Kings sign Ramon Sessions

gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#91
#91
@ Dude:

I'm just being a wise arse... While I havent been completely wowed by PDA's moves, I'm patient enough to know that the jury is still out. The Rudy trade is looking good (not that I want us to overpay gay after this season), and he hasnt made any huge blunders (Landry signing aside)...

Also... Petrie was garbage in his final years here. We can all agree on that.

I'd give PDA a C+ at the moment....But that can easily become a B if our PG shake up works out.

Time will tell!
 
jcwkings

jcwkings

All-Star
#92
#92
Sessions is not a starter, he is very much a score first guard. He will work nice in the second unit and his dribble penetration along with Landry hopefully drawing some doubles down low will give Stauskas some nice looks with that second unit. I could also see situations where we go small and see something like Collison/Sessions/Stauskas/Gay/Cousins. That might not work all the time, but in the current NBA it surely works in stretches.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#93
#93
The likelyhood of an undrafted rookie starting from day 1 is .. not good, but man, if Moreland can just do the things we want him to do at the level he did them in the summer league he'd really balance this team out. Give him one of those 20 mpg starter roles, let JT play the majority of the minutes off the bench and be the bench center so our bench rebounding isn't so terrible. Nothing is more frustrating than watching recent Kings bench units get trounced on the boards because we have some combination of Hayes/Robinson/Landry/Acy/Patterson/Williams ... you can't win on the glass when any one of those players are forced into playing as your biggest man on the glass, and they've all done it for multiple seasons now.

Do us a solid, Moreland, and be great.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#94
#94
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
The likelyhood of an undrafted rookie starting from day 1 is .. not good, but man, if Moreland can just do the things we want him to do at the level he did them in the summer league he'd really balance this team out. Give him one of those 20 mpg starter roles, let JT play the majority of the minutes off the bench and be the bench center so our bench rebounding isn't so terrible. Nothing is more frustrating than watching recent Kings bench units get trounced on the boards because we have some combination of Hayes/Robinson/Landry/Acy/Patterson/Williams ... you can't win on the glass when any one of those players are forced into playing as your biggest man on the glass, and they've all done it for multiple seasons now.

Do us a solid, Moreland, and be great.
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My sentiments exactly. Moreland has a skillset that the roster has been dying for. I think he will be able to fill his role as a help defender at the rim i just dont know if he can do it this year. Id love for us to throw him out there with Cousins though. The odds are that it wont happen, but if Moreland can do this we may not need another big trade.

Back to the topic, Sessions is a very good bench guard. Prior to this trade the only veteran guard that we had was the one that hasnt played a single game with the team yet. The Sessions signing makes good common sense.
 
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#95
#95
I don't see any downside with Sessions. This is a signing of the "solid" variety, one that will especially help if there are injuries at the guard position. If you have an injury to Collison that lasts for any length of time you don't want McCallum at this stage of his career.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#96
#96
It's clear that the FO is keeping the young prospects waiting in the wings which is fine. The previous regime had a habit of handing the keys over to guys way to fast. I think highly of Ray to me he plays the game the right way but having him pay his dues is probably best for both parties same goes for Moreland. I also wouldn't surprised to see another veteran guard signed like a T-Will.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#97
#97
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
The likelyhood of an undrafted rookie starting from day 1 is .. not good, but man, if Moreland can just do the things we want him to do at the level he did them in the summer league he'd really balance this team out. Give him one of those 20 mpg starter roles, let JT play the majority of the minutes off the bench and be the bench center so our bench rebounding isn't so terrible. Nothing is more frustrating than watching recent Kings bench units get trounced on the boards because we have some combination of Hayes/Robinson/Landry/Acy/Patterson/Williams ... you can't win on the glass when any one of those players are forced into playing as your biggest man on the glass, and they've all done it for multiple seasons now.

Do us a solid, Moreland, and be great.
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Well, with Reggie Evans, bench rebounding will probably not be too bad an issue. It's literally one of the three things he can do.
 
miltonap

miltonap

Starter
#99
#99
I agree with pretty much all of the above. I really don't see any downside with this move, especially considering the price we got him at. Sessions can ball. I approve.

Now we just gotta round out the rest of the roster, mainly fixing the glut of power forwards that don't really fulfill huge needs
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#100
#100
Kingster said:
I don't see any downside with Sessions. This is a signing of the "solid" variety, one that will especially help if there are injuries at the guard position. If you have an injury to Collison that lasts for any length of time you don't want McCallum at this stage of his career.
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There is only upside in this deal, we got him for dirt cheap and he will eventually be our starting PG before the season is over. It's a lot like the Reggie Evans move we made we got a guy who everyone thought was going to be a back up but the fact he helps you win and can fit in nicely propelled him into a starting role.

My one random Kings prediction (might make a thread on it) for this upcoming season is that Sessions will take over the starting role.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#101
#101
Tetsujin said:
Well, with Reggie Evans, bench rebounding will probably not be too bad an issue. It's literally one of the three things he can do.
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i'd still worry about it if our bench bigs are, say, Landry and Evans. Evans is a great rebounder. He carves up a lot of space down there, but he is groundbound and so is Landry. I wouldn't feel very comfortable with that bench pairing.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#102
#102
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
i'd still worry about it if our bench bigs are, say, Landry and Evans. Evans is a great rebounder. He carves up a lot of space down there, but he is groundbound and so is Landry. I wouldn't feel very comfortable with that bench pairing.
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If we do nothing the most logical pairings, of the established bigs, would be Cousins/Evans and Thompson/Landry (which of course worked so wonderfully 4 years ago). Moreland is a wildcard.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#104
#104
What's with people saying that he may start for us? If he is starting for us we won't be winning over 35 games and that's being generous probably...you pay Collison 16 mil over three years, you best believe he will be starting even if he is meant to be a backup PG. Sessions will give us some nice offense off the bench, he isn't much of a shooter really but he can take it to the hoop and is quick. I'm still wondering where Ray fits into all of this because I don't want to see any small ball out there for long periods.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#105
#105
kingsboi said:
What's with people saying that he may start for us? If he is starting for us we won't be winning over 35 games and that's being generous probably...you pay Collison 16 mil over three years, you best believe he will be starting even if he is meant to be a backup PG. Sessions will give us some nice offense off the bench, he isn't much of a shooter really but he can take it to the hoop and is quick. I'm still wondering where Ray fits into all of this because I don't want to see any small ball out there for long periods.
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What's with people saying Collison is sure fire starter? If he is starting for us we won't be winning over 35 games and that's being generous. I said Collison will start and I'm saying he will lose his starting job to Sessions. Just cause you made a mistake of overpaying Collison does not mean you have to start him, cause we give Landry 6 mil per season does that mean he should play more than JT and Reggie? I don't think so. Jeremy Lin was getting 8+million a season and they replaced him with some unknown guy making under 1 mil in Beverly what you get paid has no bearing on playing time.

While Sessions is a score first PG I have seen him in the past switch his game up to penetrate (which he probably does better than anyone on our roster) and dish fairly well. Sessions is not Garry Neal or someone like that where he's not skilled enough to slightly switch his game up.
 
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T

The Hammer

All-Star
#106
#106
Big Cuz 15 said:
this is how cleveland did it when they had lebron the 1st go around. surround him w/ patchwork vets. if ownership is looking to spend, go right ahead. as long as its cheap vets on short contracts.
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So much bs in this post I'm gonna need a backhoe.

I guess people need something to complain about. Even if it's not there.

There is so little in common between this team, this OWNERSHIP, and Lebron's Cavs... it boggles the mind how you could even draw the analogy. Oh but excuse me... if we make a solid signing at a good bargain... oh then we're not "spending enough". Get real. This is a good value contract, with minimal commitment, filling a need we have now. This is one of the signings that is almost impossible to complain about... yet through the magic of the internet, you do. Wtg.

Complain about the Landry contract (for now), complain about letting Tyreke walk, complain about something else. Don't complain about Casspi, Hollins, and Sessions contracts. That just reveals your preference... for complaining.

Reminds me of the Gotye song: "You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness... like resignation to the end, always the end."

Like if you feel me y'all.
 
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Albatros

Albatros

Starter
#107
#107
This is exactly what you want going into camp. Means collison can't just coast his way, also means Ray will bust his butt trying to get that backup spot or maybe more minutes at SG who knows. A lot of these pieces are interchangeable.

Takes pressure off Nik to an extent too.

Ben is the wildcard really. Pre season is huge for him.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#108
#108
andremiller07 said:
What's with people saying Collison is sure fire starter? If he is starting for us we won't be winning over 35 games and that's being generous. I said Collison will start and I'm saying he will lose his starting job to Sessions. Just cause you made a mistake of overpaying Collison does not mean you have to start him, cause we give Landry 6 mil per season does that mean he should play more than JT and Reggie? I don't think so. Jeremy Lin was getting 8+million a season and they replaced him with some unknown guy making under 1 mil in Beverly what you get paid has no bearing on playing time.

While Sessions is a score first PG I have seen him in the past switch his game up to penetrate (which he probably does better than anyone on our roster) and dish fairly well. Sessions is not Garry Neal or someone like that where he's not skilled enough to slightly switch his game up.
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Sessions has never remotely proven he can start for a winning team. His resume is filled with nothing but cellar dwellers. Much is made of Collison's shaky starting status on his teams, but they were good teams, playoff teams, and if he was shaky as a starter its because they needed a lot. Sessions has almost never been in that situation. He's a shaky platoon type guy on bad teams most of the time. At least with Collison you can sort of say, well, you can win 40 with him as your starter if the rest of the team is right -- other teams have. There is no such proof with Sessions. His lone starting stint with a goodish team was a 26 game stint for the Lakers after a trade deadline trade.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#109
#109
Bricklayer said:
Sessions has never remotely proven he can start for a winning team. His resume is filled with nothing but cellar dwellers. Much is made of Collison's shaky starting status on his teams, but they were good teams, playoff teams, and if he was shaky as a starter its because they needed a lot. Sessions has almost never been in that situation. He's a shaky platoon type guy on bad teams most of the time. At least with Collison you can sort of say, well, you can win 40 with him as your starter if the rest of the team is right -- other teams have. There is no such proof with Sessions. His lone starting stint with a goodish team was a 26 game stint for the Lakers after a trade deadline trade.
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I'm really looking forward to the PG battle during the pre-season/regular season between the 3 guys, to me the spot is up for grabs regardless of who has what contract or there previous history, right now it means nothing it's who's the best fit/player and it will be a entertaining storyline to follow.

I don't really think you can use Sessions, resume against him he was a guy clawing his way into the L not his fault he's been on garbage teams, that to me is not really fair.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#110
#110
andremiller07 said:
I'm really looking forward to the PG battle during the pre-season/regular season between the 3 guys, to me the spot is up for grabs regardless of who has what contract or there previous history, right now it means nothing it's who's the best fit/player and it will be a entertaining storyline to follow.

I don't really think you can use Sessions, resume against him he was a guy clawing his way into the L not his fault he's been on garbage teams, that to me is not really fair.
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To you the spot is up for grabs, to the rest of the world it's Collison. I'd bet money on it.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#111
#111
He's been in the league 7 years now. That's longer than most guys' careers. However he got started, it can hardly be used as a blanket excuse now.

Its not an argument that Ramon Sessions makes team lose. But it is an argument that in 7 years in the league there's almost no evidence at all he's a starting PG on a good team.

he barely played his rookie yr in 07-08 (played in 17 games at end of season)
was a parttime platoon starter (39 starts) on a 34-48 Milwaulkee team in 08-09
exclusively a bench player (1 start) on a 15-67 Minnesota team in 09-10
back to parttime platoon starting (38 starts) for the 19-63 win Cavs in 10-11
was a pure bencher (1 start) for the 21-45 Cavs in 11-12, got traded midseason, and had his one moment in the sun starting 19 of 23 for the 41-25 Lakers
then off to the 21-61 Bobcats as a pure bencher (0 starts) in 12-13
then last year was again a bencher (started 7 of 55gms) for the 43-39 Cats, got traded midseason, and was a platoon starter (started 12 of 28) for the 15-67 Bucks

that's the record presented.7 years in the league, and basically 1 month starting for a winning team during a strike year. That's not a record you turn you team over to.

