Kings active in trade talks?
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First of all, I'm not sure why you're factoring in an $8 mil a year contract for Thomas. I'm sure the FO would let him walk if the price is that steep. I think you of all people would be along that line of thinking.
Secondly, you're right. If we make no trades and sign Thomas to $8 mil a year, it would save us $8 mil in payroll compared to if we did the trade. However, when you take into account the taxes, it would be $87 mil if we didn't do the trade and $110 mil if we did do the trade. That's an extra $23 mil! That's a lot of mula. As you can see, the multipliers really hit you hard the more you go over the luxury tax level. That's why I don't see this as a realistic trade scenario.
If we don't pick up Acy's option next season, we will only have $4.2 mil to sign Thomas before we hit the luxury tax level. However, we will only have 11 players under contract. We must have at least 12, and if we want to be on the safe side in case injuries hit, it would probably be wise to pick up another player or two. You can see how this situation does not look good for a team that wants to stay out of the luxury tax. Now maybe the FO is completely fine with dipping over that tax line, but as a small market team, I'm going to assume they would prefer not to go over it unless they have a legitimate shot at a championship.
There has to be a trade coming. Either to free up cap space next offseason to sign Thomas, or to move Thomas all together. Gay opting out would solve a lot of these luxury tax complications, but as a GM, you can't base a plan solely off if a player will pick up his player option or not. That's very risky.
Sorry Brick. I just can't see this happening. That's not to say that I'm not a fan of the players we would be getting versus the players we would be sending out. It just comes down to the nitty-gritty of their financial situation. However, if you are correct about their cap hits coming to around 8 mil then this argument is void. I am under the impression that the $8 mil a year hit only is applied to the team that signed them and doesn't get carried over when traded. I definitely could be wrong though.
Secondly, you're right. If we make no trades and sign Thomas to $8 mil a year, it would save us $8 mil in payroll compared to if we did the trade. However, when you take into account the taxes, it would be $87 mil if we didn't do the trade and $110 mil if we did do the trade. That's an extra $23 mil! That's a lot of mula. As you can see, the multipliers really hit you hard the more you go over the luxury tax level. That's why I don't see this as a realistic trade scenario.
If we don't pick up Acy's option next season, we will only have $4.2 mil to sign Thomas before we hit the luxury tax level. However, we will only have 11 players under contract. We must have at least 12, and if we want to be on the safe side in case injuries hit, it would probably be wise to pick up another player or two. You can see how this situation does not look good for a team that wants to stay out of the luxury tax. Now maybe the FO is completely fine with dipping over that tax line, but as a small market team, I'm going to assume they would prefer not to go over it unless they have a legitimate shot at a championship.
There has to be a trade coming. Either to free up cap space next offseason to sign Thomas, or to move Thomas all together. Gay opting out would solve a lot of these luxury tax complications, but as a GM, you can't base a plan solely off if a player will pick up his player option or not. That's very risky.
Sorry Brick. I just can't see this happening. That's not to say that I'm not a fan of the players we would be getting versus the players we would be sending out. It just comes down to the nitty-gritty of their financial situation. However, if you are correct about their cap hits coming to around 8 mil then this argument is void. I am under the impression that the $8 mil a year hit only is applied to the team that signed them and doesn't get carried over when traded. I definitely could be wrong though.
Actually no. If IT is an $8mil a year contract, you gotta match that rather than let a player of that caliber walk.
We are going to have to pay SOMEBODY to be our PG. You want to pass on IT and go sign Lowry? Sure thing. Fork over your $8mil. You want to trade IT for Lin? Sure thing. Here, that's $8mil in capspace. You want to go spend a high lottery pick on a a rookie PG? Think you're taking a huge risk to entrust a franchise ready to win now on a rookie PG, but hey, if you want to that's maybe $4-$5mil, and then you can spend the extra $10mil we need to go get that shotblocker.
Bottom line, any way you slice it you are going to start paying real $$ for a PG next year, and you had better spend them on a shotblocker too. So if we retain IT and he costs $8? Well that's just what we have to do. If we swap him for Lin and Asik? Well those guys fill the roles and get paid, about right. What you do want/need to do though is shed as many unnecessary contracts for unimportant roles as you can as your salary structure gets more focused. making a move that takes those Thornton and Landry $$ and refocuses on the places we actually need to spend is a big win in my book. Also, not sure where you are getting your $$ figure from, but we are not quite as bad off as your numbers seem to be showing you:
Assuming Boogie's deal starts him off at about $14mil per, we'd be at about $62-63mil before IT's new deal and paying our pick.
Make my little trade and we'd actually be better off: we'd be at about $65-$66mil with the PG and shotblocker already on the roster and paid for.
We are going to have to pay SOMEBODY to be our PG. You want to pass on IT and go sign Lowry? Sure thing. Fork over your $8mil. You want to trade IT for Lin? Sure thing. Here, that's $8mil in capspace. You want to go spend a high lottery pick on a a rookie PG? Think you're taking a huge risk to entrust a franchise ready to win now on a rookie PG, but hey, if you want to that's maybe $4-$5mil, and then you can spend the extra $10mil we need to go get that shotblocker.
Bottom line, any way you slice it you are going to start paying real $$ for a PG next year, and you had better spend them on a shotblocker too. So if we retain IT and he costs $8? Well that's just what we have to do. If we swap him for Lin and Asik? Well those guys fill the roles and get paid, about right. What you do want/need to do though is shed as many unnecessary contracts for unimportant roles as you can as your salary structure gets more focused. making a move that takes those Thornton and Landry $$ and refocuses on the places we actually need to spend is a big win in my book. Also, not sure where you are getting your $$ figure from, but we are not quite as bad off as your numbers seem to be showing you:
Assuming Boogie's deal starts him off at about $14mil per, we'd be at about $62-63mil before IT's new deal and paying our pick.
Make my little trade and we'd actually be better off: we'd be at about $65-$66mil with the PG and shotblocker already on the roster and paid for.
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Let's trade IT for a 1st round pick in this year's draft... maybe with the Grizz if they finish around the top 15 mark? They need a backup pg and more scoring. I honestly don't know how much we'll be able to get from IT. There's plenty of scorers available for trade, but we don't need those. The kings need a defensive PF or a starting pg that fits our role.
I take back my own numbers sry, I misread and thought they were counting Boogie's qualifying offer, they were not. So we'd be about $67-$68 before IT and our pick, which is not doable while staying under the tax limit.
Even more reason to take my approach -- we'd have just about enough money to pay our pick and fill out the roster with scrubs.
Even more reason to take my approach -- we'd have just about enough money to pay our pick and fill out the roster with scrubs.
I take back my own numbers sry, I misread and thought they were counting Boogie's qualifying offer, they were not. So we'd be about $67-$68 before IT and our pick, which is not doable while staying under the tax limit.
Even more reason to take my approach -- we'd have just about enough money to pay our pick and fill out the roster with scrubs.
Even more reason to take my approach -- we'd have just about enough money to pay our pick and fill out the roster with scrubs.
So you're saying just because Thomas has value, we should sign him no matter how high his price tag is? There are teams that let their restricted free agents go all the time. In our case, we let Evans go last offseason. Now I'm not saying that was a good idea on our part, but there must be some reason teams don't match all of their RFA of value. As a small market team, you can't afford to overpay your roleplayers. In my eyes, Thomas is a roleplayer. He would be an excellent sixth man/change of pace guard off the bench, but those type of players don't deserve $8 mil a year. You make it sound like you either bleed the talent and your back at square one or you resign him to keep the talent level of the team high. Cap space has value too and you need to be wise in how you manage it rather than handing out $8 mil a year contracts to sixth men.
I would be more than happy to sign Lowry for $8 mil a year. However, we don't have cap space next season to sign him so this point is moot.
That is a possible trade that could work out for both sides. You would have to be sure Lin would fit well in our system and you would have to take a chance on resigning him since he will be a FA in 2015. However, I don't like the notion of signing players with the intent to trade them. It's risky and there's a good chance you don't get equal value back or you are stuck with that player (who you don't want) on a large contract. Obviously, sign and trades are different as there is no risk if you will be able to trade him or not, but I'm sold on the fact that we'll get our PG of the future in a sign and trade for Thomas.
By win now, do you mean competing to make the playoffs or competing for a championship? Personally, I would prefer to compete for championships. Wouldn't you? Do you think our team has any shot at winning a championship next year? I don't. Do we have a good chance at making the playoffs next year? I think so. The point I'm trying to make is by the time our team is ready to compete for a long run in the playoffs our rookie PG will have had a few seasons to establish himself in this league. This is why I don't see really any issue with drafting a PG in this year's draft.
You're right, but I would prefer not to just pay ANY PG real money. I would rather be smarter with our money and use it on a starting PG we see in our future plans whether it is making a trade before the deadline to bring that PG aboard or through the draft next year.
I would be more than happy to sign Lowry for $8 mil a year. However, we don't have cap space next season to sign him so this point is moot.
That is a possible trade that could work out for both sides. You would have to be sure Lin would fit well in our system and you would have to take a chance on resigning him since he will be a FA in 2015. However, I don't like the notion of signing players with the intent to trade them. It's risky and there's a good chance you don't get equal value back or you are stuck with that player (who you don't want) on a large contract. Obviously, sign and trades are different as there is no risk if you will be able to trade him or not, but I'm sold on the fact that we'll get our PG of the future in a sign and trade for Thomas.
By win now, do you mean competing to make the playoffs or competing for a championship? Personally, I would prefer to compete for championships. Wouldn't you? Do you think our team has any shot at winning a championship next year? I don't. Do we have a good chance at making the playoffs next year? I think so. The point I'm trying to make is by the time our team is ready to compete for a long run in the playoffs our rookie PG will have had a few seasons to establish himself in this league. This is why I don't see really any issue with drafting a PG in this year's draft.
You're right, but I would prefer not to just pay ANY PG real money. I would rather be smarter with our money and use it on a starting PG we see in our future plans whether it is making a trade before the deadline to bring that PG aboard or through the draft next year.
You can't simply look at how good a player is versus what would be available at the #15 pick. How much Thomas will make and how much the 15th pick of the draft will make factor into the decision immensely. I think it's safe to say that Thomas is going to get a contract between $7-8 mil a year for 3/4 years. The 15th pick in the draft last year was Giannis Antetokounmpo. He is making $1.79 mil, $1.87 mil, $1.95 mil, and $2.99 mil in his first 4 years with a $4.19 mil qualifying offer in his 5th year. That's consistently $5-6 mil saved every season. That money can then be used to go after another solid roleplayer or it can open up a little more cap space to resign Gay, sign a defensive anchor, etc. So even if the player we draft at #15 doesn't end up being as good as Thomas, it still gives us the advantage of having more cap space to go after players we need.
Not to mention, players on rookie deals outplay their contracts all the time. The return on investment can be very high with these type of players, but the probability of Thomas out playing a contract in the upwards of $7-8 mil is not very high.
On a side note, the #15 pick has been very successful in recent drafts...
2013: Giannis Antetokounmpo
2012: Maurice Harkless
2011: Kawhi Leonard
2010: Larry Sanders
2009: Austin Daye
2008: Robin Lopez
2007: Rodney Stuckey
I would be more than happy to have most of these players on rookie deals in a Kings uniform.
Not to mention, players on rookie deals outplay their contracts all the time. The return on investment can be very high with these type of players, but the probability of Thomas out playing a contract in the upwards of $7-8 mil is not very high.
On a side note, the #15 pick has been very successful in recent drafts...
2013: Giannis Antetokounmpo
2012: Maurice Harkless
2011: Kawhi Leonard
2010: Larry Sanders
2009: Austin Daye
2008: Robin Lopez
2007: Rodney Stuckey
I would be more than happy to have most of these players on rookie deals in a Kings uniform.
I take back my own numbers sry, I misread and thought they were counting Boogie's qualifying offer, they were not. So we'd be about $67-$68 before IT and our pick, which is not doable while staying under the tax limit.
Even more reason to take my approach -- we'd have just about enough money to pay our pick and fill out the roster with scrubs.
Even more reason to take my approach -- we'd have just about enough money to pay our pick and fill out the roster with scrubs.
In the 2015 offseason, we would have $32 mil in cap space with Lin, Asik, and Garcia all expiring.
Just sayin'.
Square pegs for square pegs, both sides might get pieces that fit better/they are familiar with. We gain defense they gain guys who play their style. We gain size, and have a huge frontcourt that still has multiple small/stretch 4 options. We advance as Asia's team/an international team. They get the best player, we get the best defender. We shorten our obligations to all end after next year.
https://twitter.com/BeauBishop/status/428958542968520704
Uh oh looks like Kyrie wants out of Cleveland according to this "source". Could they possibly look at a trade involving Thomas for Irving?
Just did this in the trade machine...I don't know why Cleveland does it, but man would I love this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=od3lbhj
Only downside to the trade is our bench scoring is depleted.
Irving/Fredette
Gay/Mclemore
Williams/Outlaw
Varejao/Acy
Cousins/Thompson
Uh oh looks like Kyrie wants out of Cleveland according to this "source". Could they possibly look at a trade involving Thomas for Irving?
Just did this in the trade machine...I don't know why Cleveland does it, but man would I love this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=od3lbhj
Only downside to the trade is our bench scoring is depleted.
Irving/Fredette
Gay/Mclemore
Williams/Outlaw
Varejao/Acy
Cousins/Thompson
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