerned about his health though.
Last edited:
The big problem with Shumpert is he's an atrocious shooter. Rondo and him in the back-court would easily be the worst shooting combo in the league. But if you can get him for KK, I think you do it. KK is nice back-up center, but we have to address the giant problem of no defenders on the perimeter if we want any hope at making a playoff run
He has to be guarded at the 3 point line at least. Rondo will be able to find him if he cuts, he and Rondo may end up being one of the better rebounding duo's around too for guards.
Seriously how many shots with our basic roster do you want coming from SG?
Say 6 threes? Ok he'll hit 2-6 roughly.
Why the concern for offense from the position?
Seriously how many shots with our basic roster do you want coming from SG?
Say 6 threes? Ok he'll hit 2-6 roughly.
Why the concern for offense from the position?
Mainly because it's the same concern some people held for Ben. Disappears on offense too much, so he sucks and shouldn't play.
There can't be a double-standard. Shumpert is a good defender, but you talked about his shooting %s. I'm saying he only shoots that well because defenders constantly leave him open..
There can't be a double-standard. Shumpert is a good defender, but you talked about his shooting %s. I'm saying he only shoots that well because defenders constantly leave him open..
Kings fans are all kinds of weird!
For years we have complained about lack of real back up for Cousins and when we finally get one, we want to ship him out. Sure it is nice that we have WCS and all but we still need more depth at that position. Personally, I wouldn't be looking to move Koufos. He is precisely the type of player you want as your 3rd big. He can spot start if needed, plays very good d, anchors the middle and it's not a complete liability offensively.
Our issues are not with the frontcourt in the slightest. Our issues is the SG spot and in a major way. Every other position is covered and in a different system, which I am in no doubt we will have next season (with Karl gone), the roster will be a hell of a lot more productive at both ends of the court.
If I am Vlade, I am not moving Kosta. I would look to cash in on Ben while I still can and while he has some value but for me Koufos is part of the core. It doesn't make him untouchable but it means there would have to be one heck of a deal on the other side for me to trade him. Mozgov is a solid replacement but he is a FA and with salary cap skyrocketing he will be a deal that is larger than what Koufos is on and I am not sure that is a smart move.
For years we have complained about lack of real back up for Cousins and when we finally get one, we want to ship him out. Sure it is nice that we have WCS and all but we still need more depth at that position. Personally, I wouldn't be looking to move Koufos. He is precisely the type of player you want as your 3rd big. He can spot start if needed, plays very good d, anchors the middle and it's not a complete liability offensively.
Our issues are not with the frontcourt in the slightest. Our issues is the SG spot and in a major way. Every other position is covered and in a different system, which I am in no doubt we will have next season (with Karl gone), the roster will be a hell of a lot more productive at both ends of the court.
If I am Vlade, I am not moving Kosta. I would look to cash in on Ben while I still can and while he has some value but for me Koufos is part of the core. It doesn't make him untouchable but it means there would have to be one heck of a deal on the other side for me to trade him. Mozgov is a solid replacement but he is a FA and with salary cap skyrocketing he will be a deal that is larger than what Koufos is on and I am not sure that is a smart move.
I wouldn't call Shumpert useless. He can handle the ball and isn't a bad cutter. Just because he is reduced to a spot up shooter in Cleveland with Lebron and Kyrie dominating the ball, it doesn't mean he is a one dimensional player.
Yes a healthy Shumpert is an upgrade over Ben. Not a major upgrade, but our SG position would be a bit more solid. The problems are his health and his salary and the fact, that we trade a young average SG for an older average SG, just because we are unable to develop our own players.
Yes a healthy Shumpert is an upgrade over Ben. Not a major upgrade, but our SG position would be a bit more solid. The problems are his health and his salary and the fact, that we trade a young average SG for an older average SG, just because we are unable to develop our own players.
I agree with you 100%.
However, with Ben, we've forced him to guard a lot of different players throughout every game. The most evident case is probably the Lakers game a while back.
I believe he started the game guarding Kobe who struggled. He then switched onto Lou sometime in the 1st because Rondo struggled staying in front. He shut Lou down. A short time later, he went back on Kobe, and Kobe started getting hot. This forced him, to switch onto one of Clarkson or Lou...they did nothing against him. I think he finished guarding against Russell who didn't do much. In the 2nd half, I think he guarded Lou. Russell started getting hot, so this forced Karl to put Ben on Russell. Russell did nothing against Ben. Ben was then taken out in the 4th in favor of Belinelli..
I think I only counted 3 or 4 times where his man actually scored on him. This is the same game where Russell went 11-16, Williams 7-13, Kobe 10-19, and 6-14.
In short, it's really hard to judge Ben's defensive impact when he's being jerked around throughout the entire game in order to guard different players. This has a lot to do with the fact that Rondo, Rudy, and Co. are terrible perimeter defenders.
I'm not saying Ben is shutting guys down day in and day out. But, what I am saying is that it's much harder to catch when he's doing a good defensive job. He's never had a game this season where he only had 1 defensive assignment for 75% of the game. This makes it much harder to see how he's fairing against his guy.
We can look at Korver from last year. He's never had to guard PGs. He was hardly ever forced to guard SFs. Why? His team had Teague-Carroll-Bazemore-Schroder who are all + defenders. He never needed to guard them. He solely guarded SGs and it was much easier for us to see his defensive impact on the team vs. the opposing SG. With Ben, that's not the case.
However, with Ben, we've forced him to guard a lot of different players throughout every game. The most evident case is probably the Lakers game a while back.
I believe he started the game guarding Kobe who struggled. He then switched onto Lou sometime in the 1st because Rondo struggled staying in front. He shut Lou down. A short time later, he went back on Kobe, and Kobe started getting hot. This forced him, to switch onto one of Clarkson or Lou...they did nothing against him. I think he finished guarding against Russell who didn't do much. In the 2nd half, I think he guarded Lou. Russell started getting hot, so this forced Karl to put Ben on Russell. Russell did nothing against Ben. Ben was then taken out in the 4th in favor of Belinelli..
I think I only counted 3 or 4 times where his man actually scored on him. This is the same game where Russell went 11-16, Williams 7-13, Kobe 10-19, and 6-14.
In short, it's really hard to judge Ben's defensive impact when he's being jerked around throughout the entire game in order to guard different players. This has a lot to do with the fact that Rondo, Rudy, and Co. are terrible perimeter defenders.
I'm not saying Ben is shutting guys down day in and day out. But, what I am saying is that it's much harder to catch when he's doing a good defensive job. He's never had a game this season where he only had 1 defensive assignment for 75% of the game. This makes it much harder to see how he's fairing against his guy.
We can look at Korver from last year. He's never had to guard PGs. He was hardly ever forced to guard SFs. Why? His team had Teague-Carroll-Bazemore-Schroder who are all + defenders. He never needed to guard them. He solely guarded SGs and it was much easier for us to see his defensive impact on the team vs. the opposing SG. With Ben, that's not the case.
You didn't @ me, but since your post immedately follows mine, I'll bite.
I like Kosta. I've long thought that he'd be a good fit here. In fact, his name popped into my head the minute I read about the Philly trade.
But it's simply a matter of best allocating resources.
The Kings have the best center in the NBA. They also have a very good starting power forward who can play backup center as well. Adding a third big who can stretch the floor next to Cousins or WCS would give the team an additional wrinkle that, in my (and many others here) opinion, would make Cousins even more effective offensively. As WCS improves, the minutes won't be there--sure, you can play the two centers together, but it's not working well--the Koufos/Cousins pairing is a net loss for the Kings (-3.8 points/100 possessions, to be precise). He's a very solid backup big, which is nice to have, but it's a luxury, not a core piece.
Do I think the Kings should "ship him out" just for fun? By all means, no. But I'm not so confident the Kings can "cash in on Ben" as you are. To upgrade SG, they will likely need to use surplus from another position. But from where? Many here say point guard, but with Rondo's pending free agency, dealing Collison is foolish, IMO. SF? Trading Rudy, maybe, but Casspi is more valuable to the Kings than others. PF? Good luck. That leaves us with the center position...
I like Kosta. I've long thought that he'd be a good fit here. In fact, his name popped into my head the minute I read about the Philly trade.
But it's simply a matter of best allocating resources.
The Kings have the best center in the NBA. They also have a very good starting power forward who can play backup center as well. Adding a third big who can stretch the floor next to Cousins or WCS would give the team an additional wrinkle that, in my (and many others here) opinion, would make Cousins even more effective offensively. As WCS improves, the minutes won't be there--sure, you can play the two centers together, but it's not working well--the Koufos/Cousins pairing is a net loss for the Kings (-3.8 points/100 possessions, to be precise). He's a very solid backup big, which is nice to have, but it's a luxury, not a core piece.
Do I think the Kings should "ship him out" just for fun? By all means, no. But I'm not so confident the Kings can "cash in on Ben" as you are. To upgrade SG, they will likely need to use surplus from another position. But from where? Many here say point guard, but with Rondo's pending free agency, dealing Collison is foolish, IMO. SF? Trading Rudy, maybe, but Casspi is more valuable to the Kings than others. PF? Good luck. That leaves us with the center position...
