Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]

[206Fan]

Not a huge McLemore fan. He did better this year, but I remember reading up on stats in another thread that ranked him as still being one of the worst starting SGs in the league. It doesn't surprise me, he really doesn't give us much of anything, and I would be happy to rid ourselves of him if the chance arose.

Many people are looking at his potential. I wouldn't want to throw him away..just to throw him away. He has tremendous upside and just needs some consistency. I think if we wanted to, we could probably trade Ben+Landry for a late 1st rounder..probably the Celtic's pick.


If we're desperate to move Landry and gain FA space, we might have to center Ben as the focal point of the trade.

I think there are also a few teams you actually want to avoid trading with.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Many people are looking at his potential. I wouldn't want to throw him away..just to throw him away. He has tremendous upside and just needs some consistency. I think if we wanted to, we could probably trade Ben+Landry for a late 1st rounder..probably the Celtic's pick.


If we're desperate to move Landry and gain FA space, we might have to center Ben as the focal point of the trade.

I think there are also a few teams you actually want to avoid trading with.

Yeah I'm not sure what people expected from McLemore. He was 20 correct his rookie year?

He was a known project in the draft, I think people forget that. Is odd for a SG to be a project, but he was drafted for his athleticism knowing it would take time, and his shooting stroke looked like it had potential too, was what I remember on draft day.

What is the upside of trading McLemore? A solid role player at best in return?

I don't see the value in dealing him, he has gotten better, has the body to be an all star one day. Not going to get a whole lot back in return, we should just ride it out. Not like McLemore in the rotation is going to cost us a championship, but it is possible we move him for little back and he turns out to be an All star in 5 years. He's only 22, where you'd be back in the day if you played for 4 years in college.

 

[Gary]

McLemore is never going to become what we want him to become. He's never going to be a guy that can take over a game on a consistent basis. He's never going to be the guy that you can count on to know what the offense and defense is doing before they do it. I don't think he thinks fast enough on his feet. He doesn't react well. In that aspect you either got it or you don't, and the people that have it usually aren't good overall players and end up only sticking around for their intangibles. I am not calling McLemore dumb or anything but after watching him a couple years now I feel I know what his ceiling would be, and if put on another team he probably wouldn't get any playing time.


Remember when Wallace wasn't getting any playing time here in Sac? But we all knew he was a damn good player. We were all pissed when he was given away to the expansion draft. He had less PT than McLemore and we knew he was something special.. And yah, "project" with SG is a bit weird for me to swallow. Seems like 95% of the guys we mark as a "project" end up being out of the league in a couple years. Not saying the same will happen for McLemore, but he would be a bench player on almost every other team in the NBA right now, and he would be a 10-12th man on most teams.

So Winslow? Sure why not.. If we cannot get WCS, but since we are getting WCS then it's a non issue

 

[Iced Espresso]

Ben has earned the criticism certainly. But I see next to no value moving him for decent things, we are not in contention, its not like we give up anything keeping him really. He's still an investment, may as well ride it out, but is he enough to hold you back in going after legit talent if it is there? No.

But it better be legit talent, and not simply a make do move.

 

[funkykingston]

McLemore is never going to become what we want him to become. He's never going to be a guy that can take over a game on a consistent basis. He's never going to be the guy that you can count on to know what the offense and defense is doing before they do it. I don't think he thinks fast enough on his feet. He doesn't react well. In that aspect you either got it or you don't, and the people that have it usually aren't good overall players and end up only sticking around for their intangibles. I am not calling McLemore dumb or anything but after watching him a couple years now I feel I know what his ceiling would be, and if put on another team he probably wouldn't get any playing time.

I never thought Ben was going to be that kind of player. To me he was a raw prospect with very good athleticism and great shot mechanics who I hoped would become a very good 3 & D guy. And I think he will. Anything beyond that is gravy.

Yeah, there are times that Ben is clearly thinking on the court instead of reacting and it makes him a step or a half second late on things. But as he gets more comfortable and things slow down for him he'll make better decisions. I don't think that's an innate thing. It comes from playing a LOT of basketball. And Ben didn't play a lot of basketball during the years where you generally get that feel for the game and lots of help on the coaching side. In the NBA you're learning on the fly and it's a lot harder.

Ben McLemore won't be a superstar. He may never make an all-star game. But he can be a reliable 4th option as a spot up shooter, get out and run in transition and become a plus defender. I'd certainly be okay with him being traded if it nets the Kings talent, but I think he can be a useful role player in time and there's no need to move him just to move him.

 

[Gilles]

The safe assumption is that no rookie would start, regardless of whether it's any of the guards or WCS. The question then becomes, what does that rookie do for the bench, which as Funky reminds us, is "gawdawful"?

WCS becomes backup PF next to backup center JT (actually PF defensively and C/PF to JT's PF/C offensively) and 4th big, logging 10-12 minutes plus all the garbage time to start the season, and likely capable to give Kings up to 30 productive minutes every game by January 2016.

PF should be occupied basically by JT with better perimeter play on both ends.

Kings need to find either a combo-guard, who would assume backup SG role next to Miller, but would also be capable of logging many more minutes at both guard positions in case of an injury (Stuckey looks perfect for this role and is very much available, if Kings act swiftly like with Collison last summer; Cory Joseph might be able to do that as well, but when Spurs had shallow guard depth last season, he was pretty underwhelming), or look for both backup PG and SG with Dre returning simply for depth purposes, but both those guys should be capable of spot starter duty, and I'm not sure, Kings have resources to pull that off.

Williams, Mccallum and Stauskas were worse Kings defenders by a margin (at least team defense crumbled with any of them on the court), while Landry in the post absolutely killed offense as he got in the way of both scoring options, especially Rudy. Williams should be gone, and Kings can't afford having the other two in 10-man rotation. Carl was shooting pretty good from mid-range last season, so if he's still on the team come training camp, Landry can be used as an emergency big, stationed in high post to spread the floor, when not involved in screening.

P.S. Kings have very limited resources both in terms of assets and salaries, they can absorb with cap space or send out and consequently take back, so Ben is not going anywhere from the starting lineup - he's a good low-cost, low-usage SG on a team with two hungry scoring options and PG capable of scoring.

 

[Gary]

I never thought Ben was going to be that kind of player. To me he was a raw prospect with very good athleticism and great shot mechanics who I hoped would become a very good 3 & D guy. And I think he will. Anything beyond that is gravy.

Yeah, there are times that Ben is clearly thinking on the court instead of reacting and it makes him a step or a half second late on things. But as he gets more comfortable and things slow down for him he'll make better decisions. I don't think that's an innate thing. It comes from playing a LOT of basketball. And Ben didn't play a lot of basketball during the years where you generally get that feel for the game and lots of help on the coaching side. In the NBA you're learning on the fly and it's a lot harder.

Ben McLemore won't be a superstar. He may never make an all-star game. But he can be a reliable 4th option as a spot up shooter, get out and run in transition and become a plus defender. I'd certainly be okay with him being traded if it nets the Kings talent, but I think he can be a useful role player in time and there's no need to move him just to move him.

I am fine with those roles you give him. I just didn't want him to be the future SG for this team. Meaning, if something out there is better then grab it up.

 

[Gary]

WCS becomes backup PF next to backup center JT (actually PF defensively and C/PF to JT's PF/C offensively) and 4th big, logging 10-12 minutes plus all the garbage time to start the season, and likely capable to give Kings up to 30 productive minutes every game by January 2016.

PF should be occupied basically by JT with better perimeter play on both ends.

Kings need to find either a combo-guard, who would assume backup SG role next to Miller, but would also be capable of logging many more minutes at both guard positions in case of an injury (Stuckey looks perfect for this role and is very much available, if Kings act swiftly like with Collison last summer; Cory Joseph might be able to do that as well, but when Spurs had shallow guard depth last season, he was pretty underwhelming), or look for both backup PG and SG with Dre returning simply for depth purposes, but both those guys should be capable of spot starter duty, and I'm not sure, Kings have resources to pull that off.

Williams, Mccallum and Stauskas were worse Kings defenders by a margin (at least team defense crumbled with any of them on the court), while Landry in the post absolutely killed offense as he got in the way of both scoring options, especially Rudy. Williams should be gone, and Kings can't afford having the other two in 10-man rotation. Carl was shooting pretty good from mid-range last season, so if he's still on the team come training camp, Landry can be used as an emergency big, stationed in high post to spread the floor, when not involved in screening.

P.S. Kings have very limited resources both in terms of assets and salaries, they can absorb with cap space or sent out and consequently taken back, so Ben is not going anywhere from the starting lineup - he's a good low-cost, low-usage SG on a team with two hungry scoring options and PG capable of scoring.

I would actually prefer WCS starts from the get-go at PF and gets 25-30mpg. He's a three year college player so I don't think it would take him as long as others to assimilate.

 

[funkykingston]

The safe assumption is that no rookie would start, regardless of whether it's any of the guards or WCS. The question then becomes, what does that rookie do for the bench, which as Funky reminds us, is "gawdawful"?

It depends on the rookie.

WCS would give you a third big who could play alongside either Cousins or Thompson and who improves the team's defense. He'd make the Kings much better against the pick and roll when on the floor and he'd alleviate some of Boogie's burden on that end so he could be even more dominant offensively. Cauley-Stein would also help the bench in transition, something we know Karl wants to improve upon. I do believe Cauley-Stein is good enough (and a good enough fit) that he'd have a good chance at taking the starting PF spot sometime during the season.

Winslow would add defense, passing and leadership to the 2nd unit but the struggle for him is where he'd get minutes. If Casspi isn't resigned he could backup Gay but ultimately I think his best position will be SG where two young Kings are already developing.

Mudiay honestly probably wouldn't improve the bench much his rookie year. I think he'd essentially give Sessions like production. Worse outside shooting, better finishing at the rim and probably both more assists and more turnovers. The hope obviously is that as he adjusts to the NBA game and works on his shot that he could be a star at the PG spot. But I wouldn't expect immediate positive production from him.

Porzingis will likely have an awful rookie season. Nowitski came over at about the same age, with a slightly stronger body and much more developed shooting mechanics and he had a terrible first year statistically. In a perfect world Porzingis would shoot well enough to help with spacing for stretches of the game while also blocking a few shots but personally I think he's gong to really struggle early on in all facets.

Kaminsky would give the Kings a bench shooter and a guy who might have some success posting up at times against opposing 2nd units. He's very smart with the ball and while not a dominant rebounder, that aspect of his game should translate rather well. He'll struggle defensively both against bigger, stronger C/PFs and quicker bigs but honestly I think he'd be the guy that would help the Kings the most immediately. Unfortunately he doesn't address the issues with the pick & roll, rim protection or getting better in transition. I'd love Kaminsky as a bench player on the Kings but only if they trade down and pick up another player that can address some of their other needs.

I honestly haven't yet watched enough of Hezonja to feel confident in predicting his production in the NBA.

One of my favorite prospects (again, not at #6 but possible in a trade down) is Cameron Payne and I think he'd struggle to supplant Andre Miller as the backup guard in his rookie year but would give the team both passing and outside shooting and down the road I think he and Collison would be a very nice PG duo.

Myles Turner is another guy that I'd only want the Kings to consider if Towns, Russell, WCS, Mudiay and Okafor are off the board. Even then he's a definite project. He DOES have very good rebounding fundamentals and is a good rim protector though he doesn't have the lateral quickness or lift that I'd ideally like to see. Everyone talks about his outside shooting but he shot a relatively poor percentage from midrange and the college three. He has potential with his mechanics but I think his rookie year he's going to struggle to score even against opposing benches. I'm hearing that he's improved his running mechanics but all I know is it was a red flag to me watching him this season. Even if he does fix his gait I just don't know if he has the quickness to be effectively paired with Cousins. He's got some very intriguing tools but he's (1) farther away than I'd like for a Kings team that needs to improve sooner than later and (2) never going to be an ideal frontcourt mate for Boogie.

 

[Gilles]

Everyone has an adjustment period, plus Kings can't just roll with Boogie-WCS-JT, they need another good veteran big - Kings don't have any time to wait for assimilation. If WCS pushes his way into starting lineup by the end of the season, very good, if he struggles somewhat, Kings can keep him on the bench and go with vets. Kings can't afford sub-par production from anyone in rotation, and competition is always welcome.

No freshman should be expected to produce as a rookie, no matter how impressive he was in college. Kaminski won't see more than 800 minutes for a PO contender, unless it's for a team from the East like Charlotte, Indiana or Milwaukee, that have very good defense across the lineup.

 

[funkykingston]

WCS becomes backup PF next to backup center JT (actually PF defensively and C/PF to JT's PF/C offensively) and 4th big, logging 10-12 minutes plus all the garbage time to start the season, and likely capable to give Kings up to 30 productive minutes every game by January 2016.

PF should be occupied basically by JT with better perimeter play on both ends.

Kings need to find either a combo-guard, who would assume backup SG role next to Miller, but would also be capable of logging many more minutes at both guard positions in case of an injury (Stuckey looks perfect for this role and is very much available, if Kings act swiftly like with Collison last summer; Cory Joseph might be able to do that as well, but when Spurs had shallow guard depth last season, he was pretty underwhelming), or look for both backup PG and SG with Dre returning simply for depth purposes, but both those guys should be capable of spot starter duty, and I'm not sure, Kings have resources to pull that off.

Williams, Mccallum and Stauskas were worse Kings defenders by a margin (at least team defense crumbled with any of them on the court), while Landry in the post absolutely killed offense as he got in the way of both scoring options, especially Rudy. Williams should be gone, and Kings can't afford having the other two in 10-man rotation. Carl was shooting pretty good from mid-range last season, so if he's still on the team come training camp, Landry can be used as an emergency big, stationed in high post to spread the floor, when not involved in screening.

P.S. Kings have very limited resources both in terms of assets and salaries, they can absorb with cap space or send out and consequently take back, so Ben is not going anywhere from the starting lineup - he's a good low-cost, low-usage SG on a team with two hungry scoring options and PG capable of scoring.

The problem with Landry is that he just flat out doesn't seem to fit what George Karl wants to do. He's a low post scorer, midrange jump shooter who isn't good in transition and who is a black hole offensively and minus defender. But I don't know how moveable he is at his age and with his contract. Two seasons ago his season was a complete loss due to injuries and he looked poor under Corbin and played fewer minutes (and with a few DNPs) under Karl. He really only looked like a good signing early this season under Malone when he provided some surprisingly effective bench scoring in that grind it out offense.

In order for the Kings to take a step forward they need (in no particular order):

(a) more outside shooting
(b) better pick and roll defense and team defense in general
(c) a scoring sixth man type player
(d) better rim protection
(e) improved ball movement and more assists
(f) fewer turnovers

Some of those can be addressed to a degree by scheme (the last two probably more so than the others) but some require roster changes. How that happens with the few assets and caproom the Kings have I'm not sure. WCS definitely helps with defense and rim protection but that still leaves scoring from the bench and outside shooting to address as well as having more passing.

Vlade has a lot of work to do.

 

[bajaden]

Ben has earned the criticism certainly. But I see next to no value moving him for decent things, we are not in contention, its not like we give up anything keeping him really. He's still an investment, may as well ride it out, but is he enough to hold you back in going after legit talent if it is there? No.

But it better be legit talent, and not simply a make do move.

The word project is used at times to describe Ben, and along with it, how unusual it is for a SG to be a project. Very true, but lest we forget, Ben came to basketball late. Didn't really start playing it seriously until his sophmore year in highschool. By comparison, Nik started playing basketball when he was around six years old. Makes a huge difference. One plays instinctively, and the other is still reading the book. That doesn't mean that Ben can't eventually become a very good player. He seems to be a hard worker. He wants to be a great player. It's just going to take some time, and along the way, he's going to be pushed by Nik, which is good.

That said, I'm not against trading him, or Nik or just about anyone on the team not named Cousins. But I don't want to trade him just to be trading him. He would have to be a big sweetener in part of a larger deal. I'm not going to trade him just to get rid of Landry.

 

[bajaden]

The problem with Landry is that he just flat out doesn't seem to fit what George Karl wants to do. He's a low post scorer, midrange jump shooter who isn't good in transition and who is a black hole offensively and minus defender. But I don't know how moveable he is at his age and with his contract. Two seasons ago his season was a complete loss due to injuries and he looked poor under Corbin and played fewer minutes (and with a few DNPs) under Karl. He really only looked like a good signing early this season under Malone when he provided some surprisingly effective bench scoring in that grind it out offense.

In order for the Kings to take a step forward they need (in no particular order):

(a) more outside shooting
(b) better pick and roll defense and team defense in general
(c) a scoring sixth man type player
(d) better rim protection
(e) improved ball movement and more assists
(f) fewer turnovers

Some of those can be addressed to a degree by scheme (the last two probably more so than the others) but some require roster changes. How that happens with the few assets and caproom the Kings have I'm not sure. WCS definitely helps with defense and rim protection but that still leaves scoring from the bench and outside shooting to address as well as having more passing.

Vlade has a lot of work to do.

Yeah, I was going to say that Cauley-Stein takes care of b and d, but a, c, e, and f, will have to come from somewhere else. One hopes that McLemore and Stauskas will both come in improved and help with the outside shooting, and with a scoring sixth man. I hope that's not wishful thinking. Ball movement, assists, and fewer turnovers has to come from the team in general, and coaching. Some roster changes could help as well, but impossible to comment on without knowing who will be added.

I wonder when our illustrious beat writer is going to let us know who, and when the Kings are working out. last report said that they intended to start workouts this week, but nary a peep out our investigative reporter. I wonder if he has the telephone number of anyone in Kingsland. Maybe he called Petrie instead, and as usual, Petrie said nothing......

 

[bajaden]

It depends on the rookie.

WCS would give you a third big who could play alongside either Cousins or Thompson and who improves the team's defense. He'd make the Kings much better against the pick and roll when on the floor and he'd alleviate some of Boogie's burden on that end so he could be even more dominant offensively. Cauley-Stein would also help the bench in transition, something we know Karl wants to improve upon. I do believe Cauley-Stein is good enough (and a good enough fit) that he'd have a good chance at taking the starting PF spot sometime during the season.

Winslow would add defense, passing and leadership to the 2nd unit but the struggle for him is where he'd get minutes. If Casspi isn't resigned he could backup Gay but ultimately I think his best position will be SG where two young Kings are already developing.

Mudiay honestly probably wouldn't improve the bench much his rookie year. I think he'd essentially give Sessions like production. Worse outside shooting, better finishing at the rim and probably both more assists and more turnovers. The hope obviously is that as he adjusts to the NBA game and works on his shot that he could be a star at the PG spot. But I wouldn't expect immediate positive production from him.

Porzingis will likely have an awful rookie season. Nowitski came over at about the same age, with a slightly stronger body and much more developed shooting mechanics and he had a terrible first year statistically. In a perfect world Porzingis would shoot well enough to help with spacing for stretches of the game while also blocking a few shots but personally I think he's gong to really struggle early on in all facets.

Kaminsky would give the Kings a bench shooter and a guy who might have some success posting up at times against opposing 2nd units. He's very smart with the ball and while not a dominant rebounder, that aspect of his game should translate rather well. He'll struggle defensively both against bigger, stronger C/PFs and quicker bigs but honestly I think he'd be the guy that would help the Kings the most immediately. Unfortunately he doesn't address the issues with the pick & roll, rim protection or getting better in transition. I'd love Kaminsky as a bench player on the Kings but only if they trade down and pick up another player that can address some of their other needs.

I honestly haven't yet watched enough of Hezonja to feel confident in predicting his production in the NBA.

One of my favorite prospects (again, not at #6 but possible in a trade down) is Cameron Payne and I think he'd struggle to supplant Andre Miller as the backup guard in his rookie year but would give the team both passing and outside shooting and down the road I think he and Collison would be a very nice PG duo.

Myles Turner is another guy that I'd only want the Kings to consider if Towns, Russell, WCS, Mudiay and Okafor are off the board. Even then he's a definite project. He DOES have very good rebounding fundamentals and is a good rim protector though he doesn't have the lateral quickness or lift that I'd ideally like to see. Everyone talks about his outside shooting but he shot a relatively poor percentage from midrange and the college three. He has potential with his mechanics but I think his rookie year he's going to struggle to score even against opposing benches. I'm hearing that he's improved his running mechanics but all I know is it was a red flag to me watching him this season. Even if he does fix his gait I just don't know if he has the quickness to be effectively paired with Cousins. He's got some very intriguing tools but he's (1) farther away than I'd like for a Kings team that needs to improve sooner than later and (2) never going to be an ideal frontcourt mate for Boogie.

