2015 Draft Prospects:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
Actually there's different levels of skinny. 
You can be skinny with wide shoulders like Anthony Davis or with narrow like John Henson. 3-4 years into his career Porzingis might still be at 230. Caulie-Stein doesn't look like Davis either, but he should be able to get to 250 and hover around that for his career. Base/core training to get the strength of Reggie Evans rather than bulking up is the way to go for him.
You can be skinny with wide shoulders like Anthony Davis or with narrow like John Henson. 3-4 years into his career Porzingis might still be at 230. Caulie-Stein doesn't look like Davis either, but he should be able to get to 250 and hover around that for his career. Base/core training to get the strength of Reggie Evans rather than bulking up is the way to go for him.
People said the same thing about Motiejunas who was probably weaker than Porzingas at the same age, and he put on a lot of muscle. Just speaking in terms of body type. I'm not saying Motiejunas is great before someone jumps in to point this out.
Motiejunas IS actually very good as a solid player with upside, who is finally adjusting to the league. His problem was Donatas was mostly a post player, who played on a team with Howard, so along with getting stronger he had to learn to shoot, which he now appears to have in his arsenal. Even as a rookie he had pretty impressive array of the moves around the basket, problem was he was too weak to get anywhere close to the rim to show these moves. Early in the season Motiejunas was very impressive with Howard out. Motie also started playing better defense without many fouls - not a real threat to block a shot, but he's rotating and contesting. Overall might be a target as young player with good skillset to fit in next to Boogie.
As for the subject in hand Motie has pretty wide shoulders and is now listed at 255 after 2 off-seasons of NBA weight program.
As for the subject in hand Motie has pretty wide shoulders and is now listed at 255 after 2 off-seasons of NBA weight program.
Are you Russian? Not sure if it's you or someone else, but I remember reading that someone who watches prospects is European. Thought it was you but could be wrong. I am. If you're interested, I had extensive notes on Donatas months before he got to the NBA. He's not new to me. I probably posted more about him than anyone else on this forum before he got to the NBA. He had the same "weakness" that many "Euros" (read: white Europeans - we're not all white here and you won't see an American refer to a black European as a "soft Euro" so what are they really saying? Sorry for calling out BS) have entering the league. Anyway, people over and under-estimate frame all the time. Generally people who haven't played at a decent level and have never seen the inside of a gym.
Sure it plays a part, but if you're in the athletic stratosphere league of a professional athlete, chances are you're athletically capable of putting on muscle (varies person to person obviously). BTW, Donatas didn't put on muscle after two years of NBA weight training, he got way stronger preceding his rookie season. I actually think he put on too much, as he lost some mobility and actually ended up losing some weight (right decision) some way into his rookie season. I posted about this pre-draft at the time. It's not me making this up. He got a looot stronger to impress scouts and there's workout videos to show for it, but his cardio and stamina sucked. But yes, a very skilled guy. Not sure I love him for us, but definitely a place for him in the league.
Sure it plays a part, but if you're in the athletic stratosphere league of a professional athlete, chances are you're athletically capable of putting on muscle (varies person to person obviously). BTW, Donatas didn't put on muscle after two years of NBA weight training, he got way stronger preceding his rookie season. I actually think he put on too much, as he lost some mobility and actually ended up losing some weight (right decision) some way into his rookie season. I posted about this pre-draft at the time. It's not me making this up. He got a looot stronger to impress scouts and there's workout videos to show for it, but his cardio and stamina sucked. But yes, a very skilled guy. Not sure I love him for us, but definitely a place for him in the league.
Yeah, because 220lbs is too weak but 240lbs isn't... what's your actual point? For what it's worth, I'd absolutely guess that Porzingis is heavier than WCS at this moment. Who do I want to draft? WCS, by an asbsolute mile. Not even close. WCS is my dream, I don't even care about Porzingis. Just making a point. Don't believe everything you read. Porzingis is not strong, but I'd imagine he's heavier than the 210/220lbs he's listed at.
Yes, I'm Russian - location in my profile is a decent clue.
I wasn't following the draft that closely at the time as a whole, so I was going off of my recollection. As for his Houston career I watch only Kings games and some vs NBA elite and remember, I saw a game last year, where he had some trouble defending the post, and Clyde and Co talked about a need to get stronger, so it stuck, and I guess, I made some assumptions.
I watch Euroleague from time to time, when it's on TV or even Eurocup (competition is really two levels down compared to Euroleague) and local championships, when there are NBA prospects - watched 3-4 games of Tavares and Capela last year.
I wasn't following the draft that closely at the time as a whole, so I was going off of my recollection. As for his Houston career I watch only Kings games and some vs NBA elite and remember, I saw a game last year, where he had some trouble defending the post, and Clyde and Co talked about a need to get stronger, so it stuck, and I guess, I made some assumptions.
I watch Euroleague from time to time, when it's on TV or even Eurocup (competition is really two levels down compared to Euroleague) and local championships, when there are NBA prospects - watched 3-4 games of Tavares and Capela last year.
Lottery pick, no question. Top 6? I don't think so. In some years maybe, but there's a lot of talent in the 2014 HS class. I don't like to compare 3rd year players directly with 1st year players. For upperclassmen, you have to consider their stats in their freshman year and their level of progression as well. An argument could be made that 3rd year college players are theoretically better prepared for the NBA but that's not always the case. Sometimes players excel in college because they have a physical advantage but struggle in the NBA when the physical advantage is gone. More often than not it's the one-and-done players who excel right away in the NBA because their talent is already NBA class and their growth curve rises much higher because they still have untapped physical potential left to develop.
