[Grades] Grades v. Kobe's Farewell And Our Mental Sloppiness

Since at the casual fan site 60% were ready to dump him last week: So how 'bout that Boogie?

  • Never doubted.

    Votes: 58 73.4%
  • Ok, ok, I'll give him an All Star vote

    Votes: 9 11.4%
  • I repent my Boogie sins and shall never doubt again!

    Votes: 4 5.1%
  • Nothing he can do will change my mind

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • I don't think we can ever build anything around him, so I still say trade him

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • A few good games doesn't change the fact he's a cancer. Good riddance.

    Votes: 4 5.1%

  • Total voters
    79
  • Poll closed .

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#61
Last nights game never should have come down to the last few seconds of the game. We played great for on half, and then part of another quarter before falling back into that casual go through the motions defense that just kills us. Our problem is that right now, we either don't have the talent, or perhaps the experience to turn it off, and then turn it back on quickly enough, when things start to go south. Instead, we panic and start playing like a team that's behind instead of ahead.

All the good teams, like the Warriors, Cav's etc. have lapses during the game, but when they sense the game starting to slide away from them, they hit the switch and put you away. Right now, the Kings think that their in that group, but their not. They need to sustain the intensity for the entire game. When we reach that awareness, we'll start to become consistent. However, it's a win, and we'll forget how we got it, or almost lost it in a month or so. I just hope we don't forget before the next game.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#62
If we lose in regulation with Cousins on the bench, the "screw" would have been greater.

To be fair, we were up 3, so they could only have tied it. That was why I at least was having the thought -- not sure Cuz could cover the 3pt line, and aware we might need him in OT.

Still, your star says he can go in that situation, he goes. Reminded of when Pop outsmarted himself and lost an NBA Finals over it, yanking Duncan at the end of the game and watching the Heat snag a rebound right where Duncan would have been standing and kicking the ball out to Allen for the game winning three.

Note my answer might be different if this was 2018 and WCS was healthy. Not without him though. And not as a rookie even with him.
 
#63
Normally, I'm happy for the Kings to get a win, even an ugly one. But this one was a major embarrassment, and on national TV no-less. And with our gym packed with Laker fans! Anytime the offense comes as easily as it did for us in the first half without having to fight for it defensively, it sets an unsustainable tone in which big leads are inevitably lost. Thus when the young Lakers started hitting their shots in the 2nd half, and with Cuz out of the game with foul trouble, we looked liked a team that didn't deserve to win. This was just a major embarrassment, and while we did get the win, we left a pile of ___ on the court for everyone to see.
It was not an embarrassment. It was more like a news flash for the rest of the country - "look at what this team puts us through. Imagine our suffering doing this several times each week." LOL
 
#64
I don't really care about all of the minor details, bottom line is that we let the Lakers shoot .553%. I keep thinking the Kings are maybe about to turn the corner, but it doesn't matter how good the offense is, you're not going to consistently win games without a drastically improved defense. Period.

I just keep wondering if George will ever attempt to make any improvements to his defensive schemes...it just seems so painfully obvious that his defensive philosophy is not working. I'm sure the players contribute to this as well, but this whole, "win games with offense only," just is not ever going to lead to the greatness that i feel this current roster is capable of. Sigh....
 
#65
The Kings are averaging 123 PPG in 2016 and have scored more points in all 4 games (142, 116, 116, 118) than any game in December!

Boogie has a TS% of 63.5% in 4 games to raise his TS% 53.5%! This benchmark is key to a successful playoff push in fact I say to make the playoffs Boogie needs to surpass his TS% best of 55.5% two seasons ago.

I speculated the first few weeks of the season Boogie could flirt with 56% to 58% TS% then his nightmare of December happened. (in which his subpar play cost us 6 games (PHI, POR, @WSH, @MIN, @OKC, @HOU).

Last night I counted 12 smart reads which is unofficial stat I came up with (The Blob Smart Read Stat :)) in which I award Boogie one point for every smart read he makes in the half-court. A smart read is a pass that progresses the attack of the offense. A smart read might lead to an assist, or it may be the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the basket (or miss), or it may just be finding the open guy instead of forcing a play that is not there.

So even though Boogie was credited with 7 assists he actually made 12 smart reads in the half court.

I think I can prove a correlation between smart reads by Boogie, the team points per game, and his TS% (since smart reads are often the opposite of settling for a low percentage shot), and accordingly whether the team wins. So much of the frustration in December with Boogie was trying to make players that are not there, not relying on his teammates, not playing with enough patience and poise.

There has been more concerted effort and balance between taking what is there and abusing smaller defenders and swinging the ball. I think this stems from getting healthier and getting more comfortable and confident playing with each other (40 games with new system and new players is a reasonable amount of time to "figure it out") and the 76er game as a slap in the face.

No one is going to be perfect with smart reads and you have to expect 2-3 turnovers per game with the amount of touches Boogie gets and defensive attention he receives but ideally these TOs are in context of a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. Boogie is 2.6:3.3 (assist to turnover) or 0.78:1 for his career. Assist:TO is a fine stat but I am not crazy about it for reasons I won't go into.

Regarding collapse before hanging on (1) teams go into cruise mode when thrashing an opponent they don't respect. (2) Boogie stopped defending except for one charge he took to avoid fouling out (3) the Kings desperately need a guy like Ben or Rudy or Darren to be a lockdown defender, and it is just not in their skill set. (Ben could be a good defender but * sigh * Coach Malone said something I always remember that to play good defense you have make the opponent feel you which is a way of saying you have be physical without fouling and Ben hasn't learned that yet.) The best perimeter defender might be Seth Curry (not James Anderson as Karl has said) but he hasn't been hitting his shots to get into the rotation consistently (4) Willie could have prevented the foolishness when Boogie went to the bench with 5 fouls by anchoring second (first) unit defense. He definitely would have kept Clarkson and Russell from finishing so easily at the rim. (6) Boogie addressed the whole team about mental lapses post game (per Karl) so I am sure we will never see anything like that ever again. ;)
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#66
To be fair, we were up 3, so they could only have tied it. That was why I at least was having the thought -- not sure Cuz could cover the 3pt line, and aware we might need him in OT.

Still, your star says he can go in that situation, he goes. Reminded of when Pop outsmarted himself and lost an NBA Finals over it, yanking Duncan at the end of the game and watching the Heat snag a rebound right where Duncan would have been standing and kicking the ball out to Allen for the game winning three.

Note my answer might be different if this was 2018 and WCS was healthy. Not without him though. And not as a rookie even with him.
Yeah, it's possible that we might have won that Dallas game if we would have had Willie for the last play of the game. Just put him on the ball where ever it is. He's quicker and taller than Gay. Not a sure thing, but I'd like a do over. He stopped almost the exact same play in the same corner against Notre Dame during March Maddness.
 
#68
Crazy thing is, we are just 3.5 out of the 6th spot. Memphis is very inconsistent this year. If we can get hot at some point and play .600 to .700 ball for a stretch, we may end up as high as 6th playing OKC or the Clips depending on how they play out.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#69
First thing that struck out to me is that LA tried to run the exact same play that Dallas did to try to tie the game. Other than that, a Laker was due to get a career high out the way and what better team to do it against than Sacramento and playing against "the best perimeter" defender in Seth and shorty Collison. Time and time again the Kings just allowed wide open three's...Acy was out for way too long of a stretch, can't believe I said that but his energy is obviously contagious. He is ferocious, plays 110% and feeds off of defense and banging players around. Three games and counting with Boogie and composure...Golden State will be a huge test for him as far as keeping a cool head. Bogut has gotten the best of him as of late and I'm anxious to see how he comes out this time around.
 
#70
Most people(Kings Fans) I talked to at work who went to the game had no problem cheering for the guy with his last game with us. I mean I know it's fun to hate the guy, but he does seem like he's changed quite a bit on many of the recent interviews I've listened to of him. Heck he's given credit to the Kings many times, and he didn't have to do that. I even heard him mention in an post game interview last year that the kings fans are some of the best and must loyal in the country. Again, he didn't have to say that.... Anyway, there only seemed to be a very small few kings fans that have absolute hatred towards the guy. .... I'm definitely going to watch missing him play.

On a side note: I really wish Grant and Jerry were broadcasting the game last night instead of TNT. While there are better announces than Grant and Jerry, TNT wasn't even calling the game half the time. Sometimes they were calling it and other times they were just chatting about players. I swear at one time there must have been a 5 different baskets before they even said anything about the plays. As annoying as Grant can be sometimes, at least he has a passion for the game and broadcasting and actually calling the game.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#71
Most people(Kings Fans) I talked to at work who went to the game had no problem cheering for the guy with his last game with us. I mean I know it's fun to hate the guy, but he does seem like he's changed quite a bit on many of the recent interviews I've listened to of him...
That comes as little consolation to those of us who were around for the worst of Kobe Bryant before he "changed." We don't owe it to him to overlook his past.
 
#72
I feel like that's taking things, like, three steps too far. I'm not going to tell anybody that they should be "happy" about the win, or that they shouldn't feel "embarrassed." But, a "major" embarrassment? No, a "major" embarrassment would have been if we had actually lost the game. A game where our All-Star looked good, even while in foul trouble, and the world got to watch us win does not rise to the level of "major" embarrassment, blown lead notwithstanding.

Nobody suffered a major injury, our mercurial star kept his composure, and impressed the national heads (he was the only guy in the game they would occasionally pause in their praise of Kobe Bryant to compliment), and we won a high profile game. Not even close to qualifying as a "major" embarrassment.
I understand the need to save a term like "major embarrassment" for when we play the way we did, but go on to lose the game! Clearly that would call for an elevation in terms, and what is there beyond "major embarrassment?" Well, now that I think about it, how about "extreme embarrassment?"
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#74
yea but some people treat him as if he's a mass murderer that slaughtered a million people or something.............
There are things that went on that not all basketball fans think should have been swept under the carpet. Let's leave it at that, okay? We didn't allow it to be argued/debated/discussed here on KF when it happened, and we're going to hold to the same rule now. If you admire Kobe, that's fine. But do not expect everyone to follow your lead.
 
#75
There are things that went on that not all basketball fans think should have been swept under the carpet. Let's leave it at that, okay? We didn't allow it to be argued/debated/discussed here on KF when it happened, and we're going to hold to the same rule now. If you admire Kobe, that's fine. But do not expect everyone to follow your lead.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate, but I will say that if Kobe was on the kings throughout the years, you would see ALOT different attitude. And nobody can argue with that point, that's just pure common sense. I've seen it time and time again in the NBA... Hell Shaq is a known complete jerk and ahole, but when he became involved with the Kings on a small level, I rarely saw people on here trashing him.......and although a few people didn't like the idea, most of them had no problem with it. . Most people on other teams, absolutely HATE Demarcus Cousins. All you have to do is read the opposing fan message boards to see that ..... Most non-king fans can't stand the guy......

I won't bring up the charges against him because I respect you not wanting it to be talked about here on the forum.

I understand your point and that there are MANY MANY reasons not to like the guy, but if he was on the Kings, it would be different, mark my words :)
 
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#76
It needs to be mentioned:

The Kings were one floater by Rondo away from losing that game to the GD Lakers.

Just think what would have happened to the season then.

It is highly possible that there would have been a player revolt or a fan revolt against Karl and his absurd schemes, or against Cuz for his past history.
Hell, the minority owners may well have had enough and forced drastic action, like last year's loss vs the Lakers facilitated the firing of Malone.

Karl's rotations are crap. Pretty much everyone knows that, and I refuse to believe Vlade, Vivek and the other owners don't know it.
I think the only thing keeping them out of Karl's face is his reputation. I am convinced they got in his face about his passivity on the bench and lack of fire, just collecting apaycheck, because the game after, he collected that unnecessary technical (IMO solely as a signal to the ownership that he listened).

If Rondo didn;t make that shot, and the Lakers won, I don;t think anything would have stopped them from reading Karl the relative riot act.

The key thing is - I don't think the Kings pulling out the win should remotely save Karl from getting the riot act run at him.
I think they should still call him to the carpet for the continual delusional coaching he's pulling in this stint with the Kings.

When you are up 25 points at home, what competent coach still has their team playing at the fastest pace in the NBA?
What competent coach would allow/encourage his players to shoot 3 pt shots with 19 seconds left on the clock?
What competent coach would continue to state he needs defenders on the team, when his schemes FORCE switches on P'n'Rs and cheating to cover the paint while leaving perimeter players open for 3's?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#77
I understand your point and that there are MANY MANY reasons not to like the guy, but if he was on the Kings, it would be different, mark my words :)
You have a much lower opinion of Kings fans, especially a lot of the ones who post here, than I. I'll simply counter with the comment that if Kobe had been on the Kings he might not have had the kind of attitude prevalent from players who sign with the Lakers...
 
#79
You have a much lower opinion of Kings fans, especially a lot of the ones who post here, than I. I'll simply counter with the comment that if Kobe had been on the Kings he might not have had the kind of attitude prevalent from players who sign with the Lakers...
I strongly don't agree with this.... When I went to a Kings game two yeas ago, there were several Kings fan who started a fight with a Laker fan. I saw the whole thing. The poor guy wasn't doing anything other than wearing a yellow jersey. The Kings fan through a punch at the Laker fan's face and luckily there happened to be a security fan to stop it. Yep, all Kings fans are angels........... Obviously have to disagree to disagree.
 
#80
I strongly don't agree with this.... When I went to a Kings game two yeas ago, there were several Kings fan who started a fight with a Laker fan. I saw the whole thing. The poor guy wasn't doing anything other than wearing a yellow jersey. The Kings fan through a punch at the Laker fan's face and luckily there happened to be a security fan to stop it. Yep, all Kings fans are angels........... Obviously have to disagree to disagree.
No not all Kings fans are angels. And not all Lakers fans are jerks. But sports live from rivalries to a certain point. And rivalries will lead to a strong dislike for the rival team and the players that are the face of this team.
Once Kobe admits, that the Kings should have won the Championship in 2002 I will give him some sort of credit for his career. I have no business with his personal live and won't judge that.
But until now the bitter feelings of being robbed by the league and the refs to give the championship to the NBA's posterboy remain and I would have certainly appreciated it, when Kobe's farewell in SAC would have been spoiled by boo's from Kings fans. In fact I almost turned off the TV when the "Kobe Kobe" chants rang through Sleep train. I "hate" this guy in a sportmanslike way.
 
#81
If anyone actually says with a straight face that Kings fans are just as bad as Laker fans, I would feel like committing bodily harm to them if I was closeby.

I don't care what kind of false equivalency is being used, there is a HUGE difference between Kings fans and Laker fans, it's not even close, and yes I'm being quite objective in saying that.

You'd have to be young, naive, a troll, or all threee, to even suggest that Kings fans are anywhere near as bad as Laker fans on the whole.
Many of us were not born yesterday.
Ignoring the corrupting influence that winning (and the obssession on winning over character/how you play) has on a franchise and fanbase (Lakers) is simply ignorant.
 
#82
No not all Kings fans are angels. And not all Lakers fans are jerks. But sports live from rivalries to a certain point. And rivalries will lead to a strong dislike for the rival team and the players that are the face of this team.
Once Kobe admits, that the Kings should have won the Championship in 2002 I will give him some sort of credit for his career. I have no business with his personal live and won't judge that.
But until now the bitter feelings of being robbed by the league and the refs to give the championship to the NBA's posterboy remain and I would have certainly appreciated it, when Kobe's farewell in SAC would have been spoiled by boo's from Kings fans. In fact I almost turned off the TV when the "Kobe Kobe" chants rang through Sleep train. I "hate" this guy in a sportmanslike way.

Regarding the quote you want from Kobe stating the Kings should have won , here it is right here straight from the Sacramento Bee on Jan 6th:

“(The Kings) should have won,” he said while seated at his locker in Staples Center late Sunday afternoon. “That was the second-toughest series ever after the 2010 Celtics (in the NBA Finals). Man, we couldn’t figure them out. It was like trying to catch smoke with your bare hands."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article53399020.html#storylink=cpy
 
#83
If anyone actually says with a straight face that Kings fans are just as bad as Laker fans, I would feel like committing bodily harm to them if I was closeby.

I don't care what kind of false equivalency is being used, there is a HUGE difference between Kings fans and Laker fans, it's not even close, and yes I'm being quite objective in saying that.

You'd have to be young, naive, a troll, or all threee, to even suggest that Kings fans are anywhere near as bad as Laker fans on the whole.
Many of us were not born yesterday.
Ignoring the corrupting influence that winning (and the obssession on winning over character/how you play) has on a franchise and fanbase (Lakers) is simply ignorant.

I do realize that there are more obnoxious rude arrogant Laker fans than kings fans, my point was that there are horrible kings. SF Giants fans are the worst though. Try visiting their message board during games. It's filled with nothing but hate towards other teams and even towards their own players... it's so sickening to read that I end up leaving after reading it for awhile.
 
#84
Regarding the quote you want from Kobe stating the Kings should have won , here it is right here straight from the Sacramento Bee on Jan 6th:

“(The Kings) should have won,” he said while seated at his locker in Staples Center late Sunday afternoon. “That was the second-toughest series ever after the 2010 Celtics (in the NBA Finals). Man, we couldn’t figure them out. It was like trying to catch smoke with your bare hands."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article53399020.html#storylink=cpy
Nope. This comment points into the right direction, but the stupid "they couldn't handle the pressure of the moment" is just another way to state, that the Lakers actually beat the Kings. Kobe is doing his best to please Kings fans here, but the Lakers didn't beat us. The Ref's and the league beat us. Kobe knows, that this championship is not his. He didn't earn it.
How about stating, that he only won another championship, because he was more marketable and had friends in the right places. Because honestly that's the truth.

And if I'm honest.....maybe there isn't anything Kobe can say, that would make the bitterness disappear. ;)
Thanks for sharing the quote with me. I didn't know he said that.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#85
I strongly don't agree with this.... When I went to a Kings game two yeas ago, there were several Kings fan who started a fight with a Laker fan. I saw the whole thing. The poor guy wasn't doing anything other than wearing a yellow jersey. The Kings fan through a punch at the Laker fan's face and luckily there happened to be a security fan to stop it. Yep, all Kings fans are angels........... Obviously have to disagree to disagree.
 
#86
Nope. This comment points into the right direction, but the stupid "they couldn't handle the pressure of the moment" is just another way to state, that the Lakers actually beat the Kings. Kobe is doing his best to please Kings fans here, but the Lakers didn't beat us. The Ref's and the league beat us. Kobe knows, that this championship is not his. He didn't earn it.
How about stating, that he only won another championship, because he was more marketable and had friends in the right places. Because honestly that's the truth.

And if I'm honest.....maybe there isn't anything Kobe can say, that would make the bitterness disappear. ;)
Thanks for sharing the quote with me. I didn't know he said that.
Nope. This comment points into the right direction, but the stupid "they couldn't handle the pressure of the moment" is just another way to state, that the Lakers actually beat the Kings. Kobe is doing his best to please Kings fans here, but the Lakers didn't beat us. The Ref's and the league beat us. Kobe knows, that this championship is not his. He didn't earn it.
How about stating, that he only won another championship, because he was more marketable and had friends in the right places. Because honestly that's the truth.

And if I'm honest.....maybe there isn't anything Kobe can say, that would make the bitterness disappear. ;)
Thanks for sharing the quote with me. I didn't know he said that.

Regardless, it wasn't Kobe's fault that the Lakers beat the Kings, it was the Refs, but everyone like to blame Kobe because "hey, let's just hate on Kobe, since we already hate him anyway!"

