George Karl, Mark Jackson or ??? (merged)
- Thread starter funkykingston
- Start date
Wrong. We can and MUST be mad at what we're seeing right now. And we need to be vocal about it. I'm not going to sit back and watch while the guy who saved the team for Sacramento turns around and allows it to be destroyed from within.
What we're seeing right now is crap, pure and simple. I love the Kings and I loved seeing the guys do their best tonight, but the players can only follow the orders of the coach and the coach is trying to balance what he's been told to focus on with the players he has to work with - a real no win situation.
We must have a coach come in with the bona fides to insist on doing things the way he sees fit with the assets he has available. And who's available? GEORGE KARL.
What we're seeing right now is crap, pure and simple. I love the Kings and I loved seeing the guys do their best tonight, but the players can only follow the orders of the coach and the coach is trying to balance what he's been told to focus on with the players he has to work with - a real no win situation.
We must have a coach come in with the bona fides to insist on doing things the way he sees fit with the assets he has available. And who's available? GEORGE KARL.
Getting George Karl is only going to make this slightly less bad. Malone was a good coach (I firmly believe he would have gotten better and new his offensive shortcoming which he addressed with some of his staff). He was exactly what this team and city needed. He had the respect of the players and the fans. For a front office who is supposedly so in-tune to social media, they completely mis-calculated how this town would react to this.
I have said this before, but this just shows an absolute lack of loyalty from the FO. The constant trade rumors, the current treatment of Corbin and the contempt for its fans is creating a toxic situation. I could be projecting here, but if they don't get a permanent solution to this coaching situation in the very near future they risk the chance of losing this entire roster, and in tune the fans.
I am beside myself. I have gone from exuberant optimism to petulant despair and disdain. I honestly believe if I saw one of the FO in public I would light into them. I don't know if this is arrogance or lack of understanding of how this affects people. This affected a lot more than just Malone. In fact, he probably got off the easiest, he gets his paycheck and doesn't have to deal with any of this circus act.
I have said this before, but this just shows an absolute lack of loyalty from the FO. The constant trade rumors, the current treatment of Corbin and the contempt for its fans is creating a toxic situation. I could be projecting here, but if they don't get a permanent solution to this coaching situation in the very near future they risk the chance of losing this entire roster, and in tune the fans.
I am beside myself. I have gone from exuberant optimism to petulant despair and disdain. I honestly believe if I saw one of the FO in public I would light into them. I don't know if this is arrogance or lack of understanding of how this affects people. This affected a lot more than just Malone. In fact, he probably got off the easiest, he gets his paycheck and doesn't have to deal with any of this circus act.
Yeah, after watching the team try to run, it looks just like Westphal/Smart. Scoring points but never able to control the game.
With Malone, the team could dictate the game and they did it through Cousins and defense. They just lacked shooters. (And again, they just got outshot and outgunned.)
So I don't know how much Karl would fix. Things would improve, but it feels like another step down a dark path.
With Malone, the team could dictate the game and they did it through Cousins and defense. They just lacked shooters. (And again, they just got outshot and outgunned.)
So I don't know how much Karl would fix. Things would improve, but it feels like another step down a dark path.
The Kings do hear our plea for Karl!
KingsDon'tLoveUs @allbenjamens 11h11 hours ago
@amiller since Vivek & Pete aren't hearing our cries I come to you begging to hire George Karl
Andrew Miller @amiller 10h10 hours ago
@allbenjamens we all hear u. He is a great coach. Lots of data points and opinions to gather to make right decision. Thx.
Patrick @SoccerRising 9h9 hours ago
@amiller @allbenjamens Means a lot to know how plugged in you all are.Please don't misinterpret fans' passion as lack of appreciation.
Andrew Miller @SoccerRising @allbenjamens the passion is what makes Sacramento special! We didn't get in this to lose. #keepthefaith
KingsDon'tLoveUs @allbenjamens 11h11 hours ago
@amiller since Vivek & Pete aren't hearing our cries I come to you begging to hire George Karl
Andrew Miller @amiller 10h10 hours ago
@allbenjamens we all hear u. He is a great coach. Lots of data points and opinions to gather to make right decision. Thx.
Patrick @SoccerRising 9h9 hours ago
@amiller @allbenjamens Means a lot to know how plugged in you all are.Please don't misinterpret fans' passion as lack of appreciation.
Andrew Miller @SoccerRising @allbenjamens the passion is what makes Sacramento special! We didn't get in this to lose. #keepthefaith
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At this point, it is so obvious it is comical. Karl has publicly stated several times he is interested, and from all accounts we never even contacted him. If we think the rest of this season is going to be bad, wait till next year. I am calling it right now, Cousins will want out next season when we are 5-15, scoring 106 a game, but giving up 112 a night. That is what we have to look forward to. Also, any chances we had of signing a FA of value this offseason evaporated when Malone was let go and we once again became an unstable and mostly sinking ship. Players, like any other employees in the modern world, want stability and order. We have none.
I don't see it. Perhaps Vivek wants Mullin, but if he did he should have waited until the end of the season to fire Malone. The team is playing at a pathetic .200 pace for Corbin - and although the holidays have forced me to miss most of the Corbin games it sounds like the team has quit on Corbin without ever buying in. You've got an entire fanbase up in arms about this - just about as bad as when the Maloofs kept trying to sell the team.
Think about that.
People are as ticked off now as they were when the previous ownership tried to make the team go away forever. You've got loyal fans saying "one more screw up and I'm gone". Obviously they're not enjoying the product, and Vivek is in the process of building a big new shiny expensive arena which is supposed to be filled with fans that enjoy the product.
There are 52 more games this season. If the next 52 look like the last 5, there's not likely to be enough fans around to fill that arena once it gets built. Furthermore, Vivek wants to be competing for a championship once the arena opens. If the next 52 games look like the last 5, this team will have no chance to compete in one short year's time under a brand new and never tested head coach.
The fans want Karl. Karl wants the job. If the rumors are true, PDA wants Karl, the rest of the front office wants Karl, and the only thing standing between Sacramento and Karl is Vivek, who is the one person who stands to lose the most by completely burning the good will of his fanbase. And one of these days he's going to figure out that he's two seconds (and counting) behind on this one and he's going to pick up Karl.
Karl at $5M is a heck of a lot cheaper than alienating a large portion of your fanbase. Vivek is smart enough to realize this, and stubborn enough to try to hold out against them. Well, Vivek, this is a stubborn fanbase. This is a fanbase that went through 13 consecutive losing seasons and set sellout records in the process. This is a fanbase that is now staring a ninth consecutive losing season in the face again. If Vivek thinks he's going to out-stubborn this fanbase, he's wrong. He'll realize that, even if he is two seconds behind in doing so.
Think about that.
People are as ticked off now as they were when the previous ownership tried to make the team go away forever. You've got loyal fans saying "one more screw up and I'm gone". Obviously they're not enjoying the product, and Vivek is in the process of building a big new shiny expensive arena which is supposed to be filled with fans that enjoy the product.
There are 52 more games this season. If the next 52 look like the last 5, there's not likely to be enough fans around to fill that arena once it gets built. Furthermore, Vivek wants to be competing for a championship once the arena opens. If the next 52 games look like the last 5, this team will have no chance to compete in one short year's time under a brand new and never tested head coach.
The fans want Karl. Karl wants the job. If the rumors are true, PDA wants Karl, the rest of the front office wants Karl, and the only thing standing between Sacramento and Karl is Vivek, who is the one person who stands to lose the most by completely burning the good will of his fanbase. And one of these days he's going to figure out that he's two seconds (and counting) behind on this one and he's going to pick up Karl.
Karl at $5M is a heck of a lot cheaper than alienating a large portion of your fanbase. Vivek is smart enough to realize this, and stubborn enough to try to hold out against them. Well, Vivek, this is a stubborn fanbase. This is a fanbase that went through 13 consecutive losing seasons and set sellout records in the process. This is a fanbase that is now staring a ninth consecutive losing season in the face again. If Vivek thinks he's going to out-stubborn this fanbase, he's wrong. He'll realize that, even if he is two seconds behind in doing so.
The way I look at everything is as follows.
Think of a rare flower, one that blooms every 8-10 years. You were a young kid when you got it from a family member. It looks like it might bloom several times between those 8-10 years, but it never reaches anything of significance, and it just ends up getting your hopes up. Now finally, after almost a decade of waiting, your flower begins to bloom and you're more excited than a little kid on Christmas Eve. You go around telling everyone, friends, family, co-workers, that your flower is finally about to bloom after 8-10 years of patiently waiting, watering it, and now you are going to make damn sure that everyone knows about it. There is one thing you notice, the color of the flower isn't what you expected. You were expecting orange, but you ended up with a blue color. No biggie, says you, just as beautiful to me and you were always one for surprises. However, your mother, who is in the fast food business, decides that this flower is not fitting for the house, because it clashes with all her decor.
So one night when you are sleeping, dreaming and completely unaware, your mother glides in to the living room, where you proudly displayed your prized possession, and grabs the flower you so patiently waited for. She looks it over again, says too bad, and throws out into the trash. You wake up in the morning, perplexed at first. You search high and low, you know you left it here last night. You find your mother and ask, "where is my flower?" Your mother responds, "Son, I had to throw it out, it didn't match the furniture and decor." At this point, you are sure she is joking, but you realize her facial expression is serious. "How could you do that? I spent 8 years watching and waiting, and you just threw it out because of the color?" It is just as rare whether it is blue orange or yellow. She shrugs her shoulder and says, "My house, my rules." She walks away, leaving you stunned.
