They ran the P&R several times last night, but the guards seemed to forget the roll part of the equation, and when they did try to get the ball to the roller, they turned it over. I might add, that the Kings did play zone from time to time. The problem with a zone, is that it works better if you have big guards, because your going to end up with a guard on a SF or a PF from time to time. We had two average to undersized guards out there. It would have worked better if Anderson was playing SG instead of SF. The dribble drive offense works only as well as the players implementing it.
Of course I understand! I'm not happy about the situation. But I think you have to separate emotion from reality. It's not easy! I get angry and scream at my TV just like everyone else. But I try and put that behind me when I go to analyze the situation. Karl isn't responsible for anything that happened prior to his arrival. He deserves a fair fresh start and the patience that comes with that. Decisions made on emotion usually end up being bad decisions. Now if we still look this bad 30 games into the season, then that's another conversation. But we need to start looking like a well run NBA franchise. Firing a thousand win coach five games into the season doesn't fit that image.
In no way do I condone firing him. I am simply stating that the organization is unpredictable and that at any minute Vivek decides he doesn't want Karl anymore. Even if the Kings completely fall on their face for this season, I'd still let Karl ride the season out because you don't want that kind of rep hanging over your heads, not as if it isn't a trend all ready but this would be the cherry on top if he got canned.
I don't think many people in this thread actually advocate firing Karl (my assumption, but I sure don't). It's just a lot easier to swallow losses when you at least can see the plan, the reason behind the madness. All I'm asking for is effort, hustle and some semblance of identity; results are secondary and are only important insofar as creating some positive momentum this year. I think most are willing to give it 15-20 games to see how it shakes out, but some of the issues I see are pretty fundamental (and have been raised as soon as Karl was hired). More importantly, there's no visible evidence of change that'd at least point us in the right direction.
Again, calling for Karl's head is silly and impractical at this point, but without a discussion of what's currently wrong and how to fix it there'd be no fan message board, right?
Again, calling for Karl's head is silly and impractical at this point, but without a discussion of what's currently wrong and how to fix it there'd be no fan message board, right?
Karl should do the right thing and bow out, citing health.
He still (probably) gets paid. We can get a coach who will try to maximize the players on this roster instead of make everyone run around all fast.
And if he just quits, our reputation around the league doesn't take a hit! We'll stay right there in that sweet spot between laughingstock and dumpster fire.
My new Karl theory is that he wanted another pay day, but didn't want to work for it because of age/health. So, he figures he'd go to The Kings, stink it up, get fired, get paid!
Disclaimer: I'm being half serious/half bitter snarky with this post. Keep that in mind before responding, people....
He still (probably) gets paid. We can get a coach who will try to maximize the players on this roster instead of make everyone run around all fast.
And if he just quits, our reputation around the league doesn't take a hit! We'll stay right there in that sweet spot between laughingstock and dumpster fire.
My new Karl theory is that he wanted another pay day, but didn't want to work for it because of age/health. So, he figures he'd go to The Kings, stink it up, get fired, get paid!
Disclaimer: I'm being half serious/half bitter snarky with this post. Keep that in mind before responding, people....
As much as it has been painful for us Kings fans thus far in this young season we must be patient. DMC not playing doesn't help. We all know the team has a terrible record when DMC doesn't play and this terrible record stretches out between various coaches and not just under GC. Unfortunately, the players are taking longer to learn GC's system. A full pre-season with GC wasn't long enough- apparently. If the team doesn't have a satisfactory record after 25 games then we can panic. If that happens then we must look beyond the coaching and front office and really evaluate the players. After all, the players are the ones playing.
Not only what you say, but also: Vlade and Karl worked together in the offseason on this team. Vlade is no bystander here. Vlade knew full well what Karl wanted to run as his system, and he went out and did his best to find players he thought fit the system. For Vlade to fire Karl for the system that he knew he was going to implement would be the height of hypocrisy.
Look, Karl has his system (dribble drive), Adleman had his (princeton), and Jackson has his (triangle), and none of those guys are suddenly going to change to another system when the system they've using has been successful everywhere they've gone. The interesting thing about all three of those systems, is that players like playing in them. So Karl isn't suddenly going to become a halfcourt guru. He'll change his lineup or players before changing his system. I think your seeing the beginning of that with McLemore going to the bench. Losing Cousins screwed up the learning process. If this group had been together for a few years, it would have been easier to compensate for not having Cousins in the lineup. But these guys are still learning each others habits. With Cousins in the lineup, especially with WCS playing along side of him, you didn't see many, if any backdoor baskets.
Four times in last nights game, twice with WCS on the floor, and twice with Koufos on the floor, they each left their man to stop ball penetration, and all four times, no one, probably Gay, rotated over to cover their man, and it resulted in four dunks behind their backs. That didn't happen with Cuz and WCS or Koufos and Cuz, or WCS and Koufos. Bottom line, Gay isn't a PF, and defensively he's not used to making the adjustments that a PF would normally make. Doesn't mean he can't learn, but it's not going to happen overnight. I'm not trying to be an apologist for Karl. I'm trying to be a realist. Normally when a new coach comes in and takes over a team that's been bad for the last decade, they give him three years to turn it around. Like Malone's first year, when no one expected him to win. Unfortunately for Karl, everyone expects him to work a miracle and make the team into a contender right now. Well, a team isn't instant rice. It's more like a slow cooker. However, I suspect that Karl is pulling out the pressure cooker right now.
Four times in last nights game, twice with WCS on the floor, and twice with Koufos on the floor, they each left their man to stop ball penetration, and all four times, no one, probably Gay, rotated over to cover their man, and it resulted in four dunks behind their backs. That didn't happen with Cuz and WCS or Koufos and Cuz, or WCS and Koufos. Bottom line, Gay isn't a PF, and defensively he's not used to making the adjustments that a PF would normally make. Doesn't mean he can't learn, but it's not going to happen overnight. I'm not trying to be an apologist for Karl. I'm trying to be a realist. Normally when a new coach comes in and takes over a team that's been bad for the last decade, they give him three years to turn it around. Like Malone's first year, when no one expected him to win. Unfortunately for Karl, everyone expects him to work a miracle and make the team into a contender right now. Well, a team isn't instant rice. It's more like a slow cooker. However, I suspect that Karl is pulling out the pressure cooker right now.
Nik, Nik, Nik. Ben, Ben, Ben. So focused on whose fault it is that we're losing that all objective analysis is completely gone.
Nick is in a different situatuon. Not playing with guys who take all the balls. Absolutely no pressure to win and playing in the East. When Nik was here, he crumbled under the pressure.
Ben doesn't matter. Never did. You can switch Nik in his place. Anderson, Collison, Curry and it won't matter. The only thing that matters is what Gay and Cuz do.
We benched Ben and nothing got better. Did no one pay attention? Ben plays a couple minutes, shoots 70% and our game analysis is Ben sucks. Thec reality is the TEAM is not as good as we wish they were. Maybe they'll be better by years end, but reality is it doesn't matter how far down the bench you dig. The only players that make this thing go is Cuz and Gay.
Nick is in a different situatuon. Not playing with guys who take all the balls. Absolutely no pressure to win and playing in the East. When Nik was here, he crumbled under the pressure.
Ben doesn't matter. Never did. You can switch Nik in his place. Anderson, Collison, Curry and it won't matter. The only thing that matters is what Gay and Cuz do.
We benched Ben and nothing got better. Did no one pay attention? Ben plays a couple minutes, shoots 70% and our game analysis is Ben sucks. Thec reality is the TEAM is not as good as we wish they were. Maybe they'll be better by years end, but reality is it doesn't matter how far down the bench you dig. The only players that make this thing go is Cuz and Gay.
Difference is, those coaches had the personnel to implement their systems. I'm not convinced we do currently. I hope to be wrong, but early returns (talking last season and this one) are not great, even though I'm willing to be patient. I also don't think it's reasonable to give Karl 3 years to turn it around. Fair or not, we have exactly one year (this one) - if Karl doesn't turn it around this year, or get close to it, this franchise is at risk of being set back another decade. My big problem is that I don't think Karl is that motivated to turn it around, or at least I don't see it from him. He seems more interested in implementing what he knows rather than try to come up with something that fits. He is a HoF coach for a reason, so there's a chance it'll work. I'm certainly hoping that in 15 games we'll look back and laugh about it, but given the overall circumstances these are very valid questions to raise.
The offense is a terrible fit for this personel, anyone can see a dribble drive offense cant work when no one on the team can dribble penetrate comsistantly and finish at the rim. The guys look very uninspired on defense and since we want to push the ball so fast timeouts are not being called when a key defensive assignment is missed, its almost as if the guys think its fine to give up a hoop as long as we push the ball at all costs.
Which means next to nothing as stauskas is actually shooting even worse than Ben so far. It's true, look it up. I didn't think it was possible. Nik is also shooting worse than he did last year in an extremely small sample size.
I'll grant you he's playing better than Ben. Although Ben would put up similar numbers in philly if he, like Nik, got to launch 14 3's while playing for what barely passes for an NBA team. That is more 3 attempts in one game than Ben has this season. Almost twice as many. Ben has taken 8, Nik average 8.7 attempts per game.
http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/05/ni...ree-pointers-had-a-dunk-blocked-by-a-plumlee/
I'll grant you he's playing better than Ben. Although Ben would put up similar numbers in philly if he, like Nik, got to launch 14 3's while playing for what barely passes for an NBA team. That is more 3 attempts in one game than Ben has this season. Almost twice as many. Ben has taken 8, Nik average 8.7 attempts per game.
http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/05/ni...ree-pointers-had-a-dunk-blocked-by-a-plumlee/
Let me slow down and back it up for you…
I originally said “I think the majority of us would agree that our team is more talented” when talking about the Kings compared to the Nuggets. You suggested the statement I made was an assumption. I agreed. I said I made an assumption based off the posts on this forum. I haven’t once read a post that has mentioned the Nuggets as a team that would compete for the playoffs. However, I have read many posts that suggest the Kings, Mavs, Pelicans, Jazz, and Suns will all be challengers for the 7th & 8th seed. Since I have never seen a post about the Nuggets as a playoff threat, it’s natural to assume that the majority of us believe we are a more talented team. So when I said “I think the majority of us would agree that our team is more talented,” it’s not like I’m pulling that out of thin air. It’s pulled from the observance of this board, and again, since I have never read a post that hints at the Nuggets being a playoff team, I would say my assumption is stronger than someone who would say “I think the majority of us would agree that our team is less talented than the Nuggets.”
I originally said “I think the majority of us would agree that our team is more talented” when talking about the Kings compared to the Nuggets. You suggested the statement I made was an assumption. I agreed. I said I made an assumption based off the posts on this forum. I haven’t once read a post that has mentioned the Nuggets as a team that would compete for the playoffs. However, I have read many posts that suggest the Kings, Mavs, Pelicans, Jazz, and Suns will all be challengers for the 7th & 8th seed. Since I have never seen a post about the Nuggets as a playoff threat, it’s natural to assume that the majority of us believe we are a more talented team. So when I said “I think the majority of us would agree that our team is more talented,” it’s not like I’m pulling that out of thin air. It’s pulled from the observance of this board, and again, since I have never read a post that hints at the Nuggets being a playoff team, I would say my assumption is stronger than someone who would say “I think the majority of us would agree that our team is less talented than the Nuggets.”
Well that escalated quickly.
After such high hopes, this is not a well coached team. We are dead last in FT% (64.0) and Opponent's FG% (50.4). It's scary how close those numbers are to each other. We actually had a 24 second clock violation coming out at halftime, I can't remember the last time I saw that.
Solutions as I see it:
1. Stop with the Pace nonsense. We are play at the 2nd highest Pace (#1 being the poor Pelicans) and it's not doing us any favors. As far as I can tell all the blow layups and free throws are all from tired legs, since it seems like they are all short.
2. Rudy Gay is not a Power Forward, please don't do that every again. Karl needs to forfeit his salary for that Memphis game for asking him to guard Zach Randolph.
3. Rondo has lost a step. I know it's sad but he needs to come off the bench and Collison needs to start. Rondo just can't stay in front of his man well enough to start.
4. Please keep WCS at Power Forward, let Koufos and Moreland man the center spot. We drafted him to be a weak side shot blocker, let him roam and help our wings.
5. Caron Butler is done. I always liked him, but he is strictly garbage time/veteran leadership at this point.
6. Omri has to vary up his dribble drives; defenses already know he is going to the basket when he puts his head down.
7. No more Rudy Gay isos, please. It's not working.
8. Collison is one of the best Pick and Roll players in the league. That should be your goto play.
9. Koufos is the best screener we have had since Brad Miller, we should be running Belinelli off screens every time he is on the court. Right now we aren't reading or reacting.
10. They're called timeouts Karl, you should try it sometime.
Oh and 11. Trade Ben McLemore for something, anything. That's twice in the first five games he's clobbered someone shooting a 3. He putting up a PER of 2.3 in 5 games. If he is ever going to be an NBA player it won't be here.
After such high hopes, this is not a well coached team. We are dead last in FT% (64.0) and Opponent's FG% (50.4). It's scary how close those numbers are to each other. We actually had a 24 second clock violation coming out at halftime, I can't remember the last time I saw that.
Solutions as I see it:
1. Stop with the Pace nonsense. We are play at the 2nd highest Pace (#1 being the poor Pelicans) and it's not doing us any favors. As far as I can tell all the blow layups and free throws are all from tired legs, since it seems like they are all short.
2. Rudy Gay is not a Power Forward, please don't do that every again. Karl needs to forfeit his salary for that Memphis game for asking him to guard Zach Randolph.
3. Rondo has lost a step. I know it's sad but he needs to come off the bench and Collison needs to start. Rondo just can't stay in front of his man well enough to start.
4. Please keep WCS at Power Forward, let Koufos and Moreland man the center spot. We drafted him to be a weak side shot blocker, let him roam and help our wings.
5. Caron Butler is done. I always liked him, but he is strictly garbage time/veteran leadership at this point.
6. Omri has to vary up his dribble drives; defenses already know he is going to the basket when he puts his head down.
7. No more Rudy Gay isos, please. It's not working.
8. Collison is one of the best Pick and Roll players in the league. That should be your goto play.
9. Koufos is the best screener we have had since Brad Miller, we should be running Belinelli off screens every time he is on the court. Right now we aren't reading or reacting.
10. They're called timeouts Karl, you should try it sometime.
Oh and 11. Trade Ben McLemore for something, anything. That's twice in the first five games he's clobbered someone shooting a 3. He putting up a PER of 2.3 in 5 games. If he is ever going to be an NBA player it won't be here.
From the eyetest I would guess, that our halfcourt offense is even worse, than our transition offense. No wonder we play at a very high pace.
Slowing it down again will only be successful, when the team can get back to the pretty high level of defense they played the frist stretch of last season under Malone.
But I'm not convinced, that this would be possible. Our defense is even worse than our offense right now.
And our defense was bad for the majority of last season and for the 13/14 season under Malone aswell.
Do we have what it takes to be a slow, gritty, grind it out team for a whole season? Does this playstyle still work?
Slowing it down again will only be successful, when the team can get back to the pretty high level of defense they played the frist stretch of last season under Malone.
But I'm not convinced, that this would be possible. Our defense is even worse than our offense right now.
And our defense was bad for the majority of last season and for the 13/14 season under Malone aswell.
Do we have what it takes to be a slow, gritty, grind it out team for a whole season? Does this playstyle still work?
We probably do, and it probably does,
But our playstyle doesn't have to go to the extremes, and embody either the essence of grit & grind (like MEM?) or the soul of run & gun (like GSW?).
We should find our middle-way or combinatn of the two, the levrl that best suits our roster (or our stars).
In fact - I think the best strategy is to switch between styles in the course of the game(!) according to active lineups or even on a mark, but such changes would take a long time for the players to get used to.
But our playstyle doesn't have to go to the extremes, and embody either the essence of grit & grind (like MEM?) or the soul of run & gun (like GSW?).
We should find our middle-way or combinatn of the two, the levrl that best suits our roster (or our stars).
In fact - I think the best strategy is to switch between styles in the course of the game(!) according to active lineups or even on a mark, but such changes would take a long time for the players to get used to.