Very good analysis. I'm glad you brought up Payne, who five years from now, may be considered the best PG out of this class. That depends a great deal on whether the team that drafts Russell, drafts him as a PG, or as a SG, or both. Russell may end up being a Hardin type player. Payne is also a very good defender. He's as close to Payton as anyone in this draft, except that he can shoot the ball. Like you, I'm a little scared of Turner. He's a terrible pick and roll defender. Matter of fact, he's a terrible perimeter defender period. Not saying he can't improve, but his lateral quickness is poor. I heard one pundit on TV calling Turner an elite athlete. I thought, what the hell have you been smoking. He's not a terrible athlete, but he's far from being an elite one. To me, he looks like a future backup center that might be able to stretch the floor on offense, and improve the 2nd units defense at the rim. But you never know.

 

[kingsboi]

The Kings haven't done themselves any favors in drafting poorly and letting go of assets they could of used, but now with Vlade in charge, I am curious to see what need he addresses the most in the offseason. There are just too many to take care of in one offseason, start with the draft, take a big or take a guard/forward who can defend on the perimeter and go from there.

 

[lawlman91]

The Kings haven't done themselves any favors in drafting poorly and letting go of assets they could of used

Your opinion is now invalid.

 

[funkykingston]

Very good analysis. I'm glad you brought up Payne, who five years from now, may be considered the best PG out of this class. That depends a great deal on whether the team that drafts Russell, drafts him as a PG, or as a SG, or both. Russell may end up being a Hardin type player. Payne is also a very good defender. He's as close to Payton as anyone in this draft, except that he can shoot the ball. Like you, I'm a little scared of Turner. He's a terrible pick and roll defender. Matter of fact, he's a terrible perimeter defender period. Not saying he can't improve, but his lateral quickness is poor. I heard one pundit on TV calling Turner an elite athlete. I thought, what the hell have you been smoking. He's not a terrible athlete, but he's far from being an elite one. To me, he looks like a future backup center that might be able to stretch the floor on offense, and improve the 2nd units defense at the rim. But you never know.

I think if you want Russell to be a star he has to be the lead guard. Now that could be as a ball dominant SG like Harden with a PG that is there primarily for defense and/or outside shooting or as a PG. He hasn't got the size or strength that I'd prefer as a SG so to me his ideal spot is PG. But of course a lot depends on whether he can defend either position well.

Turner has elite measurables (especially his wingspan and standing reach) but is not an elite athlete. He's got poor lateral quickness, is relatively ground bound and of course we've talked about his running mechanics. Honestly I think he's almost got to be a center on the NBA level just because otherwise I think he struggles to guard even relatively mobile PFs.

 

[Livinthedream]

Do we not think we have anything in Eric Moreland? I'm not saying that we do or don't, but that has to factor into the thought process of the FO. Does he have trade value? Can you roll with him as a backup big man and pass on WCS if Mudiya is on the board at 6? Not comparing WCS in talent to Moreland, but there is a young defensive big man on the roster right now. Gives the team flexibility

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Do we not think we have anything in Eric Moreland? I'm not saying that we do or don't, but that has to factor into the thought process of the FO. Does he have trade value? Can you roll with him as a backup big man and pass on WCS if Mudiya is on the board at 6? Not comparing WCS in talent to Moreland, but there is a young defensive big man on the roster right now. Gives the team flexibility

I don't think we have much of an idea what we have in Moreland. He certainly opened my eyes in Summer League last year, but he got hurt so early in the season I don'tknow how good of a feel the team got for him. I suspect he'll be around next year and get a chance to show what he can do.

 

[twslam07]

Do we not think we have anything in Eric Moreland? I'm not saying that we do or don't, but that has to factor into the thought process of the FO. Does he have trade value? Can you roll with him as a backup big man and pass on WCS if Mudiya is on the board at 6? Not comparing WCS in talent to Moreland, but there is a young defensive big man on the roster right now. Gives the team flexibility

I wouldn't pass on Cauley-Stein because of Moreland. Let's not forget that he was an undrafted rookie just last year and he only played 2 min this season.

I don't think we can have the mindset that we can rely on Moreland. I think out mindset needs to be "if he pans out, it's icing on the cake."

 

[kingsboi]

Your opinion is now invalid.

how so...

