[Grades] Grades v. Clippers 2/21/2015

[Capt. Factorial]

If he's put on 10-15lbs its just putting back on the weight he lost in december. he came out of that thing looking way too skinny.

People often get too stuck on lean. Maybe even Karl, we'll see. Lean isn't always a great thing for a big guy. Fat is not. But bulk is very much needed to fight those inside battles where you're being swarmed by packs of big guys.

So last year I got the opportunity (via Crown Downtown) to stand in one of the pre-game high-five lines, and of course that meant I got an up close and personal look at the players as they came through. From what you see on the TV cameras I expected Cousins to be a little pudgy, but let me say emphatically that he was nothing of the sort. He was big, no doubt, but he's big because he has an immense frame. He was far, far, far leaner than I thought he was. Like world class athlete type lean (which, to be fair, he ought to be...but he in fact is). So coming off of meningitis, he almost certainly was too thin. The camera lies a bit, as is well known to those in the acting profession. But default healthy Cousins that we've known for the last two years or so - definitely not overweight.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Please please tell me you're making this up.

no. one of the Kings media people tweeted something about it the other day. saying George Karl plans to get DMC's minutes into the low 30s per game

 

[IfAt1st]

I said I wasn't concerned, and I don't think I tried to misrepresent your concerns. What I said was that to be concerned about Cousins lack of leaping ability is ridiculous. That sir is not a misrepresentation, its my opinion of your concern. Let me cut to the chase here. What irritates me about your posts, is that they border on condescension. Everything is black and white with you, and anyone that doesn't see it that way, is delusional. Your exact word by the way.

You made a generalized response, and you're right - it did quote Brick, and then moved near the subject of my posts in this thread and the game thread (the ONLY ones in my history on this board where I have made points seriously questioning/challenging Boogie, BTW). So maybe some misunderstanding happened there?
If you weren't referring to my posts in your post I quoted, then I'll take back my statement that you misrepresented me.

Here's exactly what I said in regards to being delusional: (quoting really helps, BTW)

He was "Bad Demarcus" just like when Rudy Gay is "Bad Rudy", just like when IT went "Heroball IT".
Each of them has crippling behaviors that will stop them from realizing their potential in the NBA.

To not agree with that is delusional.

If you are suggesting I'm incorrect in that statement, than you are suggesting that DMC was not "Bad Demarcus" vs the Clippers.
Also that "Bad Rudy" (aka "Toronto Rudy") and "Heroball IT" don't hurt Rudy and IT's careers. (BTW - They were both traded because of it)

Are you suggesting that?

When you give your opinion, and then add, if you don't agree with me, your delusional, I call that arrogance. And to show you how freaking arrogant you are, you assume that my entire post was in response to you. In case you didn't notice, I started my post referring to a post by Bricky, who I might add, I have a ton more respect for, than I do you. And Bricky and I have had our disagreements. My post was a generalization response to a lot of the posts that I had read, yours being one of them. So let some of the air out of your head. As for defending Cousins, I doubt you even come close to defending him as many times as I have. I don't expect any medals for that. I've also criticized him a fair amount of times. Anyway, don't let me sway you one way or the other. After all, I'm delusional.

Hey, guess what?
I AM arrogant.
I'm also right most of the time.
I've got the posting history to prove it.

Wanna know who else is arrogant?
Brick.
And I've got no problem with him being arrogant, cuz he's right most of the time.
Same with rainmaker.

I've had my disagreements with them too - but I wouldn't discount their posts because I felt they were "arrogant". I base my judgment of a poster on the content of their post, not (for the most part) how they post it.

But I'd really really rather not have this be a pissing match between personalities on this board - I've had my fill of those, thank you, and will bow out of this discussion if it stays personal and not directed solely on our observations of the Kings, and specifically in this instance, of what we see (and I'm concerned) with Demarcus.

And I agree, these are all just our opinions. Mine are not guaranteed to be right, just as yours aren't.
I place higher value on opinions that come from people who have been proven right a good % of the time, and ones that are backed up by observation and analysis (of stats, of behaviors, of history, etc).

 

[IfAt1st]

Not making the All-NBA team is a relatively dumb criteria for being a top player at your position.

That's confusing.
So the yearly award for the Top 3 of each position in the league..... is a dumb criteria for determining the top position players?

You seem especially keen on pointing out that there are better centers than Demarcus currently in the NBA. Name them. Or are you going to move the goalposts again?

You quoted me, but I'm unsure you read my words:

So until this year when he makes it, he won't be considered as one by the rest of the league (Not me, you understand - the rest of the league)

I even italicized that wasn't my argument - it's Boogie's perception from the rest of the league.

My personal belief is that he's the best statistical Center in the league (but that's not saying much - the Center position is pretty barren right now in the league, stats-wise).
The most effective center? The most reliable? The one that will lead you to playoff wins? No.
Not yet.
And not because he's not in the playoffs.
Demarcus is just not there yet. If and when (and god I hope it's next year) he gets in real competitive games (and playoffs), he will have to figure out a way around his Achilles Heel:
All it takes is one of 2 things to neutralize Cousins' impact (somewhat or wholly):
* Flopping
* Fouling

His style of play means he is almost completely dependent on how the refs are calling the game.*
That's simply not a reliable, or winning strategy if you are on the losing side of NBA perception.

* He is also dependent on having shooters to kick out to, to punish the double-teaming he will have to surmount to be perceived as one of the best.

 

[Albatros]

Malone did a great job of fighting cuz's battles for him some of the time with the refs. This upped his focus on the game.

Karl would do well to copy that. And historically he's not been shy in that strategy.

 

[dude12]

In reference to some of the posts above, DeMarcus Cousins is the best center in the league. Period. To think he's not is to ignore the fact that most players are also dependent on their teammates play....meaning he's doing this with not many credible 3 point shooters on the team....meaning Cousins has to beat double and triple teams constantly or packed in paints. How many bigs actually have to face the same types of defense? Legitimate question. I have a hard time coming up with any off the top of my head. And I'm not arrogant, I'm just right most of the time...at least in my own mind.

 

[Padrino]

In reference to some of the posts above, DeMarcus Cousins is the best center in the league. Period. To think he's not is to ignore the fact that most players are also dependent on their teammates play....meaning he's doing this with not many credible 3 point shooters on the team....meaning Cousins has to beat double and triple teams constantly or packed in paints. How many bigs actually have to face the same types of defense? Legitimate question. I have a hard time coming up with any off the top of my head. And I'm not arrogant, I'm just right most of the time...at least in my own mind.

i'm not sure there's another team in the entire nba who's star player is on an island as often as demarcus cousins is. if the kings' front office ever manages to surround him with some capable and consistent talent, life will get much easier for big cuz. in the meantime, he's having to do far too much on his own, but he's still managing to pound on the opposition with dominant regularity. for an insider's perspective, here's tyson chandler's take on demarcus cousins in a piece he wrote for The Players Tribune on defending the league's elite bigs:

When you think of DeMarcus, you think of raw power. But he’s also very skilled for his size. For a guy to have that kind of mass and strength, and be able to move the way he does and shoot the ball from the perimeter is very rare. He can also operate from the block. Versatility is what makes a guy tough to guard. Anthony Davis is lean, fast, athletic and long. He’s going to run the floor and find open creases to cut through. He’s going to use angles to catch defenders off balance and score. DeMarcus Cousins is a big body. He’s not going to use angles. He’s going to bring it right to you. He’s most effective when he can use his power to muscle you. Davis wants to get around you or above you. Cousins wants to get into you.

Sometimes, if you’re just watching on TV, you might think that a guy has perfect defense on DeMarcus because he’s right up on him. But that’s exactly what he wants. He loves to body up on guys, and then use the spin move to roll toward the hoop and finish at the rim. He might have the best post-spin move in the league.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/elite-bigs-101/

 

[dude12]

i'm not sure there's another team in the entire nba who's star player is on an island as often as demarcus cousins is. if the kings' front office ever manages to surround him with some capable and consistent talent, life will get much easier for big cuz. in the meantime, he's having to do far too much on his own, but he's still managing to pound on the opposition with dominant regularity. for an insider's perspective, here's tyson chandler's take on demarcus cousins in a piece he wrote for The Players Tribune on defending the league's elite bigs:


http://www.theplayerstribune.com/elite-bigs-101/

Great read and analysis by Tyson Chandler. Love reading stuff from players on other players like this. These guys are the ones battling and I like their point of view.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

If he's put on 10-15lbs its just putting back on the weight he lost in december. he came out of that thing looking way too skinny.

People often get too stuck on lean. Maybe even Karl, we'll see. Lean isn't always a great thing for a big guy. Fat is not. But bulk is very much needed to fight those inside battles where you're being swarmed by packs of big guys.

It looks like he gained 10-15lbs comparing to the start of the season. What I'm seeing at times is that he's lagging behind and exhausted. And he drags his legs in an odd way where you think that his knees are sore or something. I understand he needs his weight and strength to battle, but added weight translates to injuries and a shortened productive career in the long run.

Boogie is one of those who is naturally strong without hitting the weights a lot. I think getting lighter on his feet will help him in many ways regardless.

 

[King Baller]

It looks like he gained 10-15lbs comparing to the start of the season. What I'm seeing at times is that he's lagging behind and exhausted. And he drags his legs in an odd way where you think that his knees are sore or something. I understand he needs his weight and strength to battle, but added weight translates to injuries and a shortened productive career in the long run.

Boogie is one of those who is naturally strong without hitting the weights a lot. I think getting lighter on his feet will help him in many ways regardless.

I think you are making something out of nothing.

At the start of the season Cousins was in superb condition. His bout with meningitis has affected his conditioning and he won't fully recover until the off season. I watched a close family member go through the same thing and it takes months to fully recover.

In addition Cousins is being double and triple teamed all game long. He is being hacked and fouled on every play. The primary defenders are subbed out and Boogie continues to play because the Kings are not very good when he is out most nights.

I think you are making little of the effort Cousins exerts battling all the other teams best big defenders.

Cousins is a Great Center and the Kings are lucky to have him.

KB

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

I think you are making something out of nothing.

At the start of the season Cousins was in superb condition. His bout with meningitis has affected his conditioning and he won't fully recover until the off season. I watched a close family member go through the same thing and it takes months to fully recover.

In addition Cousins is being double and triple teamed all game long. He is being hacked and fouled on every play. The primary defenders are subbed out and Boogie continues to play because the Kings are not very good when he is out most nights.

I think you are making little of the effort Cousins exerts battling all the other teams best big defenders.

Cousins is a Great Center and the Kings are lucky to have him.

KB

Read my other posts in history. I love Cousins. I'm not sure whats the "Cousins is a Great Center and the Kings are lucky to have him." got to do with what I'm saying. Yes he is great. But he has obviously put on some pounds. You don't want to wait till the injuries come before you start to get lighter is what I'm saying. There is a reason why Duncan has been able to stay injury free for the most part towards the end of his career while Shaq could not. Again, not saying he is doing anything wrong. But losing a few pounds will help him in the long run. I don't think there is disputing that.

 

[TheJewishKing]

I remember from a strange reason that I woke up before dawn the night the Kings faced the Clippers and the result were 29-21 or something in the conclusion of the first quarter and I was really impressed, because the Clippers now are not the same Clippers we faced at the beginning of the season and we are obviously are not the same team we were in the beginning of the year. I went back to sleep and when I woke I saw we lost by 27 points deficit, I was really disappointed but I also acknowledged the fact that we can't win a game against Boston and then think that we will be able to beat a team like the Clippers on the next day, after hiring a coach and trading a player, I guess things needs time to be built again, making it to the post-season this year is almost insanely delusional, therefore, I believe that we can take things slow for now, let things happen on their natural pace, we can't pressure it.

Most of our starting five weren't at their best I believe besides McCallum which is looking really decent thus far, Gay wasn't very productive, Cousins struggled and wasn't able to display his elite skills, Ben isn't looking good for a while now, and JT was again scoreless and you couldn't feel his affect in the game.

On the other hand, it really seems like we are witnessing some sparks from Casspi which are giving deja vu to Casspi's effort in the beginning of the season under coach Malone and prior to his knee injury, I am really glad to watch Casspi contributing and displaying skills we didn't necessarily expect him to do, like the vast amount of rebounds he was able to grab, he led both team in this category and even though few of his rebounds were in the what so-called "garbage time" it still shows that the guy has the skills it takes to really contribute on this category in the game, he also got his confidence back it seems and keep attacking the basket and distributing the ball, he was really a crucial piece of the puzzle in the win against Boston.

 

[pshn80]

I think you are making something out of nothing.

At the start of the season Cousins was in superb condition. His bout with meningitis has affected his conditioning and he won't fully recover until the off season. I watched a close family member go through the same thing and it takes months to fully recover.

In addition Cousins is being double and triple teamed all game long. He is being hacked and fouled on every play. The primary defenders are subbed out and Boogie continues to play because the Kings are not very good when he is out most nights.

I think you are making little of the effort Cousins exerts battling all the other teams best big defenders.

Cousins is a Great Center and the Kings are lucky to have him.

KB

As you say, Cuz is a great center and the Kings are lucky to have him. Now let's get on to constructive criticism. How can we get Cuz to improve in areas the team really needs to improve in? It seems like most times when this subject comes up, and he conversation digresses to how great he is and that's that.

 

[King Baller]

As you say, Cuz is a great center and the Kings are lucky to have him. Now let's get on to constructive criticism. How can we get Cuz to improve in areas the team really needs to improve in? It seems like most times when this subject comes up, and he conversation digresses to how great he is and that's that.

What areas do you think Cousins needs to improve on? Scoring? Rebounding? Defense? Drawing charges?

Please expand on your thinking

 

[King Baller]

I don't think his weight is an issue

 

[Darth Divac]

What areas do you think Cousins needs to improve on? Scoring? Rebounding? Defense? Drawing charges?

Please expand on your thinking

Not to jump into the Cuz hate wagon, but like every player he can improve.

 

[pshn80]

What areas do you think Cousins needs to improve on? Scoring? Rebounding? Defense? Drawing charges?

Please expand on your thinking

Be glad to. Here are some of the symptoms that suggest some kind of improvements are needed-
Slow getting over the half court line on offense,
Dribble driving into multiple man defenders,
Forcing shots leading to bad consequences too often,
Dribbling up court after a rebound and keeping the ball too long,
Not passing out to open man often enough,
Coasting when tired,
Taking time out of last to argue or emote for refs,
Just plain turning the ball wh n it is totally unnecessary,
I've shook my head at other things which don't to mind at the moment.

These give hints that there is room for improvement in his personal play and his team play. Since I'm no where near an expert, I really appreciate hearing what others think.

 

[bajaden]

I did, you're right.

Still well below Boogie's projected level. Hard to even put him above the 70s all offense MVPs in McAdoo and Cowens. But yeah, HOF center I just forgot.

Actually I'd take McAdoo off the list. I've always had him as a PF

You made a generalized response, and you're right - it did quote Brick, and then moved near the subject of my posts in this thread and the game thread (the ONLY ones in my history on this board where I have made points seriously questioning/challenging Boogie, BTW). So maybe some misunderstanding happened there?
If you weren't referring to my posts in your post I quoted, then I'll take back my statement that you misrepresented me.

Here's exactly what I said in regards to being delusional: (quoting really helps, BTW) If you are suggesting I'm incorrect in that statement, than you are suggesting that DMC was not "Bad Demarcus" vs the Clippers.
Also that "Bad Rudy" (aka "Toronto Rudy") and "Heroball IT" don't hurt Rudy and IT's careers. (BTW - They were both traded because of it)

Are you suggesting that?

Hey, guess what?
I AM arrogant.
I'm also right most of the time.
I've got the posting history to prove it.

Wanna know who else is arrogant?
Brick.
And I've got no problem with him being arrogant, cuz he's right most of the time.
Same with rainmaker.

I've had my disagreements with them too - but I wouldn't discount their posts because I felt they were "arrogant". I base my judgment of a poster on the content of their post, not (for the most part) how they post it.

But I'd really really rather not have this be a pissing match between personalities on this board - I've had my fill of those, thank you, and will bow out of this discussion if it stays personal and not directed solely on our observations of the Kings, and specifically in this instance, of what we see (and I'm concerned) with Demarcus.

And I agree, these are all just our opinions. Mine are not guaranteed to be right, just as yours aren't.
I place higher value on opinions that come from people who have been proven right a good % of the time, and ones that are backed up by observation and analysis (of stats, of behaviors, of history, etc).

LOL, I supose I should be offended for not being included in the elite grouping of Bricky and Rainmaker, but then you left out many others who I respect as well. By the way, contrary to what you may think, Bricky isn't arrogant. I like to think he just doesn't take the time to use his well hidden social skills. I don't think Rainmaker is arrogant either. Humorless sometimes, but not arrogant. As for me, I'm just an old fart that likes to irritate people from time to time. There's a difference between having a big ego, and being arrogant. Having played baseball at a very high level, I can attest that if you don't think your one of the best players in the world, you'll never make it. Of course, there is your own personal perception, (not you) and then there's reality. You see I think I'm right all the time as well. I just don't say so. And I'll respectfully leave it at that.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Not to jump into the Cuz hate wagon, but like every player he can improve.

It's not really "hate" on Boogie. EVERYONE can improve. For Cousins, he can improve his conditioning and lose a few lbs. Yes, he has improved tremendously comparing to his rookie year in conditioning.

But to have a long and free of major injuries career, being lighter always helps. I'm not saying become Pau Gasol thin. But he can benefit from losing 10 lbs. Big men always seem to have problems with their feet and knees. With the way Boogie dances his way around opponents, that puts a lot of stress on those knees, feet and ankle. You can get by when you are 24. But don't wait till it's too late like Yao. Be smart and condition it now.

 

[Kingster]

A few tidbits from Napier:

1) Kings will make massive changes in personnel over the offseason.

2) Nobody is guaranteed a spot on the team, including Cousins and Gay

3) He guarantees that Karl is going to put a stop to Cousins' pg role on this team; no more Magic Johnson show.

4) It all starts with Karl on this team. He is the starting point for decision making. He will be diligently assessing personnel over the remaining games this season. (My read: Cousins isn't the starting point; Karl is).

 

[Spike]

I'm guessing point #2 is mostly lip service. Sure, "no one is safe", but in reality, you don't just dump elite players.

 

[The_Jamal]

I'm guessing point #2 is mostly lip service. Sure, "no one is safe", but in reality, you don't just dump elite players.

Of course, but it's one of those things you have to say for "team unity" and "everyone is equal" when we all know that's not how it is.

 

[Bricklayer]

Not to jump into the Cuz hate wagon, but like every player he can improve.

He can.

But as mentioned, Michael Jordan could improve to. You have a walking talking HOFer in a Kings uniform. Only the third time that's happened in 30 years. And the first time we ever drafted one. Could said HOFer improve? Of course. Shaq had no jumper and was a crapty FT shooter. Magic took a set shot and had no position to defend. Admiral had a weak post game and struggled when games were slowed into halfcourt battles. Bird was a crap athlete. Moses was not a shotblocker. Dr. J struggled in the playoffs. You name it, they could improve. Doesn't change the fact you've got a walking talking HOFer in a Kings uniform. Appreciate that fact. And recognize that while the HOFer could improve to become an even brighter HOFer, the rest of the roster could improve a hell of a lot more just to become worthy of the HOFer.

 

[Bricklayer]

A few tidbits from Napier:

1) Kings will make massive changes in personnel over the offseason.

2) Nobody is guaranteed a spot on the team, including Cousins and Gay

3) He guarantees that Karl is going to put a stop to Cousins' pg role on this team; no more Magic Johnson show.

4) It all starts with Karl on this team. He is the starting point for decision making. He will be diligently assessing personnel over the remaining games this season. (My read: Cousins isn't the starting point; Karl is).

I don't entirely trust (as in not at all) Napier when he's on his podium making statements like these, because half the time they, oh gee, track with things HE'S always advocating himself. And what do you know, magically the front office just happens to adopt his talking points? Maybe, or maybe there is a bit of intentional conflation/wish fulfillment involved with statements such as "I guarantee you Coach Karl will...".

 

[Tetsujin]

What areas do you think Cousins needs to improve on? Scoring? Rebounding? Defense? Drawing charges?

Please expand on your thinking

Well he's obviously too fat to play basketball now.

 

[pshn80]

I don't entirely trust (as in not at all) Napier when he's on his podium making statements like these, because half the time they, oh gee, track with things HE'S always advocating himself. And what do you know, magically the front office just happens to adopt his talking points? Maybe, or maybe there is a bit of intentional conflation/wish fulfillment involved with statements such as "I guarantee you Coach Karl will...".

Why not take Napear's stuff, digest it, and believe like it is from anyone else who is close to the team? You and I are together, why knock Napear?

 

[lawlman91]

Be glad to. Here are some of the symptoms that suggest some kind of improvements are needed-
Slow getting over the half court line on offense,
Dribble driving into multiple man defenders,
Forcing shots leading to bad consequences too often,
Dribbling up court after a rebound and keeping the ball too long,
Not passing out to open man often enough,
Coasting when tired,
Taking time out of last to argue or emote for refs,
Just plain turning the ball wh n it is totally unnecessary,
I've shook my head at other things which don't to mind at the moment.

These give hints that there is room for improvement in his personal play and his team play. Since I'm no where near an expert, I really appreciate hearing what others think.

Slow getting over the half court line on offense.

A large part of this is out of his control; he plays a lot, and to improve this aspect of his game would need some conditioning wizardry from the staff. But its possible.

Dribble driving into multiple man defenders.

This is O.K.; he needs to be in more control, though, and looks for foul calls less. Let the goal be the shot, and the fouls will come.

Forcing shots leading to bad consequences too often.

Yes. He needs to take less perimeter shots and back down his defender/dribble drive. Its more likely that the ball goes in when a player is close to the basket.

Not passing out to open man often enough.

He does this an O.K. amount IMO, but he needs to improve his passing touch. It gets picked off way too often.

Coasting when tired.

Same as the "slow getting..." above.

Taking time out of last to argue or emote for refs.

In the voice of Cousins, "Absolutely." Let Karl do that.

Turning the ball over.

Yes. Pass better and more wisely. Don't force anything. Have you seen Andre Miller? He goes for the solid play, with or without ball movement (just making a tangential point here). I remember in Andre's first game he repeatedly gave Cousins a post-entry pass, which normally doesn't count as an assist or "ball movement". But Andre typically makes the solid decision.

Other Kings players should do the same.

 

[zip95843]

Went to the game... What a disappointment... Cousins needs to go. Terrible, just terrible.
He was, most of the time, mopping the floor with his uniform.

No perimeter shooters... What happened?...

Ugh....

 

[sdballer]

Went to the game... What a disappointment... Cousins needs to go. Terrible, just terrible.
He was, most of the time, mopping the floor with his uniform.

No perimeter shooters... What happened?...

Ugh....

True. I'm going to channel my inner gqgabriel and suggest we trade any player that has a bad game. Some fans just don't make sense.

 

[sdballer]

Why not take Napear's stuff, digest it, and believe like it is from anyone else who is close to the team? You and I are together, why knock Napear?

Because he's lost almost any credibility he had with the way his radio personality interferes with whatever basketball knowledge he may possess.