Jimmer to Cavs for pick?
- Thread starter VF21
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That's why I said send him down to the D-League. All the NBA teams scout the D-League. Maybe he can impress a team. As far as taking minutes away from anyone, well, if he can play well enough to take away minutes, then I don't have a problem with that. As long as he earns the minutes. Unlike you and some others, I don't think a player necessarily stops improving at age 24 or 25. There's no doubt that his handle needed improvement when he arrived, and I think it did improve a little last season. He'll never be Tyreke Evans with the ball, but he may become good enough to be a back up PG at some point. Now whether the Kings want to sit around and wait is a different story. If they can acquire and asset for him, then definitely do it. All I'm saying is don't give him away.
I think we both know Jimmers pluses and minuses. That's not what I was talking about. I'm simply trying to get as much for him as I can. So I think being patient and waiting, may render more in return than just giving him away for basicly nothing right now. If someone offers a good deal, then make the deal. We as fans see Jimmer in every game, and our expectations are probably higher than they should be if we logically deal with his true abilities. That may not be so with another team, and they may be willing to give up more than we think. Certainly doesn't hurt to try. Other than taking up a roster spot, he's not hurting the team. Now if the Kings need to free up a roster spot to do a trade, then that's another story.
I guess the point would be in 1 yrs time we give him away completely, as in no return. With Vasquez/IT/Thornton/McLemore ahead of him there is no realistic opportunity for him to significantly up his value in season. Even if he went down to the D-league and averaged 25, does anybody think a team is going to give us a 1st rnder for a D-League All Star on an ending contract? So if we've got a nibble from somebody it would behoove us to make the most of it. The further removed from his college legend he gets, the fewer chances somebody will give you an asset based on those echoes. Strike while the iron is, well, still barely warm.
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Have to agree with the posts saying that you get whatever you can for Jimmer and really, there is no value here beyond shooting. He's not a PG. I don't think I can recall an NBA player who when in the game, the opposing team would just send as much pressure at him when he is handling the ball. He's a spot up 3 point shooter who can knock it down and then can penetrate and dish a little bit out of the other teammates kick out pass. But he's a liability as he's not quick enough for the small PGs and not big enough for most SGs.....remember how he handled the ball in the previous summer league and the troubles he had.....compare to Ray McCallums summer league and ability to at least hold his own if not be successful most games.
Heck if all you are going to get is a second might as well keep him until the deadline and see what he can do. Maybe he improves under the new regime or fits in better with the new players. I do think he improved a lot last year and at times was a positive on the floor. At the very least he is an expiring contract and should have value at the deadline.
I think he can shoot the ball much better than he has shown in games up to this point. Have him give the ball up and go stand in the corner and wait for an open three opportunity.
KB
I think he can shoot the ball much better than he has shown in games up to this point. Have him give the ball up and go stand in the corner and wait for an open three opportunity.
KB
I have not given up on Jimmer. I have always thought that he could be a Vinnie Johnson type of player. They are of similar size and have similar skills. Both were prolific scorers in college. The microwave was in his 6th season before his worth was really known. He was 26 at the time. He ended up being a very valuable spark plug to come off the bench. I am not saying that Jimmer will be like this - but he could be.
K
I seen a semi interesting deal on Bleacher report which was Jimmer + Patterson for Brandon Rush and Jerermy Evans while I know Patterson + Jimmer is a lot to give up for a guy coming off a knee injury but if he comes back ok Rush is a starting SF for us and he's a 1 year deal so it would not be a bad deal at all. At worst we cleared cap space at best we got a excellent SF/SG who can hit the 3 and defend. Jeremy Evans can block shots as well if he gets time but I doubt he would since he sucks and is basically something like Travis Outlaw but probably better.
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I'd rather have Patterson and Jimmer. Rush is older, more of a big two and I don't know that he'd be a better starter than Luc. Evans is an athletic tweener who can barely get off the bench. He has no value besides garbage time dunks.
Plus we'd actually be committing to more more money next year since Evans would still be on the books.
Plus we'd actually be committing to more more money next year since Evans would still be on the books.