 

[funkykingston]

Do we not think we have anything in Eric Moreland? I'm not saying that we do or don't, but that has to factor into the thought process of the FO. Does he have trade value? Can you roll with him as a backup big man and pass on WCS if Mudiya is on the board at 6? Not comparing WCS in talent to Moreland, but there is a young defensive big man on the roster right now. Gives the team flexibility

It's possible that both Mudiay and Cauley-Stein would be on the board at #6 (if say Porzingis and Winslow go #4 & #5) but that's probably just as likely as Mudiay and WCS going 4 & 5 and neither of them being available.
I think it's most likely that only one of them is there at #6.

I don't think we have much of an idea what we have in Moreland. He certainly opened my eyes in Summer League last year, but he got hurt so early in the season I don'tknow how good of a feel the team got for him. I suspect he'll be around next year and get a chance to show what he can do.

True. And at least Malone got to see him in practice. For Karl Moreland is a complete black box. Hopefully he has another strong SL showing, but at this point Moreland might as well be a training camp invitee.

I wouldn't pass on Cauley-Stein because of Moreland. Let's not forget that he was an undrafted rookie just last year and he only played 2 min this season.

I don't think we can have the mindset that we can rely on Moreland. I think out mindset needs to be "if he pans out, it's icing on the cake."

Right. If somehow both WCS and Mudiay are on the board when the Kings are on the clock you don't consider Moreland, only whether you think Mudiay will make the Kings better long term than Cauley-Stein will.

If the Kings do draft WCS and Moreland starts to show the same sort of things he did in Summer League then I don't see that as a negative in any way. There are a lot worse problems to have than a pair of athletic, shot blocking PFs on cheap rookie deals.

 

[Spike]

how so...

 

[Gary]

The word project is used at times to describe Ben, and along with it, how unusual it is for a SG to be a project. Very true, but lest we forget, Ben came to basketball late. Didn't really start playing it seriously until his sophmore year in highschool. By comparison, Nik started playing basketball when he was around six years old. Makes a huge difference. One plays instinctively, and the other is still reading the book. That doesn't mean that Ben can't eventually become a very good player. He seems to be a hard worker. He wants to be a great player. It's just going to take some time, and along the way, he's going to be pushed by Nik, which is good.

That said, I'm not against trading him, or Nik or just about anyone on the team not named Cousins. But I don't want to trade him just to be trading him. He would have to be a big sweetener in part of a larger deal. I'm not going to trade him just to get rid of Landry.

Would you be opposed to giving Nik the starting nod if McLemore has not improved? Believe it or not, but I would totally go with Stauskas over McLemore if the season were to start today. Sounds a bit weird, but what the heck lol.

 

[lawlman91]

Would you be opposed to giving Nik the starting nod if McLemore has not improved? Believe it or not, but I would totally go with Stauskas over McLemore if the season were to start today. Sounds a bit weird, but what the heck lol.

I will argue against that. McLemore is a better fit with the starting unit than Stauskas. If I want Stauskas to shine, it would be as a 6th man that is able to substitute in for the 1, 2, or 3 spot depending on the performance of our starters, and he can also lead the second unit in scoring using the pick and roll, which is his specialty. When Cousins and Gay are in, I don't see us using the pick and roll as much as post-ups. Sure, it can be argued that Stauskas might bring some small offensive benefit to the starting unit, but he will be expending his effort when Cousins and Gay have the ball, instead of when he can shine with the pick and roll. McLemore struggles with things like ball-handling, but fits as a catch-and-shoot player (not the best, but getting better) that should also be able to stop any 1 or 2 guard on the defensive side of the floor. His skill set fits the starting 5. The starting unit also played really well this season, so they work. Therefore, we can safely throw Stauskas in that 6th man role, and hope that he becomes such a player.

 

[Entity]

I don't think we have much of an idea what we have in Moreland. He certainly opened my eyes in Summer League last year, but he got hurt so early in the season I don'tknow how good of a feel the team got for him. I suspect he'll be around next year and get a chance to show what he can do.

He and WCS will be the dynamic frontcourt duo in summer league

 

[kingsboi]

View attachment 5295

 

[lawlman91]

lel git gud @ gramer k nub bai

 

[gunks]

WELL.... This thread certainly got TDOSy rather quickly.

 

[Bricklayer]

this guys looks about right for us: