2015 Draft Prospects:

[Gilles]

This is exactly, why I say, WCS will be available, maybe, even at #9-10. People will look at highlights/ FO guys will look at uncontested one-on-nothing perfomance and "with experience and training he will do this every time", "oh, he will be our Dirk, Gobert...insert as needed..." start flying. Might as well start calling Stanley Johnson future best scorer in the League.
Winslow is not going to be star: can't shoot off dribble, and isn't quick enough with the ball/doesn't move relentlessly off the ball to offset that. His hunt for defensive highlights will be exploited and punished at the next level.

 

[funkykingston]

Porzingis is my absolute draft crush.. If the FO feels like he's ready, I think we should pull the trigger on him. His biggest issue is strength. I don't see how he can't put on an extra 10-15lbs this summer to be around 230-240lbs.

He plays like a mix of AD and Dirk. He hustles on every play. His game reminds me so much of AD.

I think if he we draft him, and he comes over this year, I'd want him to go up against Boogie everyday to get stronger..

He's everything we want in a 4.

Both Turner and Porzingas seem like great fits next to Cousins on paper but both scare me. I've watched enough of Turner but I've lately spent some time watching the tape that I could find of Porzingas.

Both can block shots and be a weakside/help defender and both have nice shooting touch. Turner adds rebounding and some offensive versatility but he is just so plodding/mechanical in his movements and needs a lot of work on both sides of the ball. Porzingas is very fluid and an even better shooter but he is weak physically without the frame to add a lot of weight. But worse than that his rebounding numbers are low in part because he lacks the strength to battle down low but also because he doesn't have a lot of fight in him. He gives up post position too easily, doesn't fight hard enough for rebounds and shies from contact when attacking the basket. Part of that obviously is strength but it's the mentality that worries me more. I don't care if you get bullied - at least fight for the spot on the block on both ends.

There's nothing in his game that reminds me of Anthony Davis. AD was anchoring a great college defense and had good awareness on that end of the floor. Porzingas gets blocks because of his physical tools but he's often out of position and slow on rotations. He's got physical gifts and a skillset that seems like exactly what we want next to Cuz but it's really going to be his mindset that determines whether he's Dirk with defense or a poor mans Channing Frye.

That said, George Karl would probably be a good coach for him and he'd space the floor for Gay and Cousins. The dribble drive offense and transition would fit with what he does well (shoot and run the floor) and Cuz (and JT) could hide some of his weaknesses. I wouldn't be upset if he was the draft selection but he's a far riskier pick than WCS.

 

[Flopi]

Article: Willie Cauley-Stein can guard anyone on earth
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/3/8338409/willie-cauley-stein-defense-nba-draft-2015

 

[LPKingsFan]

I wouldn't be upset if he was the draft selection but he's a far riskier pick than WCS.

No doubt. I'm just convinced the Kings will pick something like seventh and WCS and Winslow will go 5 and 6.

 

[Gilles]

Article: Willie Cauley-Stein can guard anyone on earth
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/3/8338409/willie-cauley-stein-defense-nba-draft-2015

I like WCS' defensive game as much as anybody, but a big center with some footwork would just destroy him.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I like WCS' defensive game as much as anybody, but a big center with some footwork would just destroy him.

Fortunately with Cousins on the floor he wouldn't be asked to guard a big center with footwork, just to clean up from the weak side.

 

[Hadlowe]

Fortunately with Cousins on the floor he wouldn't be asked to guard a big center with footwork, just to clean up from the weak side.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, though. Cousins is a very good post defender, but that does tend to result in unavoidable foul calls. One of the benefits of playing JT out there with Cousins is as a second good post defender and a foul sponge. I guess it is a question of soaking fouls from post defense or soaking them defending the PnR and dribble penetration.

 

[206Fan]

Both Turner and Porzingas seem like great fits next to Cousins on paper but both scare me. I've watched enough of Turner but I've lately spent some time watching the tape that I could find of Porzingas.

Both can block shots and be a weakside/help defender and both have nice shooting touch. Turner adds rebounding and some offensive versatility but he is just so plodding/mechanical in his movements and needs a lot of work on both sides of the ball. Porzingas is very fluid and an even better shooter but he is weak physically without the frame to add a lot of weight. But worse than that his rebounding numbers are low in part because he lacks the strength to battle down low but also because he doesn't have a lot of fight in him. He gives up post position too easily, doesn't fight hard enough for rebounds and shies from contact when attacking the basket. Part of that obviously is strength but it's the mentality that worries me more. I don't care if you get bullied - at least fight for the spot on the block on both ends.

There's nothing in his game that reminds me of Anthony Davis. AD was anchoring a great college defense and had good awareness on that end of the floor. Porzingas gets blocks because of his physical tools but he's often out of position and slow on rotations. He's got physical gifts and a skillset that seems like exactly what we want next to Cuz but it's really going to be his mindset that determines whether he's Dirk with defense or a poor mans Channing Frye.

That said, George Karl would probably be a good coach for him and he'd space the floor for Gay and Cousins. The dribble drive offense and transition would fit with what he does well (shoot and run the floor) and Cuz (and JT) could hide some of his weaknesses. I wouldn't be upset if he was the draft selection but he's a far riskier pick than WCS.

I think a lot of his rebounding problems have to do with strength. He gets pushed around a lot by the bigger guys, and I don't see how he couldn't add an extra 10-15lbs over the summer. He's only 19 and not done filling out his frame.

Nothing in his game at all? Porzingis is an athletic specimen. That is the part that reminds me of AD. The way he swiftly moves up and down the court with little ease is impressive. He can finish very nicely around the rim..ala AD. He hustles for offensive boards and always trys to get a tip in. He's so agile with quick/good footwork that I think he would do ok in guarding perimeter shooters.

I disagree with you on Porzingis being slow on rotation. One of his biggest strengths is as a help defender. He does very well on his rotations. He gets blocks because he shows a nice anticipation. Watch a few of his blocks and compare them to AD's. He's not going to be able to contain his man in the post, but once they turn around for a small hook or shot, he has the length to contest very well and block the shot. Same like AD. He's not like AD at all in terms of everything else, but there are similarities in his game.

I think Porzingis will be ok with the new wave of PFs that are all athleticism and no post game...

WCS is the safest pick we could go with. He's also the more pro ready. He gives us everything we desire on defense.


I'd only want the Kings to pick Porzingis if they felt like he'd be ready to come in and contribute at least 15min per game somewhere. If the Kings feel like they can get him ready for next season, I'd be all in it for the pick. Otherwise, I'd pass on both Porzingis and Turner.

 

[Gilles]

Fortunately with Cousins on the floor he wouldn't be asked to guard a big center with footwork, just to clean up from the weak side.

I was just picking on the title of the article. It would be absolutely hilarious to watch Kobe try to score on WCS though.

 

[funkykingston]

Porzingas may be a hard gainer. Look at his shoulders - they are very close set and narrow. Some guys don't ever really fill out (Reggie Miller comes to mind) but yes he should be able to get somewhat stronger and bigger. 10-15 lbs in a summer is asking a LOT for a guy that doesn't have the frame to add weight easily and who likely hasn't ever done serious weight work before.

I've now seen two of Porzingas' games along with a few highlight clips, DX breakdowns etc and I see a kid who isn't fundamentally sound on offense. That's not a huge deal, lots of young guys are, but he was often out of position and didn't rotate as I'd like to see. He may get blocks but he's a long way off from being a Tyson Chandler, defensive anchor/captain type. IMO he's more of a longer Andre Kirilenko shotblocker than an AD type.

He IS very fluid for his size and that also is a nice fit next to a monster rebounder and good passer in Cuz and with a coach that likes getting points in transition. And I really like his shot mechanics.

That said, it's not his lack of strength that concerns me in terms of post defense (and post offense for that matter) and rebounding - it's his lack of fight. It's as if he knows he can't compete physically so often he doesn't really try. And that's why he's a decent offensive rebounder and a poor defensive one. Crashing the offensive glass is easier if you a long, athletic guy. Defensive boards often require positioning and the strength to hold it. Maybe if he gets stronger he'll battle more but right now it's a red flag to me. He has an intriguing blend of measurements, skills etc but he can't play that soft in the NBA.

Still, after watching tape on him rather than just reading scouting reports and highlights/breakdowns I've moved from not really wanting the kid to being okay if he's the pick. If nothing else he has a very advanced offensive game for his age and one that would compliment Cousins and Gay.

 

[hrdboild]

Here's my list right now:

1. Towns - Best all around talent in the draft.
2. Mudiay - Elite PG potential.
3. Russell - Better scorer than Mudiay, weaker defender.
4. Okafor - He's not a good fit for us, but I feel like you have to take him top 4 anyway on talent alone.
5. Johnson - I think his overall talent is a notch above Winslow.
6. Turner - I already talked about him in the other draft topic (here). I think he's underrated as a prospect.
7. Winslow - Gifted athlete, solid defender, non-stop motor.
8. WCS - Freakishly mobile 7 footer with good defensive fundamentals.
9. Porzingis - Mobile bigman shooter. Needs to be able to defend to stay on the floor.
10. Booker - 3 SGs in a row?! I just think he's the best talent left on the board here.

 

[kingsboi]

Nik Stauskas and Ben McLemore played in top notch conferences and look at them, both had abysmal rookie campaigns and Ben has been better but still shaky in his second year. Look at Gobert, if you re do the draft he's a top 3 if not the #1 pick last year. This year the kid Nurkic from Denver had one of the bigger rookie impacts and is only 19. Euro basketball has improved a lot over the years and in many ways its better than college in terms of evaluating talent, definetly more talented in terms of player pool. The Euro prospects play against the top European players that aren't in the NBA and a lot of ex NBA guys and American players that are a notch below NBA level. All that and you are playing professional basketball, learning the business of the game and not having to go to class like College players. The NCAA is a joke system that only exists in America because of tradition.

With that said this kid Kristaps Porzingis in an interesting prospect that fits what we need out of the 4 position and would fit with Karl. 7'1 and a fluid athlete that can run with a pure stroke and length to help inside. He has a thin frame but in the current NBA landscape that isn't really an issue, especially with Cousins inside and even Gay. With Vlade in the front office and Karl as the coach, I would not be surprised if we take this kid. This board would go absolutely insane but in terms of need, he pretty much fits what we want from the 4 spot to a tee.

every draft it seems there is a can't miss Euro prospect in the lottery and more often than not they don't pan out or just don't come over. It's the european players that are older and later in the rounds that find more success it seems, that's not to say you can't find a productive euro player but you don't take this kid in the lottery if you are serious about winning next season.

 

[jcwkings]

every draft it seems there is a can't miss Euro prospect in the lottery and more often than not they don't pan out or just don't come over. It's the european players that are older and later in the rounds that find more success it seems, that's not to say you can't find a productive euro player but you don't take this kid in the lottery if you are serious about winning next season.

No, you don't take him if your intention is to try and start him right away. We need to get a solid veteran PF that can start over the next 2 to 3 seasons while Porzingis comes off the bench and develops on the floor and in the weight room(Amir Johnson seems like a viable option). You then hope that by year 2 or 3 he is ready to start. The problem is we keep drafting guys expecting them to start and play 38 mintutes straight away. We saw how that went with Ben, and Nik who was asked much less of didn't even meet those expectations.

For instance if the rotation next year is

PG: Collison/McCallum/Miller
SG: Afflalo/ Ben or Nik
SF: Gay/Casspi
PF: Johnson/Porzingis/Evans
C: Cousins/JT

Now you are on to something as far as competing for the playoffs next season.

 

[kingsboi]

No, you don't take him if your intention is to try and start him right away. We need to get a solid veteran PF that can start over the next 2 to 3 seasons while Porzingis comes off the bench and develops on the floor and in the weight room(Amir Johnson seems like a viable option). You then hope that by year 2 or 3 he is ready to start. The problem is we keep drafting guys expecting them to start and play 38 mintutes straight away. We saw how that went with Ben, and Nik who was asked much less of didn't even meet those expectations.

For instance if the rotation next year is

PG: Collison/McCallum/Miller
SG: Afflalo/ Ben or Nik
SF: Gay/Casspi
PF: Johnson/Porzingis/Evans
C: Cousins/JT

Now you are on to something as far as competing for the playoffs next season.

Ben's draft is one of the worst drafts in recent memory and not many players from that draft are lighting the league up exactly. The Nik drafting was puzzling because it's back to back SG's being taken but Nik has a better understanding for the game than Ben does IMO so I think he will pick the game up at a much faster clip and hence will produce more for us than Ben. Why would you draft a player and stash him on the bench for 2-3 years...it's time to win games. I didn't mention starting a rookie by the way but there are more viable options that can help us now and later and not just later, if at all.

 

[206Fan]

WCS had a TERRIBLE game. He did a good job at denying Kaminsky at times, but he was terrible today. Almost invisible.

 

[Darth Divac]

Towns didn't do so hot either. Kaminsky absolutely lit him up.

 

[The_Jamal]

WCS had a TERRIBLE game. He did a good job at denying Kaminsky at times, but he was terrible today. Almost invisible.

No doubt Kaminsky opened some eyes tonight. Towns and WCS both grade as above average NBA defenders, and Kaminskkkkkkkkkkkkky took it to em.

 

[Kingster]

Dekker should be a top 10 player. I don't why we haven't heard more about this kid. He's mobile, plays D, rebounds, hits 3 point shots, drives to the basket. What more do you want? His performance on the court against the NBA athleticism of Kentucky speaks volumes.

 

[206Fan]

Towns didn't do so hot either. Kaminsky absolutely lit him up.

I'm surprised Towns went 7/11. It felt like he had a quiet game. Most of his pts came in the 1st half I think. I don't think Towns got enough help from WCS tonight

 

[206Fan]

Dekker should be a top 10 player. I don't why we haven't heard more about this kid. He's mobile, plays D, rebounds, hits 3 point shots, drives to the basket. What more do you want? His performance on the court against the NBA athleticism of Kentucky speaks volumes.

He was ranked in the top 10-15 before the season started. People had high hopes of him becoming the player we currently see in the tournament, but he's had a pretty meh season in 2015. Kaminsky is the one that exploded.

The primary reason why a dekker is not a top 10 player is because you have to look at his overall play, and not just tournament. He averaged around like 13pts 5 Rebs this regular season while shooting decent from 3. He wasn't consistent in his scoring performances. His stock started dropping because he wasn't putting up the numbers. He's always been regarded as a 1st round pick though. DX has him at 16 right now so he's started to rise again.

We don't talk about him much here mostly because he's kind of out of our draft range. With the Kings, you're talking about potentially the fifth pick.

But I agree with you. He's a very very nice player. Don't forget he's like 6'9!

 

[Kingster]

Towns was impressive to me. He just didn't get the ball enough. If they kept feeding him in the post, it could have been an entirely different game. He's got quick jumping ability for a guy that big, soft touch, good mobility and coordination, good aggression. It won't surprise me at all that he becomes a good NBA outside shooter in time, as well as having an inside game. He just needs to add some strength. To me, he and Dekker and Kaminsky were the three best players on the floor.

 

[Kingster]

He was ranked in the top 10-15 before the season started. People had high hopes of him becoming the player we currently see in the tournament, but he's had a pretty meh season in 2015. Kaminsky is the one that exploded.

The primary reason why a dekker is not a top 10 player is because you have to look at his overall play, and not just tournament. He averaged around like 13pts 5 Rebs this regular season while shooting decent from 3. He wasn't consistent in his scoring performances. His stock started dropping because he wasn't putting up the numbers. He's always been regarded as a 1st round pick though. DX has him at 16 right now so he's started to rise again.

We don't talk about him much here mostly because he's kind of out of our draft range. With the Kings, you're talking about potentially the fifth pick.

But I agree with you. He's a very very nice player. Don't forget he's like 6'9!

Thanks for the info. It was interesting to me that Wisconsin put the ball during crunch time in the hands of Dekker. They obviously have a lot of faith in him.

 

[jcwkings]

Did anyone watch the Duke game? I was at work but I want to know how Winslow did. I think the guy will be a star, kind of has that Harden ability to get into seams and finish strong. He plays with a swagger too and has an NBA body already.

 

[Gilles]

Michigan State started the game very well, but at some point the thought "Hey, we might actually win this game" must have appeared and put a lot of pressure on them. Too many TOs lead to a lot of transition. Small guys from Duke all chipped in with drives. Winslow didn't show anything new except a nice drive vs Dawson with crossover, similar to one Kaminsky showed against WCS (EDIT: Kaminsky's move was actually a spin move - I was probably half asleep and mistook it for crossover ) - good handles. Okafor is getting more comfortable with a bank shot. Denzel was hot, went after rebounds, but Trice was pretty shaky after the first 5 minutes.

Pretty much nothing changed the draft stock for Kentucky players. Dekker and Kaminsky improved a bit.
Tank scored on WCS with two pretty impressive moves, two or three times Kentucky guards just switched on him, what was clearly by design - stupid one, and were scored on every time. Frank stopped Towns most of times from establishing deep position, but 3 times it happened - game over, basket. Kaminsky didn't react quick enough a few times on defensive rebounding, letting the ball go over him for Towns to snatch it.
Lyles couldn't defend Dekker, and Sam was also punishing anyone lacking in size, who got stuck on him. On the other end Lyles had a couple of good drives on Dekker, though the finishes were contested - drives are a bit slow, but very good upper body strength and coordination to finish through contact.
Hayes just isn't ready - need more work on his handles - should return.
Koenig, Gasser and Jackson helped offense here and there. Jackson was the only one able to get deep into the paint basically at will, even if handling was a bit shaky, so he might find his place as backup PG with some seasoning. Gasser is a player for Europe.

Towns once again showed excellent upper body strength and coordination - you let him within 3 feet of the basket, it's at least 2 points - and rather weak base, being unable to establish deep position many times. Made a very good stop on Hayes - he might be able to play some 4, at least initially. Dekker and Kaminsky were a problem for him though.
Willie, Willie, Willie...someone was watching that C-Webb clip way too many times. What's surprising not once was he reprimanded after both long jumpers and the drive. Shooting wasn't all that different from that of Lyles in both motion and result though. Haven't seen him shoot from that long before, and he did it twice. Drive looked kinda smooth until the finish, of course, and so did nice pass redirecting the ball from Harrison to Towns. Haven't seen anything like this either, so I wouldn't bet, that Calipari stifled his skill set, just yet. What this all feels like is that he was clearly distracted.
Aaron Harrison had a couple of nice drives from beyond the arc all the way to the rim - will definitely be drafted.

 

[206Fan]

Did anyone watch the Duke game? I was at work but I want to know how Winslow did. I think the guy will be a star, kind of has that Harden ability to get into seams and finish strong. He plays with a swagger too and has an NBA body already.

Winslow had a good game. His perimeters D was good and he did another nice job at the boards. He played tight like everyone else and MSU couldn't handle it..at all. On offense, Winslow was very impressive and aggressive. He attacked when he had the ball. He also got a few pts in transition. He had a lot of ft attempts and shot the ball very well from there. His pts are a little inflated because they just kept fouling him at the end. Nice overall game.

 

[jdbraver]

every draft it seems there is a can't miss Euro prospect in the lottery and more often than not they don't pan out or just don't come over. It's the european players that are older and later in the rounds that find more success it seems, that's not to say you can't find a productive euro player but you don't take this kid in the lottery if you are serious about winning next season.

Not sure why you draft a 7'0 skinny euro when we could just put rudy at the 4. We need interior defense and a immediate impact. WCS does that.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Not sure why you draft a 7'0 skinny euro when we could just put rudy at the 4. We need interior defense and a immediate impact. WCS does that.

Wait, you're saying WCS isn't 7'0 and skinny? Or is your Euro comment really about something else?

 

[Tetsujin]

Wait, you're saying WCS isn't 7'0 and skinny? Or is your Euro comment really about something else?

Well, WCS is 7'0" and skinny but he's also probably the best defensive player (most impactful defensive player, at least) in this year's draft and had three years worth of college film to back that up, playing with and against current NBA players in that span and playing in a system that has quite a few concepts translate to the pros (this isn't exactly Jim Boeheim's zone scheme we're talking about here). Meanwhile, European prospects are always a bit harder to pencil in at the theoretical NBA level as the European game and system, with a completely different level of competition and different emphasis placed on different concepts than in the NCAA and NBA. Sure, you could always get lucky and pick up a "raw" prospect who pans out like Dirk, Goran Dragic, or (thus far) Rudy Gobert, who, in all fairness, looked super lost as a rookie, but you could also take a chance only to be rewarded with "talented" raw European players like Andres Biedrins, Jan Vesely, or Rudy Fernandez, who never quite put things together like the scouts hoped they would and quickly find themselves out of the NBA, unable to grow enough as players to maintain a roster spot in the NBA, probably because they lack the "fundamentals" that most European players are stereotyped as having.

As intriguing as Porzingis is, he's currently not exactly playing against world breaking talent and is actually twenty pounds lighter than the already skinny WCS at 220 pounds, which, as a power forward, is veering towards being dangerously underweight for your position, especially as a seven footer. (For comparisons, Rudy Gay is listed as 230, Jason Thompson is at 250, Derrick Williams is at 240, Ryan Hollins is at 230, and Boogie is at 270). After bulking up, Anthony Davis, a guy with a similar body type as Porzingis, is now listed as 240 pounds and still has some difficulty bodying up on guys.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Well, WCS is 7'0" and skinny but he's also probably the best defensive player (most impactful defensive player, at least) in this year's draft and had three years worth of college film to back that up, playing with and against current NBA players in that span and playing in a system that has quite a few concepts translate to the pros (this isn't exactly Jim Boeheim's zone scheme we're talking about here). Meanwhile, European prospects are always a bit harder to pencil in at the theoretical NBA level as the European game and system, with a completely different level of competition and different emphasis placed on different concepts than in the NCAA and NBA. Sure, you could always get lucky and pick up a "raw" prospect who pans out like Dirk, Goran Dragic, or (thus far) Rudy Gobert, who, in all fairness, looked super lost as a rookie, but you could also take a chance only to be rewarded with "talented" raw European players like Andres Biedrins, Jan Vesely, or Rudy Fernandez, who never quite put things together like the scouts hoped they would and quickly find themselves out of the NBA, unable to grow enough as players to maintain a roster spot in the NBA, probably because they lack the "fundamentals" that most European players are stereotyped as having.

As intriguing as Porzingis is, he's currently not exactly playing against world breaking talent and is actually twenty pounds lighter than the already skinny WCS at 220 pounds, which, as a power forward, is veering towards being dangerously underweight for your position, especially as a seven footer. (For comparisons, Rudy Gay is listed as 230, Jason Thompson is at 250, Derrick Williams is at 240, Ryan Hollins is at 230, and Boogie is at 270). After bulking up, Anthony Davis, a guy with a similar body type as Porzingis, is now listed as 240 pounds and still has some difficulty bodying up on guys.

I know all of this and agree. My point was that the reason for not drafting Porzingis shouldn't be because he's a "skinny 7'0 Euro", given that WCS can be described exactly the same (without the Euro part obviously). The reason should be based on their skillset - WCS is clearly a much better fit given how bad our defense is. It really hasn't got anything to do with being 7'0 and skinny, given that they both are.

Basically, I was calling out a pretty stupid comment.

 

[Gilles]

Actually there's different levels of skinny. You can be skinny with wide shoulders like Anthony Davis or with narrow like John Henson. 3-4 years into his career Porzingis might still be at 230. Caulie-Stein doesn't look like Davis either, but he should be able to get to 250 and hover around that for his career. Base/core training to get the strength of Reggie Evans rather than bulking up is the way to go for him.