WCS

[funkykingston]

I do see Cauley-Stein as being a very important player for us. Kind of like how DeAndre Jordan is a very important player and part of a Big 3 for the Clippers. In fact, our team is being built very similarly to the Clippers.

Pass first PG: Rondo/Paul
Shooting SG: McLemore/Reddick
Scoring SF: Gay/Pierce (although Pierce isn't really that effective anymore)
Dominant Scoring Big Man: Cousins/Griffin
Defensive, Shotblocking Big Man: Cauley-Stein/Jordan

If we're able to add a 3 and D SG (like Bazemore) in FA or if McLemore can step up and become that type of player, I would say that we have the advantage at SG, SF, & PF today. However, in time, I would say that Cauley-Stein is going to be better than Jordan. I would even say that our bench is currently better than theirs Collison/Belinelli/Casspi/Acy/Koufos vs. Rivers/Crawford/W. Johnson/J. Smith/Aldrich. So the only position they would have us beat is PG.

Give Cauley-Stein time to continue to get better, shore up the SG position with a 3 and D player, and let it all play-out. We're in for a fun ride. Be patient Kings Fans!

The big difference with the Clippers is that when they need a basket CP3 can take over and be the primary scorer if he chooses. Rondo can't, so the Kings need a second option. Another thing the Clippers have is Jamal Crawford who is as good a sixth man as there is in the NBA and has been for years and years. The Kings bench doesn't really have anybody that can create their own shot.

 

[206Fan]

Sometimes players are more comfortable at one position more than another. Call it mental if you want, but at the end of the day, it can matter. I was a center fielder in baseball and loved playing there. On occasion because of injuries, I had to play left field or right field. I always felt uncomfortable, even though I was capable of playing both. Left field is where you hide your weak outfielder especially if you have a speedy center fielder that can cheat in left field a little bit. My point is, put a player in a position he's not comfortable with, and you might get a drop in production.

Gay has been s SF for almost all of his career, and when you look at career stats where he's played PF, they don't match up to his stats at SF. On paper you might be right, but in reality, it's not happening. Players aren't robots and what's between their ears is usually what matters. It's all about confidence.

I think maybe there was a mental effect on the defensive side of the floor. When he plays the 3, he's not used to being down low and trying to box out. Usually, he's running out in transition for the easy 2.

I think Gay has always been a SF, but playing the 4 allows him much more freedom to play his type of game on offense. I think you're right though. It's a mental adjustment.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The Kings bench doesn't really have anybody that can create their own shot.

Collison can create his own shot. His speed and quickness not only allow him to get to the basket, but he is often able to create space for a jump shot off the dribble. While he hasn't played well lately, he's usually a pretty valuable and consistent scorer off the bench.

 

[The Hammer]

I do see Cauley-Stein as being a very important player for us. Kind of like how DeAndre Jordan is a very important player and part of a Big 3 for the Clippers. In fact, our team is being built very similarly to the Clippers.

Pass first PG: Rondo/Paul
Shooting SG: McLemore/Reddick
Scoring SF: Gay/Pierce (although Pierce isn't really that effective anymore)
Dominant Scoring Big Man: Cousins/Griffin
Defensive, Shotblocking Big Man: Cauley-Stein/Jordan

If we're able to add a 3 and D SG (like Bazemore) in FA or if McLemore can step up and become that type of player, I would say that we have the advantage at SG, SF, & PF today. However, in time, I would say that Cauley-Stein is going to be better than Jordan. I would even say that our bench is currently better than theirs Collison/Belinelli/Casspi/Acy/Koufos vs. Rivers/Crawford/W. Johnson/J. Smith/Aldrich. So the only position they would have us beat is PG.

Give Cauley-Stein time to continue to get better, shore up the SG position with a 3 and D player, and let it all play-out. We're in for a fun ride. Be patient Kings Fans!

I think McLemore can be that guy, and I think he can be better than Bazemore. He's also a lob threat. He's coming around this season. Finally to a point where we're not just waiting with him anymore, he's producing now, but it still feels like there's significant room for improvement. STILL only 22. We can and should hold on to him to let that development continue. Two more years at steady improvement and he's going to be 24, with 5 years under his belt, a ton of career left, a very good defensive education, and a lot more confidence on his shots. I still think he's our guy.

 

[Glenn]

I want this team to stick together. WCS has allowed people to play their normal positions and also has seemed to turn on a light bulb over Karl's head that having two seven footers on the court at the same time is a good idea. (I lump Cuz in as a 7 footer) The fact with WCS is that he can play uptempo if need be. In his post game interview, Karl said WCS made a few rookie mistakes but did a lot of good things and he mentioned that WCS should be in the all star game. I certainly will agree with that. As I think shooting is one of the few learnable skills, who knows how he will be offensively a few years from now? He already is a defensive game changer.

 

[The Hammer]

As I think shooting is one of the few learnable skills, who knows how he will be offensively a few years from now? He already is a defensive game changer.

His humbleness, work ethic, desire to be great... are all incredible assets in this young man. I agree about the shooting. I see zero reason he can't become an excellent mid range shooter. He already shows decent touch, and that's after basically not being allowed to touch the ball on offense at Kentucky.

This is the homer in me speaking, full disclosure. But we may be witnessing two HOF big men in one era in Sac. I just see so few limitations for this kid.

 

[Glenn]

His humbleness, work ethic, desire to be great... are all incredible assets in this young man. I agree about the shooting. I see zero reason he can't become an excellent mid range shooter. He already shows decent touch, and that's after basically not being allowed to touch the ball on offense at Kentucky.

This is the homer in me speaking, full disclosure. But we may be witnessing two HOF big men in one era in Sac. I just see so few limitations for this kid.

I agree and of course, I am not a homer. I was thrilled when we got Boogie and it took a few years before even the critics have noticed that he is a huge net positive and might be the best big man in the game. All he needed to take some pressure off him was a big defender to run with him. We have been crying for that for years. By happenstance and by luck, we may have found ourselves a one of a kind athletic freak of nature who also has all those qualities you mentioned. To me, WCS is no surprise.

FUN!!!!

 

[Bricklayer]

His humbleness, work ethic, desire to be great... are all incredible assets in this young man. I agree about the shooting. I see zero reason he can't become an excellent mid range shooter. He already shows decent touch, and that's after basically not being allowed to touch the ball on offense at Kentucky.

This is the homer in me speaking, full disclosure. But we may be witnessing two HOF big men in one era in Sac. I just see so few limitations for this kid.

Yikes, guys, I say again as I did this summer -- don't do that!

That's not what WCS is. He's not a great one. He's not a legend. But he may be a great defender. I'm not willing to cap the potential on that end at all. He is special enough there he could one day make All Defense teams. Maybe. But he's a rare bird.

But offensively? There's never been signs. He doesn't have great touch, even has shaky hands. He's not going to be that type of star. But he could be a great complement and an impact defensive player. Don't somehow make him into a disappointment by raising hopes to unrealistic levels. Hope for one of the league's best defensive roleplayers and you may legitimately receive.

 

[The Hammer]

Yikes, guys, I say again as I did this summer -- don't do that!

That's not what WCS is. He's not a great one. He's not a legend. But he may be a great defender. I'm not willing to cap the potential on that end at all. He is special enough there he could one day make All Defense teams. Maybe. But he's a rare bird.

But offensively? There's never been signs. He doesn't have great touch, even has shaky hands. He's not going to be that type of star. But he could be a great complement and an impact defensive player. Don't somehow make him into a disappointment by raising hopes to unrealistic levels. Hope for one of the league's best defensive roleplayers and you may legitimately receive.

Thanks Brick, but I don't need you managing my emotions.

I honestly think his ceiling is top 10 all time defensive player. That's HOF.

He won't be a dominant offensive player ever, but he will be adequate. Solid mid range jumper and a few post moves is all he really needs in our system. Already sets great picks. Defensive footwork will improve, but even at this early stage, his raw skills make up for any weaknesses like that.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

But offensively? There's never been signs. He doesn't have great touch, even has shaky hands. He's not going to be that type of star. .

I remember not so long ago that Serge Ibaka was only thought of as an outstanding defensive player. Now the guy is a 14-15 ppg player that can shoot the 3.

WCS has shown more raw ability to shoot the ball than Ibaka did his first few years in the league. There's no reason to think that he doesn't have the potential to reach the same level in a few years. If he does, and if he becomes the defender we all believe he can be, then -- yes -- you are talking about a world class all-around talent.

Another key thing to consider is that Willie was still fairly focused on football in high school and didn't devote all his time to being a basketball player until later on. And because Kentucky was so loaded, he was never in a situation to fully develop his skillset. I think the kid has a higher ceiling of potential than most give him credit for. Odds are he'll never be a standout offensive player, but I wouldn't rule it out either. He's still raw in many areas. The kid could develop into a really good passer too.

 

[mac]

I remember not so long ago that Serge Ibaka was only thought of as an outstanding defensive player. Now the guy is a 14-15 ppg player that can shoot the 3.

WCS has shown more raw ability to shoot the ball than Ibaka did his first few years in the league. There's no reason to think that he doesn't have the potential to reach the same level in a few years. If he does, and if he becomes the defender we all believe he can be, then -- yes -- you are talking about a world class all-around talent.

Another key thing to consider is that Willie was still fairly focused on football in high school and didn't devote all his time to being a basketball player until later on. And because Kentucky was so loaded, he was never in a situation to fully develop his skillset. I think the kid has a higher ceiling of potential than most give him credit for. Odds are he'll never be a standout offensive player, but I wouldn't rule it out either. He's still raw in many areas. The kid could develop into a really good passer too.

Yeah but I don't think I've ever heard anybody call Serge Ibaka a HOF big man.

 

[VF21]

Yikes, guys, I say again as I did this summer -- don't do that!

That's not what WCS is. He's not a great one. He's not a legend. But he may be a great defender. I'm not willing to cap the potential on that end at all. He is special enough there he could one day make All Defense teams. Maybe. But he's a rare bird.

But offensively? There's never been signs. He doesn't have great touch, even has shaky hands. He's not going to be that type of star. But he could be a great complement and an impact defensive player. Don't somehow make him into a disappointment by raising hopes to unrealistic levels. Hope for one of the league's best defensive roleplayers and you may legitimately receive.

Totally agree, Brickie.

WCS is what we wanted and needed. I don't care if he ever becomes an "excellent mid-range shooter." I want him to continue to excel at what we've seen the past few games, the perfect complement to Cousins and another headache for opposing teams.

 

[Bricklayer]

Hey, as long as people can do the mental gymnastics to come back from "could be HOF big man" to "damn good roleplayer" without feeling like WCS has let them down, the coaches have let WCS down, or whatever, people are free to be as high as they want. I just don't to see what should be an absolute winner for us sullied.

 

[The Hammer]

I remember not so long ago that Serge Ibaka was only thought of as an outstanding defensive player. Now the guy is a 14-15 ppg player that can shoot the 3.

WCS has shown more raw ability to shoot the ball than Ibaka did his first few years in the league. There's no reason to think that he doesn't have the potential to reach the same level in a few years. If he does, and if he becomes the defender we all believe he can be, then -- yes -- you are talking about a world class all-around talent.

Another key thing to consider is that Willie was still fairly focused on football in high school and didn't devote all his time to being a basketball player until later on. And because Kentucky was so loaded, he was never in a situation to fully develop his skillset. I think the kid has a higher ceiling of potential than most give him credit for. Odds are he'll never be a standout offensive player, but I wouldn't rule it out either. He's still raw in many areas. The kid could develop into a really good passer too.

All of this.

 

[Glenn]

Hey, as long as people can do the mental gymnastics to come back from "could be HOF big man" to "damn good roleplayer" without feeling like WCS has let them down, the coaches have let WCS down, or whatever, people are free to be as high as they want. I just don't to see what should be an absolute winner for us sullied.

I don't understand the use of the word "sullied." I've got high expectations of WCS and if he doesn't reach them, he will still be a great compliment to Cuz. He is a unique athlete.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Yeah but I don't think I've ever heard anybody call Serge Ibaka a HOF big man.

I knew somebody was going to say this.

Ibaka isn't the best or only comparison, but merely an example of someone that went from a no contributor offensively to an important piece. That was the main point.

If Willie develops into a perennial DPOY candidate all while contributing 14-15 ppg --- he most certainly would be a potential HOF level player. Of course, much of that depends upon how much success the team has.

The biggest factor might be his potential to become a transcendent defensive presence in this modern era of the NBA. His ability to guard so many positions and the perimeter could be the ticket.

 

[hrdboild]

Ahem! I won't say I told you so, oh damm, I guess I just did, but kudo's to you for manning up and admitting you were wrong. We had several discussions during Willie's final year at Kentucky, and I couldn't understand where you were coming from. Maybe the difference is that I watched Willie play in over 70 games at Kentucky in his three years there. But all's well that ends well, and so far, Willie is proving to be the right choice for the Kings. He's the perfect fit next to Cousins. The only player I wanted more than Willie in that draft was Towns, and we had no chance, other than winning the lottery, of getting him.

Well if you really want to compare notes, Myles Turner was one of a few guys that I campaigned hard for and he just put up 31 points tonight so I don't feel like I've got my tail between my legs. I will agree though that I probably watched the wrong games and also jumped to some unfair conclusions because my impression of Cauley-Stein in college was very different than the player I've seen with the Kings. I probably watched him play only 12-15 games in those three years -- mostly because I don't like watching Kentucky play. Their style of offense since the title run has been irritating to me for some reason. It's rare that we disagree that drastically on a particular player though, so I had a feeling you knew something I didn't know.

Cousins has developed into such a force offensively (nipping at the heels of Kevin Durant for #3 on the scoring leader board right now) that a low usage player like Cauley-Stein is a perfect compliment. There were other bigs in this draft who can also protect the basket, but none of them run the floor like Cauley-Stein and that's made him a surprisingly effective contributor on offense for George Karl so far (and a great fit with Rondo as well). There's no real way to know how any other player would have fit with this team, but right now it's looking like Cauley-Stein could be the missing piece that gets us to start winning with some consistency. Although I do think some of my comments at the time were blown out of proportion (as tends to happen on draft day -- I'm guilty myself) I'm happy to eat a little crow if it means watching the Kings kick butt. Here's hoping George Karl continues putting him on the floor in the 4th quarter when we need him the most.

 

[KingMilz]

If WCS can have a career that can rival Tyson Chandler than we hit the jackpot imo, I'm not really seeing HOF potential but a above average starter in the L who is a game changer is pretty damn good upside. In terms of the way he plays he reminds me athletically of Shawn Marion except WCS is 7 feet. I can't really think of another big he plays like in terms of style/skill cause he's different to DJ/Chandler and these types even if they have similar roles.

 

[bajaden]

Yikes, guys, I say again as I did this summer -- don't do that!

That's not what WCS is. He's not a great one. He's not a legend. But he may be a great defender. I'm not willing to cap the potential on that end at all. He is special enough there he could one day make All Defense teams. Maybe. But he's a rare bird.

But offensively? There's never been signs. He doesn't have great touch, even has shaky hands. He's not going to be that type of star. But he could be a great complement and an impact defensive player. Don't somehow make him into a disappointment by raising hopes to unrealistic levels. Hope for one of the league's best defensive roleplayers and you may legitimately receive.

I don't think he has shaky hands, but I'm going on having watched him play for three years at Kentucky. He certainly doesn't have Cousins hands, but his hands aren't a problem. He's missed some chippy's the last couple of games, but remember that he's playing with two fingers taped together, which certainly doesn't help. Offensively, I don't know how good he can become. He only shoots around 50% from the freethrow line, but when you watch him shoot, he looks like he should be better than that. All three years at Kentucky he played along side either a dominate center, or a dominate PF, so he never had an opportunity to show off any other skills. If he has any. Calapari tends to play players to their strengths. No one knew that Cousins had a jumpshot based on what he did at Kentucky.