comparatively Collison:
09-10: started half the games his rookie season for the 37-45 Hornets
10-11: started 79 of 79 times for the 37-45 Pacers (who made the playoffs because its the East)
11-12: started 56 of 60 times for the 42-24 Pacers (again obviously playoff bound)
12-13: started over half the games (47 of 81) for the 41-41 Mavs
13-14: started almost half the games (35 of 80) while CP3 was out for the 57-25 Clippers (playoffs obviously)

its a much different type of record. You absolutely KNOW you can win with Collison as your PG, at the very least get into the .500 range. Because its been done. you know nothing of the sort with Sessions. And you know nothing at all about McCallum.

I thought it was a solid little signing, but not for starting purposes.
 
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J

jdbraver

Guest
#112
#112
Bottom line there are plenty of minutes for both. I'm sure they will both get a chance to play with cuz and rudy, which lets face it are our starters.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#113
#113
Collison was signed with the idea of starting per conversation of both parties involved. He will start the year as the starter. Sessions is brought in as a combo guard to play both spots....off the bench....in situational lineups. I'm not so sure that he's taking Ray's backup spot as he's going to be a matchup guy at SG when Sac goes smaller.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#114
#114
dude12 said:
Collison was signed with the idea of starting per conversation of both parties involved. He will start the year as the starter. Sessions is brought in as a combo guard to play both spots....off the bench....in situational lineups. I'm not so sure that he's taking Ray's backup spot as he's going to be a match-up guy at SG when Sac goes smaller.
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Why would we be going small and putting Sessions @ the 2 when we have two young talented SG's we are trying to develop unless they are trading one of them? If that's the reason we bough Sessions in that's stupid since we are not in a win now situation and we should be doing everything we can to develop Mclemore/Nik by giving them game time. Sessions should either be used as the primary back up or starter depending on his/Collisons play @PG. All the SG mins should go to the two youngsters imo, giving Sessions mins at the two makes no sense to me.
 
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#115
#115
andremiller07 said:
There is only upside in this deal, we got him for dirt cheap and he will eventually be our starting PG before the season is over. It's a lot like the Reggie Evans move we made we got a guy who everyone thought was going to be a back up but the fact he helps you win and can fit in nicely propelled him into a starting role.

My one random Kings prediction (might make a thread on it) for this upcoming season is that Sessions will take over the starting role.
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I'm keeping that open as a possibility. I doubt Sessions is coming into camp looking to be a backup.
 
R

Rug King

Bench
#116
#116
I like the signing. Without Sessions, who do we have that are good ball handlers besides Ray or Collison? If one of them is out for any reason there really isn't anybody to step in. Nik's okay but he's not what you want running the offense. Now we have 3 decent players that can handle the point and I think it will help tremendously.

Good move Pete.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#117
#117
Kingster said:
I doubt Sessions is coming into camp looking to be a backup.
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As long as he's not delusional about it. He's a career backup and a late-summer signing whose contract is about 1/4 the size of the contract in front of him on the depth chart. It's quite clear he's intended as a backup. I'm sure he'll do his best to take the starting job, but he's going to have to accept that backup role when (not if) he doesn't move into the starting role.
 
Chubbs

Chubbs

Starter
#119
#119
There seems to be confusion. Collision was signed to be the starter. Sessions was signed to be the backup at both guard spots. This isn't a signing about creating competition for the guy you told would be your starter. Sessions is a career backup, and a decent one. But that's all he's ever been and that's what he's been signed to be.

I would imagine nights where Nik and Ben struggle sessions and collison will finish games together. And there will certainly be a lot of those nights. It's not a matter of going small, it's getting nba level talent on the court to try to win games. Until proven otherwise, sessions gives us a better chance than Ben or Nik.

Yes, this is a win now move. The days of playing Ben whether he does anything or not seems to be over. And let's face it, was there a worse starter in the nba last season? Not even close to average production. We know sessions can provide at least that.
 
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