Obviously, the kid in this made up story of mine (I have officially lost my mind, btw) is us, Kings fans. The flower represents the King's team. The mother, of course, is Vivek. The color of the flower is actually significant, because it represents the "style" the Vivek wants to see. He expected orange, and he got blue instead, even though it does not change the rarity of the flower. I know some folks don't understand the Vivek thing and stick by him and the changes, expecting to see better. We may or may not see better, but that wasn't the point. We spent almost a decade of waiting to be significant again, and here comes someone who takes away the only success we have seen in years because he doesn't like the damn color, with a pee poor explanation to boot.
Think of a rare flower, one that blooms every 8-10 years. You were a young kid when you got it from a family member. It looks like it might bloom several times between those 8-10 years, but it never reaches anything of significance, and it just ends up getting your hopes up. Now finally, after almost a decade of waiting, your flower begins to bloom and you're more excited than a little kid on Christmas Eve. You go around telling everyone, friends, family, co-workers, that your flower is finally about to bloom after 8-10 years of patiently waiting, watering it, and now you are going to make damn sure that everyone knows about it. There is one thing you notice, the color of the flower isn't what you expected. You were expecting orange, but you ended up with a blue color. No biggie, says you, just as beautiful to me and you were always one for surprises. However, your mother, who is in the fast food business, decides that this flower is not fitting for the house, because it clashes with all her decor.
So one night when you are sleeping, dreaming and completely unaware, your mother glides in to the living room, where you proudly displayed your prized possession, and grabs the flower you so patiently waited for. She looks it over again, says too bad, and throws out into the trash. You wake up in the morning, perplexed at first. You search high and low, you know you left it here last night. You find your mother and ask, "where is my flower?" Your mother responds, "Son, I had to throw it out, it didn't match the furniture and decor." At this point, you are sure she is joking, but you realize her facial expression is serious. "How could you do that? I spent 8 years watching and waiting, and you just threw it out because of the color?" It is just as rare whether it is blue orange or yellow. She shrugs her shoulder and says, "My house, my rules." She walks away, leaving you stunned.
Obviously, the kid in this made up story of mine (I have officially lost my mind, btw) is us, Kings fans. The flower represents the King's team. The mother, of course, is Vivek. The color of the flower is actually significant, because it represents the "style" the Vivek wants to see. He expected orange, and he got blue instead, even though it does not change the rarity of the flower. I know some folks don't understand the Vivek thing and stick by him and the changes, expecting to see better. We may or may not see better, but that wasn't the point. We spent almost a decade of waiting to be significant again, and here comes someone who takes away the only success we have seen in years because he doesn't like the damn color, with a pee poor explanation to boot.
I could buy into tanking more than this. If they are tanking give us a clue. Philly fans know they are tanking and the true fans are approaching their fandom that way ( draft prep, evaluation of young talent, watching fans with an eye on growth vs wins, etc...)
If the season is still about wins and losses then find a way to fix things. Maybe there is an under the table agreement with Karl to start next season. I can respect that. If I'm not mistaken, the Kings need to end with a top 10 pick to be keep the draft pick, right?
So if we are gonna lose we need to lose a lot, if we are going to win we need to win a lot.
If the season is still about wins and losses then find a way to fix things. Maybe there is an under the table agreement with Karl to start next season. I can respect that. If I'm not mistaken, the Kings need to end with a top 10 pick to be keep the draft pick, right?
So if we are gonna lose we need to lose a lot, if we are going to win we need to win a lot.
Not this kings fan. HECK NO!!!! For one reason only. DeMarcus Cousins. You know what firing the one coach who has been able to earn his respect and tanking this season tells him? IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON. Heck, if he's smart He demands a trade yesterday and I wouldn't blame him one bit. It is time to move to a team who will not hold you down in a perpetual state of SUCK. I really like the kid and I think he's wasting valuable playing years here.
If they hire Mullin I'm SO DONE. And I'm pretty sure that a majority of the fan base will be done. That would be the ultimate in ownership meddling. Myopic Ownership. Stupidity. I could call it a few more choice words but you get the point. They can not be so short sighted that they actually believe they have the answer to all their problems IN HOUSE ! That is absurd !
I have a lot to say but as the funkyone or someone else will fill in the blanks I leave with this note, I'll comment on a few things and ask a few questions to make sure I know what happened. I know that multiple page notes are difficult to respond to.