Personally, I'd rather just give Jimmer away, than make some deal for other players that probably won't fit. We've spent, at least the last two years, drafting, or trading for players that are either partially over the hill (Salmons) or borderline NBA players, with little regard to how the pieces fit together. I'm fairly sure that Jimmer was a Maloof pick. But we could have had Leonard among'st others. We could have had Drummond instead of Robinson. I'll be the first to admit that I had reservations about Drummond, but there was no denying his talent, and he did fit a need, as did Leonard.
Whats done is done, but its time we started filling roster spots with players that compliment each other, instead of getting rid of a player like Jimmer, and replacing him with another player that contributes little, simply because that's all we could get in return. I'd rather just cut my losses and let him walk. I want players that can contribute now, or show the potential to contribute in the future. What I don't want is someone riding the end of the bench just because there's room for his butt there. Its time that we start drafting the best player available again, regardless of position, and regardless of projection. If you do the proper homework, your decision won't be affected by media hype, which I believe was the case with Thomas Robinson.
The idea of trading away a player that actually has value to the team (Patterson), in order to sweeten the pot to move Jimmer is the kind of move that has to stop. If Jimmer is that large of a mistake, then swallow hard, trade him for a pick, or keep him for the season, and then let him walk. Personally I think he has some value. As an ender if nothing else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, and there's always a team out there that thinks they can get something out of a player that we didn't. And to be honest, based on the last few years, its hard to argue against that idea. There's been little or no player development. We've thrown players out on the floor with little direction. There appears to be no offensive or defensive plan, as in actually running plays. And then we wonder why most of our homegrown players all look inept, while average players we obtain in a trade all look like they know what their doing. The organization has become a failure factory.
The finest race car in the world is worthless if you don't have a good driver behind the wheel. Actually, your not sure you have a great race car until you put a good driver behind the wheel to test it. Any team is the same! Until you have a good coach behind the wheel, your not sure exactly how good or bad your team is. No, I'm not saying that just maybe there's a championship team hiding under the covers. But it is possible that the team could be better than 28 wins if managed properly. Trying to acquire a superstar, or just a so called star is a no brainer. You don't need a visit from god to figure that one out. But the players you surround those stars with are equally important. And that's an area that's been lacking at best, or ignored completely at worse. Its time for this team to start looking like what its called, a team.
Whats done is done, but its time we started filling roster spots with players that compliment each other, instead of getting rid of a player like Jimmer, and replacing him with another player that contributes little, simply because that's all we could get in return. I'd rather just cut my losses and let him walk. I want players that can contribute now, or show the potential to contribute in the future. What I don't want is someone riding the end of the bench just because there's room for his butt there. Its time that we start drafting the best player available again, regardless of position, and regardless of projection. If you do the proper homework, your decision won't be affected by media hype, which I believe was the case with Thomas Robinson.
The idea of trading away a player that actually has value to the team (Patterson), in order to sweeten the pot to move Jimmer is the kind of move that has to stop. If Jimmer is that large of a mistake, then swallow hard, trade him for a pick, or keep him for the season, and then let him walk. Personally I think he has some value. As an ender if nothing else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, and there's always a team out there that thinks they can get something out of a player that we didn't. And to be honest, based on the last few years, its hard to argue against that idea. There's been little or no player development. We've thrown players out on the floor with little direction. There appears to be no offensive or defensive plan, as in actually running plays. And then we wonder why most of our homegrown players all look inept, while average players we obtain in a trade all look like they know what their doing. The organization has become a failure factory.
The finest race car in the world is worthless if you don't have a good driver behind the wheel. Actually, your not sure you have a great race car until you put a good driver behind the wheel to test it. Any team is the same! Until you have a good coach behind the wheel, your not sure exactly how good or bad your team is. No, I'm not saying that just maybe there's a championship team hiding under the covers. But it is possible that the team could be better than 28 wins if managed properly. Trying to acquire a superstar, or just a so called star is a no brainer. You don't need a visit from god to figure that one out. But the players you surround those stars with are equally important. And that's an area that's been lacking at best, or ignored completely at worse. Its time for this team to start looking like what its called, a team.
