Malone fired
- Thread starter fursty13
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If the qualification is that the team is healthy (and by that I have to assume, we mean the main guys only missing a handful of games since no team is 100% healthy) then we're going have to compare Corbin's record against the team's 9-6 start under Malone before Cousins went out.
That's a .600 winning percentage which (even being generous and not counting Corbin's first game) would mean that the Kings would win 34 or more of their remaining games to finish with 45 wins or more.
Even if we go with Malone's record with all the games where Boogie was out and STILL stipulate that Corbin will only be judged if he has a relatively healthy roster then that means that the Kings must finish with 38 wins or more as the bare minimum of what's acceptable considering Cousins' viral meningitis AND the team's brutal early schedule.
So is it safe to say that anything less than 38 wins is an unmitigated disaster and anything less than 45 wins represents little to no improvement over Malone?
If not, why not?
Bear in mind, the move was made because the GM and ownership wanted immediate improvement. So Malone's record last year doesn't play into things and any notions of Corbin needing time to get acclimated are not valid either. The point was to get better now and in Ranadive's words, to make the playoffs.
That's a .600 winning percentage which (even being generous and not counting Corbin's first game) would mean that the Kings would win 34 or more of their remaining games to finish with 45 wins or more.
Even if we go with Malone's record with all the games where Boogie was out and STILL stipulate that Corbin will only be judged if he has a relatively healthy roster then that means that the Kings must finish with 38 wins or more as the bare minimum of what's acceptable considering Cousins' viral meningitis AND the team's brutal early schedule.
So is it safe to say that anything less than 38 wins is an unmitigated disaster and anything less than 45 wins represents little to no improvement over Malone?
If not, why not?
Bear in mind, the move was made because the GM and ownership wanted immediate improvement. So Malone's record last year doesn't play into things and any notions of Corbin needing time to get acclimated are not valid either. The point was to get better now and in Ranadive's words, to make the playoffs.
How would you feel if this situation got uglier than the 49ers and Jim Harbaugh???
For all we know, the firing saved the team from a situation like that.
If you guys really want to dwell on this, sure. Why not try to look ahead and look at our coaching options?
A lot of assumptions about what's happening.. a lot of hate for the Kings lately. I thought we were one of the best fans in basketball?
If you guys are really going to quit on this team, call out Vivek for everything possible, mock our GM for looking different, and criticize the advising from actual NBA players and coaches, then the team should've moved to Seattle. Who knew fans would give up on a team that the FO fought long and hard to keep in Sacramento? What an embarrassment on Tuesday when hardly anyone showed up to Peja's retirement...what an embarrassment for fans to quit on their favorite basketball team because of a coaching decision made by actual knowledgeable NBA guys and gals.
Come on, I thought we as Kings fans were better than this
For all we know, the firing saved the team from a situation like that.
If you guys really want to dwell on this, sure. Why not try to look ahead and look at our coaching options?
A lot of assumptions about what's happening.. a lot of hate for the Kings lately. I thought we were one of the best fans in basketball?
If you guys are really going to quit on this team, call out Vivek for everything possible, mock our GM for looking different, and criticize the advising from actual NBA players and coaches, then the team should've moved to Seattle. Who knew fans would give up on a team that the FO fought long and hard to keep in Sacramento? What an embarrassment on Tuesday when hardly anyone showed up to Peja's retirement...what an embarrassment for fans to quit on their favorite basketball team because of a coaching decision made by actual knowledgeable NBA guys and gals.
Come on, I thought we as Kings fans were better than this
You are mis-understanding the situation.
It is the FO which has given up on the team.
They have decided to risk the first chance to make the play-offs after 8 years of missing it (which is the second longest NBA drought) because they didn't like how we were winning games.
And what is worse, not only did they fire a coach which brought stability and leadership...they have no idea who they want to replace him.
The FO gave up on the team this year...and the fans have the right to call them out on it.
It is the FO which has given up on the team.
They have decided to risk the first chance to make the play-offs after 8 years of missing it (which is the second longest NBA drought) because they didn't like how we were winning games.
And what is worse, not only did they fire a coach which brought stability and leadership...they have no idea who they want to replace him.
The FO gave up on the team this year...and the fans have the right to call them out on it.
Once again... Does anyone think Ty Corbin is going to be here at the beginning of next season? No... So they are going to waste 60 games out of the season why? So they can have Ty Corbin take the fall for the season if they fail to implement the run and gun style properly? When a hall of fame coach is available and wants the job? Insanity.
The Fans aren't calling the FO out.. they're quitting on them. Maybe it's an overreaction, but I've read almost the comments to this 66page thread.
It's not really critique.. it's more of a, "Vivek is an owner who has no clue how basketball works. All his hired basketball people are "yes man". The Kings have no real basketball people surrounded by Vivek. Pete is an idiot who looks like a Gerbil" there's a lot of things that have nothing to do with critique.
I don't think the Kings had a realistic shot at the playoffs this year. Look at the West. It's stacked.
It's not really critique.. it's more of a, "Vivek is an owner who has no clue how basketball works. All his hired basketball people are "yes man". The Kings have no real basketball people surrounded by Vivek. Pete is an idiot who looks like a Gerbil" there's a lot of things that have nothing to do with critique.
I don't think the Kings had a realistic shot at the playoffs this year. Look at the West. It's stacked.
No one is quitting on the team. There's been some talk of doing that, but those people are still here, aren't they?
And the front office quit. Not the fans. The fans will be back. But if this falls apart, some will be lost. This is a public relations nightmare for the team. And if it doesn't work, Vivek has a real major bottom line issue that he wouldn't have had otherwise.
Who wants to give money to these guys? What they did is one of the dirtier things I've seen in the NBA in quite some time.
And the front office quit. Not the fans. The fans will be back. But if this falls apart, some will be lost. This is a public relations nightmare for the team. And if it doesn't work, Vivek has a real major bottom line issue that he wouldn't have had otherwise.
Who wants to give money to these guys? What they did is one of the dirtier things I've seen in the NBA in quite some time.
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That's just not true. The arguments are well thought out and go into many details.
It's the "have faith" "wait it out" people who generally don't have any position or thoughts going into what they are saying other than hope for the best. Doesn't work for me. I think there's actually some pretty great analysis going on, a lot of details on why this jazz philosophy doesn't fit the team, etc.
And then people come back with some mention of a particular game we lost. Which isn't the issue here.
It's the "have faith" "wait it out" people who generally don't have any position or thoughts going into what they are saying other than hope for the best. Doesn't work for me. I think there's actually some pretty great analysis going on, a lot of details on why this jazz philosophy doesn't fit the team, etc.
And then people come back with some mention of a particular game we lost. Which isn't the issue here.
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And my two bits, VF21 was more right about the Maloofs than the rest us. Also, now as always it's fun for some and always fair to criticize any and all and the owner. It is also very appropriate for me to differ. On the firing - always fair when things aren't going the way ownership wants and, in doing so, they are never going to check with me first.
Well, I wasn't talking to you, so there's that. 
Look again. I was talking to Gabriel
I like you man. Chill.
Look again. I was talking to GabrielI like you man. Chill.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic? If that is even a thing?
Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion no doubt. I just wished the FO would hurry up and hirer a coach so a lot of the doubt about direction from everyone will go away. I think it would bring back a lot of assurance to fans. Especially if they hirer Karl.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never used that term.
And honestly, why would I need to?
Vivek and D'Alessandro have confirmed in their own words that (1) the GM and Mullin flew to see Ranadive about replacing Malone when the team was in the middle of it's hot start (2) it didn't matter that the Kings were 9-6 and off to their best start in a decade despite a very tough schedule and low expectations coming into the season (3) the team had improved in several key categories this season (4) they have no idea who Malone's replacement will be and (5) the change wasn't about wins and losses but about playing an exciting style of basketball.
I didn't say those things. THEY did. There's no speculation involved. No need for personal attacks. They've flat out said that they pulled the plug on a coach who was getting results and had the trust of his players who played hard for him because they wanted a "jazz conductor" to be named later that will do a better job. And meanwhile that Tyrone Corbin will step in and lead them to the playoffs THIS year.
These are bizarre actions and outlandish claims by any measure. And it doesn't make me a good fan to try and pretend they aren't.
Edit: And as a side note, while I don't use the term, I do believe "Gerbil" was coined by Bricklayer as a swipe at D'Alessandro's work history. That essentially he was someone's pet accountant that ran the numbers who didn't ever play the game etc. It was an insult regarding his resume, not his physical appearance.
And honestly, why would I need to?
Vivek and D'Alessandro have confirmed in their own words that (1) the GM and Mullin flew to see Ranadive about replacing Malone when the team was in the middle of it's hot start (2) it didn't matter that the Kings were 9-6 and off to their best start in a decade despite a very tough schedule and low expectations coming into the season (3) the team had improved in several key categories this season (4) they have no idea who Malone's replacement will be and (5) the change wasn't about wins and losses but about playing an exciting style of basketball.
I didn't say those things. THEY did. There's no speculation involved. No need for personal attacks. They've flat out said that they pulled the plug on a coach who was getting results and had the trust of his players who played hard for him because they wanted a "jazz conductor" to be named later that will do a better job. And meanwhile that Tyrone Corbin will step in and lead them to the playoffs THIS year.
These are bizarre actions and outlandish claims by any measure. And it doesn't make me a good fan to try and pretend they aren't.
Edit: And as a side note, while I don't use the term, I do believe "Gerbil" was coined by Bricklayer as a swipe at D'Alessandro's work history. That essentially he was someone's pet accountant that ran the numbers who didn't ever play the game etc. It was an insult regarding his resume, not his physical appearance.
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That is the thing.
The only, Only, ONLY thing that makes ANY sort of sense is if Karl is coaching this team in the next four weeks.
That is it.
NOTHING ELSE makes a lick of sense from a basketball operations point of view where you are trying to win games. (It does, unfortunately, makes sense from a power struggle/power grab point of view)
I was very upset when they fired Malone and how they went about it. (Doing it right before Peja's retirement so fans wouldn't boo. Doing it right before Cousins gets back to prevent Malone to get back to winning games. Trying to hire his replacement in the off-season behind his back. Being upset at the style of basketball when we were actually WINNING games. Everything about it is shameful.)
With all that being said, it makes sense (from their point of view) if they bring in Karl, and if they do that, I can understand where they are coming from because Karl is a proven winner.
I believed them to be talking gibberish when they said they were going to roll with Corbin (a coach they didn't even want to bring in) for the rest of the season, because if that was the case, then just keep Malone for the rest of the season and fire him afterwards. So I fully expected Corbin to last at most a few weeks and then Karl would come in.
But what if that doesn't happen?
What if we really roll with Corbin for 2/3rds of the season?
That brings zero stability and won't help us in the future, so it makes this entire season a waste.
And it looks as if that is what we are actually prepared to do.
So yes...if that is the outcome I will call out the FO for giving up on this years team with zero long-term benefit to come out of it.
The only, Only, ONLY thing that makes ANY sort of sense is if Karl is coaching this team in the next four weeks.
That is it.
NOTHING ELSE makes a lick of sense from a basketball operations point of view where you are trying to win games. (It does, unfortunately, makes sense from a power struggle/power grab point of view)
I was very upset when they fired Malone and how they went about it. (Doing it right before Peja's retirement so fans wouldn't boo. Doing it right before Cousins gets back to prevent Malone to get back to winning games. Trying to hire his replacement in the off-season behind his back. Being upset at the style of basketball when we were actually WINNING games. Everything about it is shameful.)
With all that being said, it makes sense (from their point of view) if they bring in Karl, and if they do that, I can understand where they are coming from because Karl is a proven winner.
I believed them to be talking gibberish when they said they were going to roll with Corbin (a coach they didn't even want to bring in) for the rest of the season, because if that was the case, then just keep Malone for the rest of the season and fire him afterwards. So I fully expected Corbin to last at most a few weeks and then Karl would come in.
But what if that doesn't happen?
What if we really roll with Corbin for 2/3rds of the season?
That brings zero stability and won't help us in the future, so it makes this entire season a waste.
And it looks as if that is what we are actually prepared to do.
So yes...if that is the outcome I will call out the FO for giving up on this years team with zero long-term benefit to come out of it.
You know why these are completely different situations?
Harbaugh took the 49ers to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Superbowl.
I.E. He made them perrenial winners and after all of that winning things fell apart this year.
What if...half-way through Harbaugh's 1st season the FO had fired him to bring in a guy they liked better and the Niners went on to miss the play-offs three straight years.
Would the fans rather have 3 seasons of winning and high expectations or 3 more seasons of mediocrity?
I as a fan, would much prefer the winning, even if there is a collapse later on.
The Kings have not won in a long long time and in fact the only team which has been worse over the last 8 years are the Timberwolves.
Vivek talked about Malone bringing stability to the team, which he did, but then said it was time to move to Phase 2. The problem is that even though there was some stability there, the Kings still hadn't entirely figured out how to win.
You roll with Malone to continue to bring the stability and help the team learn how to win and then once you know you can win consistently, then if you have to make a change, you make the change. You don't do it mid-season with no successor lined up.
Someone convinced Vivek that the team was primed to win 60 games a year if only they brought someone in who could implement an up-tempo style when the reality is that the Kings still have a long way to go to learn how to be winners. Replacing Malone with poor Ty isn't going to help expediate the process.
Harbaugh took the 49ers to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Superbowl.
I.E. He made them perrenial winners and after all of that winning things fell apart this year.
What if...half-way through Harbaugh's 1st season the FO had fired him to bring in a guy they liked better and the Niners went on to miss the play-offs three straight years.
Would the fans rather have 3 seasons of winning and high expectations or 3 more seasons of mediocrity?
I as a fan, would much prefer the winning, even if there is a collapse later on.
The Kings have not won in a long long time and in fact the only team which has been worse over the last 8 years are the Timberwolves.
Vivek talked about Malone bringing stability to the team, which he did, but then said it was time to move to Phase 2. The problem is that even though there was some stability there, the Kings still hadn't entirely figured out how to win.
You roll with Malone to continue to bring the stability and help the team learn how to win and then once you know you can win consistently, then if you have to make a change, you make the change. You don't do it mid-season with no successor lined up.
Someone convinced Vivek that the team was primed to win 60 games a year if only they brought someone in who could implement an up-tempo style when the reality is that the Kings still have a long way to go to learn how to be winners. Replacing Malone with poor Ty isn't going to help expediate the process.
Is Malone like Harbaugh though? Is he just a notorious red-a** whose hard driving style alienates players, pisses off opposing coaches and wears thin with everyone in the front office? I don't know. But it sure seems like the players universally supported Malone. And I don't remember Trent Baalke coming out and saying he wants a different style or for Harbaugh to change his offensive or defensive scheme. So I'm not sure there's much of a parallel beyond a nearby team that also has internal friction.
Vivek hired Malone first. He made the commitment to a coach and THEN hired a GM who later told Vivek to fire that coach because his coaching style clashed with D'Alessandro's vision.
In your mind is Malone responsible for that dysfunction? Because I'd put it on Vivek hiring two people who couldn't work things out.
I saw a coach getting results from a mismatched roster. I saw improvements on defense and a big leap from McLemore. I saw an offense that was ragged at times but geared towards the strength of a team that lacked 3 point shooting and bench contributions.
I wasn't about to get a Mike Malone tatoo but he was making obvious gains. Why not letting him keep working and start fresh next offseason? This just seems like a poor decision with even worse timing to me and with the capper that there doesn't even appear to be a real plan in place to move forward. The only reason we know it was ugly behind the scenes is because Vivek and D'Alessandro have told us that. Unlike the 49ers I don't remember tweets, rumors and reports of clashes. Certainly not from the players.
It became an issue not because the team wasn't winning enough, but because PDA didn't like HOW they were winning.
For what it's worth I think this situation is much uglier and at the same time much more ridiculous/laughable than the 49ers situation. As Uncia03 points out, at least the 49ers rolled with Harbaugh and let him do what he could with the team before things got ugly. The Kings bailed on Malone right when it seemed the team was making improvement.
There are better coaches than Mike Malone. But the Kings don't have them. The Kings haven't even identified who those options are and we're less than a third into the season.
What I fear is seeing Corbin finish the year with the team winning 30 something games, (maybe just enough to lose that first rounder) and then have Mullin step in as coach and be a disaster. And THEN have to do another complete rebuild. My fear is not just that we let a good coach go, but that PDA is about to cost this team another few years of ineptitude before having to start from scratch again, likely with Cousins moving on out of frustration.
I'm a Kings fan. I've been on that ride and bought the T-shirt.
Vivek hired Malone first. He made the commitment to a coach and THEN hired a GM who later told Vivek to fire that coach because his coaching style clashed with D'Alessandro's vision.
In your mind is Malone responsible for that dysfunction? Because I'd put it on Vivek hiring two people who couldn't work things out.
I saw a coach getting results from a mismatched roster. I saw improvements on defense and a big leap from McLemore. I saw an offense that was ragged at times but geared towards the strength of a team that lacked 3 point shooting and bench contributions.
I wasn't about to get a Mike Malone tatoo but he was making obvious gains. Why not letting him keep working and start fresh next offseason? This just seems like a poor decision with even worse timing to me and with the capper that there doesn't even appear to be a real plan in place to move forward. The only reason we know it was ugly behind the scenes is because Vivek and D'Alessandro have told us that. Unlike the 49ers I don't remember tweets, rumors and reports of clashes. Certainly not from the players.
It became an issue not because the team wasn't winning enough, but because PDA didn't like HOW they were winning.
For what it's worth I think this situation is much uglier and at the same time much more ridiculous/laughable than the 49ers situation. As Uncia03 points out, at least the 49ers rolled with Harbaugh and let him do what he could with the team before things got ugly. The Kings bailed on Malone right when it seemed the team was making improvement.
There are better coaches than Mike Malone. But the Kings don't have them. The Kings haven't even identified who those options are and we're less than a third into the season.
What I fear is seeing Corbin finish the year with the team winning 30 something games, (maybe just enough to lose that first rounder) and then have Mullin step in as coach and be a disaster. And THEN have to do another complete rebuild. My fear is not just that we let a good coach go, but that PDA is about to cost this team another few years of ineptitude before having to start from scratch again, likely with Cousins moving on out of frustration.
I'm a Kings fan. I've been on that ride and bought the T-shirt.
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You know what I hope the players rally around Corbin and we make the playoffs just to see what excuse these ****ers have when they fire him.
I've been thinking didn't malone get hired before Mullin was brought in? if so I think Mullin is the real scumbag here and the one rueining everything. Vivek when he hired malone always talked about defense/toughness the minuete mullin got involved it turned into offense offense offense. Also hiring malone before a gm isn't bad considering his pedigree. We went wrong by hiring the wrong GM. If I hire a defensive coach first you let him be in the interview when you are looking for gms that way the gm/coach are on the same page. If Vivek had done that the gm would have been a defensive oriented one and would have got some hard nosed players and we wouldn't be in this situation. It all comes down to Mullin
I've been thinking didn't malone get hired before Mullin was brought in? if so I think Mullin is the real scumbag here and the one rueining everything. Vivek when he hired malone always talked about defense/toughness the minuete mullin got involved it turned into offense offense offense. Also hiring malone before a gm isn't bad considering his pedigree. We went wrong by hiring the wrong GM. If I hire a defensive coach first you let him be in the interview when you are looking for gms that way the gm/coach are on the same page. If Vivek had done that the gm would have been a defensive oriented one and would have got some hard nosed players and we wouldn't be in this situation. It all comes down to Mullin
I was thinking today, but it seems that a real loser in all this mess is PDA, fans were very much behind him after the early success this season. But his crazt press conference "its not about wins and losses" and obviously the firing itself seems to have put him back in the hot seat. I wonder if he ends up regretting the decisions of the last few days in the future!*
*hopefully not after we make the playoffs this season
*hopefully not after we make the playoffs this season