I would have sat down with PDA and Malone if I were Vivek but then that's the way I handle things and although I am a bit of a geek, I still have skills in talking with people. I suspect this is out of Vivek's comfort zone. It was a perfect storm of incompetence and I am not pointing fingers. It is unfortuate it was handled the way it was handled.
All of this can be solved with the hiring of Karl. I'm not even going to defend this as it seems so self evident.
I need to back away from this team for awhile. There are a few screws loose and I think the day may arrive when Vivek asks himself, "what have I done?"
Ok, what does this mean?
Andrew Miller @amiller 10h10 hours ago
@allbenjamens we all hear u. He is a great coach. Lots of data points and opinions to gather to make right decision. Thx.
Data points? Learn to speak English.
What more needs to be known to hire Karl? He has had 21 years in a row where his team has won more than half of the games. That's remarkable. Think about it. What more do you want to know? 21 years in a row. He's doing something right. If I am wrong by a year or two, at least get the point. The guy wins. Knowing what I know now, I would have put a healthy bet on the Kings making the playoffs if Karl had been the coach from day 1.
Does the FO use the word "passion" in describing us as a code word that means we'll put up with anything? Did they make the mistake in believing we are all noise and no brain?
Now let me go back to the Malone firing. I realize the horses have already left the barn but my understanding is that Malone had pretty much cut off communication with PDA, etc. from day 1 of the season and PDA and Mullin went to Vivek in some state of alarm. THIS WAS AT SOME POINT DURING THE FIRST 15 GAMES OF THE SEASON! They weren't satisfied with winning games that people thought were unwinnable. At some point in this PDA/Mullin/Vivek meeting, PDA got the permission to fire Malone. Why not look into the communication problem a little more closely? Perhaps PDA needed to be fired. It appears to me that an assumption was made that the GM couldn't be the problem. If I am correct, Vivek needs to learn a lot more about how to deal with human beings.Andrew Miller @amiller 10h10 hours ago
@allbenjamens we all hear u. He is a great coach. Lots of data points and opinions to gather to make right decision. Thx.
Data points? Learn to speak English.
What more needs to be known to hire Karl? He has had 21 years in a row where his team has won more than half of the games. That's remarkable. Think about it. What more do you want to know? 21 years in a row. He's doing something right. If I am wrong by a year or two, at least get the point. The guy wins. Knowing what I know now, I would have put a healthy bet on the Kings making the playoffs if Karl had been the coach from day 1.
Does the FO use the word "passion" in describing us as a code word that means we'll put up with anything? Did they make the mistake in believing we are all noise and no brain?
I would have sat down with PDA and Malone if I were Vivek but then that's the way I handle things and although I am a bit of a geek, I still have skills in talking with people. I suspect this is out of Vivek's comfort zone. It was a perfect storm of incompetence and I am not pointing fingers. It is unfortuate it was handled the way it was handled.
All of this can be solved with the hiring of Karl. I'm not even going to defend this as it seems so self evident.
I need to back away from this team for awhile. There are a few screws loose and I think the day may arrive when Vivek asks himself, "what have I done?"
Nobody will need to be there for me. I'm not going to be counted amongst those throwing their internet tantrums if that happens. But I doubt it will get there. It takes a special brand of pessimism to think that our owner will spend 52 more games burning the good will of the fanbase (which he obviously is doing, my own calm notwithstanding) once seeing just how much is burnt away already after five. Karl coaches this team sometime in January.
Quick translation:
data points = Karl's salary demands
opinions = how mad Kings fans will be if we don't hire Karl
Neither will I. If anything it would be me just getting to a point of apathy where I just don't have any interest anymore. Quite honestly I got there with the 49ers this year. The Harbaugh situation, Kaepernick's (and Harbaugh's) truculence with the media, but largely the off the field issues with Ray McDonald, Chris Culliver and Aldon Smith kind of left me wondering why I was spending 3 hours a week watching these guys and several hours beyond that reading up on them/watching NFL network etc. I'm not done as a 49ers fan by any stretch but this season has pushed me to a point of relative indifference. I hope I never get that way about the Kings.
data points = Karl's salary demands
opinions = how mad Kings fans will be if we don't hire Karl
Neither will I. If anything it would be me just getting to a point of apathy where I just don't have any interest anymore. Quite honestly I got there with the 49ers this year. The Harbaugh situation, Kaepernick's (and Harbaugh's) truculence with the media, but largely the off the field issues with Ray McDonald, Chris Culliver and Aldon Smith kind of left me wondering why I was spending 3 hours a week watching these guys and several hours beyond that reading up on them/watching NFL network etc. I'm not done as a 49ers fan by any stretch but this season has pushed me to a point of relative indifference. I hope I never get that way about the Kings.