 

[VF21]

I don't think he has shaky hands, but I'm going on having watched him play for three years at Kentucky. He certainly doesn't have Cousins hands, but his hands aren't a problem. He's missed some chippy's the last couple of games, but remember that he's playing with two fingers taped together, which certainly doesn't help. Offensively, I don't know how good he can become. He only shoots around 50% from the freethrow line, but when you watch him shoot, he looks like he should be better than that. All three years at Kentucky he played along side either a dominate center, or a dominate PF, so he never had an opportunity to show off any other skills. If he has any. Calapari tends to play players to their strengths. No one knew that Cousins had a jumpshot based on what he did at Kentucky.

And IIRC he hit the same hand again against the Hawks. Maybe we should have him dip his hand in that instant glove stuff?

 

[Showtime]

If WCS can have a career that can rival Tyson Chandler than we hit the jackpot imo, I'm not really seeing HOF potential but a above average starter in the L who is a game changer is pretty damn good upside. In terms of the way he plays he reminds me athletically of Shawn Marion except WCS is 7 feet. I can't really think of another big he plays like in terms of style/skill cause he's different to DJ/Chandler and these types even if they have similar roles.

His quickness, mobility, and size reminds me of KG's ability to defend 4 spots on the court. It seems his game is going to mirror Chandler's more, but I think Trill has a better offensive game than him, he just needs more confidence in his shot.

 

[Tetsujin]

The Willie interview has sort have become a work of art like a haiku.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/cauley-stein-cool-witness-how-cousins-plays

 

[KingMilz]

His quickness, mobility, and size reminds me of KG's ability to defend 4 spots on the court. It seems his game is going to mirror Chandler's more, but I think Trill has a better offensive game than him, he just needs more confidence in his shot.

I agree he has already more offensive touch than Chandler/DJ and imo with his quickness and fluidity could develop a face up 1-2 bounce game where he has a running hook going to the rim.

If the ROY was based on impact on winning even though guys like KAT /Zing/Turner have way more upside and better stats when it comes to straight up contributing to wins no other rookie right now can even touch him.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The play where Willie nearly blocked Paul George's 3 from the corner shows the kind of impact he could have as he studies more film and learns players/teams tendencies.

How many players could get to a 6'9" forward's shot in the corner as Willie came within an eyelash of doing?

Anthony Davis has the length, but not the same foot speed to get there. DeAndre Jordan and LeBron are the only guys I can think of.

 

[IfAt1st]

That was the fastest I've ever seen a big guy close out on a jump shooter.
He came a hair away from that block, and it almost seemed like he got there but just missed it.
Willie was almost a blur - the camera frame barely catches him onscreen before he's there.

And the play where Willie blocked the shot, then turned around instantly and beat most of both teams downcourt for the dunk was simply amazing.

 

[The Hammer]

The biggest factor might be his potential to become a transcendent defensive presence in this modern era of the NBA. His ability to guard so many positions and the perimeter could be the ticket.

This.

Willie is the new prototype, the new standard for a defensive player. You have to realize how fast he is. I'll say it again: he was not just the fasted big man (end to end) at the combine, he was the fastest PLAYER. The dude is a seven footer. That is just insane to have that kind of foot speed at that size. The NBA has never seen that before. Once he figures it out more (and figures out opponents), he's going to cause MAJOR problems for any other superstar except scoring point guards. The only guys I can think of that he might not be able to guard are the Westbrooks, Currys, Paul, etc. But any player in the league at positions 2-5... it's going to to seem unfair.

He will go down as one of the greatest defenders in history.

He also has a good BB IQ and court awareness. He hasn't even really worked on his offense too much, but you get the feeling that when he does, it'll come along pretty quickly. He just has that "talent" factor about him like Cuz... but just a bit more weighted to the defensive side.

 

[jcwkings]

This.

Willie is the new prototype, the new standard for a defensive player. You have to realize how fast he is. I'll say it again: he was not just the fasted big man (end to end) at the combine, he was the fastest PLAYER. The dude is a seven footer. That is just insane to have that kind of foot speed at that size. The NBA has never seen that before. Once he figures it out more (and figures out opponents), he's going to cause MAJOR problems for any other superstar except scoring point guards. The only guys I can think of that he might not be able to guard are the Westbrooks, Currys, Paul, etc. But any player in the league at positions 2-5... it's going to to seem unfair.

He will go down as one of the greatest defenders in history.

He also has a good BB IQ and court awareness. He hasn't even really worked on his offense too much, but you get the feeling that when he does, it'll come along pretty quickly. He just has that "talent" factor about him like Cuz... but just a bit more weighted to the defensive side.

I disagree that he is the new standard because guys like WCS don't just grow on trees. He is an outlier, you are unlikely to see a player come into the league with his size, quickness and speed for the next twenty years or heck longer.

 

[gunks]

Boogie/Trill is going to be such a nasty front court in a season or two.

I mean, they're already nasty, but both dudes are still improving! WCS's impact as a rookie (who wasnt getting time, then missed time) is insane. Cuz is.... well, Cuz. Lord only knows when he'll top out.

They're both freaks.

If smallball is a sickness, our Boogie/Trill frontcourt is the cure.

 

[The Hammer]

I disagree that he is the new standard because guys like WCS don't just grow on trees. He is an outlier, you are unlikely to see a player come into the league with his size, quickness and speed for the next twenty years or heck longer.

Yeah I didn't state what I meant exactly.

What I mean is closer to what you mean. Maybe "Gold Standard".

He'll be the ideal defender in the new NBA.

 

[bajaden]

Well if you really want to compare notes, Myles Turner was one of a few guys that I campaigned hard for and he just put up 31 points tonight so I don't feel like I've got my tail between my legs. I will agree though that I probably watched the wrong games and also jumped to some unfair conclusions because my impression of Cauley-Stein in college was very different than the player I've seen with the Kings. I probably watched him play only 12-15 games in those three years -- mostly because I don't like watching Kentucky play. Their style of offense since the title run has been irritating to me for some reason. It's rare that we disagree that drastically on a particular player though, so I had a feeling you knew something I didn't know.

Cousins has developed into such a force offensively (nipping at the heels of Kevin Durant for #3 on the scoring leader board right now) that a low usage player like Cauley-Stein is a perfect compliment. There were other bigs in this draft who can also protect the basket, but none of them run the floor like Cauley-Stein and that's made him a surprisingly effective contributor on offense for George Karl so far (and a great fit with Rondo as well). There's no real way to know how any other player would have fit with this team, but right now it's looking like Cauley-Stein could be the missing piece that gets us to start winning with some consistency. Although I do think some of my comments at the time were blown out of proportion (as tends to happen on draft day -- I'm guilty myself) I'm happy to eat a little crow if it means watching the Kings kick butt. Here's hoping George Karl continues putting him on the floor in the 4th quarter when we need him the most.

Well, I think most of our disagreements about Turner came from comparisons between Turner and Towns. I thought that Towns was the better player overall, but at no point did I think that Turner was bad player. I think Turner was sadly misused at Texas, which wasn't a surprise. I did share the same concerns of some scouts about his durability in the future. I think WCS is a far superior athlete to Turner, but there's no doubt that Turner is a a more skilled offensive player. Turner is a very good defender of the basket, but he can't guard on the perimeter like Willie can. There was a key matchup a year ago when Kentucky played Texas in an out of conference game, and WCS totally shut down Turner. No doubt that he had help from Towns as well. That's not an indictment of Turner by any means. Just one game, and since WCS wasn't considered a scorer, it's hard to say that Turner shut down Willie. But Turner couldn't stop Towns, and that was the key.

Bottom line is, that I think all three players are going to be very good players and a couple of them could be all stars, and maybe HOF players. Long way to go for the latter, and injuries can change everything. Derrick Rose anyone? For us, I agree with you. WCS is the perfect compliment to Cousins and it's no accident that we win the majority of our games when Willie is starting. Jordan was maybe the greatest player of all time, but take away Pippen, or some of the other great complimentary players, and he's still a great player, but he doesn't have all those championships. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. By the way, crow doesn't taste that bad. I've eaten quite a bit myself. Tabasco sauce helps!

 

[Dime Dropper]

https://streamable.com/ytk7

I'm not sure I've ever seen a 7 footer run the floor as fluidly and quickly as Willie. He's amazing to watch. Just changes our defense so much.