I bring up this point because Cousins is only somewhat better. It's easy to like Cousins because he's on our team and we see everything through rose tinted glasses, but everyone else who's not a Kings fan absolutely despises the guy!!!! if he was on the Lakers, we would be ripping on him left and right...... My point being, when a guy isn't on your team he's much easier to hate than when he is.....
I have some stories that i've read from fans that got absolutely treated like crap when they met Cousins and tried to be friendly to him in the past. Of course we only see what the media shows us and what's on TV, so we think he's a nice guy, but he's an ass. I'm not saying that Kobe is better than Cousins because he's obviously not. Cousins is more mature, just bringing this up because Cousins is on our team and thus our perception is bias is different.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#87
Regardless, it wasn't Kobe's fault that the Lakers beat the Kings, it was the Refs, but everyone like to blame Kobe because "hey, let's just hate on Kobe, since we already hate him anyway!"

I bring up this point because Cousins is only a little bit better. It's easy to like Cousins because he's on our team and we see everything through rose tinted glasses, but everyone else who's not a Kings fan absolutely despises the guy!!!! if he was on the Lakers, we would be ripping on him left and right...... My point being, when a guy isn't on your team he's much easier to hate than when he is.....
I have some stories from fans that got absolutely treated like crap when they met Cousins and tried to be friendly to him in the past. Of course we only see what the media shows us and what's on TV, so we think he's a nice guy, but he's an ass.
Okay, stop. This isn't about Cousins, this isn't about Kings fans being as disgusting as Laker fans. It doesn't matter how many strawmen you throw up, the fact will not change that there are Kings fans with deep feelings about Kobe which they are just as entitled to have as you are to have yours.

You think people around here haven't ripped on Cousins? What have you been reading?

Cousins has NO evidence of bad acts off the court, despite your unsubstantiated "stories from fans" allegation. I've personally seen "fans" go up to players while they're out with their families, and try and insist the players stop what they're doing and pose for pictures, sign autographs, etc. If the player doesn't respond positively, said fan just might feel entitled to spread a story about what a jerk that player was.

Kobe has left the building for the final time. I think we can safely put our feelings of him, regardless of what they are, to rest.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#88
Regardless, it wasn't Kobe's fault that the Lakers beat the Kings, it was the Refs, but everyone like to blame Kobe because "hey, let's just hate on Kobe, since we already hate him anyway!"

I bring up this point because Cousins is only somewhat better. It's easy to like Cousins because he's on our team and we see everything through rose tinted glasses, but everyone else who's not a Kings fan absolutely despises the guy!!!! if he was on the Lakers, we would be ripping on him left and right...... My point being, when a guy isn't on your team he's much easier to hate than when he is.....
I have some stories that i've read from fans that got absolutely treated like crap when they met Cousins and tried to be friendly to him in the past. Of course we only see what the media shows us and what's on TV, so we think he's a nice guy, but he's an ass. I'm not saying that Kobe is better than Cousins because he's obviously not. Cousins is more mature, just bringing this up because Cousins is on our team and thus our perception is bias is different.
Oddly the UK fanbase largely loved him because he was a teddy bear off court.
 
#89
Okay, stop. This isn't about Cousins, this isn't about Kings fans being as disgusting as Laker fans. It doesn't matter how many strawmen you throw up, the fact will not change that there are Kings fans with deep feelings about Kobe which they are just as entitled to have as you are to have yours.

You think people around here haven't ripped on Cousins? What have you been reading?

Cousins has NO evidence of bad acts off the court, despite your unsubstantiated "stories from fans" allegation. I've personally seen "fans" go up to players while they're out with their families, and try and insist the players stop what they're doing and pose for pictures, sign autographs, etc. If the player doesn't respond positively, said fan just might feel entitled to spread a story about what a jerk that player was.

Kobe has left the building for the final time. I think we can safely put our feelings of him, regardless of what they are, to rest.

You are wrong about Cousins, but that's okay, whatever.....as I said earlier, we'll just agree to disagree and stop talking about Satan(Kobe), moving on...........