There is ZERO guarantees that both rookies crack the rotation and Jimmer must know this is a make or break year for him with that team option looming. However the pg position plays out that leaves MT almost unchallenged for the starting 2. As for Jimmer all he needs to do is beat out the two rooks and he has a chance to get respectable mins behind MT.
Oh, is that all?
If MacLemore doesn't get any better than he was during Summer League, he's already ahead of Fredette in the rotation. Barring some extended injury, Fredette will not play ahead of him. Fredette may outplay McCallum, but that still makes him the fifth guard in what should, reasonably, be a four-guard rotation.
If MacLemore doesn't get any better than he was during Summer League, he's already ahead of Fredette in the rotation. Barring some extended injury, Fredette will not play ahead of him. Fredette may outplay McCallum, but that still makes him the fifth guard in what should, reasonably, be a four-guard rotation.
Ugh. That backcourt rotation defensively is just . . . I am growing more and more skeptical of this front office the more I look at the team. Our frontcourt is terrible defensively, which means we need strong backcourt defense to protect it, and we have Vasquez and Thornton projected to start? Egad. No matter how good Mbah is at individual defense, he can't pick up the slack from four other positions. He is not a Tyson Chandler type.
Zero games played and I miss Tyreke already.
The worst of it is that we may not be bad enough to get one of the top prospects from the draft next year. We may be just good enough to end up drafting 10-12 with the way basement teams are going to be tanking.
Zero games played and I miss Tyreke already.
The worst of it is that we may not be bad enough to get one of the top prospects from the draft next year. We may be just good enough to end up drafting 10-12 with the way basement teams are going to be tanking.
What did you see from McLemore in summer league that makes you think he is currently better than Jimmer? Long-term, certainly. The athleticism is definitely there. The shooting stroke may be there (he really didn't take many long threes in college, so we don't know how he handles NBA range just yet). But the kid is raw as sashimi right now.
Jimmer does not handle the ball well under pressure, but I have not yet seen him blow a wide-open fast break by dribbling the ball off his shin. McLemore's handles are abysmal, which means he has to play next to a distributor like Vasquez. You can play Jimmer next to Vasquez or IT or Salmons.
Now, as far as player development goes, McLemore is more important to the team, and I would agree that he is the #2 shooting guard on the team for that reason (and maybe should be #1). He really needs to be the future 2-guard for the team because Thornton is too one-sided and Jimmer is too limited by his size. But you are going to see some ugly, ugly basketball out of that kid for a while until he learns to not get in his own way.
Jimmer does not handle the ball well under pressure, but I have not yet seen him blow a wide-open fast break by dribbling the ball off his shin. McLemore's handles are abysmal, which means he has to play next to a distributor like Vasquez. You can play Jimmer next to Vasquez or IT or Salmons.
Now, as far as player development goes, McLemore is more important to the team, and I would agree that he is the #2 shooting guard on the team for that reason (and maybe should be #1). He really needs to be the future 2-guard for the team because Thornton is too one-sided and Jimmer is too limited by his size. But you are going to see some ugly, ugly basketball out of that kid for a while until he learns to not get in his own way.
He was picked by the new regime, not left over as a questionable pick of the old regime. From what's gone on both on and off the court since the purchase of the team by Vivek, it seems pretty clear they're going to be cutting ties with almost everyone from the past who isn't a clear part of the future of the franchise.
Oh, I don't doubt that Jimmer is out of the rotation right now. I am just saying that if I was ranking our guards by abilities I have seen right now, Jimmer would come behind IT and Vasquez (although barely, on the latter), and behind Thornton at 2-guard. He might be behind McCallum at the 1 as well, just because that kid seems to have some defensive chops. He is a better player than McLemore presently, though that will likely change at some point.
I would like to see Jimmer traded both for his own sake and to clear some playtime for McCallum who reminds me of Eric Bledsoe.
I would like to see Jimmer traded both for his own sake and to clear some playtime for McCallum who reminds me of Eric Bledsoe.
It really doesn't matter in many ways if he is better than Jimmer. He is a #7 draft pick, and the first pick of the new regime. There is just no way he's going to be end of benched behind a guy like Jimmer, who hasn't established himself in the league, and represents the last regime's mistakes. In fact I'm a little worried if we truly are tanking that we might even force him out there ahead of Thornton, but Malone may be too serious for that.
In any case, Vasquez is also the new regime's guy. In order for people like me not to turn the heat up so high they spontaneously combust, they 100% cannot afford for the guy they got back for Reke to fail. He will get big minutes. IT already beat out Jimmer handily 2years running. He'll be the backup. And so then you have Thornton, who might just be the 2nd best player on the team now that we threw the former 2nd best player on the team away, and who knows Malone from the past, and McLemore, who is as noted the first draft pick of the new regime, and the guy they were all hopping around like Maloofs over on draft night. Jimmer has no opportunity given those lineups barring a significant injury.
In any case, Vasquez is also the new regime's guy. In order for people like me not to turn the heat up so high they spontaneously combust, they 100% cannot afford for the guy they got back for Reke to fail. He will get big minutes. IT already beat out Jimmer handily 2years running. He'll be the backup. And so then you have Thornton, who might just be the 2nd best player on the team now that we threw the former 2nd best player on the team away, and who knows Malone from the past, and McLemore, who is as noted the first draft pick of the new regime, and the guy they were all hopping around like Maloofs over on draft night. Jimmer has no opportunity given those lineups barring a significant injury.
Bingo! You just summed it up in a nutshell... I think just about every player that's left over from the old regime not named Cousins, is going to be under the microscope to see how they fit into whatever system they install. It may take them a while to move those they don't want, but in time, they will be gone. I'm sure they have some preconceived ideas going in, but I also believe they'll give everyone a fair shot, and that includes Fredette. I think some fans pass judgement on a player his first year, and then have blinders on from that point on if they don't like that player. I'm not about to say that Fredette blew my socks off last year, but I'am able to recognize that he did improve from his first year. His ballhandling, while still not great, was better, and he brought the ball up the court many times under pressure without turning the ball over. It is possible to acknowledge improvement, while still being critical of a players flaws.
I actually do think Jimmer made significant improvements from his 1st to 2nd year in the league. But he likely suffered more than anybody else on the team with Smart's coaching. He'd get 15 minutes 1 game, sit out the next 2 games, get 5 minutes in the 4th quarter the next game, sit out the next game, play 20 minutes the game after. He and Robinson never had any chance to develop a rhythm because they never knew if they were getting minutes or not the next game. That is more detrimental to a player's development than anything. Even more frustrating, we stifiled giving those guys minutes for the likes of Aaron Brooks, Toney Douglas, James Johnson, Travis Outlaw, and Chuck Hayes. In other words, we denied minutes to 2 top 10 picks for end of the bench rotational players
No, but he was the best we had, and he was he only one with the potential to be that good. He was a classic guy that a good defensive coach could turn into a strong defender. Nobody can make Kyle Korver defend. But a good coach can make Tyreke Evans defend.
The two rooks may or may not down the road. Mac actually did not look impressive on that end in summer league, but McCallum could be good. But rookies aren't going to have much impact on that end as rookies, and McCallum may or may not ever be able to get enough minutes to do more than be a Toney Douglas or Luther Head deep bench defender. Which brings us back to a hopeless defensive backcourt, and worse yet, a defensive backcourt that would put tremendous pressure on even a good defensive frontcourt, let alone one without a shotblocker to clean up all the drives in the lane.
The two rooks may or may not down the road. Mac actually did not look impressive on that end in summer league, but McCallum could be good. But rookies aren't going to have much impact on that end as rookies, and McCallum may or may not ever be able to get enough minutes to do more than be a Toney Douglas or Luther Head deep bench defender. Which brings us back to a hopeless defensive backcourt, and worse yet, a defensive backcourt that would put tremendous pressure on even a good defensive frontcourt, let alone one without a shotblocker to clean up all the drives in the lane.