Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]
- Thread starter hrdboild
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Is there a single good reason why we'd even entertain Lawson or be in this conversation if it weren't for Karl? Just stop with the whole going after comfort crap.
Draft wisely, use our cap space to plug a more serious weakness, either SG or PF depending on our pick, then try to attract a cheap 3&D guy or two. That's really all we can do unless we work the trade market until 2016 and the huge cap rise.
But killing off our draft pick for Lawson? That too short-sided and too much of a lack of an upgrade where we don't need it to get me to support it. #6 for Holiday? I'll listen.
Draft wisely, use our cap space to plug a more serious weakness, either SG or PF depending on our pick, then try to attract a cheap 3&D guy or two. That's really all we can do unless we work the trade market until 2016 and the huge cap rise.
But killing off our draft pick for Lawson? That too short-sided and too much of a lack of an upgrade where we don't need it to get me to support it. #6 for Holiday? I'll listen.
Again as for the Hezonja pick, if this kid is Vlade's guy I really don't mind and I will support him because:
1 - Hezonja for me is still the best wing in this draft
2 - He can play SG/SF which will not force our hand to trade 1 of Ben or Nik because he can start as Rudy's back-up SF
3 - Since our rookie start as a back-up, then it would be clear that Vlade believes that no rookie at #6 can bring turn this team into a playoff contender. So the real measuring stick would be who will Vlade add and drop from this team when free agents are ready to be signed.
1 - Hezonja for me is still the best wing in this draft
2 - He can play SG/SF which will not force our hand to trade 1 of Ben or Nik because he can start as Rudy's back-up SF
3 - Since our rookie start as a back-up, then it would be clear that Vlade believes that no rookie at #6 can bring turn this team into a playoff contender. So the real measuring stick would be who will Vlade add and drop from this team when free agents are ready to be signed.
On the Dekker work out, I hope we are looking at chances to trade down and get another vet in return.
I'm still not giving up on getting Ibaka from the Thunder actually.
They are already at 76M and still about to give a big money to Kanter, who I think their management would compliment Westbrook better by not clogging the lane.
Winslow would be a guy that the Thunder could secretly be after, see Harden+defense comparison of Winslow.
So I'll cross my fingers on that.
I'm still not giving up on getting Ibaka from the Thunder actually.
They are already at 76M and still about to give a big money to Kanter, who I think their management would compliment Westbrook better by not clogging the lane.
Winslow would be a guy that the Thunder could secretly be after, see Harden+defense comparison of Winslow.
So I'll cross my fingers on that.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/whos-that-guy-future-lottery-pick-mario-hezonja/
Good article on Mario
Good article on Mario
Not only do I not want Lawson because of the lack of fit, the fact that we already have a PG that fits well with our main guys and can defend, and losing out on a top 6 talent, but trading #6 for Lawson has another downside that some people don't seem to realize. You're not just trading Lawson for #6. You're trading Lawson for #6 and all of our cap space.
If we were capable of signing a guy like Matthews this offseason, how many people would trade Wes Matthews & #6 for Lawson? I sure as hell wouldn't. Or maybe we don't get a big name guy like Wes Matthews, but we accumulate a few pieces to strengthen the bench this year. Would you trade #6, Cory Joseph, Marco Belinelli, & Cole Aldrich for Lawson? Again, I sure as hell wouldn't.
To put it in terms of roster comparison, which team would you rather have going into next season (minus the room exception and veteran minimum deals)?
PG - Lawson/Collison/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins
VS.
PG - Collison/McCallum/Stockton
SG - Matthews/McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins/Cauley-Stein
OR
PG - Collison/Joseph/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Belinelli/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Cauley-Stein/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich
To me, the answer is blatantly obvious. I'm taking the latter two teams ten out of ten times.
If we were capable of signing a guy like Matthews this offseason, how many people would trade Wes Matthews & #6 for Lawson? I sure as hell wouldn't. Or maybe we don't get a big name guy like Wes Matthews, but we accumulate a few pieces to strengthen the bench this year. Would you trade #6, Cory Joseph, Marco Belinelli, & Cole Aldrich for Lawson? Again, I sure as hell wouldn't.
To put it in terms of roster comparison, which team would you rather have going into next season (minus the room exception and veteran minimum deals)?
PG - Lawson/Collison/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins
VS.
PG - Collison/McCallum/Stockton
SG - Matthews/McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins/Cauley-Stein
OR
PG - Collison/Joseph/McCallum/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Belinelli/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Cauley-Stein/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich
To me, the answer is blatantly obvious. I'm taking the latter two teams ten out of ten times.
Ahhhh... NOW people are realizing the value that is attributed to high draft picks!
(And some KF's even recently were stating that a #6 pick can't be flipped for an impactful veteran)
This is EXACTLY how previous years there were possibilities to trade a high draft pick for (usually) high-priced veterans who could help the team.
In previous years, this is how Lowry, Pao Gasol, Tony Parker, etc trades would have happened.
The couple weeks before the draft everyone loses their goddamn minds about the potential upsides to these incoming draft classes - and almost always it is overhyped, unrealistic overly-optimistic fool's gold.
If a trade can be swung for a veteran who is proven in the playoffs, THIS is how trading a #6 pick can help a team.
(And some KF's even recently were stating that a #6 pick can't be flipped for an impactful veteran)
This is EXACTLY how previous years there were possibilities to trade a high draft pick for (usually) high-priced veterans who could help the team.
In previous years, this is how Lowry, Pao Gasol, Tony Parker, etc trades would have happened.
The couple weeks before the draft everyone loses their goddamn minds about the potential upsides to these incoming draft classes - and almost always it is overhyped, unrealistic overly-optimistic fool's gold.
If a trade can be swung for a veteran who is proven in the playoffs, THIS is how trading a #6 pick can help a team.
Don't know where to put this, and I dont think it deserves it's own thread because I doubt its credibility. But take it for what its worth...
Raj Sharan @Raj_Sharan
Per Joe Kotoch of @sheridanhoops, #Nuggets & #Kings have engaged in trade talks involving Boogie Cousins for Ty Lawson & Kenneth Faried.
Raj Sharan @Raj_Sharan
Per Joe Kotoch of @sheridanhoops, #Nuggets & #Kings have engaged in trade talks involving Boogie Cousins for Ty Lawson & Kenneth Faried.
Considering that Joe Kotoch is Cleveland based and his main gig is being the Editor in Chief of Pro Basketball Draft I'm very, very skeptical of how solid his sources would be in the Nuggets and Kings front offices.
But suffice to say, if the Kings were ever to make such a trade, it would be my final day as a fan.
I mean that.
Sure, it'd be great to see the Kings make the playoffs and I'm guessing that if Karl were allowed to build a version of his scrappy, smallball, uptempo Nuggets team complete with two of the exact players that made it go he'd be able to coach them to a 45 win season and a first round exit. And the same for the next couple years until age takes it's toll and the lack of good draft picks has left the cupboard bare and yet another complete rebuild is called for.
The Kings have the most talented center in the NBA. He's the piece you build around. Period. And to have Vlade come out and say he'd only trade Boogie for "Michael Jordan" and then turn around and trade him for Karl's retreads in Faried and Lawson would meant one of my all-time favorite Kings from just burnt a lot of bridges with me.
All of which is why I'm choosing to believe this is just baseless internet rumoring.
But suffice to say, if the Kings were ever to make such a trade, it would be my final day as a fan.
I mean that.
Sure, it'd be great to see the Kings make the playoffs and I'm guessing that if Karl were allowed to build a version of his scrappy, smallball, uptempo Nuggets team complete with two of the exact players that made it go he'd be able to coach them to a 45 win season and a first round exit. And the same for the next couple years until age takes it's toll and the lack of good draft picks has left the cupboard bare and yet another complete rebuild is called for.
The Kings have the most talented center in the NBA. He's the piece you build around. Period. And to have Vlade come out and say he'd only trade Boogie for "Michael Jordan" and then turn around and trade him for Karl's retreads in Faried and Lawson would meant one of my all-time favorite Kings from just burnt a lot of bridges with me.
All of which is why I'm choosing to believe this is just baseless internet rumoring.
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The fact that just last week Vlade said he wouldn't trade Cousins except for Jordan should have way more merit than some guy trying to attain views or get some publicity...how many rumors do we hear every year in and year out, and I'm not just talking about Cousins, that just are smokescreens. The only reason this got brought up was because Malone is now head coach for Denver, that's it.
I don't think this is a smokescreen per se. A smokescreen is sending out misleading information while hiding your true intent or goal to try and gain an advantage. There's zero rationale for that from either team. For the Kings why let it leak that Cousins is on the trade block? Especially after Divac just said he wasn't? And for Denver that doesn't help you in trying to move Lawson and/or Faried if that's your intent. Other teams would simply think they couldn't (and/or smartly wouldn't) try to put together a better offer than that for those two players. No, it doesn't benefit either team leak that information.
Unless Cousins made his demand in the last two days that wouldn't make sense as Vlade just said three days ago in response to the question of whether he'd consider trading Boogie, "Well, if it's Michael Jordan there, I'll think about it,". Now unless he really meant 52 year old Michael Jordan of today then Lawson and Faried don't qualify. Vlade would have been hedging his bets a heck of a lot more than that if he knew Cousins wanted out.
And even if Cousins was saying he wanted a trade, I think Vlade would think back to Chris Webber not wanting to be in Sacramento as an obvious touchstone of how to handle a supremely talented but unhappy big man.
Besides, even if the Kings WERE looking to move Cousins because he wanted out, is Lawson and Faried really the deal you want? Because you've pretty much got to trade Rudy too (Gay as the first offensive option has never been a good idea) and now you're looking at a full rebuild. And if that's the case are Ty Lawson and Kenneth Faried really the pieces you want to build around? Especially when the Sixers and Celtics have a ton of picks to offer?
One other thing I was just thinking about last night. Yes, Karl has had success with Faried and Lawson in Denver. But does that imply that he'd absolutely want them in Sacramento? How often has Karl brought back players when he changed teams as a coach? Is he Bill Parcells like in that regard? I honestly don't know the answer there.
Seems to me that he's won in enough different situations to be confident in building a winner by playing to the strengths of the roster he gets rather than trying to go get "his guys".
Unless Cousins made his demand in the last two days that wouldn't make sense as Vlade just said three days ago in response to the question of whether he'd consider trading Boogie, "Well, if it's Michael Jordan there, I'll think about it,". Now unless he really meant 52 year old Michael Jordan of today then Lawson and Faried don't qualify. Vlade would have been hedging his bets a heck of a lot more than that if he knew Cousins wanted out.
And even if Cousins was saying he wanted a trade, I think Vlade would think back to Chris Webber not wanting to be in Sacramento as an obvious touchstone of how to handle a supremely talented but unhappy big man.
Besides, even if the Kings WERE looking to move Cousins because he wanted out, is Lawson and Faried really the deal you want? Because you've pretty much got to trade Rudy too (Gay as the first offensive option has never been a good idea) and now you're looking at a full rebuild. And if that's the case are Ty Lawson and Kenneth Faried really the pieces you want to build around? Especially when the Sixers and Celtics have a ton of picks to offer?
One other thing I was just thinking about last night. Yes, Karl has had success with Faried and Lawson in Denver. But does that imply that he'd absolutely want them in Sacramento? How often has Karl brought back players when he changed teams as a coach? Is he Bill Parcells like in that regard? I honestly don't know the answer there.
Seems to me that he's won in enough different situations to be confident in building a winner by playing to the strengths of the roster he gets rather than trying to go get "his guys".
Figured it was just a matter of time before someone tweeted out something revolving around Cuz and the 2 guys Denver is trying to trade.
Cuz, Landry and JT
For
Lawson, Faried, Nurcik, pick at 7, Chandler, their next years 1st, the Denver cheerleaders, Troy Tulowitzki, half the Rocky Mountains moved here, all that snow shipped over to Sac as we are in a drought......that gets you in the door to start conversations.
Cuz, Landry and JT
For
Lawson, Faried, Nurcik, pick at 7, Chandler, their next years 1st, the Denver cheerleaders, Troy Tulowitzki, half the Rocky Mountains moved here, all that snow shipped over to Sac as we are in a drought......that gets you in the door to start conversations.
The biggest unknown is how Cuz truly feels and whether or not he'd attempt to jump at an opportunity to reunite with Malone. That would play into there possibly being something to this and why a trade request would have recently come. Malone just accepted the job.
My biggest fear is teams trying to take advantage of our organization and making offers which start to intrigue some of the fools in our FO. Lawson/Faried could be a starting point. What if it turns into Lawson/Faried/#7? What if Chandler is added to it and DC or Ben/Nik goes te other way? Then you start getting into the territory where it might perk up the interest of some fools in our FO, especially if Cuz has said something we don't know about.
My biggest fear is teams trying to take advantage of our organization and making offers which start to intrigue some of the fools in our FO. Lawson/Faried could be a starting point. What if it turns into Lawson/Faried/#7? What if Chandler is added to it and DC or Ben/Nik goes te other way? Then you start getting into the territory where it might perk up the interest of some fools in our FO, especially if Cuz has said something we don't know about.
So just to be clear -
the Kings are supposedly going to trade the best center in the NBA for two overpriced players that Denver doesn't want anymore?
Like in the Warriors (Avid Lee thread), why would the Kings help out the Nuggets by taking their bad contracts, much less give them a potential future HoF center to boot?
the Kings are supposedly going to trade the best center in the NBA for two overpriced players that Denver doesn't want anymore?
Like in the Warriors (Avid Lee thread), why would the Kings help out the Nuggets by taking their bad contracts, much less give them a potential future HoF center to boot?