There's a difference yes, but your point should have been about style of play, not strength. Both are too weak, which is my point. WCS is my pick. You made an ignorant assumption and clearly you're not willing to acknowledge it. I won't argue with it. Some of you are arrogant beyond reality and I have no intention of arguing this. Why are the vast majority of the white players in the NBA European? Has nothing to do with softness/strengthy my friend. Let's face reality before you dismiss "Euros" as skinny and soft. We're in 2015, time to educate yourself. Sorry if this gets me an infraction, but unless someone wants to engage and make an actual point, I will argue weak ass points with actual facts. Good luck. Cut out the dismissal of "EURO" prospects because they're "EUROS" and I'll stop pointing out major, MAJOR hypocrisies. Good luck with that, it's hard to face facts.
I've had this run-in with many mods, some my good friends, but until people are willing to stop being hypocrites and acknowledge reality, I'm not going to stop calling out BS.
Until we start calling out f**king BS for what it is, I will henceforth refer to every white American prospect as the "soft American". About as accurate as the "soft Euro" argument is. BTW, try coming to Europe and saying that crap to the majority of Europeans. Good luck with that. Culture is extremely different, I absolutely love the US, but even I need to be careful here, "Soft Euros" don't rely on gun culture either. "Euros" are some tough people that don't think twice about people who talk s**t. Western Europe is generally cool, but go with that attitude to Eastern Europe and see what happens.
I've had this run-in with many mods, some my good friends, but until people are willing to stop being hypocrites and acknowledge reality, I'm not going to stop calling out BS.
Until we start calling out f**king BS for what it is, I will henceforth refer to every white American prospect as the "soft American". About as accurate as the "soft Euro" argument is. BTW, try coming to Europe and saying that crap to the majority of Europeans. Good luck with that. Culture is extremely different, I absolutely love the US, but even I need to be careful here, "Soft Euros" don't rely on gun culture either. "Euros" are some tough people that don't think twice about people who talk s**t. Western Europe is generally cool, but go with that attitude to Eastern Europe and see what happens.
Last edited:
Arrrgh! Finally back up and running. Went away to visit Uncia03 for march madness, got back back and the site would let me log on, but not post. I couldn't even post to one of the mod's to let them know. Anyway, up and running again. I think WCS goes no futher than six, and that's to us if we remain where were at. He's very highly valued around the league for his defense. I mean the dude can guard any player on the other team. People are making wey too much of his offense, or lack there of. Stein will get you ten points a night on just garbage if nothing else. he does have a 15 foot jumper that's not bad. It's just that you seldom see him shoot it. He'll generally pass it up in favor of one of the guards. I've watched him play for three years, and seen his progression. He's a superstar on offense now compared to when he was a freshman.
I was hoping Kentucky would win the whole thing, so everyone would declare for the draft. Now watch WCS stay for his senior year along with Towns and Booker.
Last edited:
J
I like Dekker, and he finally showed up for some of the big games. But I don't see Durant when I look at Dekker. Not saying he couldn't have a similar career. I doubt it, but crazier things have happened. Dekker grew a couple of inches last season and off season. He almost looks big enough to play some PF. Wouldn't surprise me if he ended up being a stretch four at some point. Giles mentioned his handles being shaky. For his size, I think his handles are pretty decent, and probably adequate enough for now at the SF position. If he wants to move into the upper level then he'll have to improve in that area.
Doesn't surprise me that he's pushing out some of them. He has another very good class of recruits coming in next year. He already has commitments from Skal Labissiere, a 6'10"center who is ranked third in the nation, and from Isaiah Briscoe, a 6'3"PG, who is the 13th ranked player in the nation, and currently the number one ranked PG in the nation. It's also rumored that Ivan Rabb, a 6'11" PF, who is the fifth ranked player in the nation, is leaning toward Kentucky. He happens to be friends with Briscoe. He has to make some room for these guys. Derek Willis a 6'9" PF freshman hardly played this year, and I have no doubt he'll be back. Maybe Marcus Lee and Dakari Johnson as well.
The rule is, bad play likely won't hurt your rankings, but good play can bump you up a little. He wouldn't have to get bumped much to make it into the lottery. He had a good year for the most part. He improved his three point shot from poor, to decent. He shoots a very high arch on his shot. His rebounding is decent for a SF, but when you look at him, you think he should be grabbing more. Dekker is also a pretty good athlete, and he has good BBIQ. It probably depends on the needs of the teams drafting. Once Winslow and Johnson are gone, he's probably the next best choice.
I could see both guys sticking with the Wildcats for another year in the hopes that they'll finally be able to crack the starting line-up and be able to raise their draft stock, especially Marcus Lee, who simply saw less of the floor than most of his teammates simply because Karl Towns, Willie Cauley-Stein, Dakari Johnson, Trey Lyles, and Julius Randle have all been eating the minutes ahead of him. That said, with Skal Labissiere coming in next season, Rabb potential heading to Kentucky as well, and with a lot of talk about Calipari making a push for Zimmerman, both guys might even have a HARDER time seeing the floor for long sustained minutes this season than last.
Derek Willis is actually a sophomore this season, by the way.
Derek Willis is actually a sophomore this season, by the way.
Scouts complain about his shot selection and he had .431 3pt% with 4 made 3s per game.
The only full game on youtube: