http://www.si.com/nba/2015/08/10/dr...-james-kevin-durant-chris-paul?xid=nl_siextra
And yes, there's a reason I put this in the Kings Rap forum.
And yes, there's a reason I put this in the Kings Rap forum.
SI: Dream Team 2016: LeBron James, Anthony Davis lead SI's 12-man roster
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With the whole Davis vs. Cousins Team USA debate, I would probably determine who to start based off of who else is starting. Obviously, LeBron and KD are starters. Therefore, one of them has to play the 3 and the other the 4 in international competition. With those two starting, you want the best paint protector out there because neither KD nor LeBron are rim protectors, therefore, I would start AD. However, if I am using a lineup that has two PG's like Steph and CP3, I start Boogie. If Kevin Love or the Manimal are my 4 then I start Boogie. If Love makes the team and starts, I want Boogie down low to board and work. If the Manimal makes the team, Boogie has to play along side of him for the outlet passes and to bruise.
The #1 reason, aside from pure talent, that Boogie makes this team is .... SPAIN. With the Gasol brothers, you have to have Boogie out there. Grant it, the last Olympics were a little quirky with Spain getting upset but I don't see that happening again.
The #1 reason, aside from pure talent, that Boogie makes this team is .... SPAIN. With the Gasol brothers, you have to have Boogie out there. Grant it, the last Olympics were a little quirky with Spain getting upset but I don't see that happening again.
This is a Kings forum, so there will be a natural bias towards Cuz, but Davis is the clear right target to start for USA basketball. We're built around Bron, KD, CP3, Harden, etc. Cuz is duplicative of those guys because his best asset is his ability to score the ball. Davis is the better defender, better in transition and better in the PnR. And if we're looking at it objectively, he's better than Cuz right now too. Which isn't a knock on Cuz, just how utterly brilliant Davis has become.
But he absolutely should be on the team, if not just to have somebody body up the Gasol brothers.
But he absolutely should be on the team, if not just to have somebody body up the Gasol brothers.
Uh, no. Better at some things, but not the more dominant player right now. And Cuz's game is far better suited for postseason success. Davis isn't physical enough, and the Warriors showed just that. I know it's the en vogue thing to fall in love with Anthony Davis' game and his unique skill set - but he's had better talent around him than Cuz and hasn't really accomplished all that much more. An 8th seed 3 and out isn't much to brag upon. Let's see what Cuz can do with similar talent around him and, more importantly, how he can impact a playoff game with his physical style and post skills. I know one thing for sure, he won't be stopped consistently in the key moments by an undersized Draymond Green as both Davis and Marc Gasol were.
Sacramento Kings @SacramentoKings 3m3 minutes ago
DMC finishes with 18pts, 11rebs, 2asts, 2stls & Rudy tallied 9pts & 2asts. #USABMNT
DMC finishes with 18pts, 11rebs, 2asts, 2stls & Rudy tallied 9pts & 2asts. #USABMNT
I would disagree with Davis being better than Cousins right now. I cant quantify my assertion that Cousins is better using statistics because theyre similar to eachother using basic statistics. Its Cousins's offensive versatility and overall scoring dominance that make him the superior player. I like Davis alot but not quite as much as everyone else. I believe hes a fools gold type of player in the sense that no player that isnt well suited to manufacture points at the end of a game is worth the type of money that the Pelicans will be paying Davis. I also dont think that a top 5-10 player in the league would be guilty of such a shortfall.
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"And Cuz's game is far better suited for postseason success."- I disagree. first off what is that notion based on exactly? since we've never been to the playoffs with Cousins, and second it's not like AD was bad at the playoffs here are his stats:
31.5 points, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks and 1.3 steals on 54 FG% and drawing 9 FT's which he made at 88.9% clip.
these are historic numbers on very good efficiency, against one of the best defenses in the league- so I'm not really sure where the "not suited for postseason success" is coming from.
"but he's had better talent around him than Cuz and hasn't really accomplished all that much more."- may I remind you that we haven't crossed 29 wins in the 5 years Cousins is here (again not his fault)? you wouldn't consider 45 wins on his 3rd season, a playoff spot in the west and an exit against THE NBA CHANPIONS as accomplishing more?
and just for the point of this argument, how much better the talent around him really was? with all of the injuries the Pelicans played Norris Cole (I'd take Ray over him 11 times out of 10) 24.4 MPG, Luke Babbitt was starting for them for a long period, Johh Salmons was a rotation player and Jimmer Fredette played meaningful minutes there for 50 games... the only NOP major player that didn't miss a lot of time is Tyreke (which most here will take Rudy before him) and even when he played a guy like Ryan Anderson who was supposed to be a big part of this team had a very bad season all-around (34% from 3, for example).
And about his dominance, having the highest PER in the league is a pretty good showing of that. and just for fun here are 2 stat lines:
24.4 PTS, 10.2 REB, 2.2 AST, 2.9 BLK, 1.5 STL, 53.5 FG%, 6.8 FTA, 80.5 FT%, 1.4 TO.
17.1 PTS, 9.9 REB, 2.7 AST, 0.7 BLK, 1.4 STL, 46.5 FG%, 5.6 FTA, 73.8 FT%, 3.0 TO.
The first one is 3rd year AD, the second is 3rd year Cousins- and no, it's not very close.
31.5 points, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks and 1.3 steals on 54 FG% and drawing 9 FT's which he made at 88.9% clip.
these are historic numbers on very good efficiency, against one of the best defenses in the league- so I'm not really sure where the "not suited for postseason success" is coming from.
"but he's had better talent around him than Cuz and hasn't really accomplished all that much more."- may I remind you that we haven't crossed 29 wins in the 5 years Cousins is here (again not his fault)? you wouldn't consider 45 wins on his 3rd season, a playoff spot in the west and an exit against THE NBA CHANPIONS as accomplishing more?
and just for the point of this argument, how much better the talent around him really was? with all of the injuries the Pelicans played Norris Cole (I'd take Ray over him 11 times out of 10) 24.4 MPG, Luke Babbitt was starting for them for a long period, Johh Salmons was a rotation player and Jimmer Fredette played meaningful minutes there for 50 games... the only NOP major player that didn't miss a lot of time is Tyreke (which most here will take Rudy before him) and even when he played a guy like Ryan Anderson who was supposed to be a big part of this team had a very bad season all-around (34% from 3, for example).
And about his dominance, having the highest PER in the league is a pretty good showing of that. and just for fun here are 2 stat lines:
24.4 PTS, 10.2 REB, 2.2 AST, 2.9 BLK, 1.5 STL, 53.5 FG%, 6.8 FTA, 80.5 FT%, 1.4 TO.
17.1 PTS, 9.9 REB, 2.7 AST, 0.7 BLK, 1.4 STL, 46.5 FG%, 5.6 FTA, 73.8 FT%, 3.0 TO.
The first one is 3rd year AD, the second is 3rd year Cousins- and no, it's not very close.
I have to agree with posters who are arguing that Davis might be better than Cousins. First, he's a couple years younger, has already been on an All NBA First team, and been the the All-Star game twice (which is an arbitrary accolade, I realize). I don't think the gap in talent is as big as the media has hyped it to be, but AD truly does look like the successor to the "best player" throne after LeBron and KD. I think comparing the two isn't necessary, but I think to consider AD not a generational talent is either underselling him or overselling Cousins.
DeMarcus' biggest knock is that he didn't play the PR game and he plays for the lowly Kings. Which I say, whatever. I'd rather continue to have the best kept secret in the NBA.
DeMarcus' biggest knock is that he didn't play the PR game and he plays for the lowly Kings. Which I say, whatever. I'd rather continue to have the best kept secret in the NBA.
That's a better argument if both guys were the same age. As it is last year the media myth that somehow A.D. was this great amazing thing vs. oh, well Cousins is probably good enough to back up Marc Gasol, maybe, if DeAndre isn't better, was ridiculous.
We all know Cousins got a later break than A.D.. Some of that was him. Some of that also the catastrophic circumstances he fell into. In case anybody's forgotten that 3rd year, under Keith Smart, was conducted under the constant full season circus of the Ballmer/Hansen/Seattle war to save the team. To say it was a constant distraction with the owners less than invested would be an understatement.
The very next season Cousins went from:
17.1pts (.465 .738) 9.9reb 2.7ast 1.4stl 0.7blk 3.0TO
to
22.7pts (.496 .726) 11.7reb 2.9ast 1.5stl 1.3blk 3.5TO
and it wasn't because suddenly over that summer Cousins learned how to play.
More importantly this past season the myth being perpetrated was that this:
36.1min 24.4pts (.591TS%) 10.2reb 2.2ast 1.5stl 2.9blk 1.4TO 4.20DPRM
was somehow completely out of the league of this:
34.1min 24.1pts (.545TS%) 12.7reb 3.6ast 1.5stl 1.7blk 4.3TO 4.71DPRM
and no, its not. Its more efficient. I have no problem with somebody saying Davis had a better season. But its far from a separate class of player.
Frankly I think Boogie is more talented than Anthony Davis. He can do more things. Davis can;t handle like he can, pass like he can,. play physically. Every time they play each other Cousins treats Davis like a child and just bounces him out of the way. But Davis is like a perfect stay in your lane model of efficiency. he doesn't create, and hence he doesn't turn it over. he let's other guys set him up, and hence he stays efficient. He's a perfect metric creation. I'm not convinced that is the same thing as as perfect basketball creation.
In any case, this year under Gentry I suspect that Davis is going to put up some huge numbers, scoring at least. I am looking at it like what happened with Ewing when Pitino took over for a few years, or Admiral when they really started running with him around the time of his MVP. They'll run up and down the court, Davis is an incredibly long gazelle, and I would expect him to maybe score like 28ppg or some such. Think that's very possible. But I will also retain my softness suspicions about any long skinny off the ball runner pumping up open court scoring stats. When it comes down to it the true great player playoff test comes when the games slow down and you need to be able to throw the ball to your best player and have him beat a tough defense that's dug in like a tick on a hound.
We all know Cousins got a later break than A.D.. Some of that was him. Some of that also the catastrophic circumstances he fell into. In case anybody's forgotten that 3rd year, under Keith Smart, was conducted under the constant full season circus of the Ballmer/Hansen/Seattle war to save the team. To say it was a constant distraction with the owners less than invested would be an understatement.
The very next season Cousins went from:
17.1pts (.465 .738) 9.9reb 2.7ast 1.4stl 0.7blk 3.0TO
to
22.7pts (.496 .726) 11.7reb 2.9ast 1.5stl 1.3blk 3.5TO
and it wasn't because suddenly over that summer Cousins learned how to play.
More importantly this past season the myth being perpetrated was that this:
36.1min 24.4pts (.591TS%) 10.2reb 2.2ast 1.5stl 2.9blk 1.4TO 4.20DPRM
was somehow completely out of the league of this:
34.1min 24.1pts (.545TS%) 12.7reb 3.6ast 1.5stl 1.7blk 4.3TO 4.71DPRM
and no, its not. Its more efficient. I have no problem with somebody saying Davis had a better season. But its far from a separate class of player.
Frankly I think Boogie is more talented than Anthony Davis. He can do more things. Davis can;t handle like he can, pass like he can,. play physically. Every time they play each other Cousins treats Davis like a child and just bounces him out of the way. But Davis is like a perfect stay in your lane model of efficiency. he doesn't create, and hence he doesn't turn it over. he let's other guys set him up, and hence he stays efficient. He's a perfect metric creation. I'm not convinced that is the same thing as as perfect basketball creation.
In any case, this year under Gentry I suspect that Davis is going to put up some huge numbers, scoring at least. I am looking at it like what happened with Ewing when Pitino took over for a few years, or Admiral when they really started running with him around the time of his MVP. They'll run up and down the court, Davis is an incredibly long gazelle, and I would expect him to maybe score like 28ppg or some such. Think that's very possible. But I will also retain my softness suspicions about any long skinny off the ball runner pumping up open court scoring stats. When it comes down to it the true great player playoff test comes when the games slow down and you need to be able to throw the ball to your best player and have him beat a tough defense that's dug in like a tick on a hound.
I'm basing it off the history of how playoff games are played. It's kind of like how baseball is typically dominated by power pitching in the post season. In basketball, they allow teams to play much more physically - which favors physical post players. Anybody that's been following the game for a long time should know this.
Furthermore, I'm also basing it off not only what I know about Davis' game - which isn't built around physicality - and what I saw last April. I don't care what his stats indicate, when they game came down to the last 2 minutes, the Warriors were able to keep Davis away from the basket. They were also able to get away with defending him with a smaller defender because that player was overly physical with him. I may be wrong, but I don't see that happening with DeMarcus as he punishes smaller players.
In short, I believe that DeMarcuss style of play is much more conducive to playoff basketball.
Furthermore, I'm also basing it off not only what I know about Davis' game - which isn't built around physicality - and what I saw last April. I don't care what his stats indicate, when they game came down to the last 2 minutes, the Warriors were able to keep Davis away from the basket. They were also able to get away with defending him with a smaller defender because that player was overly physical with him. I may be wrong, but I don't see that happening with DeMarcus as he punishes smaller players.
In short, I believe that DeMarcuss style of play is much more conducive to playoff basketball.
I agree with that.
AD is a good defender, but he is a bit overrated defensively and Cousins is underrated defensively- right now, they are not in a different calss. if we are looking at last season you could make a strong case Cousins was better defensively than AD- but I do think that AD has more defensive potential.
Where AD is better than Cousins is efficiency, he scores almost the same amount of points on far lower usage (and this is why I expect him to blow up this year under better coaching) with lower numbers of TO's and higher shooting percentages.
AD is a good defender, but he is a bit overrated defensively and Cousins is underrated defensively- right now, they are not in a different calss. if we are looking at last season you could make a strong case Cousins was better defensively than AD- but I do think that AD has more defensive potential.
Where AD is better than Cousins is efficiency, he scores almost the same amount of points on far lower usage (and this is why I expect him to blow up this year under better coaching) with lower numbers of TO's and higher shooting percentages.
Davis is kind of a Cousins/WCS hybrid. Does a bit of what both men do. What makes him easier to build around is that he can be placed next to a big bruiser, a shot blocker or a stretch 4. Cousins isn't as versatile in that way.
1 on 1, I'll take Cousins all day, every day. He will put up better numbers than Davis more often than not.
Against the rest of the league, Davis might be better due to his all around game being just a tick better than Cousins. He's more efficient than big Cuz. Yeah if you want the ball in one of their hands to make a play at the end of the game, you pick Cousins. With Davis you may not be in that situation because he might have converted on a bucket earlier in the game that Cousins missed. So it's kind of pick your poison there. In the playoffs where the game slows down, I think Cousins will be the better player but it's kind of silly to say that when he hasn't even sniffed the playoffs yet. Time will tell.
The Pelicans didn't have a great roster and they made it to the playoffs so the man is obviously having some sort of impact for them. We will see where Cousins is this year now that he has more talent to work with.
1 on 1, I'll take Cousins all day, every day. He will put up better numbers than Davis more often than not.
Against the rest of the league, Davis might be better due to his all around game being just a tick better than Cousins. He's more efficient than big Cuz. Yeah if you want the ball in one of their hands to make a play at the end of the game, you pick Cousins. With Davis you may not be in that situation because he might have converted on a bucket earlier in the game that Cousins missed. So it's kind of pick your poison there. In the playoffs where the game slows down, I think Cousins will be the better player but it's kind of silly to say that when he hasn't even sniffed the playoffs yet. Time will tell.
The Pelicans didn't have a great roster and they made it to the playoffs so the man is obviously having some sort of impact for them. We will see where Cousins is this year now that he has more talent to work with.
At the same time, Cousins's scoring average went up to something like 27 or so (give or take a point, I forget) with Karl as coach last season. Davis may not be the only one seeing a rise in scoring. Also, let's not forget the effect Rondo will have. Cousins is about to get some of the easiest and best scoring opportunities of his NBA career. Rondo is a beast at setting up easy baskets and easier scoring opportunities for his teammates and I fully expect Cousins to benefit from this, as he should. Look for his efficiency to risk significantly as well, with less TOs.