IT = Rumor of 3/24 offer from Pistons
- Thread starter John Galt
- Start date
- Status
It's really as simple as this - they see IT as at least as important to the franchise's success as Cousins or Gay, if not more so. With that as your basic assumption, 8 million/year is of course a no-brainer. I of course think that assumption is completely wrong. The part that really irked me is how they kept talking about IT as the face of the franchise, the only likeable and marketable guy ... and kept painting him as a victim of this organization that has never fully accepted him as their lord and saviour. Clearly none of them have ever listened to an official Kings telecast of games.
My favorite part of the whole podcast was early on when they said the chances of IT returning to the Kings are close to zero. As an IT hater, that would seriously make my day.
My favorite part of the whole podcast was early on when they said the chances of IT returning to the Kings are close to zero. As an IT hater, that would seriously make my day.
I saw it....I also saw IT not passing to Ben most of the time.....and I understand that Ben struggled but if you freeze out the youngster, not sure IT was helping the kid progress. I thought that Ben played more relaxed and/or confident when he was with Ray a the end of the year. My hope is that there is more flow and touches for Ben and Nik and that they both play well....if that happens, maybe we can start thinking about 35-41 wins.
lmfao. thank you for standing up for all those who believe "makin moves; just to make em = productive"
i'll continue to bash the FO for stupid moves. no need to explain them to you as you are satisfied with their work.
at least with the previous regime we knew the motive behind the moves; they were broke.
i'll continue to bash the FO for stupid moves. no need to explain them to you as you are satisfied with their work.
at least with the previous regime we knew the motive behind the moves; they were broke.
I'm surprised how many willingly are suggesting to match an affordable contract IT might sign, if he does, without adding the caveat of "does IT want to come back as a backup?".
When a player starts to emotionally detach himself from a city and a team, talks to other teams, starts picturing himself playing in another city, etc, then you bring him back, you're playing with fire. IT is a very headstrong kid. Would you really want him here if he might not want to be here as a backup? Maybe, maybe not, but no one is even discussing this angle.
To an extent it's about losing an asset, but there's the human element here which can effect chemistry and the locker room.
When a player starts to emotionally detach himself from a city and a team, talks to other teams, starts picturing himself playing in another city, etc, then you bring him back, you're playing with fire. IT is a very headstrong kid. Would you really want him here if he might not want to be here as a backup? Maybe, maybe not, but no one is even discussing this angle.
To an extent it's about losing an asset, but there's the human element here which can effect chemistry and the locker room.
Too bad IT cant be sold on being a perennial 6th man of the year contender, because off of the bench he would be. Off the bench, IT is THE MAN. The stats he put up behind Vasquez early last season were bonkers.
Darren is a definite downgrade in talent. IT is a beast... Unfortunately he suffers from a case of Iversonitis.. It remains to be seen if Darren is an upgrade in fit...Hopefully it works out for the best. He had a good season last year on The Clips.
Darren is a definite downgrade in talent. IT is a beast... Unfortunately he suffers from a case of Iversonitis.. It remains to be seen if Darren is an upgrade in fit...Hopefully it works out for the best. He had a good season last year on The Clips.
Thats all well and good but he is a professional and will accept the role if the team starts winning. Bobby Jackson saw himself as a starter and at time he alo thought that he was better than Bibby but it still doesn't detract that he was one of the best 6th man in the league and guy who we had on the floor in the 4th quarter! With time he accepted the role realising that its not who starts but who finoshes the game that is important!
No one wants to be a 6th man on a crap team that struggles to win 30 games when it is clear that you are a better player than the guy keeping you out of the starting line up!
What do people think that IT will just quit now that he got paid? That chip on his shoulder will not allow him to do so! He will continue to try to prove people wrong!
No one wants to be a 6th man on a crap team that struggles to win 30 games when it is clear that you are a better player than the guy keeping you out of the starting line up!
What do people think that IT will just quit now that he got paid? That chip on his shoulder will not allow him to do so! He will continue to try to prove people wrong!
I'm not sure how IT talking to other teams qualifies as detaching himself from the city. He has always supported the city such as when he was the only player to attend the city council meeting on the arena. It's called free-agency. You are allowed to talk to other teams. Tyreke even talked to multiple teams when he was a RFA.
IT is not remotely at that point yet. You have to remember BJax had been scorned and almost out of the league -- that resets you a bit. And BJax joined a playoff team with something going before he showed up. if IT ever were to go on the BJax journey, it would not be for us. It would be for some playoff team he ended up on in the future. If he signs with the Heat, it might work there if the Big Three all return. In any case, that kind of distraction just isn't going to work for us. IT is more talented than Collison. He knows it. If he returns he will try to crush him in practice and take his spot back. Just who he is. Just not what we need. We need some team guys here, and we've got plenty of holes to fill.
Despite Gerbil's inability to get anything done on draft day or early on here, I can't help but feel he is desperately trying to do something big in the background. you can't say you are going to change the team and not do so. You can't convince Rudy to return, then show him no tangible improvements. You can't ask Cuz to lose for you again and receive media abuse/doubts fro another year. He knows this as well as I do.
Despite Gerbil's inability to get anything done on draft day or early on here, I can't help but feel he is desperately trying to do something big in the background. you can't say you are going to change the team and not do so. You can't convince Rudy to return, then show him no tangible improvements. You can't ask Cuz to lose for you again and receive media abuse/doubts fro another year. He knows this as well as I do.
Or how about suggesting we can play both IT and Collision at the same time like they did in LA with Chris Paul? Anyone who watches Chris Paul and Isaiah Thomas play and can come away with the conclusion that they play comparable styles on offense and defense (in order to accommodate Collision who they "knocked" as a bad defender and score first guy) is either blind or stupid.
James Ham and Jonathan Santiago, Cowbell Kingdom guys. I agree that the marketability aspect of IT shouldn't be a reason to keep him, but also agree with them that for a guy that has showed up to Arena issues, helped around the community and just being an overall honorable representative of a franchise that has been the face of mediocrity for years(Maloofs, Cousin's maturity issues, losing culture, terrible player development, list goes on). I think he deserves better treatment than just being dumped to the side of the road like common trash(which is essentially how he has been treated by this franchise). This also affects the perception of players towards our franchise, if they treat IT like that, how will they treat me when my contract is up? An NBA team is just like any other workplace, a company should take care of employees that have bent over backwards for them, and no one can argue that IT hasn't worked harder than any other King to put on a uniform over the last 3 years(thats including Cousins, Tyreke, everyone).
The other arguement I agree with is the talent bleed aspect, especially with us being a small market team. This of course depends on the price we would have to pay to match the contract. If you think you are paying too much for a guy that doesn't fit, than yes you try and work a sign and trade and get what you can. However if the price is reasonable, you have to match purely on the basis that you aren't getting any free agents on the level of an IT to come to Sacramento basically ever, but especially as the bad team we currently are.
The other arguement I agree with is the talent bleed aspect, especially with us being a small market team. This of course depends on the price we would have to pay to match the contract. If you think you are paying too much for a guy that doesn't fit, than yes you try and work a sign and trade and get what you can. However if the price is reasonable, you have to match purely on the basis that you aren't getting any free agents on the level of an IT to come to Sacramento basically ever, but especially as the bad team we currently are.
We're not dumping him, we made him an offer. We're not going to overpay. And we've made our contingency plan to insure he doesn't have us by the balls into signing a bad deal.
Either the money he wants isn't there, the teams that want him at his $$$ figure (Detroit?) can't sign without a S&T or everybody is waiting for the big fish to settle (which clearly means IT is plan B or plan C for the other teams), it doesn't matter.
He's either holding out for more than the market will bear or something is being worked out behind the scenes.
Either the money he wants isn't there, the teams that want him at his $$$ figure (Detroit?) can't sign without a S&T or everybody is waiting for the big fish to settle (which clearly means IT is plan B or plan C for the other teams), it doesn't matter.
He's either holding out for more than the market will bear or something is being worked out behind the scenes.
Isaiah was the last pick in the draft and we cleared the board for him to basically do whatever he wanted this season. We made the qualifying offer and he's free to seek out the biggest contract he can get in free agency. If he indicated some willingness to stick around as a bench spark plug things might have been different, but we're not handcuffed to IT as the starter simply because that's what he sees his role to be. We went out and covered our bases. I don't see how we did Isaiah wrong here at all from a player's perspective.
The rest is the same argument we've already heard two dozen times -- small market, can't afford to lose players for nothing, no one else is coming. We're not building a collection of assets here, we're trying to build a winning team. If we're ever going to get there we have to graduate beyond that mentality of "this guy could be traded for something so we'll keep him even though he doesn't fit" and adopt a new mentality of "we need a player who can do X, where do we get that player?" That's the kind of thinking which led to the Collison signing. He may not be an All Star but he fits a need and he's affordable and that's what we need to push us one step forward at this time.
The rest is the same argument we've already heard two dozen times -- small market, can't afford to lose players for nothing, no one else is coming. We're not building a collection of assets here, we're trying to build a winning team. If we're ever going to get there we have to graduate beyond that mentality of "this guy could be traded for something so we'll keep him even though he doesn't fit" and adopt a new mentality of "we need a player who can do X, where do we get that player?" That's the kind of thinking which led to the Collison signing. He may not be an All Star but he fits a need and he's affordable and that's what we need to push us one step forward at this time.
When you roll out the red carpet for Rudy Gay, make it public that you want him to stay and then when asked about IT its a "Ehhh, we'll talk", thats HUGE disrespect. If he isn't part of your plans for the future that is fine, but he should be treated with more dignity for how hard he has worked and performed for your mediocre franchise.
If this was the case Rudy Gay wouldn't be on our roster. The FO clearly didn't see Tyreke in our future and could've let him walk for nothing, fortunately they at least go Vasquez out of it and were able to turn that plus other scraps for Gay(whose value was at an all time low). That is the only way we get high level talents to come to Sacramento, IT is a high level talent that will produce for you or at the very least will help you get a better fitting piece down the road.
Well theres no question IT is trying to get his money, as he should as a pro(but especially given the fact that he was making NBA minimum wage for 3 years and way outperforming his salary). I don't think Detroit can even offer hin $8 million anymore without a sign and trade, the Lakers will wait for Carmelo and the Heat need to figure out the big 3 situation before trying to sign IT. Detroit seems the most likely place he goes, the Lakers could offer him bigger contract if they fail to sign Melo also.
Thats just being all warm and fuzzy! Fact is that NBA is a star oriented league and as nice a player as he is, he does not hold a candle to Rudy Gay. He diesn't share that opinion and his fans don't share that opinion but it is a fact! They damn well should roll out the red carpet for Rudy Gay type talent. At the same time in their professional career, someone dropped a max deal on Rudy Gay and no one will be doing that with Isaiah. That right there tells you how the rest of the league see the talent differential!
Gay is a very good player but you can't argue that he isn't EXTREMELY overpaid, especially for this coming season. He isn't a max player and thats why the Grizzlies and Raptors were quick to get rid of him. At most I would feel comfortable paying Gay $12-$13 million, that puts him in tier 2 level players. In that case Thomas falls into the tier 3 category ($7-$10 million). Thomas isn't a guy you roll the red carpet for(and Rudy probably isn't either unless your a small market like us). Its a PR move more than anything, you treat players with respect and dignity(especially the ones that have worked their tails off for you), now you've got a disgruntled former employee who tells other potential employees to stay away from Sacramento because they don't treat you right over there.
- Status